DNG Camera Profile vs. White Balance?

I'm having trouble understanding DNG Camera Profiles and haven't found a good explanation online. I understand that each camera or camera/lens combination will have some variations, and I understand the white balance process. But I haven't grasped the idea that I can create a usable profile using one or two ColorChecker shots in conditions that aren't tightly controlled. For example, if I create a DNG Camera Profile using my tungsten lights, how does that help correct photos shot using different slightly warmer or cooler lights? How does the profile taken at an unknown color temperature help correct for another color temperature? And (more fundamentally) how is what the DNG Camera Profiles do different from a white balance adjustment? Feel free to just point me towards an existing explanation. I've read a lot about camera profiles, but I still don't quite get it. Thanks.

See this Luminance Landscape thread about dual illuminant profiles:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43733
If you scroll down to where I (tlooknbill) posted Color Checker chart samples, you'll see the visual differences.
Your camera may deliver different results.

Similar Messages

Can Bridge report in-camera settings for White Balance?

No matter what settings I choose in Bridge Preferences, I cannot get it to tell me what was the White Balance (WB) setting of the camera when raw images were shot.
This seems an odd omission because Camera Raw is passed this information and displays images correctly, although it doesn't report what WB value it was given, only that what you are viewing, prior to any editing, is the default "As Shot".
I'm referring to raw files shot on my Canon 300D, Nikon D700 and Canon 5D Mark II.
Currently I'm using PsCS6 (13.0.1.2 x64), Bridge CS6 (5.0.2.4 x64) and ACR 8.1 on a Windows 7 x64 8GB system, but the same omission existed on the same Windows system with ACR 7.x in CS6 and all releases of PsCS5, Bridge CS5 and ACR 6.6 and 6.7.
On the opening dialog of Bridge Preferences, at the bottom you can choose whether or not you wish to 'Hide Empty Fields'. Selecting or unselecting this option does not have any effect upon Bridge's inability to report WB when, from within Bridge, you select File Info from the File menu or by hitting Ctrl + I.
The only locations in Bridge Preferences I can find that need selection (and which I have selected) for Bridge to supply WB information upon invoking File Info are here:
Preferences\Metadata\Camera Data (Exif)\White Balance; and
Preferences\Metadata\Camera Raw\White Balance
I have also selected Preferences\Metadata\File Properties\Supports XMP, and yet Bridge fails to give the in-camera WB in the Camera Data tab of File Info.
I have been able to locate references to WB in the following tabs of File Info:
File Info\Advanced, where there appears, under the sub-tab 'Exif Properties (http://ns.adobe.com/exif/1.0)', an entry such as 'exif:White Balance:1'; and
File Info\Raw Data an entry such as '<exif:White Balance >1< /exif:White Balance>'.
However, these are just code numbers, not names like 'Cloudy' or 'Shade', and they are not only inconsistent (both showing the code 1 for an unedited image I know was shot with Auto WB and another unedited image I know was shot with Flash WB) but also it would appear that the codes may refer to the WB as modified by ACR - because an image I know had its in-camera WB of Auto altered in ACR shows a code of 'Custom' rather than 0, 1 or some other number.
So what am I missing? Does anyone know how to make Bridge Preferences display the in-camera setting for WB, and if so, under which tab of File Info do you look for the answer once you have set up Preferences properly?
Message was edited by: Andrew_Hart
Just corrected my current Photoshop version

I'm afraid that you just haven't addressed the question that I asked in my original post.
I still like to think I have but if you for whatever reason need this info showing in the metadata you probably be better of trying to alter it your self or find a way to address Paul personally (maybe via a private message).
I have not heard from him for a long time and a small google search provided me with this forum post, hope it helps you, maybe you can also persuaded Paul to come back, he is very missed!
http://www.ps-scripts.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5508

DNG camera profile - which to trust, Adobe's or X-Rite's?

I found that dual-illuminant DNG camera profiles created with X-Rite's ColorChecker application and Adobe's DNG Profile Editor give different visual results (the profiles were produced using the same set of 6500K/2850K illuminated photos). I'm now in trouble which profile(s) to trust, I assume Adobe's is correct...
Andreas

b2martin_a wrote:
I like the DNG Profile Editor better.
Me too. The purpose of the twisting is for more pleasing color. Cool dark greens, but warmer light greens; dark midnight blues, but warmer cyany light blues, deep dark reds, but warmer light reds...
Note: this exagerates what often happens in real life: shadows are cool, sunlit colors are warmer...
The linear profiles may be more accurate, but the twisted profiles may look better.
Obviously this is subjective, and may depend on the shot and the purpose for it...
My favorite profile is a customized version of Adobe Standard created with DNG Profile Editor - a little dimmer in the upper-midtones/lower-highlights, a little less cyany blues, a little cooler greens, and slightly warmer (less magenta-y) reds.
Rob

LR 4 and custom DNG camera profiles... they are not embedded?!

i have the colorchecker passport for some days.
my workflow:
import the .CR2 raw files from memorycard as DNG copy into lightroom.
create a DNG camera profile with the colorchecker passport (LR export -> xrite colorchecker).
then i choose the created camera profile and i set the whitebalance.
all working fine... as it should.
my problem is, i don´t want to have a hundred DNG profiles, i will sure create that much over the time, on my harddisk.
i think it´s messy and it´s also not very save to have the profiles only as separate files, in case you lose the profiles.
i thought the camera profile can be embedded INTO the DNG file.
i thought the camera profile is written into the DNG files when i write the metadata back into the files.. but it seems not.
it seems the DNG camera profile is only embedded into the DNG image file when i EXPORT the DNG file again with the LR export dialog.
for example:
i choose the camera profil "MY 5D MK2 PROFIL_1" for an image and then save the metadata back into the DNG image file.
then i delete the camera profile "MY 5D MK2 PROFIL_1" from harddisk.
the next time i open LR and select the same image ... the cameraprofile is reverted back to "adobe standard" and the profil i have created is gone.
when i EXPORT the image as DNG, then even after i have deleted the DNG cameraprofile "MY 5D MK2 PROFIL_1" from the hardisk.... the profil is still in the DNG image.
that´s what i want... but i have to export all files again as DNG files.
i would really like to get rid of this extra step.
i hope my english is good enough so you understand what my problem is.
can anyone share a light on this?
is this the only way to embedd the DNG camera profile or im doing something wrong?
intel i7 2600k, win7 64bit, 16 GB ram, LR 4 final.

possible.... but imho that can lead (at least in my case ) to problems.
in the case when you forget to update the DNG manually and delete the profiles (because you think they are already embeded via STRG+S).
or when you send them to someone without updating the DNG preview... i think that is unessesary complicating things without gaining a real benefit.. not?
afaik there is no filter option so you can create a smartfilter for images that need to be updated this way?

Looking inside of DNG Camera Profiles and editing them

For those interested in the insides of DNG Camera profiles, and how to edit them, I've written dcpTool.
dcpTool is a compiler/decompiler for DNG camera profiles (.dcp files). dcpTool can decompile binary format DCP files into an XML format for editing with a text editor or whatever, and then compile the XML format file back into a binary DCP file, as well as extract embedded profiles from DNG files. It runs on Windows and OS X command lines, and is based on V1.2 of the DNG SDK.
See here: http://dcptool.sourceforge.net/
Health warning: dcpTool is a command line utility - if you're not comfortable with command line stuff, dcpTool probably won't be of any interest to you.

Very cool, thanks for the info.

Help me understand matrix profiles (DNG camera profiles)

I'm guessing it's a fairly simple question, so please bear with me as I'm working my way round trying to understand the DNG format:
After the de-bayering step, are DNG camera profiles pure 3-channel mathematical curves? I know Adobe DNG editor allows for adjustments from the Color-checker patches & there's some hue sliders etc, but do these build into RGB curves, or is it some kind of additional mild LUT (or something else) applied over the top?
Thanks!
Bert

read here how DNG (dcp) profiles are guiding (or rather how info there is being used by a code) the color transform in Adobe converters = http://wwwimages.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/dng_spec_1.4.0.0.p dfутили
also Sandy Mc... utility is useful to peek inside dpc profiles data = dcptool.sourceforge.net
may be also the following link = Dcp or Icc Profile?
and do a search for posting from Eric Chan (madmanchan) and participants like VitNovak ... here and also forums like LuLa

Feature Request: Opcodes in DNG Camera Profiles?

We now have V1.3 of the DNG spec, with support for opcodes, which is great.
Now, can we the ability to put opcodes in DNG camera profiles?
Given all the hard work has already been done to support opcodes, this would seem to me to be a really value adding thing to do. It would allow profiles to be created that support specific camera/lens combinations. E.g., it would allow the Leica M8's famous "Cyan corners" vignetting problem on uncoded wide ange lenses to be addressed by a profile rather than having to rewrite all the image's raw data.
Thanks,
Sandy

The files are in this directory on my Vista machine and my Win7 machine.
How far do you get when you try to click down to that path in Explorer: C:\ ?
If so:
C:\ProgramData is a hidden directory.
You can enable visibility of hidden files and folders by going to:
My Computer / Alt-Tools / Folder options... / View
and near the top you will find Hide and Show hidden files options.
However, you can also just open My Computer and type c:\programdata into the Address area and hit Enter and you'll be in that folder despite it being hidden, then click your way down to where you need to be.

Apply DNG Camera Profile to scan?

I am setting up a workflow to scan and process a large volume of slides. I am scanning with a Nikon LS5000 and Vuescan, outputting as (linear)DNG and then processing in Lightroom.
For me this is efficient as it unifies my digital and analogue workflows. I could also just output a raw tiff (not color corrected), but I like the smaller file size and the embedding of LR settings with DNG.
I have done test scans for which I then created a custom color correction profile in the DNG profile editor. I am very happy with the level of control over color in the profile editor, and would like to use this to apply color correction to batches of scans shot on a particular film type (kodachrome for example). I know these tools are designed to be used with camera raw, but they perform equally well with linear files.
The problem is that as the dng file was not created by a camera, but a scanner (even though the EXIF data shows the LS5000 as 'camera') I can not get the profile to show up in the Camera Calibration/Profile tab in order to apply it to an image.
Questions:
1- Is there any way to force the profile to load anyway? (LR could have an 'other' option in the profile tab)
2- Can I get LR/Profile Editor to consider the LS5000 as a legitimate camera, as opposed to just producing a generic tiff?
3- Can I somehow manually embed my custom profile into a DNG so that the embedded profile is automatically the right one?
Thanks.

I am aware of the issue with the Nef files, as I found out that they are different from Nef camera files and not read by the DNG converter, or anything other than nikon scan.
There are options though in vuescan with any scanner that allow you to disable all adjustments and export as a 'raw' file, either in tiff or dng format. Vuescan is then primarily used to control the hardware. The only processing that is applied to the scan is the calibration (correcting for variations in intensity in the ccd), and optionally IR-dust removal. The important part is that there is no base curve, gamma, and no color adjustment or icc-profile applied. For practical purposes LR could treat it as raw.
As a hamburger it would be very rare and decidedly pink on the inside. The main 'cooking' should ideally be happening in LR by applying the base curve and color adjustments in one action (camera profile + adjustments) as opposed to in two stages (scanner software followed by PS/LR). My objective is to minimize the 'destructive' scanner software step, as I only want to scan once.

Custom DNG camera profiles only available for DNG files?

I developed a custom camera profile for my Sigma DP-1, using a colorchecker chart and the DNG profile editor.
I exported the DNG profile in the default location.
When I open Lightroom or ACR, the new profile is not available for X3F files, only DNG files. Is this normal???

Well, I've imported the original X3F file as well as the converted DNG file in Lightroom.
When I develop the DNG file, my custom profile appears in the list. When I click on the X3F file, embedded* is the only option.
It may have to do with an incomplete support of the X3F format. I have just repeated the exercise for my D300, and in this case the custom profile is available for NEF files.
Too bad since I'm happy with some of the Adobe camera profiles for the D300, but less so with the default look for Sigma DP-1 files.
I guess I should file a bug report...
* or "matrix" or whatever is the term in the english version, I have the french version which says "incorporé"

Rear camera pink spot / white balance issue

Pink spots are most apparent in auto and fluorecent white balance modes.
Not apparent in cloudy and daylight white balance modes.
Does anyone else have this issue?
Firmware version 17.1.1.A.0.402
Production date 14w11

1. Lens is clean.
2. Lens is not scratched.
3. Nothing is blocking the lens. There is no LED flash on the tablet. Please do some research about a device before trying to give any advice.
4. I have searched about the problem on Google, and found several topics about mobile devices from other brands, with the exact same issue. For some of those devices, the issue had been reduced or resolved with a software update:
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_release_software_fix_for_the_hd2_camera_pink_spot_issues-news-1317.php
http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s2/general/pink-spot-gone-t1135905
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/25/galaxy-s-ii-ke7-update-brings-better-battery-life-fixes-pink-s/

Where do you put DNG camera profile for light room?

I just received my Leica M9 and downloaded from chromasoft a camera profile for the M9. it is a .dcp file but I can not find where to use it.
Adolfo

Dependent on OS. On Windows vista the usual location is Users\username\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CamerRaw\CameraProfiles .
Or you can place it directly in the folder where the Adobe profiles are located, usually Users\All Users\Adobe\CamerRaw\CameraProfiles\Camera|Leica M9
on OSx /Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles
The actual profile is used via the calibration setting in the develop module.

Lens Profile Tool Addition – White Balance Offset Correction

I have noticed that my Canon 17-40mm and 70-200mm F4 IS lenses have virtually identical color temperature and can use the same white balance setting. My Sigma 50mm F2.8 Macro lens is another story, requiring almost 200K and +15 change to White Balance sliders. I am sure there are cases where Canon’s lenses will differ more widely and exhibit a similar degree of white balance differences, not to mention use of UV or 1B protection filters. An 85mm F1.2 lens using “rare earth” low dispersion glass, will have a warmer color temperature than a lens using more common glass elements.
I use the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport to create custom profiles for each of my camera bodies. I typically make separate correction presets for Daylight, Cloudy, and Tungsten (2700K). This requires changing the LR White Balance sliders to obtain “neutral gray in the ColorChecker image files shot in each of above described lighting conditions. It does not appear necessary to create a separate ColorChecker camera profile for each lens, just correction to the LR white balance slider settings.
I did some measurements of change in camera profile for Sunny Daylight (~5,500K), Cloudy (8,000K+), and Tungsten (~2,900K) lighting. There was no measurable change in rendering of the ColorChecker Passport images for the extreme Sunny to Cloudy conditions, and only very slight changewhen comparing the Tungsten profile. This was done by loading a ColorChecker Passport image file and applying alternate profiles:
EXAMPLE:
Open a DaylightColorChecker Passport image file in LR, apply Cloudy Camera Profile, and adjust White Balance for the gray scale patches using the Eyedropper Tool. Then look at the 'Before' and 'After' images....you will see NO visual change to any of the color patches. I saw only a very slight change when doing this with the Daylight to Tungsten (artificial light source) comparison.
The relatively small change in color balance between lenses (~500K max.) should have no measurable or visible affect to the ColorChecker Passport created "Camera Profile." The ColorChecker Passport or any other "Camera Profile" creation tool is first and foremost correcting for differences in the camera's image sensor color rendering.
SUGGESTION:
Since this white balance difference is a factor of the lens, it would be very convenient to add another tool in Lightroom's and Camera Raw Lens Profile panel for “White Balance Offset.” This allows setup of LR defaults for one specific lens type, such as your most used lens. Then you use the new ‘Lens Profile’ located ‘White Balance Offset’ correction tool to adjust white balance for all of your other lenses. In addition, Adobe or camera manufacturers could also provide the 'White Balance Offset Correction' as a function of the lens spectral response deviation from linear. This would provide a "uniform method" of calculating and adding the White Balance correction to the 'Lens Profile.' Since this is a factor of the lens only, the “lens offset correction” can be used with ANY lens/camera body pairing, The current LR and Camera Raw White Balance settings are then only used for “Global” correction of lighting conditions, and NOT for lens differences.
This is a linear mathematical function,which should be extremely easy for Adobe to add the ‘White Balance Offset’ correction feature to LR’s and Camera Raw's Lens Profile GUI. Just like many other tools in LR that some don't use, you can choose to use it or not!

Interesting suggestion. Thanks. -Simon

White Balance in Camera raw

Every time I open an image from Bridge in CS6, into camera raw the white balance always defaults to fluorescent. How can I change default opening to read as"shot as"?

Hi there! Because the forum you originally posted in is for beginners trying to learn the basics of Photoshop, I moved your question to the Camera Raw forum, where you'll get more specialized help.

White balance camera raw

When I open a raw image in camera raw, the white balance sliders are alread at their maximum, making it impossible to improve the image. Teh default white balance window appears as "as shot".

Try clicking on the pull-down menu to the right of “As Shot” and then choose another WB type or choose custom.

Camera profiles in DNG from camera (Leica S2, M8)

Hi all,
I´m reviewing captures from the Leica S2, which is saving Raw in the DNG format after capture. There is only one camera profile in the DNG files ("embedded"). Compared to a JPEG (mode DNG+JPG for capture) of the same shot the color rendering with the embedded profile is more saturated and slightly shifted in the hues. Greens get an ugly plastic look.
I have captures with Leica M8, too. They have more camera profiles: Embedded, Adobe Standard, Camera Standard and ACR legacy (3.6, 4.4).
As I understand Leica M8 DNGs are supported by Adobe with camera specific camera profiles while Leica S2 DNGs are NOT supported by Adobe with specific camera profiles.
Please can someone clarify this?
Second question: Is the Leica S2 embedded profile a camera specific profile (from Leica) or a general camera profile? Who is in charge for the embedded profile?
Mike
((posted this yesterday in DNG forum too, but this forum seems to be more visited))

Jeff Schewe wrote:
As far as I can see, any support for the S2 raw files is preliminary (which means it's NOT officially supported with a full range of color profiles).
Jeff,
I´ve got shots from two S2 cameras and they are pre-production (in terms of firmware, Leica will update this).
I process them with ACR 5.6 / LR 2.6.
As far as I understand "embedded" means color rendering as supposed by the camera maker (in this case Leica) and "Adobe Standard" does mean an official camera profile from Adobe. "Embedded" is pretty close to the color rendering of the S2´s JPEGs.
By the way, Capture One does open the DNG with a "DNG File Neutral" ICC profile. The color rendering is quite different. I know there is no DNG camera profile support in other applications than ACR/LR.

DNG Camera Profile vs. White Balance?

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