FCP3 & 24p pulldown

Hi all,
I am currently working on an old version of Final Cut Pro (3)... yea I know it's old. (FCP 5 Studio is in the mail).
I want to capture some 24p footage. Does FCP3 have a 24p pulldown, or do I need to wait for my FCP5 to get here?
Thanks in advance.
Toven Stith

Not really sure, but you might check the following links.
http://www.lafcpug.org/panasonic_24p.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/24p_in_FCPnattress.html
http://dvinfo.net/conf/archive/index.php/t-8028.html
http://forums.appleinsider.com/archive/index.php/t-5497.html
K

Similar Messages

60p to 24p Pulldown Conversion - Best Settings?

Our studio recently purchased a new camera for some run-and-gun shooting. Unfortunately, it does not support 24p natively, only 60p & 60i. It does, however, support shutter speeds from 1/2 all the way to 1/4000. What advice can you give regarding pulldown conversion into a 24p project, both for camera settings and FCPX?
Please note that I'm looking for 1:1 speed, NOT slow-mo.

Shane, I understand the difference in motion. And as I said, it was not my intention to capture at the frame rate that I did. With regards to the slight stutteryness, I'm comparing one of these problem clips to an actual 24pN clip from an earlier part of the shoot. I put both in the 23.97 timeline, but the one captured at 60p feels like it should still run slightly smoother or with a little bit more motion blur maybe. I think I'm simply looking for the best way to cheat that "look" back into the footage.
Your post below is right. Cinema Tools is not a good option for that as this doesn't really have much to do with 2:3 3:2 pulldown type operations and it won't let me conform the footage anyway.
Ben

24p Pulldown Conversion Quadrupling File Size?

I found this useful thread below describing an easy foolproof method for converting to true 24p using Compressor 3:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=98411
But alas, every clip that I convert becomes five times larger in size.
218.7 MB after compressor becomes 1.2 GB
71.8 MB becomes a new file of 391.2 MB
215 MB becomes 1.17 GB
Obviously there is more of a decompression going on here. Any Clues?

You're failing to account for how the data rate - how much space one second of video takes up - differs between the HDV codec (what FCP digitizes) and the ProRes422 HQ codec.
The data rate of your HDV clips are so much lower because it uses interframe compression. In plain english, even though there are 30 frames of video recorded to tape, not all 30 frames are complete, standalone images - they rely one other images to complete them. This makes HDV very efficient when it comes to hard drive space, but a total nightmare when it comes to post and editing.
ProRes422 HQ does not make use of interframe compression, so each second, despite containing fewer frames, does contain complete frames. ProResHQ's data rate is variable (depending on the frame size and source picture) but it is, as you've found, beefier than HDV. Much beefier.

24p Advanced problems

Hi there. If anyone who can help me with this issue I would greatly appreciate it.
Ok so I am using a Panasonic DVX100a and shot a bunch of footage. I shot it in 24p advanced. I'm using Adobe Premiere CS4 and captured the footage via firewire into a DV 24p sequence. I'm able to edit it fine but am having sever problems with the picture quality. here's what's going on:
1. My first issue is that everywhere I've looked online, everyone says you need to interpret footage and remove 24p pulldown BEFORE you drag clips to the timeline, otherwise it's too late. BUT, I started editing my footage and only after a few hours found out I needed to interpret the footage and remove pulldown. So I did this to the captured footage, and it effected the clips in my timeline, contradictory to what everyone has said about how you must do it before putting clips onto the timeline. Not a big deal, but I'm just wondering why it did this (maybe I have an update other people don't have?)
2. I did a render test to see exactly what removing the 24p pulldown was doing and when I played the rendered clip back on Windows Media Player and VLC, with the 24p pulldown removed I have horrible interlacing, but with it NOT removed I have no interlacing but do have jittery footage. I understand that 24p will be jittery but this looks REALLY jittery. Again, this seems backwards to what I've read about how you need to remove pulldown in order to remove interlacing.
3. With 24p pulldown not removed, I render the file as an MPEG with everything turned up - bitrate and quality. I set the frame rate to 24. When I play it back on VLC it looks decent but not very good. I ultimately want to upload this footage to Youtube so I want it to look nice but I understand it might not look phenominal. Is there a recommended render setting I should use?
I maybe screwed myself by shooting in 24p advanced but instead of blowing it off and just shoting 30i next time I really want to learn the specifics of 24p advanced so I can use it properly in future projects. If anyone knows the answer to these problems, I would be grateful to hear them. Thanks.

I *kinda* solved my problem. Not really. I went through my footage, frame by frame, and when it's interlaced, only the 4th frame is interlaced. the other 3 frames are progressive frames. This is in 24pa. Anyways, when i captured my footage, I captured one long file. I then chopped the long file into small "scenes" to move around the timeline. What''s wierd is that if I interpret footage to my one long, captured file and remove 24p pulldown, ir removes the interlaced frames on some of my scenes and PUTS IN interlaced frames in other scenes. You would think since it's one long, captured file, that by interpretting the footage and removing the 24p pulldown it would effect the all clips evenly. But no, it doesn't. When I don't check the remove pulldown box, then the clips that didn't have interlaced frames now do, and the ones with interlaced frames don't have them anymore. It's wierd - it's like Premiere is automatically removing the pulldown on some parts of my captured video file but not others. Does this make sense? Has anyone else experienced this??

Premiere CS3 and 24p exporting

Hello,
I've been working on this problem for a long time.
I have some clips shot with a Canon XL2 in 24p mode with 2:3:3:2 pulldown. I import in Premiere CS3 in a 24p project, go in "Interpreter footage" and set "Remove 24p pulldown", and in the timeline the clips are good, 24p without interlaced frames.
Then I go exporting: I want export in 24p (23,97) DV format.
1) If I choose "Microsoft DV AVI" with "DV (24p Advanced)", the clips I get are in 29,97 with still the flagged frame that should have been removed. So I have the same output format that I get setting DV NTSC with his 29,97 framerate.
2) If I choose "Microsoft AVI" and then I go with an alternative DV codec, such as the Panasonic's one (but I've tried many and I've got the same results, so I don't think it's their fault), I get a 23,97 clip, but the frame that has been removed is not the flagged and interlaced one, is one of the progressive. Watching the clip frame to frame I see that I have 24 fps: 3 progressive, 1 interlaced, 3 progressive, 1 interlaced, and so on.
Let me know. Sorry for my bad english but I'm italian.
Thank you

My own testing shows that Premiere doesn't create 24p friendly DV files. I've had much better success creating 24p MPEG2-DVD files.

24p Advance Capture Question? Problem?

Hi I have a lot of material for a feature film shoot on a DVX100 in 24p Advance using a 16:9 anamorphic converter lens. I am Using FCP6 and I am capturing with a custom preset to be able to capture in 16:9 with the Remove Pulldown option cheked to edit in 24p (I will eventually transfer to film) The weird thing or problem that I am having is that most of the clips shows up as 23.98 as it should be But some times I get some clips in 29.97!!!! The camera Setting was never changed in Production!!! it always stayed in F6 the 24p Advance setting!!! I then tried the remove Pulldown options in Tools menu but I ended up with a clip with interlace fields!!!! very Weird!! So I thought that the tape was shoot in regular 24p, but I made a test shoot in regular 24p and then tried to remove the Pulldown via the Tools menu option but It won't let me because it was NOT shoot in 24pA!!! Si I have a Bunch of clips in 29.97 That I KNOW I shoot in 24pA but for some reason when I capture it doesn't remove the Fields and When I tried to remove it after capture I ended up with a interlace clip!!! Does anybody know id theres a Bug with this Workflow!! The camera is the DVX100 not the DVX100A or DVX100B. I used Cinema tools to convert the footage and it did it fine, But I want to avoid using Cinema Tools because it adds more time to the production!!! Can anyone have a clue? Thanks in advance!!!

I've been working with 24PA footage from a DVX-100A and an HVX-200 for three years now. I do find it tricky to get the Advanced Pulldown Removal to work properly during digitizing.
Now, the following advice relates ONLY to footage shot in the 24P Advanced mode. I have never worked with footage shot 24P "regular pulldown." I think you're supposed to just capture and work with that footage in 29.97 mode, enjoying the 24p "look" but not a true 23.98 frame rate.
Any little interruption - the camera stops for more than 15 minutes being the most common - will break the cadence of the 24p pulldown. So you have to break up your tape into clips which don't cross these "cadence breaks."
Also, some VTRs and cameras seem to work better than others. There's not always rhyme or reason to this (more expensive may not equal better performance.) For example, right now, I have some footage which my Sony DSR-11 deck was choking on but my friend's Sony FX-1 camera plays back for capture just fine.
My method is to rewind my shoot tapes to the begining, hit "play" then "Capture now."
FCP captures the whole tape, breaking up into clips, sometimes at inexplicable but always consistent places.
Usually, the last clip captured will be at 29.97 frame rate. The 24p "look" is still present in the footage, but obviously if you cut it into a 23.98 fps sequence, you'll have to render - a very annoying waste of time.
I observe the in and out points of any 29.97 clips, and capture new clips based on them. For example, if I get:
TAPE 001 TC IN 1:00:32:19 TC OUT 1:29:57:22 RATE 29.97
I make a new clip and capture it (batch capture if you like):
TAPE 001 TC IN 1:00:35:00 TC OUT 1:29:55:00 RATE 23.98.
The bottom line, though, is the more suitable your equipment, the better results you'll get.
Good luck. I hope this helps.

Jitter in 24p images

I shot a feature with the Panasonic AG-DVX100A using the 24p mode (not 24p advanced)and edited it on Final Cut Pro. Now, whenever I try to burn a DVD or output to tape, the image has an annoying jitter/flicker effect that was not present in the source material. Anyone have ideas on what the best way is to bring my movie into DVD Studio Pro and output a version that looks correct?

All NTSC cameras record 23.976 rather than actual 24P so this difference shouldn't really be an issue.
The frame dropping is odd, but I wouldn't be surprised by odd behavior because it appears you've been using FCP settings that were designed for 24P Advanced while your footage is not advanced. This is likely a cadence error due to the differences between your footage and advanced footage.
If you plan on editing in 23.98, you should use the 24P advanced setting on the DVX. The non-advanced 24P pulldown cadence is not compatible with the feature that FCP uses when removing the pulldown at capture from advanced footage.
If you recorded in 24P non-advance, you would probably have a better time just editing in 29.97fps or using Cinema Tools to remove the pulldown manually. Editing the footage in 29.97 will basically look the same as editing in 23.98 as long as you aren't doing any really advanced rotoscoping or scaling of footage.
Don't rely on FCP to remove Pulldown from non-advanced footege during capture.
I may be wrong about this, so please verify this in the FCP manual. That's where I learned this. Good luck.

Need help with 24fps in Premiere Pro CS4

I am having issues working with 24fps imported video. My computer hardware is an AMD dual core processor running at 2.6GHz. It has 2GB of Kingston Hyper-X memory, 2x 300GB hard drives (not RAID), and an Nvidia 7900GS video card with 256MB video ram. My operating system is Windows Vista Ultimate with SP1. I am running Premiere Pro CS4 with all the current updates.
So here is the issue I am having. I captured video on a Canon XL2 in 24fps, 16:9 widescreen, and 2:3:3:2 pulldown. My CS4 project settings were set up as DV-24P Widescreen 48KHz. I did not try changing other settings on the other tabs. I captured the video directly from the XL2 with no dropped frames. The resulting AVI plays back in Windows Media Player 11 correctly. What I mean by that is the is no jerky video, I get no raster lines, and the video quality is very clear. When I load the video into the time line and play it back in the program monitor the video jerks like it is dropping frames, I get raster lines and it looks like video clarity fades in and out.
At first I thought nothing about it. I used Adobe Media Encoder, and burned a DVD. Playback on my widescreen TV looked jerky, rastered, and the video was only clear in static scenes. So I made some test projects with different settings. Still had no success. The original capture looks good, but whatever I do in Premiere the video jerks and looks like old VHS video.
I did another test. I set the XL2 to 30P and 4:3, and captured the video. Again the captured AVI looks good. Put it on the Premiere timeline and played it in the program monitor. It plays fine - good video quality, no rastering, and no jerking. Made a DVD with no problems in the video. So my question is what setting in Premiere do I need to capture, edit, and export 24fps 16:9 widescreen video so that it plays back with with the same video quality as it was captured? Do you think it is an encoder problem? The captured AVI is what ever encoder came with Windows/Premiere as I have not added any other encoders.
Any help would be apperciated. If I have not supplied enough information, please just ask.

If the video is playing back badly in Premiere Pro from the timeline, then the things I would check would be the program monitor quality - is it set to highest...if you don't know where that it is, click on the 4 horizontal lines in the top corner of the program monitor - make sure highest quality is selected. It also may be a video card issue - are your drivers up to date? If the clips are only playing back badly on the PPro timeline (and anything exported from it), but fine in Windows Media Player - something is up.
As for the frame rate - no, you don't have to work at 24P...as mentioned before, the camera actually records at 29.97 fps, but is able to be played back and edited at 23.976 fps (or 24P)...it's a complicated explanation on how it all works...
If you're going to finish to a regular DVD, then working at 29.97 is the way to go. As for the interpret footage command, highlight the clips in your bin, then right click on them - in the menu, you'll see interpret footage - click on that and a new window should open...you should see a box with a check next to it that says remove 24P pulldown - click it (removing the check) and the footage frame rate should change to 29.97 - then click OK...create a 29.97 sequence (DV NTSC Widescreen 48Khz), and edit away.

CS4 vs. Interpret footage (23,976)

System:
Windows 7 (64)
Premiere CS4 (Demo)
AJA Bord
Uncompressed AVI (v210) workflow
I used to work with CS2 and I may upgrade to CS4. In my tests I was not able to use interpret footage propperly.
No matter what I tried, every source file (24, 25 and even 23,976) can not be interpreted as 23,976.
Premiere always changes 23,976 to 23,98.
1. This was working fine in CS2
2. It seems like this is just a display problem and the files are still treaded correctly.
Is there anyone who had the same problem?

It's a display rounding issue, near as I can tell. Do this test:
Import a clip that is 23.98fps. Take a note of the duration of the clip.
Select "Interpret Footage" for that clip, and change the frame rate to "23.976".
When you deselect the frame rate field, it will automatically round to two decimal places, e.g. 23.98. This will also be reflected in the project panel information area.
Now take a note of the duration of the clip; it will be slightly longer. It IS now being interpreted as 23.976fps, hence the slightly longer duration.
I found this to be the case with DVCPROHD 720p clips recorded using OnLocation; you can set OnLo to automatically remove the padded frames from a 720p/24p "over 60" stream to create true 24p AVIs. However, there's a bug in the way they're interpreted in Premiere Pro, in that they when they're imported, the pulldown is removed again, resulting in clips with 19.18fps. You can uncheck the "remove 24p pulldown" box in the interpret footage dialog, but they are then intepreted as 23.98fps. When trying to synchronize and multicam edit these files with 720/24pN clips recorded to a P2 card (which are correctly identified in Premiere as 23.976fps), they eventually go out of sync. So, in the interpret footage dialog, after unchecking the pulldown box, I have to manually enter "23.976"--again, it displays as "23.98", but the duration changes and the clips stay in perfect sync throughout the duration of the multicam.
Hope that helps...

Need help! Installation Failed of Flash Pro CS4

Sorry for my bad Eglish first.
I downloaded a trial version of Flash Pro CS4 on the Adobe official website and installed it in my Win 7 (x64) using the user account (as an Administrator).
It seems that every step of the installation is fine, except end up with the "installation failed" dialog window as the following snapshot.
(Sorry for the Chinese messages in the snapshot, it says "Installation Failed" and "One or more required components of Adobe FlashPro CS4 failed to install correctly")
I clicked the button on the bottom left for further detailed information, and it showed:
Adobe Flash CS4
Error:
Error 1603. Error 1317.An error occurred while attempting to create the
directory C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu
Adobe Bridge CS4
Error:
Error 1603. Error 1317.An error occurred while attempting to create the
directory C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu
Adobe Device Central CS4
Error:
Error 1603. Error 1317.An error occurred while attempting to create the
directory C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu
Adobe Drive CS4
Error:
Error 1603. Error 1317.An error occurred while attempting to create the
directory C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu
Adobe ExtendScript Toolkit CS4
Error:
Error 1603. Error 1317.An error occurred while attempting to create the
directory C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu
Adobe Extension Manager CS4
Error:
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directory C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu
Adobe Media Encoder CS4
Error:
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I tried deactive my AntiVir and close the other applications and then installed again, but in vain.
Could soemone please give me a help to solve the problem?
Thank you

If the video is playing back badly in Premiere Pro from the timeline, then the things I would check would be the program monitor quality - is it set to highest...if you don't know where that it is, click on the 4 horizontal lines in the top corner of the program monitor - make sure highest quality is selected. It also may be a video card issue - are your drivers up to date? If the clips are only playing back badly on the PPro timeline (and anything exported from it), but fine in Windows Media Player - something is up.
As for the frame rate - no, you don't have to work at 24P...as mentioned before, the camera actually records at 29.97 fps, but is able to be played back and edited at 23.976 fps (or 24P)...it's a complicated explanation on how it all works...
If you're going to finish to a regular DVD, then working at 29.97 is the way to go. As for the interpret footage command, highlight the clips in your bin, then right click on them - in the menu, you'll see interpret footage - click on that and a new window should open...you should see a box with a check next to it that says remove 24P pulldown - click it (removing the check) and the footage frame rate should change to 29.97 - then click OK...create a 29.97 sequence (DV NTSC Widescreen 48Khz), and edit away.

I Reinstalled Premiere Pro CS3, loaded a project I edited using CS3, and NOW I get jagged edges!

Hey everyone. I was using Premiere Pro CS3 to edit some footage I shot with my HPX170 in 1080i 24p Advanced. The P2 footage looked great in Premiere CS3. I upgraded to Premiere CS5, imported the same exact project into CS5 using the same 1080i 24p Advanced setting, and I got jagged stair stepping edges on the objects that were in sharp focus in my footage. Okay, I thought, I'll just reinstall Premiere Pro CS3 and continue editing the footage in CS3 since it looked normal in CS3 with no jagged edges. But, to my surprise, I'M GETTING THE SAME EXACT THING NOW IN PREMIERE PRO CS3!!!! What in the heck is up with that? How can the footage look normal when I imported and editied it before in CS3 and NOW I get jagged stair stepping edges?!!!! I even tried importing a fresh clip from the footage and that clip still has the jagged stair stepping edges. This makes no sense whatsoever! Does anyone know what's going on with this? It seems like an interlace artifact problem BUT, if that's the case, why didn't it do this the first time in Premiere Pro CS3? And trust me, I would have noticed right away if it did!

Hey Shooternz. Which exact playback settings are you asking about? I set the one of the playback settings to "Highest Quality" instead of "Automatic" and nothing changed. I unchecked 24p Pulldown in the "Interpret Footage" section and nothing changed (I don't even remember "24p Pulldown" being in the Interpret Footage section the first time I installed CS3, which is strange. Was that added in an update?). I tried different sizes like HD 1.5, HD 16:9, etc. in the Interpret Footage section and the jaggies are still there. Nothing seems to work. ??? This is weird because they weren't there the first time I edited the footage in CS3 when I installed CS3 the first time. One thing I noticed is, when I installed CS3 the second time and loaded the project, as the project was loading, I got a message that said something like "These project settings cannot be loaded. We will now switch to Desktop Mode." Would that have something to do with it you think?

New AJA drivers for FCS 2

http://www.aja.com/html/support_swd.html
Go get them when you're ready.

1080i 29.97 footage in DVCPro HD (containing 24P pulldown - not removed). I would like to wait until tomorrow to report the details on most of my issues since I suspect many culprits and have taken many steps this evening to limit most of my variables. I actually bought a new machine this evening and will try a "fresh" install on the new OSX tomorrow before panicing.
Today, I was unable to get any DVCPro HD 1080i footage to play out my Kona inside FCP. With FCP not running I could get the Control Panel to send out Color Bars, but as soon as I launched FCP, Blue horizontal stripes.
Motion content was a disaster. Rendering a single text layer over HD footage at about 1 frame/sec. I will re-try this before installing the Kona drivers v4 tomorrow to see if that is culprit. I honestly can't imaging Apple shipping Motion if was as bad as it was for me today. I hope it is a driver conflict.
I will see if things improve with the new OS and overspec'd machine (8 core with 1900 ATI) and report tomorrow evening.
I may try converting some of my footage using Compressor to ProRes as an experiment as well, although I expect this to be after I get output functioning.

AME CC cannot encode DV .mov at 23.98

Hey Adobe, please fix your broken preset for AME CC.
It refuses to encode DV .mov files at 23.98 (this was a known issue in cs 6 as well)
Even if I create a new DV 24p preset,
It ALWAYS encodes them to 29.97--This is not helpful, It needs to work.

This is intentional. DV 24p really is 29.97 fps, not 23.976. Or rather, it's both. 3:2 or 2:3:3:2 (Premiere/AME does the latter) pulldown is added to bring the 23.976fps material up to 29.97. Advanced programs like Premiere, After Effects, AME, etc can detect and optionally remove the pulldown, turning the material back into 24 fps progressive video. In Premiere/AME, you can keep or remove the pulldown in the Interpret Footage dialog using the "Remove 24p DV Pulldown" checkbox. If the box is checked, the material will be interpreted as progressive 23.976. Simpler programs such as QuickTime Player that don't understand 24p pulldown will interpret the material as 29.97.

Please help! GH1 footage has jagged edges in Premiere Pro CS5!

Hi everyone. I shot some footage with my Panasonic GH1 (the GH1 records 24p inside a 60i wrapper) and placed it into the AVCHD 1080p 24 timeline. Now, my footage has jaggies wherever there are horizontal edges of objects in the footage (eyeglasses frames, edges of chair, etc.). I am guessing this has to do with the footage being interlaced. But, when I click on the clip and go to Interpret Footage and click "Always Deinterlace", nothing happens. The footage looks exactly the same! How do I get rid of the jaggies? Thanks.

Yes it does. But... here's something I found out recently. I downloaded the Cineform Neo Scene demo and while it works, it makes huge .avi files and kinda defeats the purpose of being able to edit the native files. So.. after further investigating... late last night I launched TMPGEnc 4.0 Xpress just to see if the cineform codec is in the options.. It is. So, I could use the codec from the demo to do the job... But.... Xpress does a FANTASTIC job of pulldown on it's own! Just click filters>deinterlace.. 24p Pulldown removal! Then you can save that as a preset and apply it to groups of clips. Then export as .mp4 which is also h.264 at around 20mb/sec CBR and you have files around the same size as originals that will edit just like AVCHD in CS4.2/CS5 Plus.... Xpress 4.0 uses the Cuda card for encoding! SWEET!
Oh.. full version $99
http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/te4xp.html

Settings to use with 29.97 mixed with 23.976 in same timeline?

Hi everyone,
I just finished a short project which was mostly 24p (23.976) but had a few shots which were 29.97 interlaced. I edited it on a 24p timeline (I dragged the 24p clip to the "new timeline" icon to get started. I then had a few clips which I wanted to include but were 29.97. I followed Andrew Kramer's tutorial on frame-rate conversion and got outstanding results converting the 29.97 to 23.976 which dropped right into my timeline.
Was this an ideal way to work with mixed frame rates (progressing and interlaced, not just different progressive speeds)? I've read that the output should determine the final rendering which in my case will most always be DVD. I've been reading about the 24p Pulldown which looked like it might be easier to just use an interlaced timeline with the pull down on the 24p clips but then I've also read that there are 24p and 24pa clips that are different. Am I making this more complicated than it really is?
Thanks,
-Stephen

Hi Jim, Thanks for replying. It's all HD. This particular project was mostly Panasonic AVCHD 29.97 footage. The few clips I decided to add were from a Canon t2i shot at 24p. Of course if I intend to mix them they should match but in case I run into this again I thought I better ask what the workflow should be.

FCP3 & 24p pulldown

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