Discrepancies between following error readings in NI-MAX

We are currently investigating the source of following errors in our systems. Maybe there is something wrong with our setup. We are using stepper motors with third party drivers and incremental encoders. We are using our own test program which performs random movements and then displays the actual position reached, plus the following error, and stops if a certain following error value is exceeded after finishing the motion.
The values read by our program and by the "advanced" data of the 1-axis interactive menu of NI-MAX are identical. However, if we watch the graph of the following error in the "misc plots" section, during the movement  it shows values at least similar to those shown in the "advanced" display. When exceptional high following errors are detected by our program after finishing a cycle, our program shows following error values still identical to those in the "advanced" menu. When we switch to the "misc plots" section, however, at the end of the plot the following error is much lower (and well inside our limits).
Where does the plot display get its data from? Does it read the register with the following error data at the same time as the routine displaying this value in the "advanced" menu? The values shown by the plots at the end of a cycle are always OK and now we have some problems which value to believe ...

Turns out I was using too fast a speed. I slowed it down and all was well.

Similar Messages

  • What are the possible causes of following errors in MAX? Are there any references on how to use MAX?

    Hi, it's me again.
    I've checked the encoder response in MAX (-ve ccw, +ve cw) and it seems fine. But when the motor moves MAX will generate a following error message. Is my encoder causing the problem or have I made a mistake in the settings? I've checked the connections to the encoder and they are all correctly wired.Could there be other causes of following errors?
    The motor does stop earlier when I reduced the following error value, so I'm assuming that the motor stops only when it has reached the set number of following errors and NOT because the motor has reached the target position. Any help is greatly appreciated.
    Thank you.

    It may be that the 7344 is missing encoder values, or that the motor isn't tuned correctly. The first thing I'd like for you to check is that the Encoder Counts per Revolution input to the Axis Settings menu in MAX is set correctly (I believe it defaults to 2000 counts). To check this, you can rotate the motor by hand one revolution to see how many counts have accumulated. Most encoders are either 2000 counts per rev or 4000 counts per rev.
    Once you have that confirmed, autotune the motors and make sure the values for Kp, Kd, and Ki are resonable. (Kd is often around 10x Kp) Once these are set, start your motors moving slowly and observe the following error. This can be seen under the Advanced tab of the 1D Interactive menu. If it is slowly incrementing, t
    hen your're missing counts. If it is negative, then the encoder phases may be backward. If there is no following error, or the count stays constant, then try increasing the speed. It could just be that your encoder sends pulses too fast for the 7344 to read.
    Let me know how it goes.
    Kyle V

  • Receiveing a "Following Error" when clicking HALT on MAX, motor does not energize

    I recently encountered this strange situation. When turning the following error on (value other than 0, say 200, etc), and I move a motor until it encounters this following error, its axis will be killed by default.
    That poses a problem since an un-energized motor in my situation may cause some damage (it may drop down some parts on our fixture). I need to keep the motor energized after a following error.
    I've tried using the STOP vi after any following error occurs, but I've noticed it may take 3 or 4 iterations of STOP to re-energize the motor.
    Better yet, in MAX, if I constantly move the motor shaft by hand, back and forth, and try clicking "HALT", I will continuously see the "Following Error" light turn on, and the motor never energizes. It is constantly killed, even though I'm clicking on HALT.
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    Hey, wanted to get back to you on something I'd mentioned earlier regarding the halt command. I'd stated that the only way to get past the killed state of the motors was to reinitialize the controllers. This isn't correct and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding on that. I had failed to clarify that the halt command will indeed reenergize the motors.
    The halt basically will, first, move the set point or target destination to the current position of the motor and, second, reenergize the coils (because they'd been previously de-energized by the inhibit line going active due to your having exceeded the maximum following error). So, in the situation where you're continually moving the shaft of the motor and pressing halt on the controller, the command is resetting the set point to the current position of the motor. But because of your continual motion, the motor has moved more than your maximum following error by the time the coils are energized. The controller then finds itself in a state of having exceeded the maximum following error and the inhibits are fired again, hence the unresponsive nature of the halt.
    In considering your situation and bouncing some ideas past R&D, we think that your best solution is to implement some sort of a brake on your axis. The whole idea behind monitoring the following error is for safety purposes. With a brake you'll be able to continue monitoring the following error and see the exact behavior you desire. What you'd need to do is wire the inhibit line to the brake such that when the following error trips the motor and the inhibits are fired, they will activate the brake and you'll hold position. You can then call halt to reenergize the coils and the brake will release at the same time.
    Another way you could accomplish this would be to use an axis or stage with more friction. If the friction were sufficient to hold the load of the stage, then when the motors are de-energized when exceeding the following error, the slippage would be none to minimal.
    The brake seems to be the best approach for you. I hope this is helpful to you and again apologize for being unclear on the halt command's characteristics in my previous post. Please let me know if you have any further questions and we'll get you the help you need.
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  • Following error/mech​anical axial clearance-​ solution: static friction compenasti​on?

    Hello,
    Firstly I would like to write something about the motion system which I use:
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    -One of the stepper motor which I use has 1600 counts per revolution and it is connected with encoder which has 4000 counts per revolutions (these are settings which were set up in MAX). Between them is worm gear (gear ratio: 1/360). The encoder was fixed on axis of rotation of long arm and the motor was fixed on the other side of worm gear.
    Few days ago, I recorded data which describes current position of the arm (from encoder) and following error. And there is tiny problem which worry me a little bit: sometimes the value of following error is higher during the motion than in other iteration of movement. To describe this effect better I attached fragments of files at the end of this post (first columns describes current position and second column describes current value of following error). Move constraints in these two cases are the same: velocity 200 rpm, acceleration and deceleration 3 rps/s.
    I think that the reason for that type of situation is that there is a little mechanical axial clearance. In my opinion the solution for this should be use a static friction compensation (in axis settings->filter settings->enable static friction compensation, am I right? If so might you help me to set the proper values?
    With regards
    Peter
    1st file’s fragment (values of following error are acceptable)
    0 0
    0 1
    1 1
    3 4
    7 7
    26 9
    53 10
    97 11
    133 15
    185 16
    251 12
    325 8
    413 10
    498 9
    586 10
    663 18
    777 7
    925 10
    1049 7
    2nd file’s fragment (values of following error are not so good as they should be )
    0 0
    0 0
    0 1
    0 3
    0 5
    0 8
    0 13
    0 17
    0 20
    0 26
    0 34
    0 38
    0 45
    0 56
    0 65
    10 68
    17 76
    26 82
    52 81
    Many thanks

    Hello,
    It looks as though your system is experiencing an increasing following error until enough torque is provided to overcome inertia, so using static friction compensation may help your system. The deadzone values determine when the DAC output is enabled. The maximum deadzone position determines the error which must accumulate before the DAC begins generating a signal to reduce the error. The DAC remains active until the error is reduced to the minimum deadzone position or less. At that point, the DAC deactivates again. This is useful in determining a minimum following error before motion begins when starting a move and it also stops the motion when the difference between the current position and the target position is less than the minimum deadzone position value. This prevents your motor from slowly grinding against the static friction, which could result in damage to the motor or overheating.
    The offset voltage is a voltage boost that is added to the torque of the system and is used to overcome the inertia of the axis. I would suggest starting with the default values for the deadzone position values (5 and 10) and try a small offset voltage value (i.e. 0.1 V). From there, you can modify the offset incrementally until you achieve a system that does not experience the following errors that you listed.
    Try those steps and let me know if you have any additional questions on this issue.
    Regards,
    Scott R.
    Applications Engineer
    National Instruments

  • Following error

    Hi,
    I have a perculiar error.
    Im using a UMI-7774 and a PCI-7344 motion controller with a Compax C3 servo drive. the drive feeds back a simulated encoder signal (digital RS422 5V level differential).
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    The only noticible difference between Axis 1 and the other three is the PWM settings option. I have disabled this option.
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    As the other axes work fine this could be either a problem with the drive (encoder emulation), the 7344 or the UMI.
    Here are some things to check:
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    Please wire one of the working axes to the connector of axis one and the one that is not working to another axis on the UMI. Does the error stick with the motor/drive or with the axis on the UMI? This should tell you where to look for the error.
    If the error sticks with the motor/drive please check the settings, cabling and so on. If it sticks with the axis of the 7344/7774 please double check your MAX settings first. If you really can't find a significant difference (e. g. disabled axis, wrong feedback type,...) there is a chance that either the 7344, the 7774 or the cable are defective. In this case please contact your local NI branch for an RMA.
    Best regards,
    Jochen Klier
    National Instruments Germany

  • In a motion Control System, What is a following error?

    I am trying to understand what a "Following Error" is. I get the error number 70150 which is called a following error. When trying to execute the find home VI in the NI library

    The following error only occurs in closed loop systems. It is simply the difference, in counts, between the commanded trajectory position and the actual feedback position. A good way to characterize your following error is to go into the Advanced menu of the 1-D Interactive portion of MAX, run your motors at a very low velocty (1 rpm), and watch the Following Error indicator. If it is increasing slow and steady, then you probably have the encoder resolution wrong. If it jumps up in spurts, then the encoder may be damaged. If it is increasing very fast, then either the encdoder isn't plugged in, the encoder isn't working at all, or the encoder is plugged in backwards.
    I hope this helps.
    Kyle V
    Applications Engineer
    National Instruments
    www.ni.com/ask

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    "It’s the questions that drive us.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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    Can any body tell me what is the problem
    Regards
    Vijay

    Hi Vishal,
    you meet an old friend of all VC developer.
    Have a look here:
    <a href="https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/VC/32Klimitation">https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/VC/32Klimitation</a>
    Best Regards,
    Marcel

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