CMYK "Rich Black" information and Tips

Hello folks,
I have been trying to create a "Rich Black" swatch to use with my Adobe Illustrator creations, but after a lot of online research, I find that there are many diffrent opinions out there. I figure I start this discussion, so that all of the information that we all share, can be available for a lot of Adobe users on this forum.
1. What is your favorite CMYK "Rich Black" pertentage formula?
2. When shoud be use "Rich Black" and when should we avoid it?
3. Would you use "Rich Black" for digital prints?
4. What else can you tell us about your experiences with Adobe Illustrator artwork and using or not using "Rich Black"?
I am hoping that this healthy discussion will be able to help many people for years to come.
Cheers,
Bill

As far as I know the Pantone inks can be used only on offset printing technology but most of the jobs for offset printing is from CMYK separations. It will be forbiddingly expensive to print images like photos containing a full gamut of colors with hundreds of Pantone inks while they can be printed with only four CMYK inks. And for a lot of images it will be simply impossible to print only with Pantone inks because although the Pantone colors have wider gamut (much more saturated) colors than process colors, Pantone doesn’t have that much colors to cover all colors available in the CMYK color space.
Prints with Pantone inks will be less expensive if printing with less than four colors, which is suitable for only a small fraction of all images being printed. But if printed with one color and it is black, in my experience the K ink from the four CMYK inks is less expensive than the Pantone black which of course will be rich - they put in the ink a lot of colors and they charge more for that but it is worth it. However, one Pantone color black or not will be less expensive than two runs from the CMYK colors.
Digital presses do not use Pantone inks, but with the ever improving technology some have very wide gamut producing much more saturated colors than the CMYK offset press and thus they can simulate more closely and often exactly a lot of Pantone colors using inks produced for the digital printer.

Similar Messages

Semi-transparent block, pure black and rich black problems

Hi!
I'm new to inDesign, and I'm currently designing a book cover, for which I need some special effects. I'll try to explain as best as I can.
The background is rich black, on top of it I have a text in white (all over it). I applied a block with 80% opacity, in rich black color. I cut out some shapes in it. The point was to have the text in dark gray all over the book cover, but in white in the places where I have the shapes.
Everything is working exactly like I want, but a friend of mine told me if I apply rich black over white, I'll get a kind of magenta gray, so I have to apply pure 100 K to avoid that and get the dark gray I want. I tried that, and of course, applying some pure black block on top of my rich black cover gives all the cover a "grayish black" look. How can I work around that? I tried setting my semi-transparent block to "darken", but it didn't change anything.
I put the links to the pdf, I hope that's ok.
That's the one with rich black: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68049919/coverlayout_print_richblack.pdf
and that's how it looks with the pure black: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68049919/coverlayout_print.pdf
Thanks a lot!

There's no need to use transparency to create your background text color—just make a text frame filled with the rich black then select the type and fill it with an 80% tint of the rich black swatch or any other gray mix. Like this:
The text frame selected with its fill showing in the Colors panel:
Here the text is selected and the Colors panel shows the text fill as an 80% tint of the rich black. There's no transparency in this case.
In general it's bad practice to use transparency when you can get the same effect with color fills.
Also if you are worried about the neutrality of the gray check with your printer on whether the gray text should be 4-color (your 80% tint) or straight black (95% black).
The accuracy of the InDesign softproof depends on an accurate monitor profile and the assigned CMYK profile (Edit>Assign Profiles...). The assigned CMYK profile affects the preview including the profiled gray balance. For example the default SWOP CMYK profile previews your 4-color dark gray bluer and as a lighter value than US Sheetfed.
The preview of your 85% rich black mix with different CMYK asignments

100K Black and Rich Black problem

When I create something in AI and save it as PDF document, all Blacks in AI
I see as Rich Black, but when I open this pdf in Acrobat8, all blacks are
displayed as 100K Blacks..
Why this is happening?
I'm usign AI CS3 and Acrobat 8.
Preferences in AI:
On Screen: Display All Blacks as Rich Black
Printing/Exporting: Output All Blacks as Rich Black
Thanks in advance,
Roman

The preferences of "Printing/Exporting: Output All Blacks as Rich Black" is applicable only for printing to RGB printers like the desktop non-postscript printers or when exporting to RGB file formats.
When you save as PDF with [Illustrator Default] preset, you actually create a CMYK PDF. Acrobat has no such "Rich Black/Accurate Black" preference and hence displays "light" black.
If you create an RGB PDF by selecting Convert to Destination and Destination as an RGB profile,say, sRGB from the Output panel of Save Adobe PDF dialog, Acrobat should display your desired jet black.

Rich black when converting RGB to CMYK

I'm working in an older version of PhotoShop (7) but any help on the topic would definitely help.
My problem is that I am converting RGB native images to CMYK and my Key (Black) comes out rich, contains equal levels of CMY and K, instead of true black, only k.
Currently my way around this is to do the standard convert to profile CMYK and with my path selected to the section I would like to be true black simply turn off all CM and Y channels and re-save the image but this is a little labor intensive.
Is there a way that I can go straight from RGB to CMYK and achieve true black without alteration?

Yes, there is. You can use a CMYK setup or ICC CMYK profile that uses Maximum black generation. Unfortunately, that will almost always hose anything photographic in your image.
Is it typographical elements that are becoming four color? If so, then they should be done in a page layout program where they can be rasterized separately from the photographic image. If it is type you're worried about, is it large type or small? If you have to set large type in Ps, then it's probably fine to let it run four color.
If it were me and I had to do everything in Ps, I would probably make two conversions of the file to CMYK - one with a standard black generation and one with Max K. I would then select the black you want from the max K version and paste into the K channel of the "normal" document, and then use that as a selection to delete from the other three channels.
A third way is to do type in Ps and leave the type as a vector type layer, then save the file out as a Photoshop PDF, which is then placed in a layout app. or just sent to the printer through his RIP. That should work too, but there are too many places for things to wrong for my taste.

Rich black and pure white opacity overlays...

Hey guys,
I'm trying to design a business card that uses a subtle radial gradient from rich black (100, 40, 100, 40) to dark grey. Something like this actually:
http://s3.envato.com/files/156075.jpg
Anyways, I'm doint the gradient in photoshop because I figure the gradient will be smoother than doing it natively in Illustrator or Indesign. Anyways, when create the gradient, the dark grey appears redish because of the multi ink in the black. When I create in in RGB using a 0, 0, 0 value for black, and 230, 230, 230 value for the grey, it obviously renders fine. When I convert that RGB to CMYK, it still looks great. I rounded up the CMYK values that had decimals, and it looks good.
Is this really bad practice to achieve a CMYK gradient? I imagine it is, but it's only going to an online digital printer. Just curious what you're thoughts are on this workflow.

I think you are over complicating your workflow and relying too much on how the gradient is rendered on-screen. The final determinator is the output device and how it is "printed", which involves the RIP, haltone screen frequency, press, and paper. The techology is very sophisticated and really makes full use of your understanding and expectations, not as a consumer, but of a professional. I see absolutely no reason for generating the gradient in Photoshop and bouncing to and from RGB. The bitmap is actually going to limit your file's effectiveness. And, I see no reason why a gradient will display with a mid or low end color cast if it is built properly. That could be your display and/or the file's preview. Your sample exhibits a very subtle "Gray-to-Gray" blend, so I wonder if you'd consider lower numbers of your gradient's start ( i.e., 60C, 24M, 60Y, 24K ) and end with 6C, 2.4M, 6Y, 2.4K. Also, because you are using 100C, 40M, 100Y, and 40K, your so-called "Rich Black" is going to print on the warm side and is not balanced in order to print neutral. So, it could be that, as you ramp down from your original 100C, 24M, 100Y, 40K, the mids and highlights could render as brown or reddish brown. A good way to check these numbers and how they print is to get an actual print ( book ) of process color percentages in different levels. Check sites like publishingperfection.com for reference process color books. That way, you can have more confidence in your percentages and actually see how they print using different percentage scales. Now, you did reach your final destination whereas you got what appears to be acceptable color. So, please share what your final percentages are and how the deviate from your original.

Importing PS tranparencies and Rich Black

Hi
Im having a problem importing photoshop files containing transparent backgrounds.
Evertime I place one on a black background and publish ,the background appears dark grey
Output all blacks as rich blacks is defined
and my PDF present is Press quailty
Indesign cs3
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

The user has sent me the files, and her settings, and I think I've finally found the problem.
You are printing to PDF, which is OK, but exporting is simpler, and less prone, I think, to problems. I was finally able to reproduce the rich black by printing to PDF and using the "standard" joboptions in the printer properties (though it wouldn't be limited to just that particular option set). Those options do an internal conversion to RGB, which is then getting converted back to rich black.
Make sure you click the setup button in the print dialog to access the printer driver, then change the default settings to something that either converts to CMYK or preserves color, and you should be fine, or export and set the color in the export dialog.
Peter

Art Brushes appear grey, and not Rich Black.

Art brushes are showing a grey version of what should be a Rich Black RGB 0, 0, 0,. Furthermore, expanding the art brush stroke and sampling the color shows the strokes "Black" is actually: 32,32,32, pre-expansion the RGB sample shows the stroke is 0,0,0.
Color Mode=RGB
Print Proof=NO
Document =RGB
Display all Blacks, print all Blacks=Rich Black
Options for Art Brush show art brush swatch is Rich Black but using eyedropper (within brush options window) and sampling preview stroke CHANGES swatch preview from Rich Black to Grey. (see attachments)
image 1 (below): Art brush stroke (greyish), over top of pen tool shape (rich Black)
image 2 (below): RGB of stroke
image 3 (below): RGB of stroke after converting to shape.
Image 4 (below—art brush options): Art Brush Before sampling using colorization...
Image 5 (below—art brush options): Art Brush sampled using colorization..

Try this.
Use one of the Chalk and Charcoal brushes, like Charcoal - Feather.
Set the colorization method to NONE.
Make a mark. Take a sample reading with the Eyedropper tool. The RGB value will be, 32,32,32 (or some place around there) but defiantly not 0,0,0.
Now EXPAND the stroke and take a reading of the shapes color. Same values.
It is NOT RICH BLACK.
I DO NOT understand emils directions.

HT1212 My iPhones screen is broken(a black screen and the touch function does not work). I want to back it up, however I can't unlock it. I don't need to fix it, but i do need the information back up to new iPhone. How can i back it up?

My iPhones screen is broken(a black screen and the touch function does not work).I want to back it up, however I can't unlock it. I don't need to fix it, but i do need the information back up to new iPhone. How can i back it up?

i don't see a way for you to back up your phone, because it will require you to unlock the phone.

Help with rich black color for print project, please

We are using CS5 photoshop to create a 3ft x 8 ft vinyl banner. We've never created something this large for print before. Included layers are a black to white gradient, a black filigree graphic from DigitalJuice, and black text (that was created in Illustrator by someone else). We set the project up using CMYK. The printer informed us that we need to change the blacks to rich black (C50%, M40%, Y40%, K100%).
How is this best done? I can see how to change the color picker to the rich black %, but this doesn't appear to change the blacks in the project. Is there a way to change them, or to export the project with rich blacks?
Do we have to begin from scratch - and if so, how do we get the graphics and gradients to the rich black color settings.
Any help will be greatly appreciated -

In RGB mode I can't create non - rich black. For example if I set the color palette to CMYK, choose C=0%, M=0%,Y=0%, K=100%, fill the canvas with this color, and then measure the color with the eyedropper, the color reads C=70%, M=68%, Y=64, K=74%.
This means that if your document is in CMYK mode and you have blacks that read C=0%, M=0%,Y=0%, K=100%, converting the document to RGB and then back to CMYK these blacks will become rich. Though the numbers of the rich black my vary depending on how your color management is set.
Have in mind that the numbers above preserve the tonal intensity of non-rich black when converted to rich black. If you want the numbers your printer suggested they will be fine for elements like text and flat colors but for things like photo images this will intensify the blacks and will alter the tonal balance appearance which may be not what you want.

100k black exporting to PDF as rich black

Hey guys,
I've rattled my brain for long enough over this issue, it's time to ask the wider community.
When I export a pdf with any of my export profiles, all overprint 100k (black swatch) blacks are exported as CMYK. It doesn't matter if it's text or a graphic, the whole document is CMYK.
My export profiles have been bulletproof for the past 2 years, I use numerous printers so I always export using a very generic profile. Within the last two days, something has happened with my settings and eveything I export has this issue. I've poured over my settings and none of it has led me to an answer.
My only solution is converting to my generic profile with numbers preserved.
This makes the problem go away but it doesn't answer the question of why it has changed after all this time.
Help.
Screenshot of doc open in InDesign with text selected with black swatch selected:
Screenshot of doc in Acrobat pro seps with black unchecked:

Actually, a better question might be how you avoided the rich black using what you believe are the exact same settings over the past two years!!
Simply stated, if you do a PDF export and the CMYK content in your document is in a different CMYK color space than that specified for your output and your export setting call for converting colors to the output color space without the preserve CMYK values specified, there will definitely be a CMYK to C'M'Y'K' conversion occurring. This has been true since at least the first CS version of InDesign (InDesign 3).
The problem with CMYK to C'M'Y'K conversions is that they are a 4-3-4 conversion. The CMYK values are not directly converted to C'M'Y'K' but rather, converted first to the color management connection color space by use of the input profile and then from that color space back to the CMYK color space specified in your export settings. Such 4-3-4 conversions do not preserve pure colorant values. Thus you have the possibility of ending up with rich black if your content's color space and the output color space differ. The preserve numbers option was put in to effectively ignore CMYK to C'M'Y'K' conversion entirely and only deal with the conversion of RGB color spaces to the output color space. (Another technology, known a “device link profiles” can be used for CMYK to C'M'Y'K color conversions, preserving pure colorants, especially black. Unfortunately, InDesign doesn't support device link technologies!)
Then we must come back to why things supposed worked the last two years without specifying the “preserve values” option?!?!? One possibility is that previously your default CMYK color space exactly matched the output color space, thus bypassing any color conversion at all!
- Dov

How can I get rich black onto only black plate

I do layout for an advertising magazine. Much of the content is received from others (the advertisers) and much of that is amatuer (created in Word, etc.).
I place the ads into an ID (using CC) and export to PDF. My printer has me using a PDF/X-1a:2001 standard and for color conversion has me using Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers) with Destination and PDF/X Out Intent both Document CMYK. These settings work well for getting the RGB images in these documents output to CMYK as we need.
The problem is that often there will be text, or other fine line graphics, etc. that are actually rich black, printing on all plates, and the printer wants only a black plate to avoid registration problems.
We are printing on newsprint on a newspaper press.
Is there anyway to export to PDF and get these rich blacks to print only on the black plate (the copy also contains color images; usually RGB which the profile converts to CMYK)?

Rob Day wrote:
The problem is that often there will be text, or other fine line graphics, etc. that are actually rich black, printing on all plates, and the printer wants only a black plate to avoid registration problems.
The text in the PDFs you are placing could be 4-color rich blacks, but it could also be black only and you are getting a CMYK-to-CMYK conversion on output (4-color blacks) because of conflicting profiles.
I don't think you've mentioned what your document's Color Mangement policy is, but to avoid profile conflicts when you place PDFs with CMYK color, the CMYK policy has to be either Off or Preserve Numbers (Ignore Linked Profiles). Note that for existing layouts the policy is set on creation.
Also, the export dialog's Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers) can be misleading, that setting preserves the documents native colors, but not the colors of placed images and PDFs. If a placed PDF's profile conflicts with the ID document's profile, black will get converted—it's the opposite of the Preserve Numbers (Ignore Linked Profiles) CM policy.
My color settings are as follows:
North America General Purpose 2
Working Spaces:
RGB sRGB IEC619660-2.1
CMYK US Web Coasted (SWOP) v2
Color Management Policies
RGB Preserve Embedded Profiles
CMYK Preserave Numbers (Ignroe Linked Profiles)
For the export dialog, I am using Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers) because that it what my printer told me to use (remember that besides the black issue we are also dealing with making sure all images are CMYK and not RGB).
Any insights you have to this would be appreciated.

Rich Black – Some kind of guideline / template?

Hi All...
There is an ongoing thread about what "Rich Black" AI uses:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/429978?tstart=0
From the posts, i gather that, forget AI, there are a lot of options based on print quality paper stock, surfacing and finishing(?).
D'you folks think it possible to put up a kind of broad charectorisation of black-ink composition depending on relevant parameters?
Look, it doesn't have to be absolutely precise but a working rule of thumb. Maybe it could be posted as a sticky faq.
JJ

Scott...
That's getting somewhere... I was thinking of a basic kind of reference chart for newbies (and others)... kind of like:
Paper
Screen
GSM
CMYK
Newsprint
xx
40 0 0 100
Newsprint
yy
40 20 20 100
Coated Stock
225
40 40 40 100
PDF for web / email
Monitor
50 40 40 100
Some kind of a generic thing that would help get people started and have the caveat to check with their printer before final output. Could be a sticky.
Think it'd be of any help or just a waste of time?

Rich black gray images

I want to create a rich black, CMYK gray image. The colors must blend CMYK to make a nice gray image. It would be nice to apply GCR to remove some of the CMY and reduce the TAC. So far, I am able to make this happen. However, as a result of the GCR, the highlight areas in the photo are made up of mostly CMY. I would like to have the highlight areas made up of mostly black only. So, I want to use GCR in the mid-tone and shadow areas, but I'd like to use mostly black only in the highlight areas. Any thoughts as to how I can make this happen?

You are misunderstanding GCR. CMY in the highlights is not the result of GCR, it is the ABSENCE of GCR in those tones.
GCR is the substitution of blacK for CMY when there are combinations of the color inks in ratios that would simulate neutral gray (generally, equal amounts of C & M, and about 20% of those percentages as Y). The theory being that blacK alone can substitute for the gray that CMY can give. In practice it doesn't quite work out that way, but using black where neutral gray appears in the CMY mix up to about 50 % replacement is a good compromise.
If you are converting from RGB to CMYK, in Color Settings, set the working CMYK space to Custom CMYK, then use GCR and varying amounts of black generation to force more black replacement up into the light values of the image.
If your image is CMYK already, you'll have to do a "manual GCR by using Curves. Or, you could convert back to RGB, then control the conversion as above back to CMYK.
In either case, it's a crap shoot and you'll have to experiment and fine tune with Curves.
Rich

Rich Black Color in AI CS3

Hi, everyone!
I am using AI CS3. I want to apply the rich black color to my name card as below. Please let me know whether it's good to apply a rich black color in this condition. If so, please tell me how to make it as a rich black color for CMYK Process ( C=? ; M=? ; Y=? ; K=? ).
Everyone helps me! I will be very pleased and surprised to get the fastest answer.
Luck

Are you printing digitally in colour? If not, then there is little reason to use a rich black. On an offset press you can use a custom black to get a very dark and saturated result.
If you’re still here, then I guess it’s four colour digital. I would use 40, 30, 30, 100 for by black. I would also add a process black only (0, 0, 0, 100) keepaway around the type. Select the text objects and go to the Appearance panel. Click on Add New Stroke and drag the stroke below the Characters line. Make the stroke 1 point (half will be hidden under the text) black (0, 0, 0, 100). Use Separation Preview to verify that the black stroke does not overprint. Do the same in Acrobat Pro using Advanced > Print Production > Output Preview.
Appearance panel…
Separation Preview with all colours…
Separation Preview with black off…
(See that the text looks bolder? That’s what you want.)

Rich black needs to be designed?

In ID (CS5) preferences, it offers an option of "Accurate blacks" or "Rich blacks". As discussed before, "Accurate blacks" are 100%K and "Rich blacks" are a combination of CMYK. Am I assuming correctly that if you have designed a black box in InDesign and want it to print with a rich black, as well as choosing the "Rich black" option in Preferences, you also need to 'make' the black out of CMYK (such as 60C, 50M, 40Y, and 100K). You can not just choose the 'Print with Rich black' preference thinking it will change all of your blacks into rich black mixtures. Is that correct?

BobLevine wrote:
FWIW, my opinion is that anyone doing work destined for press should have both setting at accurate. For press you need to create and assign a rich black swatch.
I'm a print guy, and I disagree with Bob on this. I keep my dispaly set to accurate, becasue that affects what I see on screen, but the output setting has no effect whatever on exported PDF, which is the preferred file for handoff, so in essence the setting is pretty irrelevant for press.
That said, it DOES affect PRINTING to PDF using composite grayscale as the destination. If set to output accurately, 100%K is reserved in the output for rich blacks, and your 100% K type will print as a screen to reflect that it is lighter than a rich black. Small matter, and if you don't print to PDF or desktop printers, it really doesn't matter.

CMYK "Rich Black" information and Tips

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