HD-SDI data rate (uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2)

I have a new BlackMagic HyperDeck Shuttle, the output file format is a MOV file that is uncompressed 1920 x 1080 10-bit 4:2:2. When I put this output clip into Premiere here is what the properties of the clip show.
What bothers me is the "Average Data Rate" of 90.8 MB/second. Is this what I should be seeing? I was under the impression that uncompressed HD 10-bit 4:2:2 required much higher.data rates something like 180 MB/second and thereby necessitating RAID arrays for Premiere.
Does anyone have uncompressed HD data to compare to my results? The data is complete as I did also record the regular AVCHD data and have both in a timeline

Frederic, Eric was my first consult and I did send him some benchmarks so here they are, they happen to sell the same Mushkin Callisto that I have.
But first let me tell you the convoluted trail. BM requires you to format the drive to HFS+. BlackMagic Disk Speed Test will not run on a PC unless it is a PC format. I did a secure erase to set the SSD to all zeros, then I formatted to HFS+ and found that their disk test gave me a BSD. Backing up I then formatted to NTFS and ran the BM DST test. Now their test never stops running and bounces all over the place on testing without any indication of what is really happening so what you see here is a probable best case screen grab. I also ran AS SSD Benchmark. I also tried running off my Intel ICH10R and my Areca 1880
I am to embarrassed to show the bad ones. I have never seen such large excursions, probably due to the unique nature of SSD's. I will say this above data was not influenced by cache which gave initial readings in the Gigabyte range as evident in the AS SSD Sequential test below.
If you believe this benchmark I of course do not have the write speed required but what one do you believe.

Similar Messages

Uncompressing 128 bit rate

Is it possible to uncompress 128 bit rate to something like 160 or higher? I see the option of switching imported songs to higher quality under preferences. when I switch then convert the song in iTunes I see a change in the memory of the song, but is it really changing the quality of sound. If this works then what is the point of DRM free music having 256 quality if you can upconvert, if this is possible.

if you are throwing out the cd and want to keep your songs close to cd quality.
Don't throw out your CDs! They are the best quality version of the song, and they are not subject to loss in hard drive crashes. If you are really tight on storage space, toss the plastic jewel cases and save only the discs.
by the way what is cd rate?
Technically it is 1411 kb/s, although because of the different coding scheme, that number can't really be compared to the bit rate of a compressed format like AAC or mp3. It would be "reasonably accurate" to think of CD quality as equal to a compressed format at 320.
Windows XP & 30GB iPod

Uncompressed 8-bit problems...

I am digitizing into my FCP from a digibeta via an AJA IO box using an SDI A/V connection. Scratch disk is a Maxtor with 130GB free. Everything is fine when I digitize at 8-bit to DV NTSC 48Khz, but when I try to digitize uncompressed 8-bit NTSC 48Khz, I am dropping frames like crazy and encountering time code breaks, although the tape is fine. Oddly enough, just in trouble shooting, I've found that I have no problems capturing uncompressed 8-bit NTSC at 23.98fps, even though the tape is standard NTSC NDF video timecode. I'm having the same porblem with multiple tapes from varying sources, so I don't believe it is a tape specific problem. Any one have any ideas why this would occur? Thanks!

If you're dropping frames during capture it's because the drive can't keep up with the data rate.
Scratch disk is a firewire drive? That's the problem... Might work though, if it's a really fast one, you do short captures, and is formatted Mac OS Extended. But I doubt it's really reliable unless it's part of a raid system. There are FW solutions, but not from Maxtor... G-Tech drives will do it (the G-RAID products).
An internal SATA would work better than a single FW drive because it's faster, but of course this takes a G5 Tower for the install... is that what you have?
DV works becuase the file size is 1/5th the size of 8 bit uncompressed, so your slower drive can keep up.
Jerry

H.264 All-Intra Data Rates Significantly Higher

Does the built-in H.264 codec encode I-frame only files differently? I am trying to determine the optimal GOP length for high bitrate exports. Image quality seems to degrade, even in the I-frames, when using key frame distances greater than one.
After performing a series of tests to characterize the Adobe H.264 encoder, I discovered that exported files are significantly larger when key frame distance equals one frame (N=1). The average video data rate for a test file rendered with the Adobe H.264 encoder is as follows:
N=1 : 2.17 bpp : 24I
N=2 : 0.66 bpp : 12I + 12P
N=3 : 0.59 bpp : 8I + 8B + 8P
Note how the data rate drops 70% (from 2.17 to 0.66 bpp) even though 50% of the I-frames still exist when N=2. By comparison, here is the video data rate when exporting with QuickTime H.264:
N=1 : 0.89 bpp : 24I
N=2 : 0.70 bpp : 12I + 12P
N=3 : 0.64 bpp : 8I + 16P
The following chart shows data rates at key frame distances from 1-48 frames for Adobe H.264, QuickTime H.264 (via Adobe), QuickTime Pro, and Expression Encoder 4 Pro. Data rates are consistent among all encoders at GOP lengths greater than one. There is an anomoly with the Adobe H.264 codec compressing all-intra files.
The observed behavior occurs in all profiles, which were tested at Levels 4.1, 4.2, 5.0, and 5.1:
Image quality is better in the Adobe H.264 all-intraframe file, especially with respect to detail retention. The pictures below show sections of two consecutive frames magnified 400%. The file with N=2 is less accurate and contains noticeable blocking. Even the I-frames don't look as good in the files where N>1.
The test file was a seventeen second Premiere Pro sequence consisting of H.264, MPEG-2, and AE files with effects applied. Exports were rendered from the Premiere Pro timeline and from a V210 uncompressed 4:2:2 intermediate file of the sequence. The following settings were used:
Format: H.264
Width: 1280
Height: 720
Frame Rate: 24 fps
Field Order: Progressive
Aspect: Square Pixels (1.0)
TV Standard: NTSC
Profile: Baseline, Main, and High
Levels: 4.1, 4.2, 5.0, 5.1
Render at Maximum Bit Depth: Enabled
Bitrate Encoding: VBR, 2-Pass
Target Bitrate: Maximized for each Profile/Level
Maximum Bitrate: Maximized for each Profile/Level
Key Frame Distance: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 12, 24, 48
Use Maximum Render Quality: Enabled
Multiplexer: MP4
Stream Capability: Standard
Software:
Adobe Media Encoder CS6 Creative Cloud v6.0.3.1 (64-bit)
Premiere Pro CS6 Creative Cloud v6.0.3
Windows 7 SP1
QuickTime Pro for Windows v7.6.9 (1680.9)
MediaInfo 0.7.62 (for GOP and data rate information)

I think the short answer is yes,
a h.264 encoder does I-frame only differently. I frames are complete expressions of a picture with no temporal compression information.
P frames use _P_redictive information. IE information from prior frames.
B frames use _B_i-directional predictive frame information.
h.264 gets the majority of it's bit saving from use of B and P frames. When you do I-frame only you only get the block compression and none of the advantages of P and B frames. Thus the GOP N=1 doesn't get very good bit's per pixel.
Having said all that I do find your comment...
Profitic wrote:
Note how the data rate drops 70% (from 2.17 to 0.66 bpp) even though 50% of the I-frames still exist when N=2. By comparison, here is the video data rate when exporting with QuickTime H.264:
... very interesting. Indeed, why is the datarate 70% less when it should at best be 50% for GOP N=2. 50% less should be the same I-frame information plus 0 bytes for the B frame between them. (GOP = I,B,I). Any more than that and it is throwing away bits from the I-frame. So, this seems to be to be a ratecontrol bug.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_pictures
"The GOP structure is often referred by two numbers, for example, M=3, N=12. The first number tells the distance between two anchor frames (I or P): it is the GOP size. The second one tells the distance between two full images (I-frames): it is the GOP length. For the example M=3, N=12, the GOP structure is IBBPBBPBBPBBI. Instead of the M parameter the maximal count of B-frames between two consecutive anchor frames can be used."

Apple Uncompressed 10 Bit 4:2:2 for After FX7

Hello All
I work in a post product digital facility and we have currently upgraded our department to After Effects 7.
The G5 workstation run on Mac OSX 10.4.8 and have a mixture of Aja Kona and Blackmagic cards.
However we would like to render out Quicktimes to the generic Apple Uncompressed 10 bit which is usually featured in After Effects, but is no longer available as option in either After Effect 6.5 and 7 since we upgraded.
Qucktimes are rendered out from After Effects and then they are layed off to tape via Final Cut Pro.
Please could you tell me where i can download the generic apple uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 ?
Once codecs are imported where are they stalled is it in User - Library - Preference....somewhere?
Also does anybody know how to import a generic Apple Uncompressed 10 bit codec into After Effects7, is this done through interpretation rules.txt * refer to attached jpeg.
Furthermore how can we import codecs into After 6.5 to use?
Here is a link to an article I have recently read on workflow tips and 10 bit renders for After Effects which has been helpful.
http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/06/after-effects-stuff-workflow-tips-and.html
Advice would be much appreciated.
Kind Regards
i-choi

AIC is an Apple QuickTime codec and is only available on Apple platforms. It is an all-iFrame format and is normally used for high def video (HDV and AVCHD). FCE automatically transcodes HDV and AVCHD video into QuickTime/AIC when you capture/ingest the video from your camcorder.
AIC supports 16:9 aspect ratio, 8-bit 4:2:0 and can handle variable data rates. Supported frame sizes/rates are 720p30, 1080i50 and 1080i60. There is a bit more info in this article: Final Cut Pro 5: About HDV and Apple Intermediate Codec.
You asked this question in the Final Cut Express Forum. FCE can't use 10-bit 4:2:2 video, nor can it use Apple ProRes. For 10-bit 4:2:2 suppport you would need ProRes and Final Cut Studio.

Apple Intermediate Codec, Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 where can i get format from.

Apple Intermediate Codec, Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 where can i get the format from.

AIC is an Apple QuickTime codec and is only available on Apple platforms. It is an all-iFrame format and is normally used for high def video (HDV and AVCHD). FCE automatically transcodes HDV and AVCHD video into QuickTime/AIC when you capture/ingest the video from your camcorder.
AIC supports 16:9 aspect ratio, 8-bit 4:2:0 and can handle variable data rates. Supported frame sizes/rates are 720p30, 1080i50 and 1080i60. There is a bit more info in this article: Final Cut Pro 5: About HDV and Apple Intermediate Codec.
You asked this question in the Final Cut Express Forum. FCE can't use 10-bit 4:2:2 video, nor can it use Apple ProRes. For 10-bit 4:2:2 suppport you would need ProRes and Final Cut Studio.

H.264 data rate difference between local and distributed encode

Doing some testing today and noticed this curious behavior with compressor 3.5.1:
Set video encode for a 50 second 1080i uncompressed file to H.264 at 50000 kbps (50 mbps). Audio is 24 bit, 48khz stereo with no compression.
1. Sending the job to "This computer" for a local-only encode gives me a file size of 327 MB
2. Sending the same job to the same computer using distributed encoding gives me a file size of 211 MB
The data rate for the distributed encoded file is about 34 mbps, which isn't what was specified in the encode settings in Compressor. The data rate for the locally encoded file is about 52 mbps, which is what I would expect when the audio is taken into account.
Why the difference? Both encoded files are the same duration, so there aren't any missing frames. They both look good and play well but this is giving me cause for pause.
Also, another curious difference I noticed... The distributed file has the More Info fields populated with useful information in the Finder (dimensions, codecs, duration, channel count, total bit rate). The locally encoded file does not have this information.
-Matt

Hi,
Not sure if this can be corrected whit customizing. Please see SAP note 1065932 for background on currencies in asset accounting. Some explanations on differences in currencies can be found there.
Regards,
Andre

Data Rate from XServe Raid

Hello all,
I have what I thought would be a simple question, but I've found nothing anywhere to answer it.
We have a new G5 Quad and an XServe Raid connected via Fibre Channel with 4 500 GB drive modules. Our Video capture card is the Decklink Extreme SD, but my employer has found a firm that will transfer our Cinealta HDCam tapes at full HD onto hard drives for transfer into our system. He then wants to work in full 10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 HD (1080i) for editing.
I have tried several RAID configurations and used the Decklink Drive Speed Test Utility and found that the fastest data rate I am able to achieve is around 75 MB/sec (using RAID 0), which, according to the utility is only good for about 15 fps at 10 bit 4:2:2 1080.
So my question is this: How many Xserve Raid drive modules striped as RAID 0 would we need to achieve the 182.3 MB/sec data rate (according to the FCP manual) required to edit in full 10 bit 4:2:2 at 1080i at 24-30 fps? Is it simply a matter of doubling the 4 we now have? or is there some other calculation that would be required?
Thanks for the help

14
Figure conservatively that each fully loaded controller (7 drives) in an Xserve RAID will give you 80 to 100 MB/sec. 160 to 200 MB/sec for both controllers fully loaded.
With an Xserve RAID, RAID 5 will give you almost the same bandwidth as RAID 0, so there's insufficient reason to forego the file protection of RAID 5.
Then, when you stripe the two sides together in Disk Utility, you should be getting more than 200 MB/sec, enough for a single stream of uncompressed 1080i, but probably not enough for two streams. It depends.

Digi-beta capture - uncompressed 10-bit or prores hq

starting a project that was shot on digi-beta many moons ago. editing on fcp 7. i'm asumming given the difference in the data rate between uncompressed 10-bit & prores hq that there "must" be some compression loss, but is it enough to make it worthwhile capturing in uncompressed 10-bit. obviously prores hq file sizes are much smaller so that shoud make editing easier. i do want to maintain highest quality possible. final product is dvd & digital download. thanks for any advice.

The ProRes envelope is 10-bit, so you're covered on the biggest difference between digi-beta and all the pedestrian standard def formats. "Normal" ProRes 422 is 42 Mbit/s for SD at 29.97, HQ is 63 Mbit/s. Either should serve well.

DV BITRATE VS DATA RATE...

Hi -- I've a question about DV's bitrate (25Mbps) and data rate (3.6MBps).
(1) What is the relationship between one another?
(2) Does FCP decompress DV's 25Mbps bitrate and recompress when printing to tape?
(3) What of outputting to MPEG2 DVD? Say at 7Mbps bitrate -- does FCP recompress when outputting to this destination type?
(4) What is the BEST way to capture, edit and output (to DVD) for FCP5.1.2 where visual quality is concerned?
Thanks

1. they are the exact same ... DV has a fixed data rate of 25 megabits per second. 1 byte = 8 bits, so the 25Mbps may sometimes be approximated to 3.6MBps
2. yes and no. FCP's DV codec (compressor,decompressor) is used to display the footage to your canvas, however, unless you otherwise affect the footage then it is only the raw original data that is printed to tape.
3. yes ... if the ouptput is a different codec than that of the original then it must be transcoded, hence decompressed using the original codec and recompressed using the target codec
4. capture using the highest possible quality your system can handle (preferably uncompressed), edit natively in that same codec, output for dvd using the highest bitrate MPEG2 your compression/ dvd burning sofware can handle

I have a question about Data Rates.

Hello All.
This is a bit of a noob question I'm sure. I don't think I really understand Data Rates and how it applies to Motion... therefore I'm not even sure what kind of questions to ask. I've been reading up online and thought I would ask some questions here. Thanks to all in advance.
I've never really worried about Data Rates until now. I am creating an Apple Motion piece with about 15 different video clips in it. And 1/2 of them have alpha channels.
What exactly is Data Rate? Is it the rate in which video clip data is read (in bits/second) from the Disc and placed into my screen? In Motion- is the Data Rate for video only? What if the clip has audio? If a HDD is simply a plastic disc with a dye read by "1" laser... how come my computer can pull "2" files off the disc at the same time? Is that what data transfer is all about? Is that were RAM comes into play?
I have crunched my clips as much as I can. They are short clips (10-15seconds each). I've compressed them with the Animation codec to preserve the Alpha channel and sized them proportionally smaller (320x240). This dropped their data rate significantly. I've also taken out any audio that was associated with them.
Is data rate what is slowing my system down?
The data rates are all under 2MBs. Some are as low as 230Kbs. They were MUCH higher. However, my animation still plays VERY slowly.
I'm running a 3GigRam Powerbook Pro 2.33GHz.
I store all my media on a 1TB GRaid Firewire 800 drive. However for portability I'm using a USB 2 smartdisk external drive. I think the speed is 5200rpm.
I'm guessing this all plays into the speed at which motion can function.
If I total my data rate transfer I get somewhere in the vicinity of 11MBs/second. Is that what motion needs for it to play smoothly a 11MBs/second data connection? USB 2.0 is like what 480Mbs/second. So there is no way it's going to play quickly. What if I played it from my hard drive? What is the data rate of my internal HDD?
I guess my overall question is.
#1. Is my thinking correct on all of these topics? Do my bits, bytes and megs make sense. Is my thought process correct?
#2. Barring getting a new machine or buying new hardware. What can I do to speed up this workflow? Working with 15 different video clips is bogging Motion down and becoming frustrating to work with. Even if only 3-4 of the clips are up at a time it bogs things down. Especially if I throw on a glow effect or something.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
-Fraky

Data rate DOES make a difference, but I'd say your real problem has more to do with the fact that you're working on a Powerbook. Motion's real time capabilities derive from the capability of the video card. Not the processor. Some cards do better than others, but laptops are not even recommended for running Motion.
To improve your workflow on a laptop will be limited, but there are a few things that you can try.
Make sure that thumbnails and previews are turned off.
Make sure that you are operating in Draft Mode.
Lower the display resolution to half, or quarter.
Don't expect to be getting real time playback. Treat it more like After Effects.
Compressing your clips into smaller Animations does help because it lowers the data rate, but you're still dealing with the animation codec which is a high data rate codec. Unfortunately, it sounds necessary in your case because you're dealing with alpha channels.
The data rate comes into play with your setup trying to play through your USB drive. USB drives are never recommended for editing or Motion work. Their throughput is not consistent enough for video work. a small FW drive would be better, though your real problem as I said is the Powerbook.
If you must work on the powerbook, then don't expect real-time playback. Instead, build your animation, step through it, and do RAM previews to view sections in real time.
I hope this helps.
Andy

In Aperture 3.4 Export Slideshow to a video, what are the actual Data Rates used for "Best", "High", ... "Least" quality for a given resolution?

My Photo website host (SmugMug) converts uploaded video files at a specific Data Rate in Mbps before installing them. I would like to compress my slideshow video file to the same rate before I upload it to reduce file size and upload time. When I choose the "Custom" setting for an Export, I can choose 1 of the 5 Quality choices and see the estimated file size. But, I cannot know what the actual Data Rate is until after I wait a long time to export the slideshow (hours for a long slideshow) and then examine the resulting file in QuickTime Player's Inspector.

I ran a few tests using a short slideshow (16 images, 1:23 mins/secs) at 1,728 x 1,080 resolution to find out the bit rates for various quality level choices.
Export setting              Quality          Resulting bit rate          File Size
HD 1080p                    default                20.68 Mbps              214.8 MBytes
Custom                       Best                   20.49                       212.8
Custom                       High                     6.25                         65.0
Custom                       Medium                3.97                         41.3
However, I don't know if those bit rates will be the same for different length slideshows or for different output resolutions. My SmugMug host site uses an 8.0 Mbps rate for a 1728 x 1080 video file. If I choose Custom/Best, my file will be almost 3 times bigger and much higher quality than necessary, but if I choose Custom/High, my file will be smaller and lower quality than SmugMug's converted version.
I have installed MPEG StreamClip that will let me convert an exported Aperture slideshow video file, and StreamClip allows me to choose a specific bit rate in Mbps. But, I would prefer not having to do a 2 step process (Export from Aperture, then convert in StreamClip).

Apple tv slow data rate

HI Guys, i have a problem with one of my Apple TV. I currently have 2 Apple TV and one is having a slow data rate. I have Apple AirPort Time Capsule 2TB (latest gen) with most devices running on wireless connection and I checked the data rate (from the base station) on one Apple TV is showing 65Mbps and on another its showing between 6-13Mbps. The signal reception on both AppleTV is excellent. I have tried unplugging, restarting and restoring the AppleTV with no luck. The model number on this AppleTV is A1427. Any other ideas?

Hi arustandi,
Thanks for the question. If I understand correctly, one of the Apple TV's has a slow connection. I see you have already done a bit of troubleshooting. I would recommend that you read this article, it may be able to help with the slow connection.
Wi-Fi and Bluetooth: Potential sources of wireless interference - Apple Support
Thanks for using Apple Support Communities.
Have a great day,
Mario

ThinkPad Bluetooth with Enhanced Data Rate Software Problem

I'm having a weird issue. I use a X200t tablet with Windows 7 Profession 64-bit.
Apparently my current "ThinkPad Bluetooth with Enhanced Data Rate Software" is Version. 6.2.1.2900.
Thinkvantage System Update wants me to download and install Version 6.2.1.3100.
However, it tries and I get Error 1935 and it rolls back. Now when I start windows I get an alert about BTTray.exe not loading.
Of course I searched this problem, but it seems to be some ancient thing (years old) and I've never had a problem before with any of the Bluetooth updates.
I did notice that in past versions people said when they tried to uninstall the old version and install the new one, it just wiped their hard drive. I don't want to risk that so I thought I'd check here if anyone knew what was going on.
Thanks!

Hi
Welcome to Lenovo Community
You can directly download and install this package . It will not do any harm to any other component of Operating System
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/detail.page?LegacyDocID=MIGR-70042
Hope This Helps
Cheers!!!

Video (or Video + Audio) Data Rate

Wondered if anyone here might know of a software utility that has the ability to scan QuickTime compatible files and either display the video (or video + audio) data rate excursion or, as an alternative, graph the instantaneous variation in the data rate over time.

Apple +I (show info) in QT player will show you the framerate and bitrate while playing.
Thanks for your suggestion, Rick. However, I must point out that the data rate so displayed is simply the total average for the entire clip and not the instantaneous (i.e., constantly changing) variance with time. Preliminary observations tend to indicate the single pass H.264 algorithm begings roughly 10% under the requested data rate and quickly settles very near the target. The multipass algorithm, on the other hand, appears to begin in the vicinity of 300% above the targeed data rate and monotonically decreases throughout the remainder of the movie clip. So much for a quick qualitative analysis based on observations during the actualy encoding process.
What I now wish to do is actually perform a bit of quantitative analysis and, based on those results, correlate actual data rates with the ability of a given H.264 multipass file to sync to an iPod. Basically, I am trying to determine whether or not a user data rate input is used as a comparator during the initial phase of multipass H.264 coding and, if so, how it is implemented. (I.e., how are the delta values handled -- linearly, exponentially, etc.) In addition, I wish to compare QT v7.0.3 with v7.0.4 clips to determine why the latter are less iPod compatible. Too, there remains a question as to whether or not any data rate information is now embedded in the clips themselves since various work arounds tried (i.e., clipping file lengths) have proven unsuccessful.

HD-SDI data rate (uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2)

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