Lightning arrestor / fiber segment

Does anyone know?
I'm mounting patch antennas on an outside wall, drilling a small hole in wall, and connecting the antennas to a 1200AP on the inside wall. I plan on setuping up a fiber segment on the cable run to the switch. My questions, 1) Should I install lightning arrestors between the antenna cable and RP-TNC connectors? 2) How long distance should the fiber segment be? Thank you.

Nope, I missed that point. The (so-called)lightning arrestors should preferably be kept outside on the antenna-side of the fiber link, with the grounding system also outside, if at all possible.
The idea is to bleed static and surface charges to ground before they can call their biggest bestest friend, lightning, to come over to visit.
Especially in dryer climates with wind, static charges build up to a point where they can whack the equipment, lightning or not.
The fiber link will isolate the charges and the most significant power zaps from lightning, but a near strike can still pulse any nearby equipment into containers of useless components.
SO ... typical layout:
LAN--SWITCH--[fiber xceiver]===Fiber Link===[fiber xceiver]---AP:::::"Lightning Arrestor":::Antenna
If your switch has a fiber port, you can just get a single compatible fiber xceiver and take the fiber link directly to the switch.
The non-coax connection on the lightning arrestor shold go directly to a grounding system (buried rod, cold water pipe ...)on large guage copper wire (I believe 6ga copper is typical for a direct system)
It is critical that the connections be well-bonded, clean, and as direct as possible with no sharp bends.
If you are interested in reading up on lightning protection (a nice thing to know if you're installing stuff outdoors & on rooftops)), PolyPhaser (.com) has a very good book on the subject that explains the details of a good lightning protection system.
Post up any additional questions. This is one of those things that just has to be right or the whole system is at risk.
Good Luck
Scott

Similar Messages

1524, how many Lightning Arrestors?

We want - based on customer requirements - to protect the outdoor APs and the infrastructure behind them from transient voltage surges and near-miss lightning.
I read in this forum that it is better to protect the infrastructure behind the APs by inserting a fiber link in between but we have to meet our customer requirements and protect the AP itself, which makes more sense.
The questions I have are the following:
Our APs are 1524SB's with two 5GHz antennas and 3 2.4GHz antennas. How many lightning arrestors should we use?
The connector type for the AP and antenna is N-type. The only lightning arrestor from Cisco is AIR-ACC245LA-R and it has an RP-TNC connector which is incompatible. Any recommended 3rd party item like Cushcraft or PolyPhaser? What is the part number to be used?

When I had to use external antennas connected back to the ap via lmr cable, we used one per antenna connection. Bridge requirements vary from manufacture. Some require arrestors outside and at times another one located inside.
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Lightning Arrestors for 3G Antennas

CSC,
I have a question on the lightning arrestors for 3G antennas. I think I may have found a typing error in the technical data. We have purchased a 3G-ANTM-OUT-COMBO which comes with a 3G-ANTM-OUT-OM outdoor omni-directional antenna and a lightning arrestor. The lightning arrestor in the COMBO is a AIR-ACC245LA-R, as shown in the link below:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/wireless/lightning_arrestor/installation/guide/hslar.html
On inspection of figure 1 in the link, it shows that the protected side is the TNC male end, the one with the thread for the ground lug. The one I have received, although it has the same part number, has the thread for the ground lug on the TNC female end.
When searching cisco.com for further information on the correct installation of the lightning arrestor, I found the following 3G-ACC-OUT-LA product. See link below:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/routers/access/wireless/hardware/notes/3glar.html
Looking at figure 1 on the above link, the lightning arrestor looks like the one I have received. The table for figure 1 indicates that the protected side is labelled as 4, the TNC female end, but the technical specifications state that the protected side is the TNC male.
Can someone please clarify if this is a potential error and what the correct orientation should be. I am assuming that the TNC male end should be the protected side, so that you can either attach it to the 3G device e.g. router or use an interconnection cable e.g. 3G-CAB-ULL-20. The cable comes with a TNC male and TNC female at either end.
Kind regards,
Ian

From an electrical engineering perspective assume we have 3 points of entry to the 1522, power, data and antenna. Each of these can transmit a lightning surge to downstream devices ie a switch or an upstream device the ap.
Generally the antenna will be the most vulnerable point of the installation to lightning strikes. If there is no surge suppression between the antenna and the ap then the ap can be damaged, also it can potentially transmit that surge down the data cabling, assuming the power cabling is protected as you say it should protect in both directions on the power side, but not always.
This probably means it can manage surges into the ap from the power side from a strike to transmission equipment and the transient overvoltages that may be caused.
Worst cast scenario your antenna gets a direct hit, the ap fails, the voltage is transmitted down the data cabling and takes out the 6500 its directly connected to! Nobodies going to say you done a great job and were just unlucky and you wont be winning any popularity contests
Its a question of risk, with an inline arrestor on the antenna cable you are protecting your ap etc. If its on a building and not the highest point its unlikely to get a direct hit. If its on a lighting column and the antenna is the highest point its possible. How much lightning do you get?
Not sure thats any help!

Lightning Arrestors for Aironet 1522

Hi,
In ordering guide, 1522 are designed to withstand power surges on the AC power cord up to 4 kV as per EN61000-4-5 Level 4 & lightning arrestors are not required.
What does it means? I've install the AP outdoor & using ant58g10ssa antenna. I'm afraid the AP will struck by lightning

From an electrical engineering perspective assume we have 3 points of entry to the 1522, power, data and antenna. Each of these can transmit a lightning surge to downstream devices ie a switch or an upstream device the ap.
Generally the antenna will be the most vulnerable point of the installation to lightning strikes. If there is no surge suppression between the antenna and the ap then the ap can be damaged, also it can potentially transmit that surge down the data cabling, assuming the power cabling is protected as you say it should protect in both directions on the power side, but not always.
This probably means it can manage surges into the ap from the power side from a strike to transmission equipment and the transient overvoltages that may be caused.
Worst cast scenario your antenna gets a direct hit, the ap fails, the voltage is transmitted down the data cabling and takes out the 6500 its directly connected to! Nobodies going to say you done a great job and were just unlucky and you wont be winning any popularity contests
Its a question of risk, with an inline arrestor on the antenna cable you are protecting your ap etc. If its on a building and not the highest point its unlikely to get a direct hit. If its on a lighting column and the antenna is the highest point its possible. How much lightning do you get?
Not sure thats any help!

Lightning arrestor handle a direct lightning strike

can lightning arrestor handle a direct lightning strike and discharge this energy to a properly installed earth ground?

Yes, it can....A good ground must be attached to the Arrestor. This can be accomplished by use of a ground lug attached to the Arrestor, and a heavy wire (#6 solid copper) connecting the lug to a good earth ground.

Line-of-site @ 1200 ft

I am extending a building automation system communication bus between 2 buildings approx 1200 ft apart in line-of-site roof-to-roof. Very low bandwidth is required. I'm considering the Aironet 1300. This is in Miami, so lightning may be a problem. What components will I need for a complete system? I printed the order guide for reference.
Thanks, Dave

Consider the components necessary for your setup to permit a segment of fiber between the rooftop components and the rest of your network.
"Lightning Arrestor" is a misnomer: it won't do a thing to prevent a lightning strike or the damage / effects of a direct or near lightning hit.
Having a segment of fiber between the external stuff and the internal network *will* save you, "lightning arrestors" will not.
If you put a copper/fiber converter at the AP, then run the fiber to either another converter, or an available fiber port on an existing switch is a good way to go. At worst, you lose the AP, power supply, and probably some coax.
You still need the "lightning arrestor" for code compliance ("Entrance Protection"), just don't relay on it to save your network.
Good Luck
Scott

Signal Strength Problems - 1310

I've got a site with six 1310's installed. Prior to Hurricane Katrina we've had no problems with the setup.
Since the hurricane, we've replaced all but two of the units (those two didn't get flooded). On the units that were replaced, we also replaced the antenna's (12dBi omni's) and the cable's (100' ULL).
We are getting really poor signal strength, -85 to -90 dBm. The maximum distance between root and non-root's is about 425 feet with clear line of sight. I don't have a good calculation of Fresnel zone, but since it is 28ft at 2.8 miles, I think I'm clear on this also.
I've two non-roots that are about 200 feet away from root, on start-up they have a signal strength of about -50 dBm, but over 10-15 minutes, they degrade to -85 dBm.
The Cisco engineer I was working with was thrown in the towel, saying he doesn't know anything about antenna's.
I did a site survey and didn't come up with any interference.
Anyone have any clues?
Thanks,
Westley

Thanks for the pictures, it helps a lot to see how things are layed out.
The move to replace 200' of low loss to 100 feet of Ultra low loss was probably a Very Good Thing and should have increased the signal strength considerably.
Grounding is very important, if only for the safety aspects. "Lightning Arrestors" don't stop lightning; they bleed off static electricity and (tend to) reduce the space charge that can accumulate on exposed elements.
It's always a good idea to put in a segment of fiber between the APs and the wired network to prevent the zap from killing the rest of the network (and maybe the phones too ....).
Check the coax for kinks (or places that were kinked), sharp bends, broken jacket, etc. At Gig+ frequencies, any malformed section of cabling an have a significant impact on the propagation of the signal.
Check each connector to make sure there isn't any "stuff" that is causing a casual short between the center conductor and the shield. Look closely, wire fragments from the braid can be pretty hard to see.
Also make sure that the center pin is ~level with the surrounding sleeve. Sometime the center pin is driven back into the connector (i.e., bad termination) and is not making sufficient contact.
The "starts strong and tapers off" symptom can only be something related to power, a failing component, heat (causing a component to break down), or some safety mechanism (i.e., high SWR causing the transmitter to throttle back)....
Try another known good power brick,
Try another antenna (any antenna)
and see if the symptoms change.
Probably the most suspicious places would be the connections around the arrestor, and the connection from the coax to the antenna pigtail.
I looked at the pattern of your new antennas:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/wireless/ps469/prod_installation_guide09186a0080148acf.html
The "E-Plane" drawings are the "side view," the "H-Plane" is the "top view". Imagine the line from the center of the chart to the "90" (bottom) is your mast.
Anyway, the short version is: Check the cable and connections carefully (especially connections and the arrestors).
Second to that, make sure the power supply is stable.
It's not likely to be an IOS issue (but I'm a big fan of staying as current as possible).
Check it out and let us know if you find anything ...
Good Luck
Scott

Outdoor NEMA enclosure or Outdoor AP.

Hello,
I am going to be installing 3502E for an outdoor wireless. I am just wondering if anyone would help me what enclosure should I get for 3502E. Also, should I get an external omnidirectional antenna? I also found this enclosure 12106CPOLYF-OO-RT. I am not sure if this is suffice in Las Vegas weather.
In addition, I know I would need a lightning arrestor, and some type of fiber-to-copper tranreceiver. Do you guys have a recommended model for these hardware?
I am also looking at Cisco 1530 AP, but not sure if I should get the 1530I or 1530E. For 1530 AP, can you guys also recommend a lightning arrestor, and some type of fiber-to-copper tranreceiver model for these AP. I won't be doing mesh for these AP, it will be an another alternative to the 3502E with enclosure. I just don't know which setup should I take.
Does the 1530 AP has a seperate CAT6 port just for POE or can I power on the 1530 with just one CAT6 (data/power)?
Thank you in advance.

Take a look at this enclosure also:
http://www.terra-wave.com/shop/poe-only-enclosure-system-for-cisco-3602e-access-point-p-2577.html
As far as the 1532's, they are meant to be used outdoors, so this might be a better option for you. Loghtning arrestors is a good idea, and many low voltage electricians know of various kinds that will work, basically they are CAT5e CAT6 lightning arrestors that have are rated for PoE, if PoE is being used. I can't say too much about a transceiver/media converter, because many I have seen in the field are not gigabit, but they do make gigabit ones these days. The 1532, only have a RJ-45 jack, so if your using a media converter, well that needs to be powered up and also in an enclosure that can keep the temps below the max operating temperature. If your runs are longer than 300 meters, then your better off doing MESH and supplying power to the mesh AP's.
Thanks,
Scott
Help out other by using the rating system and marking answered questions as "Answered"

Homebrew WiFi Antenna (Proper Cable, LMR-195 GR-58?)

Hey,
I don't know if this is the best forum for my questions, and if not please direct me to one that better suits my needs. I was simply referred to this forum through another one. Anyhow, me and my friend are attempting to build our own wifi antenna and after searching google for a while we have come up dry on a couple things.
1), From the wifi card we wish to attach a cable that will be say 25-50 ft in length which will then attach to the card's reg 3 inch antenna, pretty much extending the antenna from the card. What is the best cable to do this. Originally we were told to use GR-58 50 Ohm Coax cable however after reading further we found that would only be good for 3-4 ft before it pretty much "spills the connection all over the place". We were then recommended to use LMR-195 or better though what type of cable is this as it does not seem to be supplied by Radio Shack. The question is what cable would you guys recomend that could hold a wi-fi signal 25-50 ft from the end of the antenna on one end back into the wifi card on the other, and where can we purchase it?
Thanks in advance and if this is not a good forum for these questions please direct me to another. As time goes on we will build our own antenna but right now we want to get the reg antenna to work over a decent length of cable.

OK. Understood. You have a massive challenge ahead of you. Also be warned that an external antenna that is not properly protected and grounded can be a fire and safety hazard, and that it can accumulate enough of a static charge in dry, windy environmants to blow up your system (not so much like "boom" , but static electricity is deadly to most semiconductors).
Next, you may want to study on how to make a BALUN / UNUN because the WiFI stuff is 50 Ohm impedence, and your average TV antenna is 300 Ohm (assuming it's a classic LPDA - Log Periodic Dipole Array).
An LPDA for TV will have some elements for ~50 MHz, 260 Mhz, 512MHz, and if it's also a UHF antenna, it might be good up into the 900 MHz ranges. LPDA ware pretty wide spectrum, and you'll probably luck out and hit a harmonic somewhere.
You'll need to craft a 6:1 balun, not that big of a deal actually. Shop some of the amateur radio sites (like aesham.com) for materials or to just buy a 6:1 BALUN.
The Gain of a typical ~ 6 ft LPDA could likely provide enough gain to make the system work =-->IF<--= the cabling is very high quality, the cable termination is nearly perfect, your BALUN is efficient enough, and you don't lose too much signal through the protection system (that would be the protection system against lightning and static ... includes a thingy called a "lightning arrestor" that in no way, form, or fashion could do anything to stop lightning).
By the way, you'll want to bring that TV antenna down and clean every connection on every element. Any noisy junction will kill your signal.
All-in-all, the cable shouldn't cost you more than a couple hundred dollars, the materials for the BALUN another ~US$10-20, connectors another US$20-50, protection elements, maybe another US$25-100 depending on who and what you go with.
Here's a link with some good info regarding wireless signal propagation, 802.11, and antenna stuff.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/wireless/ps469/products_data_sheet09186a008008883b.html
Good Luck, make it a great learning experience!
Scott

T1 Router connection to remote network - Wireless Solution please?

Can someone please provide me with advice on how to setup a network across multiple buildings using wireless technology. We are a non-profit organization that deals with rehabilitating your most unwanted troubled teens. Our campus consists of multiple "cottages" and little office buildings. We have a T1 connection to the internet that is housed out our main office building. We would like to connect the training facility which is 100 ft away from the office building that houses our Cisco T1 Router without having to lay cable. The training facility is already network via a network hub. The main office building is also networked via a Cisco 24 port switch - is there a way we can connect the two networks without using cable? We were looking into the new 802.11a wireless technology to bridge the two networks together.
Please provide your comments and suggestions.
Thank you.

I have done what you wanted many times. I run connections all over town. My longest connection is soon to be from the top of the tallest building in town, 635 ft, to the top of a tower (300 ft) across town. This connection will be over 15 miles. I also provide the internet connection for the county. They have 2 radios to give them up to 20Mbits of bandwidth when they need to burst that high.
Anyway, what you want to do is simple. Use a BR-352 with 128 bit WEP. Although Cisco equipment is secure, the Bridge mode (versus the Access point mode) allows for one more level of security (the bridges run under a Cisco protocol and the hackers running around with Netstumbler typically do not have a $1500 bridge to do their war driving). If you want to ability to connect with laptops (while you roam in the general area) and desktops, you will need to put your bridge in access point mode (note that this is still secure).
Since your application is building to building, you will probably need 50-150 feet of cable (unless you put the radio in a weather protected box next to the antenna). You can kill your system if you do not do this right. You want your radio as close to the antenna as possible. You need to use LMR-400 for short runs or LMR-600 for longer runs (I use LMR-600 or large cable for all of my runs, and stopped using LMR-400 all together). The LMR-XXX waveguide has loss. You MUST MINIMIZE loss. You can add an amplifier if the situation dictates, but you must still minimize loss. You want to use directional antennas when possible. You want the highest gain antennas you can find (the more directional, the more gain i.e. a 6 degree beam width grid antenna has more gain then a 30 degree beam width yagi). I do not use Cisco antennas. The selection is not good.
Basic configuration:
Radio BR-352 Bridge (Always get and use 128 bit WEP encryption)
to
Adapter to jumper from Cisco RTNC (Reverse TNC) connector to a standard N-Type connector
To
Lightning arrestor
To
LMR-600 waveguide
To
Antenna
Add an amplifier if necessary
Special Tools and Parts:
LMR-600 crimping tool
LMR-600 N-male ends
Waterproofing (you get water in your cable and you might as well throw it away and it is tough to trouble shoot too)
Grounding Kit for LMR-600 (you ground your cable just before it enters the building
Cat-5e
Other Misc tools and supplies
If you have any questions, please fell free to email me.
Mike Wrobel
Bridges Communications, L.L.C.
[email protected]

Wireless Bridge Solution

Hello,
I am looking for a wireless Bridge Solution the distance between 2 buildings is 200 Metre approx and the height of the buildings are 24 metres. The desired bandwidth is 11 Mbps and above.
Please help me in finalizing the solution. I am looking for a cheap solution other than 1300, 1400 or 1500 solution.
Regards..

You can always use a 1242 in bridge mode with external antennas. You will need a NEMA heated/cooled enclosure for the ap unless that will be mounted indoors, lightning arrestor and LMR cable to extend the antenna if required and antenna mounting hardware. But with most systems, you will need line of site, so hopefully you have this. Antenna wise, you can go with a yagi at both ends.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/wireless/ps5678/ps6521/prod_qas0900aecd8031c8dc.html
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/wireless/ps7183/ps469/product_data_sheet09186a008008883b.html

Unannounced service call questions?

Just a quickie post asking for help. Not sure if this is the place to post this: 1 - Around May, 2015 I had a Comcast truck / technician show up at my home 2 - He said he rang the doorbell and no one answered - I was home 3 - He started to check my cable end's for signal strength when I walked up to him in the back yard. 4 - He said the call was put in the system automatically because the line was having problems 5 - The line / internet / signals have been fine 6 - The day before I did disconnect the cable from the modem from the firewall (PFSense - servicing the firewall) 7 - It was disconnected by me for one hour - plugged it back in after I was done and all was well. 8 - I talked to the service technician and asked why I wasn't called prior to the visit. 9 - He did not have an answer. 10 - None the less he said he would be upgrading my cable as it was over 10 years old - I said that was great. 11 - He replace the old cable with new cable - tested it OK (well old cable tested OK) 12 - Before he left he said the cable would be buried before the end of June, 2015 13 - It has been a bit difficult to have to move the cable whenever the grass was cut. 30 days it was OK but now its been an endeavor. 14 - I called Comcast support and told them my issue. Support opened a ticket and told me that the call was for Fri (July 3, 2015) from 8 AM to 8 PM. 15 - At 5 PM called Comcast support as no one had shown up. Customer service person told me someone would be there before 8 PM. 16 - Around 7 PM two service techs came. They told me the burial job had been missed. 17 - I asked when it would be done and they did not know. That and they said that customer service can not schedule their work. I am posting here because I do not know now when the line will be buried nor whom to call about it. It is causing issues having to move it every time the grass is cut. We have no fences here and folks are always walking neighbour to neighbour between yards. I am concerned that one elderly retired neighbor will trip over the wire. What can I do or where do I call for completion of the burial of the wire?

Thank you ComcastZach. Signal noise is reported back to us via a program set up to monitor for it. When too much is present, a tech is dispatched out to correct the issue. Signal noise isn't always noticeable to you. It can cause service issues sure, however there are times you don't even know it's happening. That is good to know as I do use the internet 24/7 and mostly let the firewall and services running monitor the quality of the signal and it's been good for me and I do not pay much attention to it. I am in to weather these days and have gone to downloading weather maps directly from the NOAA satellites mostly as a learning experience but too as a means of getting my weather map stuff direct. For the line bury, there is a job scheduled for 7/13 to come get that done. If that does not happen for some reason, let me know so I can get that escalated for you. Thank-you ComcastZach. Can you please ask to have the lightning arrestor in the ground stake reconnected or replaced? - Pete

AIR-ANT2440NV-R Installation

Hi,guys
Recently, I'm going to install AIR-ANT2440NV-R antenna for AIR-CAP3502E-C-K9. The Cisco document for AIR-ANT2440NV-R says it can be installed outdoor. But I'm worried about the line conneted between the antenna and the AP. Does it need to be protected from the complex outdoor environment?

That can be used outdoors. You just need to follow some basic steps when installing antennas outside.
You need coax seal to cover any openings and connectors, make sure you have a drip loop and make sure you mount the antenna the correct way, cable on the bottom.
I have used these and others outdoors, but I also have installed a lightning arrestor in each antenna lead prior to connecting to the AP just for protection.
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1410 ethernet uplink LED is off on power injector

I have a pt-to-pt wireless bridge consisting of two 1410 bridges operating over a 7 km link. It worked great until after approx. 2 weeks of operation it suddenly went down. The ethernet uplink led on the root's power injector was off with green injector status and ethernet activity led's. Tried power cycling, hard reset to factory defaults, and swapping injector and ethernet cables, power injectors, and radios with no luck. The consistent point of failure was the root bridge radio.
After receiving replacement 1410, the link operated for about 3 weeks, but now the same thing has occurred (dark uplink activity light with green status and ethernet activity lights on power injector).
Seems a bit unlikely that the same hardware error (if this was really the initial problem) would occur again. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

A 7Km link I'm guessing is outdoors. The same radio in the same spot only lasting a couple of weeks...my first guess would be weatherproofing.
How do you have the bridges set up physically?
Are they outdoors or do they run low loss cable up a tower? Are they grounded to the common earth ground? Lightning arrestors (Static Arrestors!) things like that.
What weather proofing has been done if any?

I need some help - Can't get response from refurbished AP1232AG access points -

We purchased 4 Cisco-refurb AP1232AG access points, intending to use one as a router and the others as repeaters. We have ran AC power to locations for all of the routers, mounted them in outdoor NEMA boxes, added the lightning arrestors and attached 12db omni antennas. All of that process went well.
I'm trying to access the routers per instructions by cisco, which state that all refurbs are set to 10.0.0.1 and must be accessed using a console cable from computer com port to the unit's console port. We have the cable and have it set up in that manner. We have tried using telnet, serial and web sessions within the Indigo software and it states the unit is not responding. I've tried using the Cisco IPSU and get the same message that the unit won't respond. I can't ping it from the C drive as well. All of the routers respond similarly so I'm certain that it's my fault and not the APs.
Is there anyone who can take a minute to walk me through what I may or may not be doing correctly to access the APs and get them configured? I lack the requisite background to determine the problem on my own. I feel confident that I can configure them if I can get to them.
Any would be appreciated.
thanks

Hi rlrigsby0613 and welcome to the Cisco Home Community!
This product is being handled by the Cisco Small Business Support Community.
For future discussions about this product, go here.
The Search Function is your friend.... and Google too.
How to Secure your Network
How to Upgrade Routers Firmware
Setting-Up a Router with DSL Internet Service
Setting-Up a Router with Cable Internet Service
How to Hard Reset or 30/30/30 your Router

Lightning arrestor / fiber segment

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