Converting to CMYK destroys colors

I usually do web graphics in RGB. I was asked to do a bottle label for print. I built it in my usual RGB color space, then tried converting it to CMYK at the end. This ruins the colors. Obviously I don't know enough about working for print. Should I have built my file originally in CMYK? How can I do the CMYK conversion and preserve my colors, which the client loves? I can't believe these colors are not possible to print.

Interesting that black type in rgb does not translate to black type in cmyk.
The RGB black (in RGB there is true black) is separated according to the GCR settings of the target profile; those determine how much colour may be printed on any one spot (Total Area Coverage or TAC) and how to combine the four colours at the various luminances.
Can you shed some light on this?
As I understand it the printer recommends printing 5C – black from the process colors and 4 Pantone Colors.
To select the Pantone Colors I would highly recommend referring to the actual printed Pantone Color Books – if you don’t have those maybe you can borrow them, because they aren’t exactly cheap (as can be expected when a book has to be printed with more than 1000 colors).
In the section you posted I see no need for gray and the soft inner bevel in the blue type could probably be done with mixing the dark and light blue.
But when it comes to mixing Spot Colors digital proofing systems are usually not perfectly reliable.
But Photoshop falls short here in my opinion – one pretty much has to do the trapping manually (for example where the light and dark blue touch one would expand the light blue to avoid white lines if registration varies in printing) and the white text on the blue background would be pixel content and not type/vector, so it may be a little soft edged in print.

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Problems with CMYK/LAB colors

I'm independent and I send many print jobs to different print shops. I recently discovered to my horror that some color critical jobs have gone to press (to the same shop) with mismatched PMS colors. At first I blamed the print shop but they complained the CMYK values did not match. When I opened the two brochures in question, one had (for example) Pantone 288 C, color type spot, Color mode CMYK, 100/67/0/23 (dimmed because the colors came from an imported illustrator eps logo). The second (bad) brochure had the same color and color type, but in the mix it had Color Mode: Lab, L 8.039, a 8, b -50 - greyed out because again, the color came from the SAME eps file.
My next step was to remove the logo file from the bad Indesign doc. Then I doublechecked the color - success, the color now says color mode: Pantone solid coated, 288 C (which is from the built-in indesign swatch book). Then I brought BACK IN the logo file from the brochure that printed correctly. The color reverts back to LAB again!
When I import this same logo into a blank document, the colors are fine (CMYK with proper values).
I'd seen in other forums suggestions to check or uncheck "Use Standard Lab Values for Spots" in the Ink Manager, however both documents have this unchecked. (Adobe seems to encourage checking LAB but I've never done this, I'm afraid to start now as it will probably give my print shops fits.) And both have "convert spots to process" checked, which I always thought was the cure-all: shouldn't PMS 288 (CMYK) always be PMS 288 (CMYK), as long as both are converted to process? Why would one being a LAB and the other NOT being a LAB make them different? 288 should be 288....? (but I guess not....)
The good news is, the Zevrix extension "InPreFlight" will warn me if run on each document, so I don't have to drive myself crazy opening old files and doubleclicking every color. But I'm wondering what the heck is happening.
CLUE: I believe this all stemmed from a "brilliant" idea I had to shorten the list of color types to choose from by going into Indesign>Presets>Swatch Libraries and removing libraries I'd thought I wasn't using - I left all my Pantones, but I must have deleted an important one, because it was after I'd done this that I had noticed the Lab colors rearing their ugly heads. However it didn't occur to me that LAB (CMYK) would be different from regular CMYK since they have the same name. When I replaced this folder with one from another mac, viola, the problems stopped. However it doesn't stop the old, previously created files from continuing to open wrong and be printed wrong, if I don't catch them.
Any insight anyone could provide would prove most helpful. It would be nice to get a night's sleep for a change.....thanks!
FYI I'm using Indesign CS3 5.0.4 (recently updated) with Color Settings CMYK: U.S. Sheetfed Coated v2 and color management policies-preserve numbers (ignore linked profiles).

>one had (for example) Pantone 288 C, color type spot,
Mike, you are implying in your post that your jobs are being output as CMYK, but your colors are set as spots. If that's the case your printer is converting the spot colors to process CMYK, which would cause the problem you are describingPantone Solid colors are converted to CMYK via color management when Use Lab is checked. The resulting output values would depend on the document's destination CMYK profile.
If your job is indeed CMYK you should stop using the Pantone Solid library and use the Solid to Process library instead, which always output as Pantones CMYK builds.
Use Lab is useful when a job is to be output as Spot color because you will likely get a more accurate preview of the color and a better proof to a composite printer. Many Pantone colors are out of the CMYK gamut. Lab can also be useful if you are sending a job to CMYK and you want to color manage the conversion of a solid color to CMYK, rather than using Pantones built formulas which are device dependent.

Edit/Edit Colors/ Convert to CMYK via applecript

Cant seem to figure this one out.
In Adobe CC, I am trying to convert every path item of the current document to CMYK using applecript or javascript.
The equivalent to Edit/Edit Colors/ Convert to CMYK.
Currently I am using an action but I try to stay away from actions as much as possible.
Does anyone know how this could be done via applecript, javascript or whatever else?

Right, I tried this method already but it does not show the dialog box in Adobe Illustrator CC v18. only previous versions.
Our group all use different versions. I may just switch to an installer script thats adds the action to Illustrators "Default_Actions.aia" file since its text based.
Heres what I'm using now which is working but I don't like all the hoops it has to jump.
The action simply writes a new doc to a dummy file on a server & the when script doesn't see then dummy file, it writes, loads the action & deletes the dummy file.
Then on the next run, the action will write the dummy file for the script to see & skip the loading of a duplicate action.
And if I change the action, I simply change the name of the action file & dummy file.
property ACTSET : "Set 1"
property actbname : "Action 1" --- writes teh PTDF file, then run rest of action
property PTDF : POSIX file "/Volumes/artserver/1_ASI/spotcheck.ai" as string
property the_file : PTDF & ACTSET & ".aia" as string
property the_file2 : POSIX path of PTDF & ACTSET & ".aia" as string
property spotcheck : {}
tell application "Adobe Illustrator"
set spotcheck to ""
do javascript "app.doScript ('" & actbname & "', '" & ACTSET & "');"
try
tell application "Finder" to set spotcheck to file PTDF as string
end try
if spotcheck = {} then
my addaction() --- saves action text to temporary items for the load
do javascript "app.loadAction (new File('" & the_file2 & "'));"
do javascript "app.doScript ('" & actbname & "', '" & ACTSET & "');"
tell application "Finder" to move file the_file to trash
end if
tell application "Finder" to move file PTDF to trash
end tell

Converting RGB to CMYK - Huge color shift. Any tips on getting some decent color back?

I just downloaded a St. Patricks day background from iStockPhoto. Nice vibrant green. We all know when converting to CMYK from RGB, there is a color shift but this is pretty dang dramatic. Any basic tips on getting some of that vibrant color back after converting?

You can boost greens by printing another pass of yellow with the same halftoning on top of your cyan areas. Black and yellow naturalyl also can give the appearance of certain dark green colors, but this may only work on vbery fine rasters. Printing an extra color is always an option, but also keep in mind that a lot depends on what paper is used and how it interacts with the inks. Also many magazines use gloss coating on their front page, which hugely influences perception of "depth" in the colors. And don't forget all the perceptional tricks - such mags often use colored pages because the green looks more saturated when surrounded by a dark red, brown or ocre...
Mylenium

Do duotones have to be converted to CMYK prior to PDF for publication?

Hi, we have a series of duotone images for publication, created in Photoshop CS4.
The duotones are saved as EPS files, imported into InDesign and exported as PDF files.
We thought that would have been fine, but sight-unseen the printer is telling us he doesn't even know what duotones are (!) and that those duotones will have to be converted to CMYK and then exported again as PDF files.
Does this sound right? Do we have to do convert every image, or else it won't print?
It seemed to us that the duotone "mode" was designed for publication of b&w images, to increase tonality in the print. We figured that if they were saved as duotones and exported to PDF, that the PDF file would be sufficient. So, what then is the point of converting duotones if the printer is then going to turn around and say, nope, can't do it that way?
I checked instructional tutorials and Adobe "help," but can't find the answer.
Help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Kelli & Dave
(*cross-posted at the PhotoShop forum.)

If you make use of spot colors n your duotones and your printer only accepts CMYK files some action may be needed somewhere.
Easiest approach: convert to CMYK using Acrobat Pro (Convert colors feature) or specialized Acrobat plug-ins/tools like pdfToolbox 4 from callas software.
Olaf
callas software

Converting CYMK to spot color?

Alright, i just read the 'how to get help quickly', and will attempt to not let my panic show through too much:
I designed graphics to go into my college's literary magazine. I used only two colors: brown and green (8dc63f and 603913). However, last week he informed us (the magazine production people) that RGB wasn't acceptable, since he was going to print in something called 'spot color'. Never heard of it before, but after reasearching, I think I have a vague grasp on it: basically instead of CYMK printing process, he's just going to have two plates, one with each color, and stamp them on the pages (like screen printing). That's fine, but I don't understand how it relates to my files. So we sent the psd files to the printer's "photoshop specialist" and then yesterday I was informed that there was no way to seperate the colors into pantone plates, and that either the book was now going to be blank (thankfully the cover is going to be printed seperately in CYMK so that's fine), or we could use clipart (!!thanks for discrediting a semester of my work), or I could learn to use illustrator and redesign the whole book by monday.
I panic, obviuosly, because after downloading the trial version of illustrator I realized that it's actually nothing like working in photoshop (where's my tablet sensitivity? this is NOTHING like 'illustrating'), and at the end of last night's terror, this is all i could produce: http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2993/illustrator.jpg
Now for reference, the image I originally made in photoshop looks like this (when placed on a brown background to simulate paper): http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7015/photoshopf.jpg
I am very confused, because I don't understand why the printing company can seperate the illustrator file into two color plates, but not the photoshop file. Both use the same colors (Pantone 375 and Pantone 161 C, I've learned). I have no clue how to save ANYTHING in 'spot format', the only difference between photoshop and illustrator is that I can click on the pantone swatch in illustrator.
Obviously I'm ignorant and confused, and I appologise for that, since it only makes this situation worse (who knows if I'm using the right terminology).
tl;dr:
I have a whole bunch of psd files that need to be converted to something called 'spot color format'
the images are graphics to be placed in an indesign file, not to be printed on their own, so really, they have to be in the spot color format.
Is there any way in reality to maintain the quality of these images and convert them into 'spot color format'?
I'm still trying to understand illustrator (I'm really a painter, not a designer -- wtf is a vector), but would love to convert the psd files I already have into something usable. the printer people didn't know how, I don't know how (or even understand the issue), but maybe you will?

I tried this with the image you posted, so I can describe in detail the steps.
From the image menu choose Duplicate to keep the original for reference.
From the Image menu choose Mode > CMYK Color.
In the Channels palette, delete (by dragging to the trash there) all channels except the Yellow and Black channels.
Double click the icon of the Black channel and in the window that opens click on the color swatch, then in the next window that opens click the Color Libraries button, and when the next window opens type quickly on your keyboard 161, make sure the desired color is picked and press OK on this and previous window to apply.
Repeat the same for the Yellow channel but choose 375.
Select the 161 channel (former Black) and press Ctrl + L to open Levels. Drag the middle arrow of Input Levels referring to the original to get similar darkness (to me around 0.30 looks similar shade). Press OK to apply and close.
Hold Ctrl and click on the icon of the 375 (former Yellow) channel to load its shading as a selection, and press Ctrl + Shift + I to invert the selection.
Make sure the 161 (former Black) channel is selected and press Ctrl + L to open Levels again. Move the right (white) arrow of the Output Levels (at the bottom) until the background matches in brightness the background of the original (to me 150 looks similar).
That's basically it based on my quick try with your image. This example should help you understand the basic idea and from there if you like, you can further play with the image if you feel you can make it any better with these two colors.
Regarding Spot colors, the idea is that a printing press uses 4 color plates (in Photoshop represented as the four CMYK channels when the image is in CMYK color mode) to print all possible process colors by mixing these four colors (inks). Spot colors are pure inks in cans and each spot color (ink) requires its own plate. Sometimes people print 4 process color plus an additional spot color for achieving a special effect like gold ink or pure corporate color to ensure color consistency which may not be as good when using the four colors mix. But very often, spot colors are used for printing with less than 4 plates to save money and sometimes for artistic effect with special inks.
Following the above example converts the CMYK document to Multichannel Color mode and you have only a few file formats available for saving in the Save As options. From these, practical ones are DCS and PSD files. Both are OK for printing but you may want to confirm with your printer. However if you want to place Multichannel image in programs like Illustrator or inDesign you have to use DCS.

Why does spot EPS not output when converted to CMYK or grayscale?

Apologies if this is a known issue but I can't find it anywhere... I'm using AI CS3 (13.0.2) on an Intel iMac/Os 10.5.4 and I can't figure out why a white logo made from text outlines outputs fine to PDF if I use a spot color but if I change it to grayscale or CMYK, part of the logo doesn't output at all.
The part which self-destructs is a supplied roundel of Caflisch text which has been converted to outlines (unfortunately I don't have the font on my system to do any deep testing). Another part of the supplied logo is a line drawing which outputs fine in any color mode.
So I'm really looking for something to explain why the text part of this roundel outputs fine as a spot color but disappears from view when converted to CMYK or grayscale. I have been placing the file in a Quark 7.1 document and then exporting to PDF but I see the same problem when using the Flattener Preview.
Thanks for any help.
Simon

Sorry for talking to myself like this -- been doing it for years...
Finally found out what was wrong: the submitting designer had set the white coloured text objects to overprint. When I set them to knock out all was well.
Kudos to Acrobat Pro Preflight for pinpointing the problem.
Simon

Greyscale images convert to CMYK

I have created an Illustrator file containing a spot color and a grayscale placed image. When saving as a pdf, the Grayscale image separates (or converts) to CMYK. Am on deadline and appreciate any help.

What is your Document Color Mode (File menu)? Make sure that's RGB. Also make sure the image is grayscale in Photoshop, not CMYK or RGB.

Do any instances of RGB get converted to CMYK on output to PDF?

Hi,
I'm producing a HUGE catalogue that I've inherited from another designer. It will be going to print soon and I'll be providing the printers with a press ready PDF. The catalogue contains hundreds of individual blocks of colour (used to show colour options for a product). All of them are currently made of an RGB mix. Without having to go through each and every one changing to CMYK (there's no instance of each colour in the swatches pallet), is there a quicker way? Also, is it necessary anyway if I'm providing a PDF - I assume they get converted to CMYK in the final PDF?
I've used InDesign for years but never inherited a previous design with so many RGB items in it!
Thanks.

It can also be done via scripting. This is AppleScript:
tell application "Adobe InDesign CC 2014"
    tell document 1
        repeat with a from 1 to count of every color
            try
                set space of color a to CMYK
            end try
        end repeat
    end tell
end tell
Also the converted CMYK numbers you get depends on the document's assigned CMYK profile (or the Color Settings' CMYK Working Space if there's no assignment). And the Intent and Black Point Compensation you choose in Color Settings can have a significant effect on the conversion numbers.

Convert to CMYK?

How would I convert an RGB solid color to CMYK?

Have a look at the ColorModel and ColorSpace classes for starters.
kind regards,
Jos

Convert to CMYK or Export PDF?

I am putting together a big catalog project. In previous projects I converted all images to cmyk before ripping the pdf for final press print. Since the pdf export can convert to cmyk can I leave everything as is (RGB) and do the convert on export or can this cause prepress issues?
rob

There shouldn't be any prepress issues, but there are potential quality considerations.
Converting to CMYK first allows you to tweak the color and do the sharpening after conversion. Doing the conversion during export means you have to sharpen first and accept the default color. In many cases this is not a big deal, but some folks, like me, are real control freaks. :)
The big downside to doing the conversion first is you are stuck with a single output destination. Leaving things as RGB allows you to convert to to a variety of press conditions on the fly from the same file.
Peter

When (if ever) to convert to CMYK for printing?

Hi, I've been doing a ton of Googling and forum searching for an answer to this question, but all of the answers I've been reading are very different and I have no idea which to follow. Essentially, I'm using PS and creating a 10'x10' backdrop for a trade show booth and am trying to figure out if I should start in RGB and convert to CMYK, or stay in RGB and let the printer convert to CMYK. The final deliverable will be in PDF format.
Generally the two answers I've found online have been:
1) If you're making something for print ALWAYS create the document in CMYK color before beginning, or convert to CMYK.
2) NEVER work in CMYK, but instead work in RGB and then let the printer convert to CMYK at the end of the process.
A third answer that has come up less often as been:
1) Create all photos, gradients, etc. in Photoshop. Do all vectors in Illustrator. Bring them together in InDesign and export PDF from there.
I'm sure on some level the answer to the question is situational, but the two primary answers people seem to give are complete opposites and I could use some guidance as to when to follow which one, or if one is a common misconception.

Unfortunately, I don't have an answer to that yet. I've been trying to get all of the more detailed information from the printer, but they have been really slow with the responses despite them needing the design sometime tomorrow (the process was starter over a week ago ) and they have no further detail on their website regarding document setup.
So from the sounds of it, assuming it's using an inkjet process it would probably remain in RGB, and if it's an offset process begin in CMYK?
Also, the design is utilizing several adjustment layers in Photoshop and some of the layers have varying opacities, will those be affected by whatever the final printing method is?
Thanks for you help. I don't have a lot of print experience as you can tell.

After Preflighting a PDF, using Convert to CMYK, Flatten Transparency and Prepress Profile Convert to CMYK only the resultant PDF has a grubby halo along the edge of some white type sitting on an image. The type is part of the image.

I am using a 27" iMac 3.2 GHz Intel Core 5, 8 GB Memory, running Yosemite 10.10.1.
The version of Acrobat that I am using is: Acrobat XI Version 11.0.10
After Preflighting a PDF, using Convert to CMYK, Flatten Transparency (high resolution) and Prepress Profile "Convert to CMYK only" the resultant PDF has a grubby halo along the edge of some white type sitting on an image. The type is part of the image which is 300 dpi.
It is like the image isn't really 300 dpi but has been artificially boosted to that to avoid being tagged by Preflighting, but when Preflighting the file it knows the original resolution.
I have screen grabs which illustrate the problem perfectly but do not know how to post them, if indeed they can be.
Any help or comments gratefully received.

Without the files and possibly screen prints, it is virtually impossible to assist you.
- Dov

Pantone 2196 C how to convert to CMYK it is not in CS6

Pantone 2196 C how to convert to CMYK it is not in CS6

Pantone 2196 C is one of the 336 new Pantone solid colours that were introduced in 2012.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/5361284
The Lab values for this colour are 39 -18 -52. If you're using the appropriate CMYK profile for your printing conditions, you could make a new Process Colour swatch using those Lab values, and it will automatically convert to CMYK.

DNG converter converts RAW Adobe RGB color profile to ProPhoto ??

I have a Canon 5D2. there is an internal switch to shoot RAW files using the Adobe RGB profile. when I open a RAW image in CS4, there is no problem. yet when I open the DNG converted image in CS4, CS4 tells me the image has the ProPhoto color profile. I can convert back to Adobe RGB, but it adds an extra step and (I think probably) loses information. I looked for a switch in the DNG converter to speciy the color profile of the converted image, but could not find it. Any suggestions ?

Hi, Tom.
The real issue here is getting accurate color. You can't get accurate color by setting your monitor profile to sRGB. sRGB is a virtual color space that doesn't describe the exact color gamut of any physical device. But, in order to display sRGB or any color space accurately, you need to get a characterization of your monitor.
Here is an AWESOME way to get access to a colorimeter: http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/pantone-huey-colorimeter Looks like for $32 you can rent this for a week. Go in on this with a friend and profile both of your monitors and hardly pay a thing. If you have a reasonably good quality LCD monitor, this custom profile you make will be fairly accurate for many months. At the very least, this is way more accurate than having no regular calibration at all.
Hope this helps!
Bret

Converting to CMYK destroys colors

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