Importing PS tranparencies and Rich Black

Hi
Im having a problem importing photoshop files containing transparent backgrounds.
Evertime I place one on a black background and publish ,the background appears dark grey
Output all blacks as rich blacks is defined
and my PDF present is Press quailty
Indesign cs3
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

The user has sent me the files, and her settings, and I think I've finally found the problem.
You are printing to PDF, which is OK, but exporting is simpler, and less prone, I think, to problems. I was finally able to reproduce the rich black by printing to PDF and using the "standard" joboptions in the printer properties (though it wouldn't be limited to just that particular option set). Those options do an internal conversion to RGB, which is then getting converted back to rich black.
Make sure you click the setup button in the print dialog to access the printer driver, then change the default settings to something that either converts to CMYK or preserves color, and you should be fine, or export and set the color in the export dialog.
Peter

Similar Messages

Semi-transparent block, pure black and rich black problems

Hi!
I'm new to inDesign, and I'm currently designing a book cover, for which I need some special effects. I'll try to explain as best as I can.
The background is rich black, on top of it I have a text in white (all over it). I applied a block with 80% opacity, in rich black color. I cut out some shapes in it. The point was to have the text in dark gray all over the book cover, but in white in the places where I have the shapes.
Everything is working exactly like I want, but a friend of mine told me if I apply rich black over white, I'll get a kind of magenta gray, so I have to apply pure 100 K to avoid that and get the dark gray I want. I tried that, and of course, applying some pure black block on top of my rich black cover gives all the cover a "grayish black" look. How can I work around that? I tried setting my semi-transparent block to "darken", but it didn't change anything.
I put the links to the pdf, I hope that's ok.
That's the one with rich black: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68049919/coverlayout_print_richblack.pdf
and that's how it looks with the pure black: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68049919/coverlayout_print.pdf
Thanks a lot!

There's no need to use transparency to create your background text color—just make a text frame filled with the rich black then select the type and fill it with an 80% tint of the rich black swatch or any other gray mix. Like this:
The text frame selected with its fill showing in the Colors panel:
Here the text is selected and the Colors panel shows the text fill as an 80% tint of the rich black. There's no transparency in this case.
In general it's bad practice to use transparency when you can get the same effect with color fills.
Also if you are worried about the neutrality of the gray check with your printer on whether the gray text should be 4-color (your 80% tint) or straight black (95% black).
The accuracy of the InDesign softproof depends on an accurate monitor profile and the assigned CMYK profile (Edit>Assign Profiles...). The assigned CMYK profile affects the preview including the profiled gray balance. For example the default SWOP CMYK profile previews your 4-color dark gray bluer and as a lighter value than US Sheetfed.
The preview of your 85% rich black mix with different CMYK asignments

100K Black and Rich Black problem

When I create something in AI and save it as PDF document, all Blacks in AI
I see as Rich Black, but when I open this pdf in Acrobat8, all blacks are
displayed as 100K Blacks..
Why this is happening?
I'm usign AI CS3 and Acrobat 8.
Preferences in AI:
On Screen: Display All Blacks as Rich Black
Printing/Exporting: Output All Blacks as Rich Black
Thanks in advance,
Roman

The preferences of "Printing/Exporting: Output All Blacks as Rich Black" is applicable only for printing to RGB printers like the desktop non-postscript printers or when exporting to RGB file formats.
When you save as PDF with [Illustrator Default] preset, you actually create a CMYK PDF. Acrobat has no such "Rich Black/Accurate Black" preference and hence displays "light" black.
If you create an RGB PDF by selecting Convert to Destination and Destination as an RGB profile,say, sRGB from the Output panel of Save Adobe PDF dialog, Acrobat should display your desired jet black.

Rich black needs to be designed?

In ID (CS5) preferences, it offers an option of "Accurate blacks" or "Rich blacks". As discussed before, "Accurate blacks" are 100%K and "Rich blacks" are a combination of CMYK. Am I assuming correctly that if you have designed a black box in InDesign and want it to print with a rich black, as well as choosing the "Rich black" option in Preferences, you also need to 'make' the black out of CMYK (such as 60C, 50M, 40Y, and 100K). You can not just choose the 'Print with Rich black' preference thinking it will change all of your blacks into rich black mixtures. Is that correct?

BobLevine wrote:
FWIW, my opinion is that anyone doing work destined for press should have both setting at accurate. For press you need to create and assign a rich black swatch.
I'm a print guy, and I disagree with Bob on this. I keep my dispaly set to accurate, becasue that affects what I see on screen, but the output setting has no effect whatever on exported PDF, which is the preferred file for handoff, so in essence the setting is pretty irrelevant for press.
That said, it DOES affect PRINTING to PDF using composite grayscale as the destination. If set to output accurately, 100%K is reserved in the output for rich blacks, and your 100% K type will print as a screen to reflect that it is lighter than a rich black. Small matter, and if you don't print to PDF or desktop printers, it really doesn't matter.

True black converting to rich black when importing one specific PDF

I am using InDesign CC. When importing one particular CMYK PDF file into my document, the black text is converting to 4-color rich black. I have InDesign 5.0 on another computer. Following the same procedure on that computer, the text remains 100% K. My settings are the same, as far as I can tell.
Other designers across the country using this same ad have no problem. The text remains 100% K. We are all using InDesign, but I am the only one using InDesign CC.
I do not have this problem with any other ads (so far), but I have been using CC for only two months.
Any ideas?

It has been over a month since I walked through her settings with her, Rob, and the minute details have been replaced in my brain. I do know that she built the ad in CMYK, used 100%K for text, left the layers unflattened, ensured she had a background layer. In her PDF output settings, she converted to destination, and her destination profile was CMYK SWOP 2. I had her try CMYK web uncoated v2, as well. I don't recall what her overall color setting was set to (North America General Purpose? Custom? Again, nothing that alarmed me).
Sorry I don't have more details. She isn't interested in helping me investigate this further, since I am the only one with difficulties.
As far as changing the assigned profile within InDesign, yes, I tried that. It didn't help. I believe I exhaused all possible combinations for output.
Good to hear (in a sick sort of way) about the problems with Acrobat. I had read about Acrobat having difficulties with preserving numbers, so I wasn't as concerned about the output preview. But on the other hand, I wasn't sure if it might be an "a-ha" symptom for this particular PDF.
So many possibilities, so little time. Your explanations have helped my stress tremendously. Many thanks!

Imported RAW files convert to black and white

I have LightRoom 1.4.1 as well as LightRoom beta installed.
Intel iMac 20, OS 10.5.2
Camera is Canon 40D.
I imported images from a Compact Flash card into LightRoom beta. They downloaded as they should, but then without my touching mouse or keyboard they, in random order, changed from color images to black and white. I deleted them all, exited the beta, imported the same images into LightRoom 1.4.1. Same thing happened.
I tried the Convert to DNG option, and they all imported as black and white without a preliminary color mode.
There are no develop steps set in the import dialog.
I imported them using the Canon import program, and they remained color images as they should. However, if I located them with the finder, though Preview showed them in color, Open With Lightroom or Photoshop CS3 brought them up as black and white.
I'm stumped.
There were several jpeg files on the same CF; they imported and behaved as they should.
Arthur

So I downloaded all the upgrades and re-installed them; rebooted, murmured incantations, re-imported photos.
Same results--black and white photos, rendering the computer and my software useless for processing.
Then I disconnected the card reader from my powered external USB hub, and plugged it directly into the iMac. All problems disappeared. Everything works as it should. Took a while to figure out, but my problem is solved.
Arthur

When importing photos from my iPhone black boxes appear in place of random photos in the library and in Photostream.

When importing photos from my iPhone black boxes appear in place of random photos in the iPhoto library and in Photostream. It has no apparent pattern, the photos are just blank. It's not just icons, when I go to edit the photos externally in Photoshop it opens an image filled with nothing but black.
This is more than annoying. It's effectively deleting photos I'm taking on vacation and so forth.
Anyone?

The ! turns up when iPhoto loses the connection between the thumbnail in the iPhoto Window and the file it represents.
Option 1
Back Up and try rebuild the library: hold down the command and option (or alt) keys while launching iPhoto. Use the resulting dialogue to rebuild. Choose to Repair Database. If that doesn't help, then try again, this time using Rebuild Database.
If that fails:
Option 2
Download iPhoto Library Manager and use its rebuild function. (In Library Manager it's the FIle -> Rebuild command)
This will create an entirely new library. It will then copy (or try to) your photos and all the associated metadata and versions to this new Library, and arrange it as close as it can to what you had in the damaged Library. It does this based on information it finds in the iPhoto sharing mechanism - but that means that things not shared won't be there, so no slideshows, books or calendars, for instance - but it should get all your events, albums and keywords, faces and places back.
Because this process creates an entirely new library and leaves your old one untouched, it is non-destructive, and if you're not happy with the results you can simply return to your old one.
Regards
TD

Rich black and pure white opacity overlays...

Hey guys,
I'm trying to design a business card that uses a subtle radial gradient from rich black (100, 40, 100, 40) to dark grey. Something like this actually:
http://s3.envato.com/files/156075.jpg
Anyways, I'm doint the gradient in photoshop because I figure the gradient will be smoother than doing it natively in Illustrator or Indesign. Anyways, when create the gradient, the dark grey appears redish because of the multi ink in the black. When I create in in RGB using a 0, 0, 0 value for black, and 230, 230, 230 value for the grey, it obviously renders fine. When I convert that RGB to CMYK, it still looks great. I rounded up the CMYK values that had decimals, and it looks good.
Is this really bad practice to achieve a CMYK gradient? I imagine it is, but it's only going to an online digital printer. Just curious what you're thoughts are on this workflow.

I think you are over complicating your workflow and relying too much on how the gradient is rendered on-screen. The final determinator is the output device and how it is "printed", which involves the RIP, haltone screen frequency, press, and paper. The techology is very sophisticated and really makes full use of your understanding and expectations, not as a consumer, but of a professional. I see absolutely no reason for generating the gradient in Photoshop and bouncing to and from RGB. The bitmap is actually going to limit your file's effectiveness. And, I see no reason why a gradient will display with a mid or low end color cast if it is built properly. That could be your display and/or the file's preview. Your sample exhibits a very subtle "Gray-to-Gray" blend, so I wonder if you'd consider lower numbers of your gradient's start ( i.e., 60C, 24M, 60Y, 24K ) and end with 6C, 2.4M, 6Y, 2.4K. Also, because you are using 100C, 40M, 100Y, and 40K, your so-called "Rich Black" is going to print on the warm side and is not balanced in order to print neutral. So, it could be that, as you ramp down from your original 100C, 24M, 100Y, 40K, the mids and highlights could render as brown or reddish brown. A good way to check these numbers and how they print is to get an actual print ( book ) of process color percentages in different levels. Check sites like publishingperfection.com for reference process color books. That way, you can have more confidence in your percentages and actually see how they print using different percentage scales. Now, you did reach your final destination whereas you got what appears to be acceptable color. So, please share what your final percentages are and how the deviate from your original.

Art Brushes appear grey, and not Rich Black.

Art brushes are showing a grey version of what should be a Rich Black RGB 0, 0, 0,. Furthermore, expanding the art brush stroke and sampling the color shows the strokes "Black" is actually: 32,32,32, pre-expansion the RGB sample shows the stroke is 0,0,0.
Color Mode=RGB
Print Proof=NO
Document =RGB
Display all Blacks, print all Blacks=Rich Black
Options for Art Brush show art brush swatch is Rich Black but using eyedropper (within brush options window) and sampling preview stroke CHANGES swatch preview from Rich Black to Grey. (see attachments)
image 1 (below): Art brush stroke (greyish), over top of pen tool shape (rich Black)
image 2 (below): RGB of stroke
image 3 (below): RGB of stroke after converting to shape.
Image 4 (below—art brush options): Art Brush Before sampling using colorization...
Image 5 (below—art brush options): Art Brush sampled using colorization..

Try this.
Use one of the Chalk and Charcoal brushes, like Charcoal - Feather.
Set the colorization method to NONE.
Make a mark. Take a sample reading with the Eyedropper tool. The RGB value will be, 32,32,32 (or some place around there) but defiantly not 0,0,0.
Now EXPAND the stroke and take a reading of the shapes color. Same values.
It is NOT RICH BLACK.
I DO NOT understand emils directions.

CMYK "Rich Black" information and Tips

Hello folks,
I have been trying to create a "Rich Black" swatch to use with my Adobe Illustrator creations, but after a lot of online research, I find that there are many diffrent opinions out there. I figure I start this discussion, so that all of the information that we all share, can be available for a lot of Adobe users on this forum.
1. What is your favorite CMYK "Rich Black" pertentage formula?
2. When shoud be use "Rich Black" and when should we avoid it?
3. Would you use "Rich Black" for digital prints?
4. What else can you tell us about your experiences with Adobe Illustrator artwork and using or not using "Rich Black"?
I am hoping that this healthy discussion will be able to help many people for years to come.
Cheers,
Bill

As far as I know the Pantone inks can be used only on offset printing technology but most of the jobs for offset printing is from CMYK separations. It will be forbiddingly expensive to print images like photos containing a full gamut of colors with hundreds of Pantone inks while they can be printed with only four CMYK inks. And for a lot of images it will be simply impossible to print only with Pantone inks because although the Pantone colors have wider gamut (much more saturated) colors than process colors, Pantone doesn’t have that much colors to cover all colors available in the CMYK color space.
Prints with Pantone inks will be less expensive if printing with less than four colors, which is suitable for only a small fraction of all images being printed. But if printed with one color and it is black, in my experience the K ink from the four CMYK inks is less expensive than the Pantone black which of course will be rich - they put in the ink a lot of colors and they charge more for that but it is worth it. However, one Pantone color black or not will be less expensive than two runs from the CMYK colors.
Digital presses do not use Pantone inks, but with the ever improving technology some have very wide gamut producing much more saturated colors than the CMYK offset press and thus they can simulate more closely and often exactly a lot of Pantone colors using inks produced for the digital printer.

RGB CMYK PDF EXPORT.(colour conversion) Keeping your colours vibrant and your blacks black.

Ive been tearing my hair out for the best part of 14 hours trying to figure out how to keep the closest possible conversion for working with images(rgb in photoshop) right the way through a work flow until exporting to print (having used the image in Indesign). Here is the process I have been trying to get right.
1) working with RGB photo images in photoshop and converting them to CMYK (whilst holding on to as much colour as poss)
2) Importing them to Indesign and retaining the correct colours while working with them)
3) Exporting to high quality print and having all your colours stay 100% the same as you saw them within indesign.
I believe I have the solution so I posted my settings below to see if its the best way of doing things and to help others who might be having the same problems.
The problem
The problem is that there are many different colour models/profiles (both in RGB and CMYK) and each program can effect how the next one handles and stores colour. It can become frustrating knowing where to go in order to set the settings correctly as the combination of things to consider can make it confusing.
I understand many other people have similar problems and finding RGB blacks come out as grey. CMYK spaces get converted from one type to another either from one program to the next or even as things move around one program (causing all sorts of wonderful,colour errors) Plus you have imported colour profiles, working colour profiles and export profiles. All of which can interact and effect each other) So getting it all consistent is key other wise colours change and get washed out.   Especially vibrant colours like greens and blues. they fade etc.
Through sheer trial and error and perciverance I found a combination of settings that worked well for me.
Since I am not an expert I wanted to post up my settings to:
1) see if this is the best way of doing things.
2) Other people may find them useful if they had the same problems I had,
The Solution
In photoshop
Save the photoshop image in CMYK by selecting:
Edit > Convert to prfile.
(in destination space)
select: Euroscale Coated v2   (I think this holds the colours the truest of all CMYK colour formats.)
(in conversion options)
- Engine: Adobe ACE
- Intent: Perceptual.
- Check Use black point Compensation.
(leave all else unchecked)
Save the image ready to place in indesign (place rather than copy and paste.).
In Indesign
edit > colour settings   (make sure you click on the advanced tick box to open more options)
- Working space: =
- RGB: sRGB IEC....
- CMYK Euroscale coated v2
- RGB & CMYK convert to working space.
- Engine Adobe ACE
- Perceptual
- Use black point compensation
edit > Assign profiles
- RGB profile. > Assign current workspace: sRGB IE
- CMYK > Assign current work space Euroscale Coated V2
- Solid colour intent : preceptual
- Default image intent
- After blending intent: Perceptual.
edit > convert to profile. (use similar as above).
edit > Preferences > Apprearance of black
- on screen / export : Display all blacks as enriched black
- Priniting and export : Display all blacks as enriched black
Overprint: (not checked)
------ when exporting to PDF ----------
File > Export
in GENERAL TAB
- Adobe PDF preset: High quality print.
- Standard (drop down menu): PDF/X-42008
- Compatability: Acrobat 5 PDF1:4
in OUTPUT
- COlour conversion: Convert to destination
- Destination: Working CMYK Euroscale Coated v2
in PDF/X
- Output intent profile name: Working CMYK - Euroscale Coated v2
also:
If you are having problems with fill blacks not coming out as proper black then use registration instead of black from the swatch panel.
The above may seem either obvious to most of you or possibly not the best way of doing things but since the results worked for me and I found them tough to arrive at, it may be of use to others hence my post.
I would like your feedback on this process, have I done something wrong / could do better? If so please let me know. I am keen to improve.

I would copy and paste into InDesign forum. Text should stay 100% black. Any other black (like solid boxes or thick lines), I usually use a rich black swatch I created at 40/40/40/100. Looks 10 times better than just 100% black.

Placing native Indesign files - rich black

Guys,
I've been moving over to placing Indesign files for the adverts I have created into my magazine layout rather than exporting to PDF and placing them.
However, to my horror, I have discovered that if you do this indesign will output overprinting 100% black as rich black.
Why does it do this? Can I stop it?
If I take the advert file and place it, the black is rich, if I export the exact same indesign file as PDF and place that then the black stays 100% overprinting.

Confirmed!
The lesson here is when you are importing native InDesign files into InDesign, you must ensure the working spaces are the same, or convert policy as above.
Thanks guys.

How to achieve rich black in exported PDF?

InDesign CS5 on Snow Leopard. I have black set to display and output accurately (not rich black). Color settings are North America General Purpose 2. Proof Setup is set to Document CMYK U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2, so that I can see on the screen as accurately as possible what it will look like when printed.
A large, mostly black image covers my first page; it's an imported PSD. When I view the image in PhotoShop, it shows as 'rich black' - you know, on-screen 100% black. But when looking at it in InDesign, it appears a dull grey. It also appears a dull grey when exporting to PDF or printing it.
How do I get it to go to PDF and to print as crisp, perfect, 100% dark rich black?
If possible, I'd like it to appear on my screen roughly as it will in the exported PDF and the printed page.
Thanks!

Peter,
It isn't quite that simple. If you export PDF/X-4 or any PDF without color conversion at export, you may find that the subsequent printing system does in fact make some assumptions about R=G=B colors really being the equivalent of DeviceCMYK (0,0,0,K). This is often done at the RIP to resolve the problem of printing office documents, many of which produce only RGB colors where R=G=B is grayscale and the endpoints of (0,0,0) and (255,255,255) are the equivalent of DeviceCMYK (0,0,0,1) and (0,0,0,0) respectively.
Thus, my recommendation is that for any real control of black output using graphic arts software, do not rely on conversions from RGB to either give you pure black / grayscale or for that matter any rich black. It is too much of a crapshoot depending upon the rest of your workflow.
- Dov

Blacks are becoming rich blacks when exporting to PDF in CS2

Im having a funny problem I have never noticed before where when I export to PDF from InDesign CS2 all blacks turn to rich blacks. I am verifying this by opening it up in Acrobat and viewing the separations.
I have narrowed it down to a single setting. I can replicate it by selecting the "High Quality Print" preset and then in the Profile Inclusion Policy selecting "Include All Profiles" then exporting.
This shouldn't be... Colour conversion is turned off so the PDF compiler should not be modifying the colour... just sending a tag along with it.

I understand the processes of colour management and in no way am I trying to turn it off. Can somebody please try it out and see if my original problem is happening to them. I'm only asking about one variable... The Profile Inclusion Policy.
I understand "No colour conversion" option does not mean turning off colour management... Its keeps all source files in their original colour space. I know this stuff.
I also know there is not a lot of different between the hight quality print preset and the press quality other than the press preset has the Convert to Destination option set for colour conversion which forces objects colour to that of the destination profile. However this is not important... And please dont argue about this point because I'm only looking for a solution to one problem and I'm not a novice.
I want to know why when I select include all profiles the black is converted to a rich black?

PDF creation causes rich black colors to shift

I'm designing a book cover. There are three main areas: front, back and spine. Each area has specified the default "black" color in the swatches panel. This color uses 100% K in the CMYK color space. In the preferences panel, under "appearance of black", I have checked to print and display blacks as rich black. Everthing looks great on the Indesign file. My blacks are as specified. Everything has been double-checked on the swatch panel to be set to this black color, which is a non-editable color (always remains 100% K on the CMYK setting).It has been displaying just fine on the file, as a rich black, no color shifting ever whatsoever until doing the following:
When I make a PDF using the "Export" window, I select PDF/x-1A as my printer specifies. I create the PDF, and open it, only to see that my blacks are being shifted to a shade of deep brownish black.
On the first few attempts, only two of the three areas specified above did this. ON the next attempts, all three areas look the same. This is weird. I'm very disappointed with the strange issues present in Indesign, as I am trained with Quarkxpress and find it to work flawlessly in comparison, especially with something like color output.
What am I doing wrong?
When I change settings, for example, change the color management to "none" or leave it in the default for the PDFx/1-a, it doesn't make any difference in this glitch in the output.
Help!
Thanks.

The Appearance of Black setting to print all blacks as rich black ONLY affects printing or exporting to RGB devices (essentially printing to desktop printers or PRINTING to PDF with Composite RGB or Composite Grayscale selected). It has no effect at all on EXPORT to PDF.
>I changed my 100%K only blacks to genuine rich blacks of 100%K 25%C 25%Y 25%M and the problem is corrected.
You said this is a book cover. That implies that the output will be printed, not viewed on screen. For printed output it is ESSENTIAL that you set blacks to display accurately. You should also turn on Overprint Preview when judging color. You'll probably get away with your rich black in any type over 12 points or so where it might be applied, but it's generally not a great idea to use rich black for type in small sizes. Rich blacks also generally use slightly more cyan than yellow and magenta to compensate for ink impurities.
Do you have a high-end monitor? Is your monitor calibrated and profiled using a colorimeter? If not, you can forget what you see on screen. The odds that it is anywhere near accurate are similar to the odds of winning the lottery. Are you using the same color space in Acrobat as you are in ID? If you change the color space, the appearance of your colors will change.
When you export to PDF/X-1a you are converting everything to CMYK using a target color space. By default the conversion option is set to preserve numbers. If your imported art has an embedded profile that differs from the destination, that will be honored and color numbers will be changed to preserve the appearance of color, as much as possible taking into account different gamuts, and untagged imported art, along with native objects will all be presumed to be in the current working space in ID, and cmyk numbers for those objects will be preserved. If the destination space differs from the working space, thew appearance of these colors will shift, but 100% K native objects will continue to be 100% K in the PDF. A conversion to a destination that differs from the working space WITHOUT preserving numbers will result in 100% K being changed to a 4-color mix that mimics the appearance of 100% K output in the working space.
Knowing the destination space in advance is vital if you are doing a CMYK conversion. CMYK profiles are "device dependent" and CMYK-to-CMYK conversions are destructive, both in terms of potential loss of color (and you don't gain by going from a smaller to a larger gamut space) and conversion of solid colors to 4-color mixes which is particularly problematic for black type and thin rules.

Importing PS tranparencies and Rich Black

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