Proper Color Management from Indesign- PDF- Printer

I can't get my head around this problem and it's been bugging me for a very long time. Maybe you can enlighten me on this?
Right, I know (heard), that when sending a PDF document into Offset Printer, it shouldn't have embeded ICC profiles (for whatever reasons). Here comes my problem: my Indesign is set to AdobeRGB for RGB and ISO Coated v2 (ECI) for CMYK images. When I create a new document and place in three same TIFF files, but each one with a different ICC profile (AdobeRGB/sRGB/ISO Coated V2) and then export this document into PDF (Acrobat 4 PDF 1.3, no color conversion and no profile embedding (in Output tab)), only the image with AdobeRGB looks exactly like I saw it in Indesign. The image in sRGB is more saturated and the CMYK image is different as well). This is also visible after printing out this document on Xerox 700.
Now, if I export the same document into PDF and choose to embed the ICC profiles, all three images look pretty much like they do in Indesign (and even as each other, except the CMYK one being a little bit off).
I looked into color settings in my Acrobat and found a strange thing. The working color profile for RGB space is AdobeRGB (which is correct), but for CMYK it is "Monitor RGB - sRGB IEC.....) - and when I try to change this to ISO Coated V2, hit OK, close Acrobat and open the PDF file again, it is set back to "Monitor RGB - sRGB IEC...." for CMYK color space.
So now I am confused, why images in PDF file that has no embeded ICC profiles look different from what I see in Indesign - is it normal? Or is my Color settings wrong? What would be the proper settings then?
And my other question: When I place a grayscale image into Indesign, it looks a lot darker than it looked in Photoshop. But when I enable the Overprint preview, they look OK. Now my concern is, what is correct? I don't want the images to come out so dark from print, but I can't really brighten them up any more in Photoshop, because there they look all right.

I try to stay optimistic about Adobe color management, but it really is broken. This thread is just another example of the problem.
Monitor profiles aside, the issue is the destination CMYK matching the print condition. Here we need a conversion to ISO Coated v2 (ECI).
Or do we? If the original PDF is all CMYK, Adobe's default answer is "No Conversion Necessary". You could have US Web Coated SWOP v2 going in, it doesn't matter. If this gets placed in the new InDesign, then re-output PDF/X with ISO Coated v2 Output Intent, you essentially have a false output intent in the new PDF that does not correlate with the original file.
Then, when you soft proof the original and the new on-screen, there is an appearance shift. But don't worry, it's OK, the numbers are the same. Which begs the question – if the numbers are OK, which appearance is correct?
So let's switch gears. Start all over, and this time try to maintain color appearance. That means the US Web Coated SWOP numbers will change in the conversion to ISO Coated. Incoming is PDF/X-1a, with US Web Output Intent. This is placed in InDesign and imposed. Now re-output to PDF again, this time "Convert to Destination", NOT preserving numbers.
Open up the PDF. We still have the blasted appearance shift! InDesign doesn't recognize the Output Intent in the original. All of the CMYK color in the original is Device, so InDesign leaves all the number values alone.
Back to the original PDF, in Acrobat. Since InDesign can't do the conversion, it has to be done here. Is it easy? Depends on your definition of easy. True, the PDF has the Output Intent. The problem is PDF/X-1a is not a format that is meant to be refried. If the Acrobat working space is ISO Coated, it will treat the entire PDF as source CMYK ISO coated, because – don't forget – it's Device color. Device = Uncalibrated. Convert to ISO, no CMYK values will change.
That means you have to change Acrobat CMYK working space to US Web. Now convert to the new Output Intent – ISO Coated. Don't forget to enable Preserve Black. Finally! A conversion. Let's just hope any JPEGs in the PDF survive getting refried.
The PDF can now be placed and imposed in InDesign. Just remember to reset your Acrobat Color Settings now that you've fixed the broken PDF.
Confused yet? It gets a lot better than that. What if whoever produced the original PDF didn't bother with PDF/X, or including profiles. Then you have mystery meat.
Mystery = broken. You can't go anywhere because you don't know where to start. Sure, the Acrobat CMYK working is the assumed color space of CMYK content in the PDF. But is that really the correct CMYK?
Probably not.

Similar Messages

PDFs from InDesign for print then web?

The workflow is supposed to be: we simply take the PDF files which were created from InDesign and then sent to our printer, and give them to our web service company who has our online edition finished by morning. But we're upgrading our photo processing for the print edition, which results in overly bright photos for printing on newsprint. With a 48 page tiny-town newspaper, it would be a major problem to replace all of the photos in the layout with specially processed ones for web. But we need to have PDFs for our web service company that contain, richer, higher contrast photos for web.
Is there some trick other than manually processing new photos for every page and manually re-linking each one on every page? Maybe CS4 has some feature that makes this easy, i.e., automated web version of an InDesign layout, i.e., links to an alternate folder of photos just for a web version?
CS2 / Mac OS 10.4.11 / various Mac hardware

RGB-workflow is just a way to do things... You can do it in at least CS2, CS3 and CS4 softwares, propably with earlier versions too. It basically means that you adjust your images in some wide RGB gamut, like AdobeRGB, then save them without making CMYK conversion and place them to indesign layout as RGB images. When you export your PDF, you make that RGB-CMYK conversion to all images at once.
Normally people can use same adjustments for both web- and print images. When image is adjusted well, icc-profile that will be used for RGB-CMYK converion will take care of fine tuning like compensating midtones and Total Ink Limits...
In InDesign CS4 you can use Photoshop PSD images with adjustment layers. If you really have to make some adjustment that would be nice to get rid off in indesign, you may toggle visibility of those adjustment layers in InDesigns Object Layer Options tool.
I still suggest that you try to fix your workflow so that you don´t have to make any extra adjustments to images for printing after you have once placed them to indesign layout. It should be possible, millions of publishers do that every day...

Indesign & PDF printing problems

Hello!
I have a paper to be printed out on a Laser Printer (600-1200)
It is a black and white document.
The problem is that the results are very different, when you print directly from Indesign CS3, (which is the Indesign Document), & PDF. The simple document to printed out contains editable text + object graphics.
When you print the document DIRECTLY from InDesign CS3, on the black and white laser printer, the result is nice and smooth color plates.
BUT, when I export the document to a PDF, and print out on the same printer, everything is rasterized (dots).
The settings in export to PDF is high quality, and I also tried selecting quality 2. (which is said to be the best for laser printers.
In the print directly from InDesign CS3, it is the program's own settings, but if I print out as PDF its the printer settings.
Someone who knows what the problem might be, why so different kind of printouts?
Grateful for tips and solution to the mystery!

You haven't said what printer this is. It makes a difference if it is Postscript, and what the settings are in your preferences for handling of Black when printing directly from ID.
To be sure you get solid black text when you export, make sure there is no color profile conversion, or that you have selected preserve numbers.
>When you print the document DIRECTLY from InDesign CS3, on the black and white laser printer, the result is nice and smooth color plates.
You lost me here. What color plates? You said this was a B&W document.
Peter

InDesign PDF printing with errors but only in browser

Hello,
I've created a PDF poster and uploaded it to dropbox and put a link to it on my website. I want people to be able to open the PDF in the browser and print it immediately without having to download it. Unfortunately when the link to the PDF is clicked on and the poster printed, some of the objects within the PDF have moved - some items near the top seem to have shifted downwards while others have stayed where they are. However when I print the file direct from Adobe reader, this doesn't happen, it prints normally.
This is what the poster should look like, and what it looks like when printed from Adobe reader:
This is what the poster looks like when its printed from a browser:
As you can see something strange has happened to some of the objects near the top of the page, they appear to have been 'pushed down' in some way. We've tried saving the PDF as various different versions and with a variety of different settings, and although occasionally this might change the look of the printed document - the errant objects may move to different locations, this never solves the problem.
N.B. I've had the same problem when printing from some PDF readers other than Adobe reader.
Any help would be much appreciated, thank you for your time.

Thank you for responding!
The browser doesn't open the reader, it just opens the PDF in a new window. This is the case in all browsers i've tried. But I should add that when the PDF first opens in this new window, it appears error free. It is only when print is clicked, and the print preview appears that the errors show up.
In response to your points about transparency (which I don't know about) and an interactive button, the PDF was created in InDesign just using what I assume where the default settings. So if I were to recreate the PDF in InDesign, with these complex functions disable would this solve the problem? If so could you tell me how to do that?
Thanks very much for your help,

CS3 color management won't match prints

Okay, I know there are a lot of boneheds who can't figure out how to set up color in Bridge and CS3 but I am at my wits end on this so bear me out.
Windows XP and CS3
Bridge is set to; Enable color management in Bridge
RAW conversion is SRGB
CS3 color settings/working space set to SRGB
Print color management is set to SRGB and Photoshop manages colors
Printer is set to "application manages colors" (HP B9180)(btw, I have also tried it set to SRGB)
Image looks the same on Bridge, RAW conversion, CS3 and print screen (dark)Image looks LIGHTER when viewed with any other program (including windows picture and fax viewer, HP print program, Paint Shop Pro and online) and prints to match the lighter image both on my HP and from my lab!
The closest I have been able to get to a total sync is to set Photoshop's color settings to "Monitor color," and uncheck the box in Bridge that says "apply color management settings in Bridge." In that case, Bridge and CS3 produce a lighter image but RAW conversion is still darker. Plus, who the hell wants to use monitor color in Photoshop!?

That's pretty much it David... I could get Photoshop to match my prints but then any other program would show the prints as being waaaay off-color.
Today I bought a spider2express and color balanced my monitor. Now everything seems to look in sync and my prints match very close (a little warm for my tastes..). Tech support at Photoshop told me it was a calibration issue but I thought that was bull... i mean, how can calibration make an image that looks different in two different programs look the same? Well, it does. As far as I understand it now (layman's terms)when you look at an image in windows viewer ot explorer or any other non-color management program you are looking at the image based on your monitor profile. When you look at the same image in photoshop the program uses it's own color management which then gets filtered through your monitor program to your eyes (but not to the printer). If your monitor profile is bad, the image looks bad.
Or something like that :)

BRIDGE Color management when creating PDF

Hello!
I have the following problem.
If I select photos in the BRIDGE (Creative Suite 6) and then go to OUTPUT, I can create a PDF.
in my case the PDF is created correctly. But when printing on my Epson 7900 I get the error message file (PDF) not colormanagt
I have synced my color settings on the Creative Suite, and is set to Keep the tick in beteen color profile.
HOW and WHERE can I set the color profile for the BRIDGE PDF. I use Adobe Acrobat X Pro.
Maybe someone knows the solution.
Sinceerely Emal

thanks for your answer!
I have made your settings but I still get the error message.
Do you have to make the settings for the color management in acrobat or bridge?
Emal

Color Management and Canon i960 printer

When I go to print from Aperture it says to turn off the Canon color management driver. How do I do this?

It depends on the printer driver. My Epson driver has a special, color section. However my simple Canon pixma doesn't have this. It either automatically turns color management off (in PS and Aperture) Or you have to use a workaround (when printing form e.g. Illustrator) By selecting the sRGB profile in the colorsync tab.
So you're best option at this point is to contact Canon support: Luckily for you, they describe how to print using ICC-profiles on their website:
How to use custom profiles in printing
For printing using a custom, user-made or third-party profiles, follow the procedures below. ColorSync color processing based on the custom profile can be performed by the application, or by the printer driver.
1. Specifying an ICC Profile within an Application
2. Open the image you want to print in an application. Edit/retouch the image as needed.
3. Check that the correct ICC profile has been assigned, select the item that allows the application to manage colors, then specify the profile for printing. For example, from the Print or Print with Preview screen of Adobe Photoshop, select 'Photoshop Manages Colors', then select a profile as the printer profile. At this time, please clear the 'Black Point Compensation' checkbox.
The ICC profiles installed for Canon photo paper appear as follows.
Note: The profile names for other manufacturers' papers will appear differently.
(For example: Canon Pro9000 PR1)
(1) Printer model name
(2) Media type
Each letter pair represents its respective Media type.
PR = Canon Photo Paper Pro and Pro II
SP: = Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy
MP: = Canon Matte Photo Paper
SG: = Canon Photo Paper Plus Semi-gloss
GL: = Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy II
PT: = Canon Photo Paper Pro Platinum
Note: If your printer does not support one of the above paper types, the corresponding profile will not be installed. Please see the on-screen manual of your printer for supported paper types.
(3) Print quality
The numbers correspond to the numbers on the print quality slide bar in the [Quality & Media] dialog box opened from the Print screen of the driver. The lower the number, the finer the quality.
4. Select the command to print from your application to bring up the Print screen.
In Mac OS X 10.5 and 10.6, select Color Matching from the drop-down menu, and then select 'ColorSync'.
Note: If you are using Adobe Photoshop CS2 or newer and have selected 'Let Photoshop Determine Colors', the 'Color Matching' from the Print Options pop-up menu is automatically set to 'ColorSync.'
Using earlier versions of Mac OS X, from the Print dialogue, select Color Options from the drop-down menu, set 'Color Correction': 'None'.
5. Select Quality & Media from the drop-down menu. Set the Media Type and print quality settings to the same parameters as those in the custom profile.
6. Click 'Print' to print your image.
Message was edited by: Ir. Bob

Colour Management from Indesign

How do I colour manage from IDesign to improve my laser copier output accuracy?

First, you need an accurate color profile for the printer ( and laser printers basically need recalibrating every day for really accurate color -- they're sensitve to things like temperature and humididy, and color can change thoughout the day, or even during a long print run), and then you need to turn off color management in the printer control panel, and finally, specify the correct output profile as the destination in the print dialog.

Proper color workflow with CMYK inkjet printer

Hi, I work in an academic science group that has a networked HP DesignJet 800ps printer (postscript RIP). Unlike many inkjets, it appears to be a true CMYK printer - that is, our i1 Match software recognizes it as a CMYK device. We do all our printing in house - we don't have to worry about commercial printing or publishing, and our color management needs are basically confined to trying to have the printer's output match what we see on our monitors when we print photos in Photoshop or posters in Illustrator.
Having previously worked only with RGB printers and in Photoshop, I am pretty much lost now as to how to set up our color management workflow. (And don't even ask about my colleagues. :-)) I've never had to worry about either CMYK workspaces or printers before. I want to keep things as simple as possible for the staff here, given that none, including myself, are graphics specialists.
I've looked at the "Color Workflows for Adobe Creative Suite 3" document published by Adobe, and although it is very meticulous, none of the examples seem to match our situation. Specifically, all the info regarding CMYK printing involves working with commercial presses, which is not relevant to us.
I would like to avoid making my colleagues work in different color spaces depending on whether they are working in Illustrator or Photoshop - ideally, I would like it if we could stay in RGB at all times. First question: Is this unrealistic given that we have a CMYK printer?
No doubt I will have more questions, but I want to start simple for now. Thanks for helping me out - this is not my area of expertise.

> profile them as RGB devices" (to quote the book). The printers that I've profiled in the past with i1 worked this way.
As Peter points out in his post, it is most likely that your RIP is a CMYK RIP (most RIP's are.) If that is the case, you'll be profiling a CMYK device, not an RGB device (as you have in the past.) It is a totally different exercise to profile a CMYK device - ink limits and Kgen are variables that must be dealt with.
> Yes, details would be very helpful. Thanks.
Color management is all about moving from one device/color space to another device/color space while maintaining color appearance as closely as possible.
1) Based on the description of your workflow, step one is to create your original art in a well-behaved RGB color space (like Adobe98) while viewing it on a well-calibrated monitor.
2) If your final output is to be on the HP 800ps, step two would be to preview that art on your monitor as it would look on the HP. This is called soft-proofing - a process by which the art is viewed through the HP profile on-screeen so you can see what happens to all those beautiful, rich RGB colors when they're squeezed into the smaller gamut of the HP profile.
To do this, you go to View > Proof Set-Up > Custom, and choose the HP 800ps profile from the pop-up of all the profiles on your system. You can also choose from among 4 rendering intents - Relative Colorimetric, Perceptual, Absolute Colorimetric, and Saturation. Choosing the correct rendering intent is key - this willl determine how Photoshop deals with the out-of-gamut colors. Without getting into an explanation of what each RI does, the important thing is to choose the one that LOOKS the best on screen. There's no magic to it. In general, for photographic images, you'll be choosing from Relative or Perceptual. For vector graphics (which it sounds like you're doing), throw Saturation into the mix as well. Just try them and see which looks best.
Additionally, be sure to check "Black Point Compensation."
This will give you a good idea of what the final printed version will look like. While you're in soft-proof mode, you can edit the RGB file to alter the way out-of-gamut colors appear. In fact, there's no reason why you couldn't create your art from the beginning while in soft-proof mode. Using a well-built profile and a good calibrated monitor, you should be able to get an extremely close match between monitor and print.
3) When you print, be sure to choose the same profile/rendering intent that you used in Proof Setup.
Again, it all starts with a good profile. Good luck.

InDesign PDF prints bleeds

Hi..
I exported a .pdf from InDesign CS2. There is a .25" bleed all around.
I opened it in adobe reader & I print it out & I get the bleeds printed too.
I do not want the bleed printed, how do I fix this? I do not remember this happening before. When I print from InDesign the bleeds are cropped off. If you need any more info let me know.
Thank you.
Jules

You said "I exported a .pdf from InDesign CS2. There is a .25" bleed all around."
And then you said bleed wasn't selected in your export settings..
You won't get bleed if you haven't selected to get it. So it must have been selected when you exported that particular
document. There are two bleed settings. One is the setting you define in the export dialogue. That needs to be set at 0.
But you might also have a check mark in Use Document Bleed Settings which is OK if you don't have a bleed defined for
the document, but if you do, then that's what you will get.
Changing you Reader printing settings to print the full size page area is simply ignoring the bleed.
k

InDesign PDF prints greyed and not crisp

InDesign file print solid and crisp but when converted to PDF it is greyed and faded. Created PDF with "Press QUlaity PDF preset" and also tried it through Distiller. Color settings are "North American Prepress 2" in Indesign and U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 in Acrobat - how do I resolve this?

Can you post some screen shots and colour build values in InDesign

Color management for web and print.

Hi there. I would like to post my images and have them print ready for clients. When I read about both of these I find one thing for web and one thing for print. I don't want to edit them twice. What would you suggest for easiest workflow? I like to post the images in an online gallery for my clients and if I really like them maybe use on my homepage. Do I have to edit twice or what is the optimal setting for a photographer. I do mostly portraits --family, baby, couples, etc.
I am pretty well versed in actual editing processes but my understanding in this portion is still lacking. I am trying prophoto rgb on photos today, but will this compromise my online quality?

brwmmw wrote:
…I knew of this option but did not know if it was optimal quality…
You define the quality of the saved image in the Save for Web and Devices dialog box.
brwmmw wrote:
…I have just been… using same files for web and print. I wanted to increase quality across the board in print and web…
That is absurd! (Sorry.) By doing that you are generating unconscionably and unnecessarily large image files. You're clients won't like that.
Remember that you have no control over how anyone sees your images on the web. Something like 97% of Internet users are running non-color-managed web browsers and uncalibrated monitor.
You and you're clients are best served when you stick to the lowest common denominator, namely sRGB images, for web.
brwmmw wrote:
…What mode do you use for prints?…
Personally, I like to stay in 16-bit ProPhoto RGB when I print my images myself. If sending them to a pro lab, I discussed it with the lab techs. But I have gathered a lot of experience by now. One really has to know exactly what one's doing to edit in ProPhoto RGB and stay in that color space. If sending my images to a cheap lab like Costco, I stick to 8-bit tagged images that I soft-proof with the specific printer profile that will be used by the local store.
You should—and probably do—know that ProPhoto RGB has a very wide gamut that includes colors that cannot be printed by many printers, and it's up to you to compensate for that. If you run into problems with ProPhoto RGB consider converting to Adobe RGB for print. Make sure the printer drivers that will be used to print actually support 16-bit printing, otherwise convert to 8-bit.
Since you're a pro, I would warmly recommend you watch the video tutorials comprising the "From Camera to Print - Fine Art Printing" series by Jeff Schewe and Michael Reichmann, that are/were available for download from the Luminous Landscape. They're working on a new 2011 edition, but the 2008 edition was just superb. Best $35 or so I've spent in a long time.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/camera-print.shtml
Wo Tai Lao Le (no connection to Adobe or Schewe/Reichmnan/Luminous_Landscape.)
我太老了

HP Deskjet 5100 Stuck on Grayscale - Color Management Options unavailable in printer settings

Hello!
My printer is an HP Deskjet 5100 on Mac 10.8.5. It is stuck on grayscale when printing. No matter what program I try to print in I do not get the color management option, even when checking in the advanced options.
On photoshop it's also stuck to grayscale.
I have printed a test page successfully in color. But for some reason no program will print in anything but grayscale.
I have tried to update the drivers, but according to the HP website/driver check everything is up to date.
Other information:
In printer options, I can't even check my cartridge levels. I receive the following message: Information Not Available
In ColorSync Utilites, under Devices, it says Printer Mode is: "Gray". When I try to assign a different color profile to it, it doesn't take.
I have done a hard reset on the printer.
I have removed completely and resynced the printer with the computer again in System Pref/Print & Scan
Any information would be amazing. I have checked every forum I could find online,
This question was solved.
View Solution.

Hi,
Your printer is not compatible with Mountain Lion, therefore the Mac use a Generic PCL driver which is Black & White driver only:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01856359&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=304431&task...
You may try a 3rd party driver as HPIJS, it seems to support your printer and will more likely provide you a better results than a generic driver.
Be sure to install any of the 3 required downloads before adding the print queue:
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting/macosx/hpijs
Shlomi
Say thanks by clicking the Kudos thumb up in the post.
If my post resolve your problem please mark it as an Accepted Solution

Looking for detailed literature on Aperture3 color management for fine art printing

I am looking for a coherent , cohesive book or tutorial on Aperture 3 color management capability for fine art printing. Thanks.

Sad to report: does not exist, or if it does, is a closely held secret (by, imho, a coven of eyeless warlocks).
Color on OS X is likely -- just imho -- going to go through a transition which is not going to be helpful, in the short term, for Mac users for whom color is a vital part of their work. X-Rite has, afaict, cast their lot with Adobe. ICC profiling looks like a dead end at this point. Apple is either going to have to leap-frog the competition, or use their technology.
One of the best resources I know is North-Light Images. Up-to-date, Aperture-specific, authoritative information on printing is rarer than superb photography.

PDF exported from InDesign is printing distorted, large

This PDF is distributed to different people in our field to print, and for some reason, all of a sudden this month some are having issues when printing. I've attached what the PDF SHOULD look like (in JPEG format), and how it is printing for them. I cannot get the issue to replicated - every time I print it prints fine. I'm out of ideas!

Unfortunately, you have no control over how users might butcher your piece. The printed page you show above was obviously printed in the wrong orientation, fit to a larger page size than was used...all entirely possible with Acrobat/Reader irrespective of how your PDF was constructed and deployed. Each user sets his/her own Acrobat/Reader view and print defaults. All you can do is send the PDF.

Proper Color Management from Indesign- PDF- Printer

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