Objective comparison of tiling WMs?

Giving tiling WMs a second look... the ones I'm primarily concerned with are AwesomeWM, xmonad, and Stumpwm.
I'd really appreciate an _objective_ comparison of features, hopefully with notes if a certain WM does not come with a certain feature, but can easily be added through a 3rd-party app.
So far, the only real comparisons I've been able to find are the differences in configuration. Awesome uses LUA configs (in v3+), xmonad uses Haskell headers, and Stumpwm uses CLISP. I am willing to learn how to configure any of them - I just would like a rundown of features before I spend a lot of time tweaking one, only to find out it lacks critical feature A that window manager B has (BTW: Stumpwm waves the CLISP flag pretty enthusiastically... what are the benefits of this?)
Speed should not matter - I have a fast PC, I just like minimalism, and am willing to try tiling.
Last edited by Ranguvar (2008-10-23 23:06:24)

Ranguvar wrote:...and Stumpwm uses CLISP. I am willing to learn how to configure any of them - I just would like a rundown of features before I spend a lot of time tweaking one, only to find out it lacks critical feature A that window manager B has (BTW: Stumpwm waves the CLISP flag pretty enthusiastically... what are the benefits of this?)
StumpWM uses Common Lisp. CLISP is one Common Lisp implementation you could use. Common Lisp is abbreviated CL, and never CLISP, because that would be extremely confusing. StumpWM waves the CL flag because to a Lisper, it's a big draw. The benefit is that you can configure/modify StumpWM with CL, rather than some horrible config file format or some lame programming language. And you can do it while StumpWM is running. And if you run StumpWM in a multithreaded Lisp, such as SBCL (CLISP does not do multithreading), you can connect to your running StumpWM from Emacs to hack on it even more easily, or control it if you like.
As for features, Awesome and Xmonad come from the dwm school of tiling: you've got one main window and a bunch of little windows off to the side, and you can "spin" through the ring. They both support floating mode for windows. Awesome does window tagging that allows you to group any arbitrary set of windows together for viewing, and Xmonad does a more traditional workspace arrangement.
StumpWM (and Ratpoison)'s tiling style is to let you split any window horizontally or vertically to get a new window. I think most users either make up some window config that they like or else they run with one full-screen window 90% of the time. I do the latter, and set up my window switching to be easy and direct. It has window groups which are your basic virtual desktops, but I never use them since unused programs are "out of sight, out of mind" anyway.

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XML Object Comparison

When comparing two XML objects, it appears that flexunit is reporting their equality when the values of XML elements are not equal.
Here's a valid example:
var xmlA:XML =
<root>
     <element1>text1</element1>
     <element2>text2</element2>
</root>;
var xmlB:XML =
<root>
     <element2>text2</element2>
     <element1>text1</element1>
</root>;
Assert.assertTrue(ObjectUtil.compare(xmlA, xmlB) == 0)   => true
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Here's an invalid example:
var xmlA:XML =
<root>
     <element1>text1</element1>
     <element2>text2</element2>
</root>;
var xmlB:XML =
<root>
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</root>;
Assert.assertTrue(ObjectUtil.compare(xmlA, xmlB) == 0)   => true
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Thanks!
Sam

As you've discovered, the problem is with your comparison. XML in Actionscript are really objects under the hood.
Lets say you had this:
var xml1:Object = {element1: "text1", element2: "text2"};
var xml2:Object = {element2: "text2", element1: "text1"};
Here, just like you want to do the XML comparison, the order of the properties doesn't matter, but you want to check the values of a particular property.
So xml1 == xml2 fails not because the element values are out of order, but because the comparison occurs on the objects themselves, and not the properties in the objects.
In order for my object comparison to succeed, I would probably need to create a hash of properties from both objects and verify that the keys are the same and the values of matching keys are the same if I don't want to use any of the built in utilities for comparing objects.
So, in your example, the comparison you want to use is E4X, doing something like this:
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Tiling WMs - Management style

Can someone explain what that means
I checked this comparo of tiling WMs and the only clue I got was this obscure statement
The user must manually move windows around.
Can someone elaborate on it? What does it mean to the actual user? If I am moving the windows manually as a user(whatever that means), what do the other Tiling WMs that have a dynamic management style do differently?
Last edited by Inxsible (2009-03-03 07:46:46)

Inxsible wrote:
u_no_hu wrote:
Dynamic - the wm places the windows according to the layout you choose (awesome , xmonad,dwm etc)
Manual - You split the screen and place the windows where ever you want... otherwise they all come maximised(ratposion, ion etc)
Why not try them out and understand the difference?
I am trying them out. I have currently installed awesome, dwm and wmii to see which suits me. well I removed awesome when I saw on the wiki that the recommended is awesome-git and I had installed it from the repo. So I will be installing the git version tonight.
Its just that once I get into those WMs, there is hardly anything that I can do since I don't know the shortcuts to do anything. Last night I logged into dwm and the only thing I could do was hard reset -- of course that was because I am a bonehead and not because dwm is lacking.
As dieter@be said, start with wmii, because it has a pretty good tutorial on startup which gives you a pretty good idea about tiling wms. Once you get the idea, try them all and you will find something which will suit you.
In my case i found ion3 to be perfect for my need though it is not that popular among others (may be because of the politics). Ion3 and pekwm both allow hotswapping of window managers so i find using a combination of both to be perfect(you can bind keys to swap windowmanagers on the fly.. which is pretty nice when you want to open gimp or cinepaint).

Why is Xmonad so beautiful? (Discussion about tiling WMs)

About a week ago I started to use Xmonad - and I am highly impressed! The complete work flow is a breeze, I don't have to keep track of all my hundreds of programs anymore - at least the way I used to.
Everything is arranged, nice and neatly. It is the first time I am actually taking advantage of the possibilities offered by having different workspaces!
Starting with Windows 95 (I was just 6 years or so old), then later with Windows 98 and Windows XP I was used to work with only one workspace, alt+tabbing my way through the clutter of windows being spread all over. After my switch to GNU/Linux (Ubuntu at that time) this didn't really change, although there were different workspace. It was the same with Openbox or KDE later one. The possibility was there, but it just didn't come natural to work like that.
But with those tiling WMs I am seriously spoiled! Just after this very week I am already having a hard time adopting to a classic floating WM again.
Now I just wonder - how come tiling WMs aren't widely used these days? Is it because Microsoft didn't support them? Or Apple?
When did tiling WMs actually emerge? And do you think there is a chance for them to get widely accepted, even among non-techsavvy people?
Or for those who are using Floating WMs - did you ever try a tiling WM? Are you planning to? If you tried one, why aren't you using it?
What do guys think is the major advantage of tiling WMs over floating WMs and vice versae?
I would like to hear some opinions.

slackhack wrote:I thought about using a tiling WM, but I use mostly browsers and other gtk2 gui apps, with terminals secondarily. tiling WMs seemed better if you primarily use terminals, am I wrong about that? It just seems like I would feel constricted or restrained not being able to move windows around, resize them, etc. what's the best tiling WM to try? Awesome?
Hell no. I recommend xmonad. You can intergrate any DE you want too,
Ashren wrote:
I don't find Xmonad beautiful, especially not the syntax of the config file, what a nightmare.* Dwm on the other hand, that's a beaut - a real archers choice.
I'm running gnome when procrastinating and dwm when procrastinating with scripts and lots of terminal work.
* A clear indication of lack of basic Haskell l33tness. I did enjoy running Xmonad after a week of tinkering, though.
I think that your statement is not true anymore. the dwm configuration file has been constantly changing for like half a year or so which is very irritating. also the attempt to intergrate xinerama support with all those xv, yv 's or what they were called was very funny, and frustrating to say the least. also see my response to slackhack.
Even though xmonad is written in haskell, and i dont know any haskell, its the only serious tiling window manager left out there.
maybe wmii too. dwm is probably still a good base to build your own kickass wm.
Stalafin wrote:When did tiling WMs actually emerge?
With Windows 1.0?
Last edited by dolby (2008-07-15 22:05:54)

Object comparison tool with reflection

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Thank you for your reference. What I actually need is to identify the positions of differences between two objects and show the differences in an higherachycal way.
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But the problem I face with this structure is that, When I traverse into a collection object, it doesn't have a name for its items. So I get a problem of how to get the key (actually path). If this problem can be solved, my comparison is completed.
If anyone knows a tool that does the same thing, let me know so that I can analyse how they do so. Or give me a help on what to do with my structure of comparison. I can't call objects equals method as my other packages have modified this equals method. So I have to get each and every declared field value and see whether the given two objects are of the same with their declared values and fields.

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Object Comparison between different systems

Hi to all,
any of you have made a program to compare object/object versions between diferent systems (with RFCs).
Can you tell me wich Function Models and tableshave you used.
I found a very usefull Function Model SVRS_GET_VERSION_DIRECTORY_46 very usefull for my purpose but i depared myself with a strange problem. The table VRSD used in this FM have all the Objects in the System but when i tried to transport a request between 2 diferent Systems no new entry was added to VRSD in the target system so SVRS_GET_VERSION_DIRECTORY_46 is no usefull.
Any one knows if there is any customizing relative to this table or any process to catch this transported objects in the target System?
There is one entry in E070 but here thre is no reference for Object versions.
Many thanks and any help will be very Helpfull.
Thanks In advance
PPaiva

Hi Pedro,
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Tiling wms

Hi, I want to move to a tiling window manager. But from what I have been reading on here they take a lot of time to configure. Well, I'm in the Air Force, and as of late I've been busy with a lot of extra work. So I was wondering which one I should go with. Which will take the least amount of time to configure? Or should I just stay away from them completely then?
Last edited by ph0tios (2008-02-28 07:44:04)

ph0tios wrote:I'm not much of a programmer, and it is somewhat straightforward, but I find myself getting frustrated with modifying it. I suppose I'm not getting the concept. I initially tried the tutorial linked from the xmonad website on running it in xfce, until I actually had time to sit down and configure dzen, etc. But even then when I tried to modify the config it output errors. Hm.
I was also looking for a good tiling wm, i found dwm to lack some features, and xmonad was kind of good, but hard to get right.
You should check out awesome, it has an easier configuration, and you can use widgets with it, for example, see sen's post/config:
post #291 for screenshot & #303 for configs
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=43217&p=12
Last edited by jonkristian (2008-02-29 08:53:59)

Wmi vs ion, tiling WMs and WM zealotry

thread-hijack time....
Anybody looked at the wmii-3 snapshots? Sounds like they changed everything again. I have a couple complaints with pek now, but both of them are just bug/cosmetic, I still love the way it works and is configured. Didn't know it was out of development though. :-(
Dusty

Dusty wrote:autoproperties -- you can set up windows to always open in the same position on the same desktop
Those are called kludges in Ion. It's the same thing. They go in the same frame every time the launch.
Dusty wrote:fill-available space -- you can use a key or mouse click to make the window take up all space.
Um... Ion already does that.
Dusty wrote:By combining these, I get the full effect of a tiled window manager -- full utilization of the screen -- without the limitations taht they impose.
In Ion, you create floats. Pop up notifications appear as a normal window would in any other manager, floating above all other windows. There is also something called a Float Workspace that creates a workspace that is all floats. Basically a workspace that works with windows as you would expect them to work in any other WM. And you can set up those kludges so that whenever I start up Gimp, it automatically creates a float workspace, and puts the whole app in floats in it.
Basically, wmi is not Ion and you shouldn't base your opinions of tiled window managers off of wmi. In my experiences it's limited, and the only "feature" it has is keybindings like Vi, but then you could just set that up in ratpoison or Ion if you wanted.
Dusty wrote:My problem with all of them is that they seem to be 'minimalist' window managers.
Ratpoison is great if you want something crazy minimalistic. Ion on the other hand is not minimal.
Here is a screen shot of what you think Ion can't do:

Tiling WMs problems

dwm:
I downloaded source from the official site, unpacked it, installed (make, make install clean) and everything worked. However, when i altered config.h, it compiled nicely, but changes wouldn't appear (terminal shortcut, etc).
wmii:
I guess this is easy one. What is the MOD setting for Ctrl in wmiirs (MOD1 is Alt)?
xmonad:
This tiny file requires a 40mb program as a dependency. Is there a workaround for this?
Last edited by Hide (2007-10-24 13:05:36)

dwm:
# pacman -S cvsup
change "!community" in /etc/abs/abs.conf to "community"
# abs
copy the dwm folder in /var/abs/community/x11/ into /var/abs/local
copy your changed config.h into /var/abs/local/dwm
delete the md5sum of the config.h in dwm's PKGBUILD
# makepkg
works great here...
Cheers Sigi

On the search for a(nother) tiling-wm

hi everybody.
i've been using wmii for a couple of month now and i am quite happy, except for a few little things. however, these things irritated me more and more over time, so i decided to look for alternatives. i have the following requirements:
- wmii-like dynamic tagging
- a "tabbed-layout" (ie, h-tab layout, fullscreen with only tabs shown needs to exist)
- it should be possible to have a second statusbar showing information piped in from any source (i don't care if its conky, xmobar, dzen, whatever).
first i thought that it would be easy to find another tiling wm, however after reading through the comparison table at the wiki i found that it is not that easy.
wmii misses the tabbed-layout feature which exists in i3. i3 misses the dynamic tagging unfortunately.
xmonad has the tabbed layout and the second statusbar (at least i think so since i saw screenshots with two status-bars), however i did not manage to get xmonad.actions.tagwindows (which i think may be used to do something like dynamic tagging) to work at all.
stumpwm (which seems to be great btw) just as awesome lacks as most other tiling wms listed in the comparison table in the wiki the tabbed layout feature i am looking for.
i'd love to use dwm, however i didn't find any patches flying around providing the functionality i need.
so, fellow archers. has anybody a configuration in any tiling-wm that achieves these three goals (dynamic tags aka workspaces, tabbed layout and a second statusbar)? if so, please step forward and show me your config

Ashren wrote:dw: Have you read the comments in the xmonad.actions.tagwindows code? Look here: http://code.haskell.org/XMonadContrib/X … Windows.hs
hi ashren, first of, thanks for replying.
i did have a look at the comments provided in tagwindows and i realized that at least it does something. i did come so far that i could assign tags to windows (which is good).
i am still struggeling however to get keybindings done in a wmii way. which means tagging a window also removes the current tag and basically "hides" the active client from the current workspace by "moving" it to the newly assigned tag). tagwindows currently only adds the additional tag and i am not able to generate a keybinding that lets me cycle through tags and if i choose a tag showing only those clients being tagged with the chosen tag. difficult to explain somehow.
anyone here uses tagwindows? or would i be better off asking in #xmonad?

[twmn] Notification system for tiling window managers.

Hi,
twmn is a young KISS notification system designed to work with tiling wms in the sense that it does not create a popup like notification daemon for example, but it create a slide which just cover the bar you usually have on a tiling window manager.
Here is the git repository : https://github.com/sboli/Twmn
Don't hesitate to try/fork/submit improvements.
Here is a little video to show you what it does :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmc_HecsfoA
Last edited by boli (2011-08-24 20:11:03)

[karol@white 111]$ tar xfz twmn.tar.gz
[karol@white 111]$ ls
twmn twmn.tar.gz
[karol@white 111]$ cd twmn
[karol@white twmn]$ ls
PKGBUILD
[karol@white twmn]$ makepkg -si
==> Determining latest git revision...
-> Version found: 20110817
==> Making package: twmn 20110817-1 (śro, 17 sie 2011, 00:17:45 CEST)
==> Checking runtime dependencies...
==> Checking buildtime dependencies...
==> Retrieving Sources...
==> Extracting Sources...
==> Entering fakeroot environment...
==> Starting build()...
==> Downloading source code from git repository...
Cloning into Twmn...
remote: Counting objects: 30, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (25/25), done.
remote: Total 30 (delta 5), reused 28 (delta 3)
Receiving objects: 100% (30/30), 8.60 KiB, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (5/5), done.
==> Source code successfully downloaded.
cd twmnd/ && /usr/bin/qmake /home/karol/111/twmn/src/Twmn/twmnd/twmnd.pro -o Makefile
cd twmnd/ && make -f Makefile
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/karol/111/twmn/src/Twmn/twmnd'
g++ -c -pipe -march=i686 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -Wall -W -D_REENTRANT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_NETWORK_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/share/qt/mkspecs/linux-g++ -I. -I/usr/include/QtCore -I/usr/include/QtNetwork -I/usr/include/QtGui -I/usr/include -I. -o main.o main.cpp
g++ -c -pipe -march=i686 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -Wall -W -D_REENTRANT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_NETWORK_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/share/qt/mkspecs/linux-g++ -I. -I/usr/include/QtCore -I/usr/include/QtNetwork -I/usr/include/QtGui -I/usr/include -I. -o widget.o widget.cpp
g++ -c -pipe -march=i686 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -Wall -W -D_REENTRANT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_NETWORK_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/share/qt/mkspecs/linux-g++ -I. -I/usr/include/QtCore -I/usr/include/QtNetwork -I/usr/include/QtGui -I/usr/include -I. -o settings.o settings.cpp
/usr/bin/moc -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_NETWORK_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/share/qt/mkspecs/linux-g++ -I. -I/usr/include/QtCore -I/usr/include/QtNetwork -I/usr/include/QtGui -I/usr/include -I. widget.h -o moc_widget.cpp
g++ -c -pipe -march=i686 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -Wall -W -D_REENTRANT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_NETWORK_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/share/qt/mkspecs/linux-g++ -I. -I/usr/include/QtCore -I/usr/include/QtNetwork -I/usr/include/QtGui -I/usr/include -I. -o moc_widget.o moc_widget.cpp
g++ -Wl,--hash-style=gnu -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-O1 -o ../bin/twmnd main.o widget.o settings.o moc_widget.o -L/usr/lib -lQtGui -lQtNetwork -lQtCore -lpthread
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/karol/111/twmn/src/Twmn/twmnd'
cd twmnc/ && /usr/bin/qmake /home/karol/111/twmn/src/Twmn/twmnc/twmnc.pro -o Makefile
cd twmnc/ && make -f Makefile
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/karol/111/twmn/src/Twmn/twmnc'
g++ -c -pipe -march=i686 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -I/usr/share/qt/mkspecs/linux-g++ -I. -I. -o main.o main.cpp
main.cpp:3:37: fatal error: boost/program_options.hpp: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.
make[1]: *** [main.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/karol/111/twmn/src/Twmn/twmnc'
make: *** [sub-twmnc-make_default] Error 2
==> ERROR: A failure occurred in build().
Aborting...
[karol@white twmn]$
What did I do wrong?
Last edited by karol (2011-08-16 22:22:34)

Testing Object Equality using Serialization

Hey everyone! I was wondering if somebody could help me figure out how to compare two objects using serialization.
I have two objects that I'm trying to compare. Both of these objects extend a common "Model" class that has a method getSerialized() that returns a serialized form of an instance, shown below:
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        byte [] otherClass = obj.getSerialized();This is where things get a little funny. The byte arrays don't equal - one array is a byte larger than the other. If a byte-by-byte comparison is done, the arrays are equal for the first 15-20% and then not equal for the rest. If I deserialize the byte arrays back into Models and do a toString() on those models, I find that they are equal.
I have a feeling there's something about the serialization process that I don't fully comprehend. Is there a way to properly implement object comparison using serialization?
Thanks in advance!

When you serialize an object, you also serialize the entire tree of references based on that object (except for transient variables). That tree is the complicated business you described there. Serialization stores all the objects in the tree, along with data that explains which objects refer to which other objects. Furthermore if the tree is actually a graph, and there are multiple ways to get to an object, it still only stores each object once. I don't see any reason to believe that all that relationship data would be encoded identically for a pair of trees that you deemed to be equal. And your experiment shows that indeed it isn't.

IMovie/iDVD vs Adobe Premiere Elements Comparison Question

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How well does APE run on your typical Core 2 Duo Windows laptop (1.6mhz)?
Just curious.
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Okay, so here's my settings for my project...
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