Progressive Segmented Frame Settings?

I was wondering if anyone could shed any light on the best preset for footage shot at 1920 x 1080p 25fps AVCHD? I only just recently learned (i say learned, still trying to wrap my head around it ) that if you use a camera's "digital cinema mode" to record at 1080p 25fps it wraps the footage in a 50i signal. I believe this process is called progressive segmented frame.
So when bringing the footage into Premiere or After Effects and dropping it on the create new sequence button it creates the settings for an interlaced piece of footage, I suppose my question is it best to force Premiere into using a progressive sequence or to let it do what it thinks is best?

I think you might be right Harm, I've only recently been looking really closely at the source footage as we have just invested in some green screen equipment.
Just testing the default sequence generated by Premiere vs a progressive sequence; the progressive appears to cause the footage to be slightly blockier.
See the pic below; the left side is in an interlaced sequence and the right in a progressive.

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FCP studio 3 support for 'progressive segmented frames'

Anyone got the new version of FCP. Do you happen to know if it handles 'progressive segmented frames' as anything other than interlaced.
My sony hvr vie shoots what it call 'progressive'. This is explained by Sony as 'scanning progressively' yet laying down to tape as interlaced. Result is that FCP won't accept it as 'progressive' and you have to treat it as interlaced.
Peter

Hi Andy, the problem is that FCP 6 does not have a capture or edit preset for PsF. It offers either Interlaced or progressive presets. PsF is neither true progressive or true interlaced. So if I'm aiming at a Progressive product say for Bluray and I want to shoot using PsF which 'scans' progressively I am stuck with having to ingest the 'progressively scanned ' footage into FCP as interlaced which it isn't.
Yes I can capture it as anything I want and render the arse off it but that's getting it wrong from the get-go.
Just as a comparison, for a long while I was shooting 'progressively' as I thought, making a progressive m2v for SD DVD and importing it into DVDSP, all the while ignorant that DVDSP ONLY does interlaced. DVDSP would accept the progressive footage into the interlaced track without complaint but the results were always degraded because of incorrect source material.
I don't want to make those same mistakes again with the BlUray format, I want my source material to be handled correctly from capture to disc. And at the moment it's a toss up, do I shoot progressivley, record it to tape as interlaced ( although not true interlaced ) orthen import it into FCP as, WHAT? interlaced or progressive ? and render the arse off it before I start working with it.
Thats my conundrum, hope its clear
Peter

Freeze frame "settings" button missing in PRE8

After determing a frame to produce a still image from, I select the freeze frame function followed by the "Export..." button. This action opens the export frame window where in PRE v7 I had the "setting" buttons to use if required. This button is not available in PRE8! I used this settings button to correct the aspect ratio when required for a still image.
Has this function been removed in PRE8? If so, how do you correct the aspect ratio for a still image? Or if this function button is available, how do I get it to appear?
(I also note that "Export" in File > Export where I can access freeze frame settings in PRE7 is NOT active i.e. not available in PRE8. I think this is the same issue??)

Gazz,
Though I am anything but a "big button guy," I would like to see the Export>Still Frame (regardless of from whence it's accessed) be simplified in both Adobe programs, PrE and PrPro. When PrPro CS4 was introduced, they took a simple process and reworked it. Then, it took 8 steps, just to do a Still Frame! With CS 4.2, things got better, but they forgot to add back in the "Add to Project" setting from earlier versions. About half the time, I do this. With a checkbox, that was easy. Half the time, I left it checked, and the other half, I unchecked it. Now, in PrPro CS4.2, it takes about 3 more steps to add the Exported Still Frame to the Project.
What I would like would be a single button, and the ability to establish a default Preset, especially a custom one. The only dialog would be, "Add to Project?" and it would be a simple radio button. Maybe even allow the user to customize that in their custom default, with a potential override available, if needed. I'd do this for both PrE and PrPro. It would take moments to set up, and then would be just a click away.
Good luck,
Hunt

My video is progressive natively, frame controls?

I have some footage shot at 1080p30 and 720p24. I am certain they are progressive, based on the field dominance FCP chooses is "none." My question is after I edit and export to compressor do I need to turn on frame controls at all? I use to always shoot at 1080 60i and had to deinterlace and change output fields to progressive and deinterlace was either better or best. Since my video is now natively progressive, can I ignore frame controls? Some video will end up on the web, some will end up on DVDs and AVCHD discs. Any difference between web and dvd media for frame controls with progressive video?

abeas wrote:
My question is after I edit and export to compressor do I need to turn on frame controls at all?
Yeah, you probably don't need to worry about Deinterlacing with Frame Controls but, depending on your output frame size(s), you might need it for Resizing.
I find that if you're not dividing by a multiple of 2 (i.e. going from 1920x1080 to something other than 960x540 or 480x270), resizing with Frame Controls makes a difference. Well, except for this odd glitch in Compressor 3.5.
Or was that (needing Frame Controls for resizing) a given?

Still Frame Settings

Trying to turn a Still Frame from Timeline into JPEG keeping the aspect ration of movie 16x9. The QT conversion option doesn't give me the setting I need. or I'm not sure which one of the bunch to select. The film is shot at 30 Frames. It's shot in HD. And I tried setting it at that rate. but the final product keeps coming out square. What do i do? THANKS andy

No, there any many, many alternatives. A good one is GraphicConverter:
http://www.lemkesoft.com/content/193/key-features.html
Try it for free, and pay the much smaller fee (than Photoshop!) if it does what you want.
Actually, Preview (part of OSX), will even do what you want.

Picture Frame Settings - How To Use

Looking all over couldn't find answer. There is a cool Setting called "Picture Frame", so how do I actually start/enable this on the iPad?

http://manuals.info.apple.com/enUS/iPad_UserGuide.pdf
Click on the above link for the pdf manual and go to page 55.

HT5622 iPhone is stuck on old ID and won't let me change the ID to get into Cloud segment of Settings. Need to get this straight so I can backup to Cloud before updating to new System

iPhone is stuck on old ID and won't let me change the ID in settings to get into Cloud. Want to sync phone to Cloud before updating the Systems. No such problem on other phone or 2 iPads linked to account. Help!

Thanks Bob,
That was just a typo.
I have three accounts set up in Mail, one of which, apart my the username which is my son's, has exactly the same settings as the one that isn't working and remember it's affecting all my devices.
I would feel happier even if I could create a fourth account on my MacBook Pro using what I know to be the correct password for the server but when I try it keeps defaulting to imap type, I don't get an option for Pop which is what I need.
Oh Bum.
K

Sync Time Frame Settings

During the original 7 months using the Z10 my emails and calendar had synced perfectly with Outlook with the Sync Time Frame of 30 days setting. Yesterday I changed the sync time frame to FOREVER and my SENT emails and sub-folders no longer synced. After changing back to 30 days, most folder synced properly immediately except for the DRAFTS folder which is still not syncing a day later.
Anyone else experience these?
A sync time frame longer than 30 days and shorter than forever would be a huge improvement - i.e.: 180 days, 365 days, 720 days.

It seems many people are having email issues with Windows Live/ Hotmail/ Outlook accounts since the Outlook outage last Thursday...I still can't get my emails to my z10, though I can now access my emails over the browser...

Render Queue Settings for HD in AE?

I have been asking alot of questions regarding HD - see my other posts:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/428077?tstart=0
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/428858?tstart=0
..and I did read this:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/AfterEffects/9.0/WS8FEBCF80-821A-43ad-BA00-05D522F59750.
Now what I want to know is how to render an AE project to an HD format. What are the real life pros and cons of the HD formats available for export in AE and how can I avoid the most common headaches/best practices associated with them.
For now there is no video, just shapes and graphics created from scratch in AE. example issues: Do I need a special video card? Do I need to put it on a "bluray" disk or can we go off my hard drive? It will be tested on a HD television that is hooked up to a network.I have cs4 and osx10.5 but only 2gigs of memory. I only want to render a 5 second video (this is ALL for testing - and when I "get it" I will create full videos etc) so memory shouldnt be an issue?
This is just proactive information gathering about HD in AE as it pertains to the render queue.

when im in the output module and i go to format options (this is where I am to choose "same as source" right?
Well I do that (Same as source flash 8 or higher) and thats cool. but
when I then change the bitrate to 7,000, it becomes a custom preset and
no longer reads "Same as source flash 8 or higher"...
Don't worry. When you take an existing preset as a starting point and customize even a single aspect, it's no longer the same as the original preset. But the important thing is that you used that as a starting point. In particular, the important part is that this preset makes sure AME keeps the frame size in the After Effects' Comp size, instead of asking it to change it in the Render Queue.
whats the deal with the advanced settings where "undershoot" is set to
90 and quality is set to good. Should I mess with those? I would
imagine I would want to change good to best
Don't worry about that. The presets in Adobe Media Encoder are (or should be!) designed to aknowledge that not everyone is an encoding specialist. There's no need for you to deal with every obscure parameter out there. The preset you picked is good to get HD resoltuion at web data rates, so you're only raising the data rate for that purpose. It becomes a custom preset only in the sense that it's not exactly the same as the original. The reason why there isn't a preset with a higher data rate to begin with, is because... you probably would prefer H264 encoding for that. The main reasons to avoid H264 were player compatibility (it'll be less and less an issue now that Flash supports it) and the processing power required to play it at HD resolutions.
It's important to realize that all HD content that is broadcast is
interlaced. The 24P stuff has 3:2 pulldown added for broadcast, the
progressive stuff is broadcast as pairs of identical fields which give
the illusion of being true progressive.
This is all true, Rick.
But it can also make him (or humans in general ) feel like this is terribly complicated. Which of course it can be, but there will be plenty of time for dealing with that. In some contexts, illusion of progressive and true progressive are almost the same thing. Things like PsF (progressive segmented frames) used for this... are progressive from the point of view of perception (even if the container is not) and also from the point of view of rendering a file from After Effects. The clever tricks come later, and they could even be somebody else's problem
All this doesn't contradict what you said in any way. Just to keep things simple, a 29.97 fps 1080 file rendered without fields can be a production master. And certainly can be used for testing on an HDTV.

How do you change sequence settings in Premiere Pro CS6, and earlier?

Is it possible to change a sequences settings once you've set up the sequence?
In Sequence Settings everything is grayed out so I can't change it.

What type of camera did you record your AVCHD footage on? The reason I ask is because I'm thinking the most likely reason it thought your video was interlaced is because several AVCHD camera's shoot footage that they call "1080p" but it's not actually normal progressive footage. It's actually PsF footage. (Progressive segmented frame) Which with this footage it just records both fields, so what ends up happening is that Premiere ends up reading the footage like it's interlaced which it basically is, except unlike normal interlaced footage this PsF has both fields. Anyways though you can find out if this is the case by using the modify>interpet option from inside your bin, then if it says that you files field order is anything besides progressive then you'll know you will need to conform the footage to progressive as explained in this article in order to make Premiere work with it properly. Although this issue might not be the same thing you're experincing I just figured I'd mention that since it's fairly common place for AVCHD cameras to record PsF.
You may want to check out this article although it may not apply to you depending on what type of camera you're using. Although they cover basically all the major AVCHD camera makers
http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workflow_em_part_1_b enign_psf_versus_malignant_psf/
http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workflow_part_7_adob e_premiere_pro_cs5.5.x/
http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workflow_part_6_tepp er_asks_the_camera_manufacturers8230/
They talk about several Cannon, Panasonic and Sony avchd cameras that all currently record footage this way.

Progressive footage for DVDSP

I've been doing some experimental encodes from compressor as a result of 'white papers' on a few forums. I imported interlaced footage into compressor and using encoding options exported it as a 'progressive' mpeg2. Opened DVDSP and added a track. Never noticed it before but DVDSP reports the track as interlaced even without placing the footage on it. When I place the 'progressive' footage on the interlaced track DVDSP still reports the track as interlaced in the inspector?
There is no option in DVDSP to change the track from interlaced to progressive.
Whats's going on here?
Is 'interlaced' an unchangeable default format in DVDSP.
Is it therefore a waste of time DE-interlacing footage with compressor before importing it into DVDSP.
Is DVDSP RE-interlacing the footage?
Peter

Thanks for the response. Here's the whole story. I bought a Sony HVRV1 shooting Pal 25fps, as it boasted 'Progressive' but it also shoots Interlaced. The short story is that it turns out to be 'progressive segmented frames, laid to tape as interlaced' I had a load of problems finding this out. FCP treats it as interlaced, won't recognise it as progressive.
So I abandoned the 'Progressive segmented frames' and shot Interlaced.
As a result of 'authoritative' articles on a well known forum everyone was advised that we 'must' deinterlace. More red herrings. I took this advice at its word and I'm at this juncture now having wasted over a week encoding interlaced footage to progressive to find out from yourself that the DVD spec is by default, interlaced. I'm grateful for the heads up,thanks.
One more thing you say
"Material converted to progressive with Compressor will look better on progressive displays (such as computers) because you're scrubbing away the interlacing, so there is some benefit to that"
All computer media players that I use will deinterlace footage for viewing anyway so any encoding is pointless. Picture the process. The footage is interlaced, encoded as progressive by compressor, reinterlaced by DVDSP? I couldn't see how this would improve how it looks, seems it might be why I'm so disappointed in the quality of my DVDs.
I think you've solved my question and I'm one step closer to getting a 'clean' workflow.
Thanks
Peter

Is 1080 at 24 the same as 1080p24?

Hi,
I'm a little confused. I'm trying to output a 720p24 HDV project for viewing on an HDCAM deck that only handles 1080i, but WILL do 24fps. I need to use Compressor to recompress it, and I'm only finding 24 fps settings when talking about 1080p, not 1080i. Is this the same?
Thanks

Kona 3 is the only card that will cross-convert from 720p24 to 1080p24 (or PsF24)
PsF=Progressive Segmented Frame. This is Sony's implementation of progressive frames. It is the method in which a progressive frame is recorded to tape.
With a decklink card you would need to paste your sequence into a 1080p24 timeline and render it, then output at 1080p24 to HDCAM.
Frame rates: When most people talk about 24p what they really mean is 23.976 which is abbreviated to 23.98. 23.98 is compatible with NTSC in that when you add 3:2 pulldown you get 29.97. It is intended for footage that will stay in a digital realm. (Experts, I know I'm oversimplifying) True 24p is just that, video that runs at 24 fps. The Sony Cine Alta line of products support this frame rate. It is generally intended for porjects that will end up on film. However 23.98 can easily be transferred to film as well. Confused yet? It's a beast to wrap your head around. Just know that unless you shot with high end camera (I'm talking about an F23, a Viper, etc) your 24fps footage is really running at 23.98fps.
So the ultimate question becomes are you on the West Side or are you closer to the Valley and is it worth it to spend the money to do this right? If it is worth it to do this right then I would suggest going to West Post Digital in Santa Monica or Alpha Dogs in Burbank to do your layoff.
Take a self contained QT that matches your sequence settings to either of these places and they will know what to do.
West Post - ask for Kenny
Alpha Dogs - ask for Terry

Pixel Aspect Ratio and ciphering type of footage-CS6

CS6- updated 12\18\13 V-11.03
Hi All,
A few questions about:
Pixel Aspect Ratio and ciphering type of footage. Bare with me as I touch on two different aspects of what I feel are related:
1. Setting up a Comp-
Having AE decide on the correct footage being used- Via >Import footage,.(to Folder) then drag it on, or into the 'make comp icon' where AE is supposed to do a 'best guess' for the comp settings. Be it square pix or otherwise. What are the second value in brackets ? See pic
2. Interpolation-
When using two diff footage sources- If using two different source footages in a comp. Is this where I should interplolate my footage to match the existing footage and the comp settings (If I have choosen NOT to pre-comp that secondary footage?)
3. Seperating fields-
How come footage that a camera manufacturer claims to be shooting in Progressive 30 or 24p is showing up as interlaced in my comp's CP? The manual to the cam says 30p or 24p or 60i The footage was shot at 30p (for sure)
Here is a screen grab of AE's 'best guess' of that footage, showing it with an UPPER field render; indicative of HD Interlaced footage and then in the inerpolate settings - 'kinda confirming it.
Now for the way out- Render:
4. If that is in fact Interlaced and I then want to reduce the size of that 1920 footage to 66% size... Do I need to do anything in particular at this point?
For some reason I am getting an error on my end when trying to export as an AVI and reducing size to 1280
5. Is this from the Field render of interlaced challenge?
I ended up with a couple of errors and then aborted the whole file and re-imported to start over with this error. Which happend again after a redoux
So I sent it over to Prem Pro to export those MTS Files as a movie and noted AGAIN the reference to Interlaced video. "upper and lower" Prem Pro was able to use the same MTS files and export a working movie. (so those files were not corrupt BTW) Yet Note PP's output reference to that footage again as Interlaced would be...
Thanks for any clarity on those "5" questions... NC

Thanks for the details Rick.
Thanks for the insight on #1
Ref #2, You should never change the interpretation of Pixel aspect ratio on footage unless you know for a certainty that it is wrong. For example, open Photoshop or Illustrator and create a new document that is 720 X 480 pixels and AE will always interpret the image as rectangular pixels because that is a standard rectangular pixel frame size.
Unless you specifically created the image in Photoshop with rectangular pixels it is square pixels so the interpretation must be changed to avoid distortion.
--Did you mean to write:
Unless you specifically created the image in Photoshop with SQUARE pixels using a rectangle layout? I am not trying to bust your blz here, I am trying to understand the unknown. (for me)
So it may very well be AE mis-guessing the footage and the Upper first is a mistake on AE's part and I need to test it to find out? On that note...
Ref#3, Separating fields must be done right. Some 1080P footage is interpreted as having fields. This may be incorrect and if there is a question you MUST test the footage. Test the footage by making sure that the fields are being separated
How do I make sure the fields are being seperated? Does the window as in pic two from the top of my post confirm that or is there another test?
Then I do the following:
then selecting the footage in the project panel and choosing Create Composition from Selection, then opening the Composition settings, doubling the frame rate and stepping through the footage a frame at a time. If the footage is really interlaced then each of the frames will be different. (IE: 29.94 to 59.94fps) OK
If the field order is reversed then motion will be in the right direction then reverse, then go back to the right direction. ---I did not understand? Are you referring to Upper and Lower reverse? Direction, as in fwd and back in Time line? Sorry unlclear on my end...
Oh and HFR footage? HFR? High frame rate??
One last thing, Do all cameras shoot anamorphic, or could they as AE is showing my MTS files; are Square? (1.00) Pic #1
@Dave- You -
At 1080, a lot of footage is interlaced, and evidently your camera made interlaced footage
Me- How do you know? because of the 2nd pic and upper field first indication?
You-Even if you know for a fact that it was shot 30p, the camera captures the entire frame... but it records it as two fields. They give it a fancy name: Progressive Segmented Frame.
Me- Is this typical false advertisement of the sales divison of brands like not telling you what CMOS or CCD is in a cam just slapping HD 1080p on the side of the box?
You-AE will treat it as an entire frame if you interpret it as having a field order of None.
Me- Won't that be a problem mis leading AE on an interpret?
Thanks Gents for the precise details.
Best
NC

Handling 25p/30p footage shot using "PsF" method in FCP X?

Most consumer camcorders that provide a Progressive shooting mode use a system called Progressive segmented Frames (PsF).
Basically they shoot interlaced footage but the 2 fields are recorded at the same instant instead of sequentially as in normal interlaced video.
When combined, this creates a frame which should be virtually identical to a normal progressive one.
PsF is used because it is a cheap and easy way of enabling interlaced equipment to shoot and edit progressive video. Panasonic calls it Digital Cinema Mode and Canon's name is Cinema Mode or PF.
So what project properties in FCP X should be chosen?
1. Progressive or Interlaced?
2. Does it actually matter which is used?
3. What settings should be used when outputting to DVD, Blu-ray or the web to ensure the progressive quality is preserved?

As nobody replied in the first 5 minutes ( ) I did some further trawling of the web and came up with what is possibly the perfect answer together with reasons, posted by TecnoTurd*.
http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psfs_missing_workflow_part_ 10_fcp_x/
This is one of a series of related articles concerning Benign and Malignant PsFs.
From what I can deduce, most consumer camcorders produce Malignant PsFs, which simply means that the editing system thinks they are interlaced and treats them as such, thereby reducing their quality.
Apparently selecting a Progressive project is not enough and you have to force the Inspector to change the clips' status from 1080i to 1080p as described later in the article.
My Panasonic SD800 produces malignant PsF video but after following the steps detailed, I converted them to proper 1080p.
So when we get some decent weather I will get down to some serious testing of progressive video.
* Unintentional typo

Importing from CANON XA10

Now I realise that some folk may have the US version of the XA10 but this topic is regarding the the European model.
According to Canon this camera records 1080@50i by default ( option to record at 25pfs) However when using Final Cut7's Log & Transfer/ Settings: import as ProRes, the clips are listed as 25P, yes 25P.
Now then when you bring the clips onto a timeline, the recommended settings to match the clips (according to Apple) show up as NO FIELD DOMINANCE.
Very odd !
What does all this mean.Well I can not produce a SD/DVD from this footage via FCP without terrible interlacing issues.
Apparantly Canon were not aware of this and began looking into it. Needless to say I am still awaiting a response. Maybe it's something that I am doing wrong, or maybe it is a Final Cut 7 issue and has been resolved in FinalCut X.
If there is anyone out there who knows what I'm on about, then please feel free to contribute.

Hi All,
From an XA10 Forum
The XA10 records 25p (PAL) and 30p (NTSC) as PsF (Progressive Segmented Frame).
What that means is that each progressive frame is divided into 2 fields and recorded as 50i (or 60i).
When importing the files, the NLE must understand to interpret the footage as 25p.
Some NLEs (Premiere Pro CS 5.5) will detect the PsF automatically and interpret correctly, other NLEs may need to be instructed.
The biggest error is for the NLE to tag the footage as true interlaced and then apply a deinterlacing algorithm in order to produce a 25p file.
Once you sort out the workflow for your particular NLE, it's not a big deal- you just have to figure it out.
DM

Progressive Segmented Frame Settings?

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