Original and Transcoded (ProRes 422) Media

Hi all
Can anyone explain to me what exactly is the point of having both original (say H264, for example) and transcoded media in a library? I fail to grasp the point since I am only interested in dealing with prores files.
Thanks

Hyphen.
If FCP has the choice between original and optimized versions it will always use optimized.
It is not necessary to copy both versions to your library. If you check leave files in place in the import window and also check create optimized, it will link to the external original media and copy the Pro Res version to your library. Of course, it the clips are still on the camera, (or if you are importing from a camera archive) there will be no leave in place option and you would need to manage the library files after import.
Final Cut Pro X: Manage optimized and proxy media files
Russ

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Need advice about H.264 and Apple ProRes 422.

When exporting a "master file" I can encode the video as H.264 or Apple ProRes 422 (etc). The H.264 is more compressed but still in 1080p? Does this mean that I do not have to compress the file with "Compressor"? What is the advantage of using ProRes and what is the advantage of using H.264? I want of course the files to be as small as possible but still at the best quality. Any advice?
Thanks.

ProRes is an editing format. If you are archiving a finished project, you can create an extremely high quality "print" with H.264. ProRes 422 will use approximately three times as much memory. ProRes 422(HQ) roughly four times and ProRes 4444 up to 10 times (compared to the size of the file FCPX will export as H.264).
FCPX exports (shares) H.264 in highest quality (over 45Mbits/sec [if needed] for 1080p), you have no options to adjust for smaller files (or lesser quality from FCPX.)
To get "as small as possible," you'll need to learn more about compressing video. As a comparison (to FCPX), YouTube limits a maximum bandwidth of 8Mbps (used to be 5Mbps -- I *still* compress to 5Mbps before uploading.) Even compressed this highly, H.264 provides excellent results. [Compressing in ProRes is going from 4444 down to 422 Proxy (not to be confused with proxy media used in FCPX which is 1/4 resolution, i.e. 960x540 for 1080, ProRes 422.) You cannot compress each of the different ProRes flavors individually.]
You'll need other software to compress further than FCPX. I use Quicktime 7 Pro. Compressor is another way to go (Compressor will let you set "compression markers" so you can vary the bitrates through various sections of your work). The way to figure out your compression level is to find a section (less than a minute) with the highest motion high contrast (and/or changing gradients) and export at different bitrates. Watch for "jpeg artifacts" (blocking) and once you've gotten past that, that's the bitrate you should compress to. (I've had some clips that required at least 20Mbps.) It just takes a little practice to get a feel for it.

Why after optimising media (AVCHD) does the info tab say the codec is the native codec and not ProRes 422?

I optimise media from AVCHD and the Transcoded Media files are created in the events folder in the finder. However, after importing has finished, I click on a clip in FCP X and then click on the info tab to see that the clip has the original codec. Therefore I guess I am not editing in ProRes. How can I switch?

What's pointing to the original media? What folder is it in? Is there a Transcoded Media folder? Does it contain a High Quality Media folder?

Step by step Apple ProRes 422 PROXY workflow, please.

Anyone could help me find a complete video or not, "Step by step Apple ProRes 422 PROXY workflow", please. I can´t find any.
I´ve never used Apple ProRes 422 PROXY and I´ve all the doubts on how to use it, final quality, etc, etc.
My original files are from a Canon 5DMII (H.264) and I usually transcode to Apple ProRes HQ with the EOS1-plug-in. The renderings are too long...during my editing ,-( Too long and my machine stops with the heat after several hours.
(I´ve my settings ok, between my files and my project, etc).
Is Apple ProRes 422 PROXY, a possible solution, at least during the editing process? Good quality and less time rendering?
What about final output? Can I have 1080p/24 pristine as I´ve now?
I´m editing with a MacBook Pro 15"/2.33 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo/4GB SDRAM.
Thanks very very much. I´m a bit desperate 8~S

ProRes flavours:
"The Apple ProRes format comes in five versions: Apple ProRes 4444, Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), Apple ProRes 422, Apple ProRes 422 (LT), and Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy)."
from http://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/professionalformatsandworkflows/in dex.html#chapter=10%26section=2
Tom, you mean, Apple ProRes 422 or Apple ProRes 422 (LT).
Why? Because this specs?
(according to Apple)
"Apple ProRes 422
The Apple ProRes 422 codec provides the following:
Target data rate of approximately 145 Mbps (1920 x 1080 at 60i)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422 (LT)
Apple ProRes 422 (LT)
The Apple ProRes 422 (LT) codec provides the following:
Roughly 70 percent of the data rate of Apple ProRes 422 (thus, smaller file sizes than Apple ProRes 422)
Higher quality than Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy)"
Are enough (Mbps, colorspace, etc) to handle with files from 5DMII (1080p/24 my settings) without a big waste of resources; space, time, etc? In this the point to consider?
"If you use Proxy for ingest you'll have to batch ingest to higher resolution for output." - Tom.
I´m sorry but I know nothing about the use of Proxy files, so I don´t understand what you mean. That´s why I asked for an explanation step by step... ,-(
Additional question: is it possible (at all) to change the projects I´ve (several); all with Apple ProRes HQ to another ProRes version? Will I loose what? Effects, filters, renderings?
Thx.

How do I set up Premiere as ProRes 422 at 1440 x 1080?

Hello.
I am still on the learning curve for Premiere Pro having held out on FCP 7 for as long as possible.
Anyway.
I need to edit a project that was shot on HDV.
It was originally captured as ProRes 422 in FCP at 1440x 1080. I am now importing the video files into Premiere.
I want to continue to edit in ProRes 422 at 1440 x 1080.
I have the ProRes 422 codec installed for Premiere but I can't figure out how to change it from its default of 1920 x1080. When I change the 1920 to 1440 it changes the 1080 to 810.
I might be doing this in the wrong place. I am attempting to change it in the sequence settings under video previews. I can't seem to find anywhere else to change it.
Can someone please advise?
Many thanks.

Open a matching Sequence by dropping the clip on the "NEW ITEM" Icon at bottom of the Project Panel.

HDV Sequence vs. Apple ProRes 422 Sequence

Is there a disadvantage to capturing and editing HDV, then creating a ProRes 422 output instead of capturing and editing ProRes 422 from the start? Will there be loss incurred or some other undesirable effect in the workflow in the former over the latter?
Thanks
Larry

Hi Ian
With FCP Apple introduced a new capability for native HDV and XDCAM HD timeline editing, that being the ability to specify the render codec as ProRes ... which means that renders do not need to be "conformed" to the native GOP structure (so much much faster) and better still, they get the expanded chroma resolution offered by ProRes (ie 10 bit 422 over HDV's 8 bit 420). With this ability the average user can enjoy all the benefits of a high quality intraframe codec for effects/renders and at the same time all the benefits of low bit rate iterframe codec for mass storage. Best of both worlds.
You set the render codec in the Sequence Settings >> Render Control tab
You'll love it.
Best
Andy

Aren't FCPX and Compressor supposed to be able to export Apple ProRes 422 LT? I just bought FCPX and Compressor and there seems to be no way to transcode HDV clips to Apple ProRes422 LT. Before buying I read LACUG tutorial by R Taylor that says it can.

Aren't FCPX and Compressor supposed to be able to export Apple ProRes 422 LT? I just bought FCPX and Compressor and there seems to be no way to transcode HDV clips to Apple ProRes422 LT. Before buying these I read an LACUG tutorial by R Taylor that says it can.

Tom is right. Codecs are shared software system-wide ("Core Video"). If you cannot find the option with any software (such as MPEG Streamclip), you won't find it in Compressor or FCPX either. The Quicktime ProRes codecs is part of the FCP menu > "Download Additional Content" you need to make after install FCPX (or Compressor.) These "pro video" codecs are part of all "ProApp" licenses for video related software from Apple (QT7Pro, Motion, Compressor, Final Cut, etc....) [you can also download them here: http://support.apple.com/kb/dl1396]
Most articles/tutorials you read by "long time" users are apt to assume the reader has been working with pro-video on Macs since the days of disk installs (like they have). In those days, the installation of those codecs wasn't even really an option (well, it was if you did a custom install - but who *didn't* install all available codecs??), it was automatically installed with the main software. Since the "App Store" venue... things have changed somewhat.

FCPX Project Render Settings - Can you edit in h.264 and Transcode/render only used clips on timeline to Prores during render?

I have a question on the PROJECT RENDER settings in FCP X. It’s seems to me that one could theoretically import and edit entirely with original h.264 video files without needing to Transcode to ProRes422. Once you’re done with your edit and want to get the added benefits of COLOR GRADING in ProRes422 color space, it seems that FCPX will automatically render your edit in ProRes422 according to these preferences. In that case, a color grade could be applied to the whole edit, and be automatically transcoded/rendered into ProRes 422 during the render process. After rendering, what would show up on the viewer and what would EXPORT would be the rendered Prores files and not the original h.264 files. This saves a lot of time and space of transcoding ALL your media, and in theory should enable you to edit NATIVE video formats like h.264, with automatic benefits of ProRes during render. I'm assuming the render may take longer because FCPX is having to convert h.264 video files to ProRes422 while rendering. This may be one drawback. But will you your color grade actually use the 4:2:0 color space of the h.264 native media, or will it utilize 4:2:2 color space, since the render files are set to render to ProRes422 ? Can anyone please confirm that this theory is correct and optimal for certain work flows?? Thanks!

Thanks Wild. That's what I thought - in that the render files would be converted to ProRes422 codec. So do you or anyone else think that there is an advantage to having the 4:2:0 original file be processed in a 4:2:2 color space?
Yes there is an advantage, any effects and grading will look better than in a 4:2:0 space.
Most professionals online seem to think so. Also - will rendering of heavy effects and color grading take longer using this method because it's having to convert h.264 media to ProRes during render?
Yes, it will definitely take longer.
Can anyone verify from a technical standpoint whether editing and color grading in this workflow will see the same benefits as having transcoded the h.264 media to ProRes in the first place?
Same benefits from a final product view point, you lose on rendering time though and if you have lots of effects things will seem slow as it will have render everytime from the h264 file rather than a Pro Res file for every change you make. This may be fine on a higher end mac but I'm sure just pummels an older lower end mac as to being almost useless.

Media Encoder changes the timecode when converting to Quicktime ProRes 422 (LT)

After spending the majority of my day searching for a solution to this problem, I am hoping someone here will know how to resolve this issue.
After encoding several hundred clips of various file types to ProRes 422 LT at 23.976fps in Media Encoder, we discovered that the timecode of the source clips and the LT clips varies significantly when we bring the quicktime clips into FCP 7 or Quicktime 7. This is also creating issues for the EDL.
The source clips are XDCamHD, H.264, and .R3D files. We set up a batch in AME with a preset for ProRes (LT) at 23.976. After the batch processes, we import the clips into FCP 7 then export an EDL from the sequence. The EDL shows timecodes that do not match the source clips.
The timecode is off by several hours, not just a few frames. If we look at the LT clips in Premiere, the timecode seems to match the source clip. In Final Cut, not even close.
Any ideas on where to start on this one?
If we use RedCineX to convert the R3D files, things seem to work. Also, compressor seems to have correct results. We were hoping that media encoder would be the solution as it processes these clips much faster.
We are looking for a solution that doesn't involve re-transcoding all of the footage.

Two.
First, this.
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/premierepro/cs/using/WSd9957a95a81082eb28f05af5126718c47be-800 0.html
Second, this.
Customize or load keyboard shortcuts
From the Set menu in the Keyboard Customization dialog box, choose the set of keyboard shortcuts you want to use in Premiere Pro:
Adobe Premiere Pro Factory Defaults (Adobe Premiere Pro CS5)
Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5 (Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5)
Shortcuts For Avid Xpress DV 3.5 (Adobe Premiere Pro CS5)
Shortcuts For Avid Media Composer 5 (Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5)
Shortcuts For Final Cut Pro 7.0

Why is my black and white video showing purple/green color cast from ProRes 422 h264?

When transcoding from ProRes 422 to h264 in Adobe Media Encoder, I'm seeing both green and purple color cast on my black and white video. ProRes on top, h264 on bottom.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqzkkje3ccgravb/Screenshot%202013-10-28%2013.33.27.png
Another example:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5e1qyhmycgwbpkt/Screenshot%202013-10-28%2014.14.36.png

What do you make of the fact that the same video, encoded in MPEG Streamclip does not have the issue on the same hardware, played in Quicktime Player?
A valid data point for consideration, but the only way to know with certainty is to get the image onto a calibrated TV.
Observation will always trump deduction. So...observe! (Just be sure to do it accurately with a calibrated TV.)
The Vimeo preset is creating H.264 MP4 files. AVCHD is a very specific subset of the H.264 codec, and cannot be generated by PP.

Transcoding .MTS files to ProRes 422 Audio Skips

Whenever I transcode .MTS files in Prelude (and Prelude then uses Media Encoder) the resulting ProRes 422 files have audio that skips around, is out of sync, and eventually becomes entirely non-existent. It only happens in Prelude/Media Encoder too. I've tried encoding using Final Cut Pro 7 and iFFMpeg and both those work just fine. I'd really like to use Prelude though if possible. Has anyone experienced this strange behavior?
Thanks in advance!

This is what the AVCHD structure needs to be if you want FCPX to import from a "Camera Archive". The thumbnail folder is optional, but the BDMV folder as shown needs to exist in the AVCHD package.
If thats all in order, then the import function (See button below) should work...

ProRes files act crazy and transcoding to Animation codec gets ugly

So, allegedly, the Animation codec is lossless. However, when I take something encoded with Apple ProRes 422 HQ and transcode to Animation within the Quicktime Pro software, I see noticeable differences. Including: color change and increased aliasing.
The same is true when attempting to export stills from ProRes, even in the highest, most lossless formats. I am wondering if ProRes for PC is actually not quite ready for prime time? When I import a ProRes file into After Effects, I notice the same quality drop associated with trying to transcode it to a lossless format. It seems as though ONLY QT Pro has the capability to display ProRes files properly. If this is the case, this is largely useless, since I can't then USE these ProRes files for anything. What the heck guys? I wouldn't have had clients deliver me ProRes encoded stuff if I knew that it didn't actually maintain its integrity.
Please help out as soon as possible. Clients with deadlines are waiting on a solution that doesn't involve me spending 4000 grand on a new machine and FCP.

As a test, try nesting the problem sequence in a new empty sequence then export that new sequence using QuickTime. Let us know whether or not that succeeds.
Cheers
Eddie
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Does CC 2014 eliminate the need to have Final Cut Pro and/or Compressor installed to access Apple ProRes 422?

Hello:
Just today, I was working on a Mac system that does not have any of the applications that I would have expected to need to have installed in order to do more than just decompress movie files compressed with Apple ProRes 422.
I was expecting to have to install Final Cut Studio 3, Final Cut Pro X, Compressor 4, and/or QuickTime 7 with the QuickTime Pro key; however, none of those applications are installed and I am able to create custom QuickTime Apple Pro Res422 Sequences in Premiere Pro as well as export using Apple ProRes 422. After Effects and Adobe Media Encoder also show all the Apple ProRes variations.
Does CC 2014 eliminate the need to have Final Cut Pro and/or Compressor installed to access Apple ProRes 422? Is it something happening on the OS or QuickTime level that would affect CC or CS6 in the same way?
I've done a web search, but haven't really come up with anything other than older articles about needing to have FCP installed (and I typically work on systems with Final Cut Studio 3 installed as well as CS6, CC, or CC 2014). If more detailed information is available, it would be great to be able to read up on it.
The system is a 21.5-inch iMac running Mac OS X 10.8.5, QuickTime Player 10.2, and Adobe Premiere Pro CC 2014 (8.0.0 - I know an update is available for PrPro, but it's not my system to make that change).
Thanks in advance,
Warren Heaton

Hi Emil:
I use ProRes all the time as well, but I have Final Cut Studio on my workstations.
I had not come across MindPower009's YouTube video. That explains how ProRes could be showing up without FCP or Compressor.
So, the answer to my question would be, "No, CC 2014 does not eliminate the need to have Final Cut Pro and/or Compressor installed to access Apple ProRes 422; however, if you are willing to be in violation Apple's terms of use, you can install the ProRes codecs anyway."
Even though MindPower009's YouTube video comments claim "FREE and LEGAL", it's clear from both the Apple download page and the ProRes codecs installer that Apple expects you to own at least one of their applications.
Thanks again for the link!
-Warren

ProRes 422 MOV files offline in Adobe Media Encoder 2014 (but online in Premiere)

The question is NOT about exporting PreRes files from a Windows PC, which is what I keep finding in my searches.
My client gave me ProRes 422 MOV files. I imported them into Premiere Pro CC 2014. I could see and edit them fine. But when I export them via Adobe Media Encoder, they appear to be offline. BTW, other media sources exported fine, such as the PNGs and JPGs I cut to. (I don't think it matters, but I'm attempting to make h.462 mp4s, which I do all the time, and have done with ProRes sources before using CC 2014.)
I tried exporting a short video clip (using same ProRes 422 source) from Premiere and it worked fine. Why not Adobe Media Encoder? I need to encode batches of videos with ProRes sources overnight, so exporting from Premiere is not a good option.
I'm on a Win 7 PC and I have QT Pro and iTunes (which I think also installs codecs).

Everything seems to be working fine now, though I don’t know why. I did update my iTunes (which I’d rather not even have installed on my PC because I never use it, but removing it seems to mess things up). I’ll also make sure to keep my QT updated. I thought it was because I upgraded to the paid version a couple months ago hoping to fix a similar problem, but again, it seemed to get fixed when I updated iTunes.
Thanks for getting back to me!
Bill

I have a sequence shot on the 550d/rebel T2i, I converted it to prores 422 and edited in fcp. What is the best export that i can do to preserve quality and prevent pixelation.

i have a sequence shot on the 550d/rebel T2i, I converted it to prores 422 in MPEG Streamclip and edited in fcp. What is the best export that i can do to preserve quality and prevent pixelation. Rite now, i have been just clicking on the export to quicktime function, but the quality of the footage is completely reduced and colours look desaturated and there is pixellation compared to the original camera footage. Also is there anyway i can render and export the sequence using the original footage (like an online edit or something). Also is there anyway to upgrade the final quality. I have Compressor, Dvd Studio pro, Motion, Color and Cinema tools, i dnt know if they are of any use to me and have no idea how to use hem or what they are for also.

>What is the best export that i can do to preserve quality and prevent pixelation
The best way to export is entirely dependent on what you plan to do with the exported video. For example, if you plan to go to DVD, the export process is different than if you plan for web delivery or for iPhone viewing. Compressor has presets for most final delivery formats ... start with those.
>is there anyway i can render and export the sequence using the original footage
Yes. In FCP, go to File-Export->QuickTime Movie. Check the box to make the movie Self-Contained and use Current Settings. Do NOT "Recompress All Frames." The resulting self-contained movie will play on any Mac that has the needed audio and video codecs installed.
>is there anyway to upgrade the final quality
No and maybe. While you technically cannot improve quality over the original, you can possibly 'enhance' the aesthetic quality of the video using various filters in FCP or Color.
-DH

Original and Transcoded (ProRes 422) Media

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