Dual 1.42GHz MDD startup troubles

Greetings Mac fans,
Just started having lots of trouble starting up my Pwer Mac dual 1.42GHz MDD. When I do get it to boot up the date is set to 1969 (a good year by the way).
Anyway, I suspect the battery on the logic board is weak.
What is the size/style/# of this battery so I can buy the right one at Radio Shack?
Thanks!

Thanks Douggo. I went out to Radio Shack and got the battery today.
Had a bit of trouble replacing the battery because my NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600 video card was blocking the battery slot. The card runs the full length of the machine, front to back, obstructing the easy extrication of battery.
While pulling out the card there was a spark and smoke from the AGP slot. I got real nervous 'cause I though I'd fried the card or slot! But thankfully the computer started up and the display works. What a pain just to replace this measly little battery.

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I inherited a snazzy dual 1.0ghz G4 MDD and am having trouble diagnosing it's ailment. It chimes when powered on, I can hear the HD spin up, but after about 8-10 seconds the fans spin up to full speed, nothing comes on the screen at all and the fans just continue to spin at full RPM.
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Ewww...sounds bad. I've had that happen once. You see, the fans are controlled by the CPU's temperature, and the faster they move, that means the hotter the chip is. Also, that dried out thermal paste was either caused by, or the cause of your problem, as it is either a sign of excessive heat or non adequate heat protection. Sorry to say this, but I think the CPU is fried. That explains the rapid acceleration of the fans. I COULD be wrong, but that is normally what the syptoms describe. I'd have it checked out by a mac genius, as he can give you a more definate answer. If that's the case, you're gonna need a new CPU, or maybe a new logic board.
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Nadav wrote:
There's an extra component on the 1.42 board which hits the base of my aluminum heatsink, on the copper heatsink there's a cut-out for it.
Eric,
What do you mean by "extra component on the 1.42 board" - I am running a dual 1.25 with a almost brand new copper heatsink and have been experiencing no problems at all. It was an easy fit for my processor. I don't know what you mean by this.
Sorry to say this...but read what I wrote (about the 1.42 board) and then read what you wrote. You don't have a dual 1.42 board, you have a dual 1.25 board. I didn't say that the copper heatsink wouldn't work with a dual 1.25. I said the first aluminum heatsink (with thick fins) will not work with the Dual 1.42 board, which you don't have. You cannot physically mount the first aluminum heatsink on the dual 1.42 board -- the heatsink smacks into a component (sorry I don't know what it's called) on the 1.42 board and you cannot mount/screw it down. The heatsink can't even make contact with the chips.
Put it this way, the copper heatsink will fit any processor 1.42, 1.25 single/dual, etc. However, the same cannot be said of the first aluminum heatsink. The first aluminum heatsink will not fit every MDD processor. It works with a dual 867, dual 1.0, and dual 1.25 -- I can attest to that because I've done it. But the first aluminum heatsink will not physically work with the dual 1.42. You cannot physically mount it on the 1.42 board. The base of the aluminum heatsink smacks into a component on the 1.42 board -- a component which doesn't exist on the other boards I mentioned. The copper heatsink makes allowances for that extra component -- having a cutout on the base so the heatsink can be mounted. On every other CPU board I've tried which doesn't have that extra component, there's no problem with the copper heatsink -- there's a cutout for something which doesn't exist on the other boards.

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Hi Jessamyn
Many times a connected External HD, iPod or other storage device can cause the startup manager to have a problem finding your startup volume, first disconnect all other storage devices to see if that helps. Second go to *System Preferences > Startup Disk* and select the *Mac OS X, 10.4 on Macintosh HD* click the lock and restart.
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Ok, here are my responses to this thread:
1) Already tried the ram route, I have 5sticks of 512mb, all mac/apple ram, tried each stick in there by its self in case maybe more than one stick was bad. Again, no solution there, the shop that did the recent attempt at the computer did bench test the ram and found no problems- I think ram can be ruled out.
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3) The OS was put on the 2nd time after the Nortons et al were used, again- this is not a software problem. No kernel panics, etc. No processes are causing the crash, and it makes no difference if I am in OS9.2, OS 10.2, 10.3 or 10.4 (I own retail cds/disks of every major mac OS release sice sys2).
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Hello! have you watched the video for removing the carrier from OWC? Tom
http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/index.cfm?page=Video/harddrive/g4mddata133 /high.html

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bigj6360,
The problems you are experiencing with random crashes I would say definately are ram related. I had exactly the same problems as you with my MDD & this had new Apple supplied ram.
Random crashes, never any logs or warning or kernal panic screens. Sometimes the computer would run for 10 mins, sometimes for 8 hours after a restart, but one thing for sure, you new it would freeze if you ever did anything you wanted to keep.
In the end I took some ram out of my G5 2 gig, which was DDR 400 Corsair value ram (2 x 1 gig sticks) & put it in my MDD, It has been running for 3 months without 1 crash at all. It is now 100% reliable. What a turn around!
No matter what I throw at it it copes admirably.
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That's what I was afraid of. The MDD dual G4s are about the best bargain for older macs right now. But I don't think I could live with anything louder than the older G4s. I'm in a small room by myself, and having that extra noise would drive me nuts. Guess I better save up for a mac mini!
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I own a 2002 MDD Power Mac - the 1 Ghz dual version -, but I don't have the original OS 9 disks. I'm from Romania, so it's quite hard to get hold of them. Is there a way that someone could help me? I'd really like to run OS 9 on the Power Mac, as my 333 Mhz iMac proves to be to slow.
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You can call Apple Customer Support 1-800-767-2775, provide the Serial Number and specifications of the Mac, and for a fee, a replacement set of system discs (if available), can be ordered.
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I have identified that the PSU is dropping the standby voltage on Pin 1. It does not do it consistently, but when the 25v is missing from Pin 1, the G4 does not start. After a couple of minutes, I can see the voltage return to Pin 1, and the unit starts no problem.
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With the "sometimes" nature of the problem, it could be the front panel board, a much cheaper replacement than a PSU. An Apple tech told me that one way to test the front panel board was to find one of the first Apple USB keyboards for the original iMac. The early ones have a power button like the old ADB boards that overrides the internal board/button. He said that, should the Mac start reliably from the old keyboard, then there is trouble with the front panel board. The Apple model number for the USB board with power button is M2452.
Very helpful forum member japamac has a test procedure for the MDD PSU on his site here:
http://jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/Blog/D275729F-09DA-4FBB-96B3-BEEEB2C0461 9.html
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Most probably the solder issue happens in the U3 system controller which is situated on the backside of the logic board, with a large heatsink assembly. They should have cooled it better. Even on 2 GHz machines it heated up to 80 C quite easily. There's an IBM document [1] boasting how well they designed the thermal pumping endurance of the CPUs (also BGAs) - I don't know whether they applied that bit of engineering to the U3 controller as well..
With the older G5 generation as well as the latest one, it's possible to run the machine with only one CPU attached, and see whether it's one the CPUs that's starting to give up. I don't think the 2.7 model will start up like that, unfortunately.
You could fire up the OF test from the ASD CD and let it run the logic board test (select individual tests) for like 50 runs (loop count) or so and see if it locks up. The problem with the CD is that the fans go full rpm, making the cooling much better than during boot up or in the OS. One of my broken logic boards hung up during the ASD test deterministically and the other only in the OS or during boot up.
You could also loop the CPU tests from the ASD, but they don't seem to be a stress test, but rather just test computational correctness. Looping them probably won't put much heat load on the CPUs. If you can boot into OS, using some small stress test that fits in the CPU cache (small ffts etc..) could be used to verify the CPUs. The ASD memory test should be ok to test the memory buses, but those also go through the U3 chip.
[1] https://www-01.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/59BEA03A4FA9E41787256F D600710800/$file/BGA%20Solution%20for%20G5.pdf

Dual 1.42GHz MDD startup troubles

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