Re: (forte-users) Arrayfields & Tabbing
I believe Ctrl-Tab will take you forward out of the arrayfield and to the next widget. We have some accessability code in our base window class to handle various special keyboard commands, but I think Ctrl-Tab is standard in Forte. (of course I've been wrong before :-) )
Steven Barnes
"Burns, Troy" <Troy.Burnsvacationclub.com> 11/13/00 09:57AM >>>I've looked in the archive, and found the examples of tabbing into an
arrayfield. That is no problem. My question is, how do you tab out
of an arrayfield? Shift-Tab will "back-tab" out of the arrayfield. How
do you "forward-tab"?
TIA,
Troy Burns
MVCI
troy.burnsvacationclub.com
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Ctrl+Tab works between tabsheets.
Jagadish
"Steve Barnes" <DHS9126dhs.state.il.us> on 11/13/2000 11:22:22
To: <forte-userslists.xpedior.com>, <Troy.Burnsvacationclub.com>
cc:
Fax to:
Subject: Re: (forte-users) Arrayfields & Tabbing
I believe Ctrl-Tab will take you forward out of the arrayfield and to the next
widget. We have some accessability code in our base window class to handle
various special keyboard commands, but I think Ctrl-Tab is standard in Forte.
(of course I've been wrong before :-) )
Steven Barnes
"Burns, Troy" <Troy.Burnsvacationclub.com> 11/13/00 09:57AM >>>I've looked in the archive, and found the examples of tabbing into an
arrayfield. That is no problem. My question is, how do you tab out
of an arrayfield? Shift-Tab will "back-tab" out of the arrayfield. How
do you "forward-tab"?
TIA,
Troy Burns
MVCI
troy.burnsvacationclub.com
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Similar Messages
-
Re: (forte-users) RV: (forte-users) DecimalNullable &ArrayField
Jorge,
Here are couple of steps you may want to double-check:
1. Set the desired scale (for e.g., say scale = 10) on the window's
attribute (may be in Init() method).
2. May be you want to mask the input to the DataField (for e.g., say Input
Mask = Float)
Make sure you don't overwrite the attribute (the object itself) with
another object with a different scale.
3. If what you see on the window is what does not get to the database, then
you may want to verify parameter passing.
4. More importantly, make sure the DecimalNullable object in the SQL has
the same scale as that on the window.
Hope this helps.
Jagadish
"Jorge
Bellido" To: <forte-userslists.xpedior.com>
<jorge.bellid cc:
oeam.es> Fax to:
Subject: (forte-users) RV: (forte-users)
03/13/2001 DecimalNullable & ArrayField
10:23
Another example,
If I have saved the data 55446.023, when I go to the window and I write
0. then the data saved is 0.046
Regards,
Jorge.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jorge Bellido
To: forte-userslists.xpedior.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 12:01 PM
Subject: (forte-users) DecimalNullable & ArrayField
Hello!
I am very grateful to you for solutions given to me some days ago. I
decided manage DecimalNullable, but now I have a problem:
I have one ArrayField (called MyList") in a Window, with Mapped Type "
Array of MyClass". "MyClass" has one attribute called Cost" with
type DecimalNullable and in the Init I have "Cost = new ( scale = 10 );".
In the Window the ArrayField have a DataField called "Cost" with
MappedType DecimalNullable, and Input Mask Float.
Well, when I go to this Window, for example is showed "23.12345". If I
select this number with the mouse and I write for example "8", with the
debugger I see that MyList.Cost is "8.0". If I continue writting one
comma, with the debugger I see that MyList.Cost is "8.02345", and I don't
know why Forte write the decimals of the old number, but only when I write
the comma. If I write "8.2" the result is OK.
Anybody knows some solution?
Thank you very much,
Jorge.Hi Jean-Paul,
As described in the Technote 10981 some Forte programs (Nodemanager and
router) handle correct the high-file descriptor-use problem. It is possible
that Forte interpreter do it correct too.
Zenon
-----Original Message-----
From: Jean-Paul Gabrielli [SMTP:Jean-Paul.Gabriellisema.fr]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 12:11 PM
To: Adamek, Zenon
Cc: Forte-userslists.xpedior.com
Subject: RE: (forte-users) [UNIX] "Too many open files" 3.0.M2
question
Actually, the stuff works in interpreted mode.
It's only when having the server partition compiled that this happen.
j-p
-----Message d'origine-----
De: Adamek, Zenon [mailto:ZAdamekpurolator.com]
Date: lundi 25 septembre 2000 17:13
À: 'Jean-Paul.Gabriellisema.fr'
Cc: Forte-userslists.xpedior.com
Objet: RE: (forte-users) [UNIX] "Too many open files" 3.0.M2 question
see Technote 10981
-----Original Message-----
From: Jean-Paul Gabrielli [SMTP:Jean-Paul.Gabriellisema.fr]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 11:02 AM
To: zeForte-users
Subject: (forte-users) [UNIX] "Too many open files" 3.0.M2 question
Hi,
running a server partition that reads a configuration file,
and apparently doen't close it after, I have that exception:
SYSTEM ERROR: System Error: Too many open files, opening '....'with mode
'r'
Class: qqos_FileResourceException
1) Is there such a limit, or does this rely only on the OS one ?
2) How is this error not trapped, as I only got itinteractively, whereas
my server log does a exception trap/segmentation fault,
thanlks
j-p
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>
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Re: (forte-users) Question-Minimizing Windows onstartup
I am not sitting in front of a Win95 machine currently, but I think I
remember a setting on the Shortcut tab in the Properties notebook about the
application, that allows you to Run the app either as 'Normal Window',
'Minimized', or 'Maximized.'
/\/\ark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Perkinson" <perkinson.willtowerautomotive.com>
To: "Forte Usergroup" <kamranaminyahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 10:31 AM
Subject: (forte-users) Question-Minimizing Windows on startup
How do you minimize the ftexec window when starting the client on a
Windows 95 platform?
The application starts but leaves the forte ftexec window open in the
background. Is there a way to hide this window or minimize it on
startup?
Thank you,
Will Perkinson
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the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.comI am not sitting in front of a Win95 machine currently, but I think I
remember a setting on the Shortcut tab in the Properties notebook about the
application, that allows you to Run the app either as 'Normal Window',
'Minimized', or 'Maximized.'
/\/\ark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Perkinson" <perkinson.willtowerautomotive.com>
To: "Forte Usergroup" <kamranaminyahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 10:31 AM
Subject: (forte-users) Question-Minimizing Windows on startup
How do you minimize the ftexec window when starting the client on a
Windows 95 platform?
The application starts but leaves the forte ftexec window open in the
background. Is there a way to hide this window or minimize it on
startup?
Thank you,
Will Perkinson
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Re: (forte-users) Display Problem
Judging by the title bar of the window, it looks like the application is
not running on the Boston user's PC, but is being driven by some sort of
PCAnywhere-style program. Maybe that's the problem?
At 14:44 28/02/00 -0800, Holm, Steve wrote:
<<good.doc>>
We have an application running in production that has been working just
fine. The screen layout is in the attached good.doc document. We brought
up our Boston division on this application and one user there has a problem
with the tabs at the bottom. The bottom section is scrunched together so
that not all the data is visible. I have attached a screen shot of the
application on her pc (bad.doc). Does anyone have any idea what might be
causing this?
<<bad.doc>>Stephen Szalla
Senior Technical Specialist
Sun Microsystems Australia - Forte Tools Group
Voice: +61 3 9699 7754
Fax: +61 3 9699 7781
Mobile: +61 419 392 867
mailto:Stephen.Szallaaus.sun.com
http://www.forte.comMy guess is, your third service object is not referenced.
-----Original Message-----
From: Forte App [mailto:forteapphotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 3:08 PM
To: kamranaminyahoo.com
Subject: (forte-users) Partition problem
Hello Everyone,
I have three (3) service objects in my project and when i went into
partition workshop i can only see two service objects instead of three and
all the three service objects properties settings are same
iam using Forte 3.0L2.
Thanks in Advance
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when self.window.FunctionKeyPress(p_intKey=keyID, p_intMod=modifier) do
if p_intKey = FN_F9 and p_intMod =KM_SHIFT then
-- Do something
end if;
if p_intKey = FN_F8 and p_intMod =KM_SHIFT then
-- Do something
end if;
ka
-----Original Message-----
From: Babu Raj [mailto:ibcsmartboyyahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 2:01 PM
To: kamranaminyahoo.com
Subject: (forte-users) Hotkeys
Hi,
Is there anyone used hot keys, with window
buttons.Hot keys work with menu but not with buttons,
is there something i need to specially set? any help
is appreciated
Thanks,
Babu
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
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the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.comBabu,
Hotkeys for buttons only work for versions 3.0.M and above. Also, there are
some problems I found when testing them. When you press the hot key it posts
the click event for the button which has registered a Hot Key. The problem
is that it posts the click event even if the button is
disabled/invisible/inactive or even on a different tab folder page. Also, if
you have two tab folder pages with the same set of buttons (eg &Insert,
&Edit, &Delete) but for different purposes, Forte only registers the first
unique Button Hot Key (eg I for &Insert) and ignores the others even if they
are on different pages. This can cause confusion because the User thinks
they are trying to insert on one tab folder page but it triggers the insert
on the first tab folder page.
My recommendation is be careful using Hot-Keys by adding extra code in the
event registration for the Click of Hot Key buttons to make sure that the
button was able to be clicked and try not use Hot Keys on Tab Pages.
Hope this helps,
Allister Dickson
Xpedior
www.xpedior.com
Ph: +61-8-9485-0399
Mob: +61-402-052-943
Fax: +61-8-9486-8650
-----Original Message-----
From: Babu Raj [mailto:ibcsmartboyyahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, 8 July 2000 4:01
To: kamranaminyahoo.com
Subject: (forte-users) Hotkeys
Hi,
Is there anyone used hot keys, with window
buttons.Hot keys work with menu but not with buttons,
is there something i need to specially set? any help
is appreciated
Thanks,
Babu
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new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.com -
RE: (forte-users) Expand a droplist?
This quenstion has been asked before in this list.
The answer is: "You can't".
There is no function to automatically open the droplist. This behaviour is
completely handled by the windowing system. If you REALLY want this
behaviour, you have to code it yourself using a DataField, PictureButton and
ScrollList, but I advise against it.
Pascal Rottier
Atos Origin Nederland (BAS/West End User Computing)
Tel. +31 (0)10-2661223
Fax. +31 (0)10-2661199
E-mail: Pascal.Rottiernl.origin-it.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Philip Morris (Afd. MIS)
Tel. +31 (0)164-295149
Fax. +31 (0)164-294444
E-mail: Rottier.Pascalpmintl.ch
-----Original Message-----
From: BOLIVARD Kenny [mailto:BOLIVARDPREVIADE.FR]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:11 AM
To: 'Forté - maillingList'
Subject: (forte-users) Expand a droplist?
Hello,
In forté, I want to expand a droplist, when the end-user selects it by
tab-key pressing or by mouse clicking. In fact, I want to display to
end-user the list when the droplist gains the focus.How can I do ? Is
there a solution ?
Thanx for all.
Sincerly Yours.
For the archives, go to: http://lists.xpedior.com/forte-users and use
the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.comThis quenstion has been asked before in this list.
The answer is: "You can't".
There is no function to automatically open the droplist. This behaviour is
completely handled by the windowing system. If you REALLY want this
behaviour, you have to code it yourself using a DataField, PictureButton and
ScrollList, but I advise against it.
Pascal Rottier
Atos Origin Nederland (BAS/West End User Computing)
Tel. +31 (0)10-2661223
Fax. +31 (0)10-2661199
E-mail: Pascal.Rottiernl.origin-it.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Philip Morris (Afd. MIS)
Tel. +31 (0)164-295149
Fax. +31 (0)164-294444
E-mail: Rottier.Pascalpmintl.ch
-----Original Message-----
From: BOLIVARD Kenny [mailto:BOLIVARDPREVIADE.FR]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:11 AM
To: 'Forté - maillingList'
Subject: (forte-users) Expand a droplist?
Hello,
In forté, I want to expand a droplist, when the end-user selects it by
tab-key pressing or by mouse clicking. In fact, I want to display to
end-user the list when the droplist gains the focus.How can I do ? Is
there a solution ?
Thanx for all.
Sincerly Yours.
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the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.com -
RE: (forte-users) 3J= 3M new to me error
Hi Thomas,
Thanks for your email but I think it will be interesting for Brenda not me.
It is exactly what I have expected from Forte Support: detailed information
about bugs and workarounds. But what I cannot understand is that #53398 was
released without any information about possible reasons for this problem or
suggested workarounds. My first reaction after reading this bugreport was to
open a new case at CallCenter to get more information about it. Please
release more information with your bug reports !
Regards
Zenon Adamek
Information Services
Senior Programmer Analyst
Tel: 905 712-1084 ext. 3628
Fax: 905 712-6709
E-mail: zadamekpurolator.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Degen - Sun Germany Forte Tools - Bonn
[SMTP:thomas.degensun.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:49 AM
To: Adamek, Zenon
Cc: 'Brenda Cumming'; Forte-userslists.xpedior.com
Subject: RE: (forte-users) 3J=>3M new to me error
Hi Zenon,
bug #53398 is not a bug which will likely get fixed, it's an informational
bugreport.
You might see an errorstack like Brenda has reported (and described in
informational
bugreport #53398) probably when you are doing something illegal that is
possible
via Forte Tool but Forte is not trapping it for performance reasons. Hence
you will see
the error coming from your illegal operation only at runtime, probably
only
while
running interpreted in the Forte IDE, but in worst case it might be even a
segmentation
violation.
Technotes 12448 'Sudden client partition crashes at runtime' and 11225
'Don't reparent
mapped Widgets between UserWindows at runtime' explain this matter . See
attached.
But maybe Brenda is much more experiencing a problem as described by Forte
Technote 11398 'Read Only Workspace Errors using ListViews or ActiveX
control'
that might get easily resolved via setting of FORTE_YIELD_THROTTLE=0.
Good Luck and Best Regards !
BTW: I've logged bug #53398, so I've felt responsible to explain its real
background.
Thomas
Thomas Degen
Sun Microsystems - Forte Tools
Forte CTE & Sustaining Group
Technical Support Germany
tel.:+49.228/91499-50
MailTo:thomas.degensun.com
Technote 11398 Read Only Workspace Errors using ListViews or ActiveX
control
SCENARIO:
Getting some unusual interpreter errors that result in an error stating
that
the workspace has been set to read only. Please see Enclosures for the
two
most common error stacks that have been encountered. The abbreviated
versions of the errors are:
- Can't read record (record size = -1)
- Id in index does not match id in record header in data file
- Recursive deserialization attempted.
- Unknown Mark type in deserialization
- Could not read record (64,74615) from repository data file.
Header
is corrupt.
These errors can be happening in either the development environment when
running from one of the development workshops, or with the deployed
application.
The bug outlined in this Technote may be the culprit if the errors above
are
seen when running a client on Windows NT or Motif and the user interface
incorporates ActiveX controls or ListView/TreeView widgets.
CAUSE:
Basically what is happening is that in rare circumstances Forte may invoke
a
nested copy of the interpreter while the first interpreter has yielded.
This
is not a problem in and of itself, but in the case where the original
interpreter was in the middle of a repository fetch when it yielded, and
the second interpreter needs to fetch code as well, we will get one of the
errors listed above, depending on the exact timing. The reason for the
errors is that the repository code at this level is thread-safe but not
re-entrant. It is protected by a mutex that is already owned by the
current task. Which, given the scenario outlined here, where the two
interpreters are running inside of the same task, results in the nested
interpreter being allowed to change data out from under the first.
While for every fetch one or more calls to WindowSystem.Yield will be made
(this is there to prevent the semblance of system lock-up on Win 3.1,
where
Yield is the only way other applications can be allowed to run), there is
a parameter which controls how often to actually yield, which by default
is
set to one out of every 100 calls. This is the reason the problem is
intermittent--you need a yield to occur during a repository fetch
which starts another interpreter which also needs to fetch code from
disk.
The reason this has only surfaced recently is that the nested interpreter
scenario can only happen in 2 cases that we know of:
- ActiveX controls which respond to events/Windows messages
- Outline fields/ListViews with column(s) mapped to virtual
attributes
In all other normal cases, the yield can process the message (typically a
paint message) without starting another interpreter, so regardless of
whether
the first interpreter yielded during a repository operation or not, there
is
no conflict.
SOLUTION:
The workaround is to prevent yields altogether by setting the
FORTE_YIELD_THROTTLE environment variable equal to 0 in the client's
environment. This should have no detrimental effects since the yield code
is in place solely for Windows 3.1x clients.
ERROR STACK 1
SYSTEM ERROR: Because of a prior error, your workspace was set to
read-only to
prevent the application from attempting to write to the repository. The
repository and work you have saved to the repository are safe. If your
workspace
contains unsaved work, you may use the following procedure to save this
work.
First, export the changed components. Then, shut down and restart this
application and reopen this workspace in read-write mode. Finally, import
the
changed components and save your workspace.
Class: qqrp_RepResourceException
Error #: [1101, 695]
Detected at: qqrp_Session::GetObjectById
Last TOOL statement: method EFWindowController.EFEventLoop
Error Time: Tue Nov 18 15:58:47
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "ConPlus_GUI_cl0_Client",
(partitionId = 7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1,
taskId =
[7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1.23]) in application
"ConPlus_GUI_cl0", pid 147 on node ISD060 in environment EdgeTest.
The remainder of the Error Manager stack is:
SYSTEM ERROR: Internal Error attempting to deserialize element (64,67470)
(fetch
bitmask is 0x20). Your workspace is now read-only to prevent the
application
from attempting to write to the repository. The repository and work you
have
saved to the repository are safe. If your workspace contains unsaved work,
you
may use the following procedure to save this work. First, export the
changed
components. Then, shut down and restart this application and reopen this
workspace in read-write mode. Finally, import the changed components and
save
your workspace.
Class: qqrp_RepResourceException
Error #: [1101, 61]
Detected at: qqrp_LogicalSession::MaterializeObject
Last TOOL statement: method EFTabManagerNew.EFNoteBookHandler
Error Time: Tue Nov 18 15:58:47
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "ConPlus_GUI_cl0_Client",
(partitionId = 7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1,
taskId =
[7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1.23]) in application
"ConPlus_GUI_cl0", pid 147 on node ISD060 in environment EdgeTest.
SYSTEM ERROR: Unknown Mark type in deserialization.
Class: qqsp_ImplementationException
Error #: [1101, 34]
Detected at: qqrp_DeSerializeObject::ProcessHdr
Error Time: Tue Nov 18 15:58:47
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "ConPlus_GUI_cl0_Client",
(partitionId = 7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1,
taskId =
[7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1.23]) in application
"ConPlus_GUI_cl0", pid 147 on node ISD060 in environment EdgeTest.
ERROR STACK 2
SYSTEM ERROR: A serious error has occurred in Repository
(c:\PROGRA~1\CSSPTEST\conplu0). Corrective action may be necessary.
Notify
your repository administrator.
Class: qqsp_ImplementationException
Error #: [1101, 198]
Detected at: qqrp_Repository::Fetch
Last TOOL statement: method
SalesDevelopment_NWC.DEVNotifyofTabSetCurrent
Error Time: Wed Dec 03 10:27:22
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "ConPlus_GUI_cl0_Client",
(partitionId = 769D4310-6B88-11D1-84FD-65BF87C8AA77:0x121:0x1,
taskId =
[769D4310-6B88-11D1-84FD-65BF87C8AA77:0x121:0x1.22]) in application
"ConPlus_GUI_cl0", pid 172 on node ISD42 in environment Edge.
SYSTEM ERROR: Could not read record (64,74615) from repository data file.
Header is corrupt.
Class: qqsp_ImplementationException
Error #: [1106, 612]
Detected at: qqbt_BtreeAccess::FetchDataFileRecord
Error Time: Wed Dec 03 10:27:22
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "ConPlus_GUI_cl0_Client",
(partitionId = 769D4310-6B88-11D1-84FD-65BF87C8AA77:0x121:0x1,
taskId =
[769D4310-6B88-11D1-84FD-65BF87C8AA77:0x121:0x1.22]) in application
"ConPlus_GUI_cl0", pid 172 on node ISD42 in environment Edge.
Technote 11225 Don't reparent mapped Widgets between UserWindows at
runtime
It is sometimes tempting to unparent a widget from one UserWindow and
reparent
it into another at runtime. However, this can cause crashes if the widget
(or
its decendants) are "mapped" to data. Here's why...
Suppose you have two UserWindows, UW1 and UW2. UW1 contains a DataField
(DF1)
which is mapped to a TextData. UW2 contains a RadioList (RL2) which is
mapped to
a scalar Integer. At compile time, every mapped attribute is internally
assigned
a "Map ID" (a small integer) which is used to tie the Widget to its
corresponding attribute. These Map IDs are used by the Widget to look up a
pointer to their data in a "Map" which is maintained by the UserWindow.
Each
UserWindow is assumed be to independent of the others, so there is nothing
wrong
with Widgets in different UserWindows being assigned the same Map IDs.
In
this
case, let's assume that DF1 and RL2 both got assigned the same Map ID of
3. No
problem so far, since each lives in a separate UserWindow with a separate
map.
Now suppose at runtime the application "detaches" or unparents DF1 from
its
UserWindow and reparents it somewhere into UW2. When it comes time for DF1
to
paint itself the Display System it must ask the Runtime System for the
value of
DF1's mapped attribute. To do that it says "give me the value of the
TextData
for DF1. You'll find it in the Map for this UserWindow (UW1), and its Map
ID is
3". When the runtime system goes to do this it expects to find a TextData
in
this "slot" of the map, but instead it picks up the integer which is
mapped to
RL2. At best this leads to bad data being returned; more likely you get a
segfault and a crash.
If DF1 was not a mapped attribute (say, a Rectangle) there would be no
problem
because there is no data mapped to a Rectangle. If instead of moving DF1
you
created a brand new DataField on the fly there would be no problem,
because the
dynamic DataField would not have any Map ID and so couldn't conflict with
any
IDs in UW2.
So how do you solve this problem? This is exactly what Nested Windows are
all
about. While you can't move DF1 into the middle of UW2, you can nest
UW1.
This
works because UW1 brings its map with it, and when you access DF1 it knows
to
look up its value in UW1's map.
UserWindows are intended to be the "unit of compilabilty" that can be
nested
inside other UserWindows. It is dangerous to "transplant" anything from
inside
one UserWindow into another at runtime.
(Note that you can't avoid this problem by cloning DF1 because the MapID
gets
copied along with it, and the clone will fail in the same way.)
Further details explained in related technote 12448 'Sudden client
partition
crashes at runtime.'
Technote 12448 Sudden client partition crashes at runtime
Scenario : You have two UserWindows, A and B. When Window A starts up, it
instantiates an instance of B and reparents some component of B into A's
window
hierarchy.
This is not allowed and almost always leads to an error at best or at
worse a
segmentation fault.
Here's why :
When you compile a UserWindow in Forte, each "mapped attribute" (whether a
form
element or menu element) is assigned an internal ID which represents an
offset into
that UserWindow's table of mapped attributes. This offset is only valid
in the
context of the UserWindow in which it was compiled. If you detach a
FieldWidget or
MenuWidget from one compiled Window ("tmpMenu" for example) and then
parent
into another compiled window ("tmpWindow") the internal ID comes with it.
When Forte tries to make use of that copied widget it uses the ID as an
offset
into tmpWindow's table of mapped attributes. But that copied offset is
meaningless in the context of tmpWindow's table, so you get some kind off
error.
In this case it found that the data type of the variable in the slot
wasn't
what
was expected. But you might even index off the end of the table and get a
segmentation fault.
There is nothing to prevent you from dynamically creating menu items and
adding
them to a window at runtime; that will work fine. Although of course you
can't
access them via mapped attributes, since those can only be created at
compile time.
But you are not allowed to reparent a widget from one compiled UserWindow
into
the hierarchy of another.
More information may be found in technote 11225 'Don't reparent mapped
Widgets
between UserWindows at runtime'.
Possible errorstacks seen at runtime instead of a complete crash or
segmentation
violation while you are illegally reparenting a widget or menuitem between
windows
at runtime:
Map::SetSubjectData: Invalid conversion from map type 0 to subject type 22
SYSTEM ERROR: Bad parameter at location 3 in method
qqrt_MapClassAccess::ProcessSubjectData.
Class: qqsp_Exception
Error #: [1001, 381]
Detected at: qqrt_MapClassAccess::ProcessSubjectData at 3
Error Time: Wed Aug 09 13:03:57
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "testproject_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = D4914A10-36C1-11D4-91B3-419AA33BAA77:0x208:0xd,
taskId =
[D4914A10-36C1-11D4-91B3-419AA33BAA77:0x208:0xd.68]) in application
"FTLaunch_cl0", pid 672 on node ONEWAY in environment Audi3M2Env.
At 13:14 26.09.00 -0400, Adamek, Zenon wrote:
Hi,
It is the unfixed defect 53398. Please contact Forte support.
Zenon
-----Original Message-----
From: Brenda Cumming [SMTP:brenda_cummingtranscanada.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:15 PM
To: Forte User group
Subject: (forte-users) 3J=>3M new to me error
Hi,
We are in the process of going from 3J1 to 3.0.M.2, and I am getting
this error that I am unfamiliar with on a GUI that works fine in 3J.
It
does not happen all the time, and I have been unable to establish the
pattern that kicks it off. Has anyone seen this before?
PS- this error is not occurring in the deployed (non-compiled) app,but
when I am running locally from my workspace.
SYSTEM ERROR: Bad parameter at location 6 in method
qqrt_MapClassAccess::ProcessSubjectData.
Class: qqsp_Exception
Error #: [1001, 381]
Detected at: qqrt_MapClassAccess::ProcessSubjectData at 6
Error Time: Wed Sep 20 14:32:54
Exception occurred (locally) on partition
"ABSDevtStartUp_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = 36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2,
taskId =
[36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2.25]) in
application
"Forte_cl0", pid 93 on node T5621 in environment AbisDMEnv.
SYSTEM ERROR: Can't find scope 20070 for a class.
Class: qqsp_Exception
Error #: [201, 11]
Detected at: qqlo_ClassTableLoadScope at 1
Error Time: Wed Sep 20 14:32:54
Exception occurred (locally) on partition"ABSDevtStartUp_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = 36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2, taskId =
[36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2.25]) in
application
"Forte_cl0", pid 93 on node T5621 in environment AbisDMEnv.
SYSTEM ERROR: Because of a prior error, your workspace was set to
read-only to prevent the application from attempting to write to the repository.
The repository and work you have saved to the repository are safe. If
your
workspace contains unsaved work, you may use the following procedure
to save this work. First, export the changed components. Then, shut down and
restart this application and reopen this workspace in read-write mode.
Finally, import the changed components and save your workspace.
Class: qqrp_RepResourceException
Error #: [1101, 695]
Detected at: qqrp_Session::IsDistributed
Last TOOL statement: method PPMeasWin.
Error Time: Wed Sep 20 14:32:54
Exception occurred (locally) on partition
"ABSDevtStartUp_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = 36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2, taskId =
[36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2.25]) in
application
"Forte_cl0", pid 93 on node T5621 in environment AbisDMEnv.
SYSTEM ERROR: Internal Error attempting to deserialize element
(64,120684) (fetch bitmask is 0x20). Your workspace is now read-onlyto
prevent
the application from attempting to write to the repository. The
repository
and work you have saved to the repository are safe. If your workspace
contains unsaved work, you may use the following procedure to savethis
work.
First, export the changed components. Then, shut down and restart this
application and reopen this workspace in read-write mode. Finally, import the
changed components and save your workspace.
Class: qqrp_RepResourceException
Error #: [1101, 61]
Detected at: qqrp_LogicalSession::MaterializeObject
Error Time: Wed Sep 20 14:32:54
Exception occurred (locally) on partition
"ABSDevtStartUp_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = 36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2, taskId =
[36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2.25]) in
application
"Forte_cl0", pid 93 on node T5621 in environment AbisDMEnv.
SYSTEM ERROR: Recursive Deserialization attempted, Internal Error!
Class: qqsp_UsageException with ReasonCode: SP_ER_INVALIDSTATE
Error #: [301, 231]
Detected at: qqsp_DeSerializeDriver::Run at 1
Error Time: Wed Sep 20 14:32:54
Exception occurred (locally) on partition"ABSDevtStartUp_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = 36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2, taskId =
[36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2.25]) in
application
"Forte_cl0", pid 93 on node T5621 in environment AbisDMEnv.
For the archives, go to: http://lists.xpedior.com/forte-users and use
the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in anew
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to:forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.com
For the archives, go to: http://lists.xpedior.com/forte-users and use
the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.comHi Thomas,
Thanks for your email but I think it will be interesting for Brenda not me.
It is exactly what I have expected from Forte Support: detailed information
about bugs and workarounds. But what I cannot understand is that #53398 was
released without any information about possible reasons for this problem or
suggested workarounds. My first reaction after reading this bugreport was to
open a new case at CallCenter to get more information about it. Please
release more information with your bug reports !
Regards
Zenon Adamek
Information Services
Senior Programmer Analyst
Tel: 905 712-1084 ext. 3628
Fax: 905 712-6709
E-mail: zadamekpurolator.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Degen - Sun Germany Forte Tools - Bonn
[SMTP:thomas.degensun.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:49 AM
To: Adamek, Zenon
Cc: 'Brenda Cumming'; Forte-userslists.xpedior.com
Subject: RE: (forte-users) 3J=>3M new to me error
Hi Zenon,
bug #53398 is not a bug which will likely get fixed, it's an informational
bugreport.
You might see an errorstack like Brenda has reported (and described in
informational
bugreport #53398) probably when you are doing something illegal that is
possible
via Forte Tool but Forte is not trapping it for performance reasons. Hence
you will see
the error coming from your illegal operation only at runtime, probably
only
while
running interpreted in the Forte IDE, but in worst case it might be even a
segmentation
violation.
Technotes 12448 'Sudden client partition crashes at runtime' and 11225
'Don't reparent
mapped Widgets between UserWindows at runtime' explain this matter . See
attached.
But maybe Brenda is much more experiencing a problem as described by Forte
Technote 11398 'Read Only Workspace Errors using ListViews or ActiveX
control'
that might get easily resolved via setting of FORTE_YIELD_THROTTLE=0.
Good Luck and Best Regards !
BTW: I've logged bug #53398, so I've felt responsible to explain its real
background.
Thomas
Thomas Degen
Sun Microsystems - Forte Tools
Forte CTE & Sustaining Group
Technical Support Germany
tel.:+49.228/91499-50
MailTo:thomas.degensun.com
Technote 11398 Read Only Workspace Errors using ListViews or ActiveX
control
SCENARIO:
Getting some unusual interpreter errors that result in an error stating
that
the workspace has been set to read only. Please see Enclosures for the
two
most common error stacks that have been encountered. The abbreviated
versions of the errors are:
- Can't read record (record size = -1)
- Id in index does not match id in record header in data file
- Recursive deserialization attempted.
- Unknown Mark type in deserialization
- Could not read record (64,74615) from repository data file.
Header
is corrupt.
These errors can be happening in either the development environment when
running from one of the development workshops, or with the deployed
application.
The bug outlined in this Technote may be the culprit if the errors above
are
seen when running a client on Windows NT or Motif and the user interface
incorporates ActiveX controls or ListView/TreeView widgets.
CAUSE:
Basically what is happening is that in rare circumstances Forte may invoke
a
nested copy of the interpreter while the first interpreter has yielded.
This
is not a problem in and of itself, but in the case where the original
interpreter was in the middle of a repository fetch when it yielded, and
the second interpreter needs to fetch code as well, we will get one of the
errors listed above, depending on the exact timing. The reason for the
errors is that the repository code at this level is thread-safe but not
re-entrant. It is protected by a mutex that is already owned by the
current task. Which, given the scenario outlined here, where the two
interpreters are running inside of the same task, results in the nested
interpreter being allowed to change data out from under the first.
While for every fetch one or more calls to WindowSystem.Yield will be made
(this is there to prevent the semblance of system lock-up on Win 3.1,
where
Yield is the only way other applications can be allowed to run), there is
a parameter which controls how often to actually yield, which by default
is
set to one out of every 100 calls. This is the reason the problem is
intermittent--you need a yield to occur during a repository fetch
which starts another interpreter which also needs to fetch code from
disk.
The reason this has only surfaced recently is that the nested interpreter
scenario can only happen in 2 cases that we know of:
- ActiveX controls which respond to events/Windows messages
- Outline fields/ListViews with column(s) mapped to virtual
attributes
In all other normal cases, the yield can process the message (typically a
paint message) without starting another interpreter, so regardless of
whether
the first interpreter yielded during a repository operation or not, there
is
no conflict.
SOLUTION:
The workaround is to prevent yields altogether by setting the
FORTE_YIELD_THROTTLE environment variable equal to 0 in the client's
environment. This should have no detrimental effects since the yield code
is in place solely for Windows 3.1x clients.
ERROR STACK 1
SYSTEM ERROR: Because of a prior error, your workspace was set to
read-only to
prevent the application from attempting to write to the repository. The
repository and work you have saved to the repository are safe. If your
workspace
contains unsaved work, you may use the following procedure to save this
work.
First, export the changed components. Then, shut down and restart this
application and reopen this workspace in read-write mode. Finally, import
the
changed components and save your workspace.
Class: qqrp_RepResourceException
Error #: [1101, 695]
Detected at: qqrp_Session::GetObjectById
Last TOOL statement: method EFWindowController.EFEventLoop
Error Time: Tue Nov 18 15:58:47
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "ConPlus_GUI_cl0_Client",
(partitionId = 7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1,
taskId =
[7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1.23]) in application
"ConPlus_GUI_cl0", pid 147 on node ISD060 in environment EdgeTest.
The remainder of the Error Manager stack is:
SYSTEM ERROR: Internal Error attempting to deserialize element (64,67470)
(fetch
bitmask is 0x20). Your workspace is now read-only to prevent the
application
from attempting to write to the repository. The repository and work you
have
saved to the repository are safe. If your workspace contains unsaved work,
you
may use the following procedure to save this work. First, export the
changed
components. Then, shut down and restart this application and reopen this
workspace in read-write mode. Finally, import the changed components and
save
your workspace.
Class: qqrp_RepResourceException
Error #: [1101, 61]
Detected at: qqrp_LogicalSession::MaterializeObject
Last TOOL statement: method EFTabManagerNew.EFNoteBookHandler
Error Time: Tue Nov 18 15:58:47
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "ConPlus_GUI_cl0_Client",
(partitionId = 7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1,
taskId =
[7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1.23]) in application
"ConPlus_GUI_cl0", pid 147 on node ISD060 in environment EdgeTest.
SYSTEM ERROR: Unknown Mark type in deserialization.
Class: qqsp_ImplementationException
Error #: [1101, 34]
Detected at: qqrp_DeSerializeObject::ProcessHdr
Error Time: Tue Nov 18 15:58:47
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "ConPlus_GUI_cl0_Client",
(partitionId = 7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1,
taskId =
[7EFAE060-4AFA-11D1-A1C1-1FDC8A99AA77:0x446:0x1.23]) in application
"ConPlus_GUI_cl0", pid 147 on node ISD060 in environment EdgeTest.
ERROR STACK 2
SYSTEM ERROR: A serious error has occurred in Repository
(c:\PROGRA~1\CSSPTEST\conplu0). Corrective action may be necessary.
Notify
your repository administrator.
Class: qqsp_ImplementationException
Error #: [1101, 198]
Detected at: qqrp_Repository::Fetch
Last TOOL statement: method
SalesDevelopment_NWC.DEVNotifyofTabSetCurrent
Error Time: Wed Dec 03 10:27:22
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "ConPlus_GUI_cl0_Client",
(partitionId = 769D4310-6B88-11D1-84FD-65BF87C8AA77:0x121:0x1,
taskId =
[769D4310-6B88-11D1-84FD-65BF87C8AA77:0x121:0x1.22]) in application
"ConPlus_GUI_cl0", pid 172 on node ISD42 in environment Edge.
SYSTEM ERROR: Could not read record (64,74615) from repository data file.
Header is corrupt.
Class: qqsp_ImplementationException
Error #: [1106, 612]
Detected at: qqbt_BtreeAccess::FetchDataFileRecord
Error Time: Wed Dec 03 10:27:22
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "ConPlus_GUI_cl0_Client",
(partitionId = 769D4310-6B88-11D1-84FD-65BF87C8AA77:0x121:0x1,
taskId =
[769D4310-6B88-11D1-84FD-65BF87C8AA77:0x121:0x1.22]) in application
"ConPlus_GUI_cl0", pid 172 on node ISD42 in environment Edge.
Technote 11225 Don't reparent mapped Widgets between UserWindows at
runtime
It is sometimes tempting to unparent a widget from one UserWindow and
reparent
it into another at runtime. However, this can cause crashes if the widget
(or
its decendants) are "mapped" to data. Here's why...
Suppose you have two UserWindows, UW1 and UW2. UW1 contains a DataField
(DF1)
which is mapped to a TextData. UW2 contains a RadioList (RL2) which is
mapped to
a scalar Integer. At compile time, every mapped attribute is internally
assigned
a "Map ID" (a small integer) which is used to tie the Widget to its
corresponding attribute. These Map IDs are used by the Widget to look up a
pointer to their data in a "Map" which is maintained by the UserWindow.
Each
UserWindow is assumed be to independent of the others, so there is nothing
wrong
with Widgets in different UserWindows being assigned the same Map IDs.
In
this
case, let's assume that DF1 and RL2 both got assigned the same Map ID of
3. No
problem so far, since each lives in a separate UserWindow with a separate
map.
Now suppose at runtime the application "detaches" or unparents DF1 from
its
UserWindow and reparents it somewhere into UW2. When it comes time for DF1
to
paint itself the Display System it must ask the Runtime System for the
value of
DF1's mapped attribute. To do that it says "give me the value of the
TextData
for DF1. You'll find it in the Map for this UserWindow (UW1), and its Map
ID is
3". When the runtime system goes to do this it expects to find a TextData
in
this "slot" of the map, but instead it picks up the integer which is
mapped to
RL2. At best this leads to bad data being returned; more likely you get a
segfault and a crash.
If DF1 was not a mapped attribute (say, a Rectangle) there would be no
problem
because there is no data mapped to a Rectangle. If instead of moving DF1
you
created a brand new DataField on the fly there would be no problem,
because the
dynamic DataField would not have any Map ID and so couldn't conflict with
any
IDs in UW2.
So how do you solve this problem? This is exactly what Nested Windows are
all
about. While you can't move DF1 into the middle of UW2, you can nest
UW1.
This
works because UW1 brings its map with it, and when you access DF1 it knows
to
look up its value in UW1's map.
UserWindows are intended to be the "unit of compilabilty" that can be
nested
inside other UserWindows. It is dangerous to "transplant" anything from
inside
one UserWindow into another at runtime.
(Note that you can't avoid this problem by cloning DF1 because the MapID
gets
copied along with it, and the clone will fail in the same way.)
Further details explained in related technote 12448 'Sudden client
partition
crashes at runtime.'
Technote 12448 Sudden client partition crashes at runtime
Scenario : You have two UserWindows, A and B. When Window A starts up, it
instantiates an instance of B and reparents some component of B into A's
window
hierarchy.
This is not allowed and almost always leads to an error at best or at
worse a
segmentation fault.
Here's why :
When you compile a UserWindow in Forte, each "mapped attribute" (whether a
form
element or menu element) is assigned an internal ID which represents an
offset into
that UserWindow's table of mapped attributes. This offset is only valid
in the
context of the UserWindow in which it was compiled. If you detach a
FieldWidget or
MenuWidget from one compiled Window ("tmpMenu" for example) and then
parent
into another compiled window ("tmpWindow") the internal ID comes with it.
When Forte tries to make use of that copied widget it uses the ID as an
offset
into tmpWindow's table of mapped attributes. But that copied offset is
meaningless in the context of tmpWindow's table, so you get some kind off
error.
In this case it found that the data type of the variable in the slot
wasn't
what
was expected. But you might even index off the end of the table and get a
segmentation fault.
There is nothing to prevent you from dynamically creating menu items and
adding
them to a window at runtime; that will work fine. Although of course you
can't
access them via mapped attributes, since those can only be created at
compile time.
But you are not allowed to reparent a widget from one compiled UserWindow
into
the hierarchy of another.
More information may be found in technote 11225 'Don't reparent mapped
Widgets
between UserWindows at runtime'.
Possible errorstacks seen at runtime instead of a complete crash or
segmentation
violation while you are illegally reparenting a widget or menuitem between
windows
at runtime:
Map::SetSubjectData: Invalid conversion from map type 0 to subject type 22
SYSTEM ERROR: Bad parameter at location 3 in method
qqrt_MapClassAccess::ProcessSubjectData.
Class: qqsp_Exception
Error #: [1001, 381]
Detected at: qqrt_MapClassAccess::ProcessSubjectData at 3
Error Time: Wed Aug 09 13:03:57
Exception occurred (locally) on partition "testproject_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = D4914A10-36C1-11D4-91B3-419AA33BAA77:0x208:0xd,
taskId =
[D4914A10-36C1-11D4-91B3-419AA33BAA77:0x208:0xd.68]) in application
"FTLaunch_cl0", pid 672 on node ONEWAY in environment Audi3M2Env.
At 13:14 26.09.00 -0400, Adamek, Zenon wrote:
Hi,
It is the unfixed defect 53398. Please contact Forte support.
Zenon
-----Original Message-----
From: Brenda Cumming [SMTP:brenda_cummingtranscanada.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:15 PM
To: Forte User group
Subject: (forte-users) 3J=>3M new to me error
Hi,
We are in the process of going from 3J1 to 3.0.M.2, and I am getting
this error that I am unfamiliar with on a GUI that works fine in 3J.
It
does not happen all the time, and I have been unable to establish the
pattern that kicks it off. Has anyone seen this before?
PS- this error is not occurring in the deployed (non-compiled) app,but
when I am running locally from my workspace.
SYSTEM ERROR: Bad parameter at location 6 in method
qqrt_MapClassAccess::ProcessSubjectData.
Class: qqsp_Exception
Error #: [1001, 381]
Detected at: qqrt_MapClassAccess::ProcessSubjectData at 6
Error Time: Wed Sep 20 14:32:54
Exception occurred (locally) on partition
"ABSDevtStartUp_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = 36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2,
taskId =
[36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2.25]) in
application
"Forte_cl0", pid 93 on node T5621 in environment AbisDMEnv.
SYSTEM ERROR: Can't find scope 20070 for a class.
Class: qqsp_Exception
Error #: [201, 11]
Detected at: qqlo_ClassTableLoadScope at 1
Error Time: Wed Sep 20 14:32:54
Exception occurred (locally) on partition"ABSDevtStartUp_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = 36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2, taskId =
[36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2.25]) in
application
"Forte_cl0", pid 93 on node T5621 in environment AbisDMEnv.
SYSTEM ERROR: Because of a prior error, your workspace was set to
read-only to prevent the application from attempting to write to the repository.
The repository and work you have saved to the repository are safe. If
your
workspace contains unsaved work, you may use the following procedure
to save this work. First, export the changed components. Then, shut down and
restart this application and reopen this workspace in read-write mode.
Finally, import the changed components and save your workspace.
Class: qqrp_RepResourceException
Error #: [1101, 695]
Detected at: qqrp_Session::IsDistributed
Last TOOL statement: method PPMeasWin.
Error Time: Wed Sep 20 14:32:54
Exception occurred (locally) on partition
"ABSDevtStartUp_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = 36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2, taskId =
[36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2.25]) in
application
"Forte_cl0", pid 93 on node T5621 in environment AbisDMEnv.
SYSTEM ERROR: Internal Error attempting to deserialize element
(64,120684) (fetch bitmask is 0x20). Your workspace is now read-onlyto
prevent
the application from attempting to write to the repository. The
repository
and work you have saved to the repository are safe. If your workspace
contains unsaved work, you may use the following procedure to savethis
work.
First, export the changed components. Then, shut down and restart this
application and reopen this workspace in read-write mode. Finally, import the
changed components and save your workspace.
Class: qqrp_RepResourceException
Error #: [1101, 61]
Detected at: qqrp_LogicalSession::MaterializeObject
Error Time: Wed Sep 20 14:32:54
Exception occurred (locally) on partition
"ABSDevtStartUp_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = 36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2, taskId =
[36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2.25]) in
application
"Forte_cl0", pid 93 on node T5621 in environment AbisDMEnv.
SYSTEM ERROR: Recursive Deserialization attempted, Internal Error!
Class: qqsp_UsageException with ReasonCode: SP_ER_INVALIDSTATE
Error #: [301, 231]
Detected at: qqsp_DeSerializeDriver::Run at 1
Error Time: Wed Sep 20 14:32:54
Exception occurred (locally) on partition"ABSDevtStartUp_CL0_Client",
(partitionId = 36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2, taskId =
[36172000-5DA8-11D4-B1F0-14015EDAAA77:0x2da:0x2.25]) in
application
"Forte_cl0", pid 93 on node T5621 in environment AbisDMEnv.
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Re: (forte-users) Fusion for the VAR
Hi,
It is a good idea. In fact, I think that how Forte is
going to integrate her own suite of app. too. ( I
kind of recall that there is a speech on this topic in
Forum ).
However, as Forte will most likely goes toward Java, I
would suggest that you take into account the
abstraction on Conductor ( which is frankly an event
broker ) and Fusion ( which handles the XML mapping )
too. In doing so, you can save guard your investment
on the design without binding tightly with FORTE and I
bet there will be tons of event broker or XML parser
in the future market.
On the other hand, this integration by Fusion would be
perfect for a perfect world. But, in this imperfect
world, it would be hard to do cross-checking between
apps in Fusion.
In the old days, we repulicate data or do file
transfer to integrate apps. In doing so, we also
build-in all the cross-checking procedure / reports.
In the case of Fusion, is there such a safety net to
save guard data integrity. Can I identify a lost
event and trace back to find out whether it is a app.
problem or Conductor problem?
I think the customer would surely like to know.
Regards,
Peter Sham.
--- "Thomas Mercer-Hursh, Ph.D."
<[email protected]> wrote:
Fusion has been positioned as an EAI tool, something
at which it appears to
be very, very good, but in recent months I have been
thinking about its
possible role as an architectural tool for those of
us who build large,
multi-application suites of applications. Having
been tossing some of
these ideas around the halls at Harrison Street, I
thought I would try some
of them on this audience as well to see what
reaction I got.
This concept is based on the context that one has
multiple interacting
applications which are loosely coupled, or at least
which should be. E.g.,
an order processing application may need credit
status information from an
accounts receivable application and may generate
invoices which then need
to be tracked for payment by that application, but
the connections between
these applications are specific, limited, and
readily enumerable. Mind
you, people don't always build their applications so
cleanly modularized,
but I think we all agree these days that they should
be.
The idea is to provide each application with a
specific API, which it may
currently have only indirectly. I.e., today one
might simply have calls
directly from one application to another, but one
would gather all these
links together and define an API, probably in XML
which covered all of the
necessary communciations between applications.
These would then be used to
build a Fusion Proxy and one would build the
necessary Conductor processes
to handle the communications which previously might
have been made directly
between applications. There is probably some
performance loss in this
process, but many of these interfaces are not
performance intensive and my
bet is that if the whole Fusion concept has adequate
performance for the
purposes for which it is being primarily marketed,
then it has the
performance for this sort of usage.
One would get several advantages from this
structure:
1) Interapplication communications would be handled
by a Conductor process
and thus be much more readily configurable than any
hard-coded link.
2) One would gain the ability to unplug one's own
application and plug in a
customer's application when the customer insisted on
using something else.
3) The discipline of working in this structure would
insure clean boundries
between applications, which is not only sound
design, but promotes the
flexibility of the overall suite.
4) Those with untransitioned legacy applications
would have a framework
that would allow a mixture of new and old
applications to co-exist, thus
providing them with a transition strategy until the
full product line was
converted.
Note that I am assuming that one would want to build
the individual
applications so that they also used Conductor for
managing their business
process logic, but that seems to me to be an
independent decision from this
one.
So, comments?
Any downsides?
Any added benefits I haven't covered here?
Are there many out there that would benefit from
this approach or just a few?
Is anyone doing anything like this?
Note that the one downside I have found so far is
that Fusion licensing,
independent of the Conductor aspect, is based on the
number of proxies and
so someone like CI who has 15 or more applications
in a typical site is
going to have 15 or more proxies. My bet is that
this can be handled once
it is clear that use of Fusion by a VAR for
integrating own applications is
not the same use as by an end-user integrating
arbitrary multiple applications.
=========================================================================
Thomas Mercer-Hursh, Ph.D email:
[email protected]
Computing Integrity, Inc. sales:
510-233-9329
550 Casey Drive - Cypress Point support:
510-233-9327
Point Richmond, CA 94801-3751 fax:
510-233-6950
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the login: forte and the password: archive. To
unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to:
[email protected]
=====Yes, they do & one page is 1KB page. We use the same instrument to check
memory usage & to send alerts in our production system.
Thanks.
Suraj
-----Original Message-----
From: Epari, Madhusudhan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 2:37 PM
To: 'Saraf, Suraj'; 'Forte User Forum'
Subject: RE: (forte-users) Instrument for memory used in the partition
Thanks all for the response. I observed "Allocated Pages" instrument doesn't
change as and when memory usage by the partition changes. I was trying to
find a way to measure the actual memory (specifically in bytes or KBs).
Thanks,
Madhu
-----Original Message-----
From: Saraf, Suraj [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 12:46 PM
To: 'Epari, Madhusudhan'; 'Forte User Forum'
Subject: RE: (forte-users) Instrument for memory used in the partition
Hello,
I think you can use 'OperatingSystem' service agent & check 'AllocatedPages'
instrument to see how many memory pages are used. You can compare that with
your maximum allocation & send alerts depending on that. Thanks.
Suraj
-----Original Message-----
From: Epari, Madhusudhan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 11:15 AM
To: 'Forte User Forum'
Subject: (forte-users) Instrument for memory used in the partition
Hello Everyone,
Is there an instrument to track the memory used in the partition at a given
point of time. I have a requirement where an alert has to be generated in
the environment when partition uses all its available memory.
Thanks in advance,
Madhu
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RE: (forte-users) Reporting tools/components for ForteApplications?
Hi Robert,
A good place to start when it comes to reporting is Forte Consulting. They
have developed a tool called ReportKit, which is ActiveX integration with
Seagate Software's Crystal Reports tool. Crystal is not really a three-tier
tool (although, your Forte Consultant can probably set it up to mimic a
three-tier tool), but it is a quick, easy way to get quality reports from
your existing Forte applications. If you're interested, give your Forte
Sales Rep (or, better still, your Forte Regional Consulting Director) a
call. They can discuss pricing and scheduling. I've done several
integration projects with Crystal, and I highly recommend ReportKit for
small- to medium-sized reporting requirements. As for costs, I don't recall
how much CrystalReports runs, but I think there are developer licenses and
runtime licenses.
FYI, the actual integration of ReportKit is pretty quick. The more
time-consuming piece of any report tool integration is the design and
implementation of the reports to be used.
I hope this helps.
-Katie
Katie Tierney
Quality Management Analyst
Akili Systems Group
601 Jefferson, Suite 3975
Houston, Texas 77002
Office: (713) 655-1400
Cell: (409) 255-1643
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low
price is forgotten" --Larry Anderson
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Brooke-N502365 [mailto:Robert.Brookeca.michelin.com]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 8:17 AM
To: kamranaminyahoo.com
Subject: (forte-users) Reporting tools/components for Forte
Applications?
Hi all,
We are looking for what is currently in the marketplace to enhance the
reporting
capabilities of Forte. Ideally, we are looking for component libraries that
we
could import into our repository. Do these exist?
Currently, I have found six reporting tools that are out there. The
tools
are Actuate, Crystal Reports, Report Workshop from Indus Consultancy
Services, Brio Technologies (SQR) VisualBRIO, Visual CyberQuery from
Cyberscience Corp., and Beacon from Brahma Software Solutions FORTify
Components. Are there any others for Forte?
If anyone is currently using one of these Reporting Tools for Forte or
any
others, could you give me any indications as to the costs, training, type
of
application using the Reporting tool, would you recommend using the
product
again, does it use wrappering or API, or is it a component based tool, and
any
other relevant information on the product?
Thanks,
Robert Brooke
Application Developer
Michelin North America (Canada) Inc. CA0/CA1
PO Box 399
New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
B2H-3E6
Phone: (902) 753-1977
Fax: (902) 396-2180
Note: We are currently developing in Forte 3.0.L.2. However, we would
like
to select a reporting tool/component within the next month. We are in the
initial phases of our next project, an application to be developed
in-house.
Probably will have two databases, one for real-time data and another one
for
archived data. Probably will need reporting functionality and capabilities
for
both real-time data and archived data.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.comAt 09:33 AM 4/20/01, Rottier, Pascal wrote:
Forte 4GL is:
1) A language, TOOL (Compare to Java)
2) An IDE (Compare to e.g. JBuilder or FJCE)
3) A collaborative development environment, with central repository (Compare
to ????)
4) A distributed application server / object request broker (Compare to J2EE
servers and/or CORBA)Let's not forget WebEnterprise, Express, and especially Fusion.
I think, SUN is not al all interested in TOOL.If TOOL were just a language and had no market yet, you are probably
right. But, not only is TOOL the key to the Forte environment, but it has
an existing and profitable market. Sun still sells FORTRAN, after all, and
continues to put money into ADE development for all its language
products. The real kicker, though, is that I think iPlanet is very clear
that Fusion, now iIS, is a very key product for them. There may be those
who wish it were written in Java and who might lobby for doing a Java
version, but it was clear at the conference that the iPlanet management
recognize that Java just isn't up to the task at this point. It isn't as
if all the iPlanet tools are actually written in Java, after all.
They will only support them for as long as they need.Or, more likely, for as long as they make money.
Now, in response to Microsofts .NET stratagy. We have yet to see how
succesfull this will be, but I expect Microsoft to push this down the
throats of developers and companies quite succesfully.Like they did DCOM?
=========================================================================
Thomas Mercer-Hursh, Ph.D email: [email protected]
Computing Integrity, Inc. sales: 510-233-9329
550 Casey Drive - Cypress Point support: 510-233-9327
Point Richmond, CA 94801-3751 fax: 510-233-6950 -
Re: (forte-users) Delays in data transfer..server-to-client
I would try using DOM (distributed object manager) traces. trc:do:20 will
give you information on each messages sent from and received by the
partition. Levels are 1, 2, 5, 7, and 8, and trc:do:*:8 is very
verbose. trc:do:20:1 may tell you what you want to know. trc:do:1:1 will
give you a basic 1-line-per DOM event trace that may also be all you need.
Communications manager traces will tell you about network and socket-level
activity, but not about the sizes of the messages themselves. In addition,
the operating system makes decisions about physical packet size and
send/receive timing, so CM activities only generally map to actual network
activity.
-tdc
iPlanet Integration Server Engineering
At 09:24 AM 5/1/01 -0700, you wrote:
All,
We are experiencing delays in object transfer between server and client. The
delays are longer with large objects (a single object with an array of objects
that reflect the rows returned in a database) than small (ie: 10 rows vs 400).
Does anyone have any (actual) experience using the various Forte' flags in
order
to show the actual size of the object/packets being passed between the server
and client?
We are using input/output between client and server, input on all the SO's
within a partition. Response on the server side is good, roughly 6 seconds or
so. The round trip fare however from the time the client makes the SO call to
the time that it completes is in the 25-30 second range, leaving roughly 20-25
seconds unaccounted for. I have brought in the network guys who are
requesting
the data size and packet information. I did not see what I am looking for
using
the trc:cm:*:4 and trc:cm:*:8 flags. I will be trying the trc:cm:*:10
flag, but
Forte' indicates that this flag is very verbose, the systems group hates
it when
I use up all of THEIR disk space!
Any ideas would be appreciated as always.Jeff,
If the object you are passing does not require changes made to it in the
server partition to be returned, pass the object as copy input (pass by
value not reference). If it is necessary to pass the object as input, try
to pass only the attributes that are required to the remote partition
instead of the whole object.
Input/Output is normaly used with scalar variables. When a scalar is passed
to a remote partition, if the value is changed in that partition, the value
is not returned to the calling partition unless Input/Output is used.
Input/Output should not be used for object type parameters, if you need to
pass a reference, use Input only. If you can pass by value, use Copy Input.
You will notice a huge difference in performance changing from Input to Copy
input when passing large objects.
Hope this helps,
Travis Foote
Fortedeveloper.com Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Bennett" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 9:24 AM
Subject: (forte-users) Delays in data transfer.. server-to-client
>
All,
We are experiencing delays in object transfer between server and client.The
delays are longer with large objects (a single object with an array ofobjects
that reflect the rows returned in a database) than small (ie: 10 rows vs400).
>
Does anyone have any (actual) experience using the various Forte' flags inorder
to show the actual size of the object/packets being passed between theserver
and client?
We are using input/output between client and server, input on all the SO's
within a partition. Response on the server side is good, roughly 6seconds or
so. The round trip fare however from the time the client makes the SOcall to
the time that it completes is in the 25-30 second range, leaving roughly20-25
seconds unaccounted for. I have brought in the network guys who arerequesting
the data size and packet information. I did not see what I am looking forusing
the trc:cm:*:4 and trc:cm:*:8 flags. I will be trying the trc:cm:*:10flag, but
Forte' indicates that this flag is very verbose, the systems group hatesit when
I use up all of THEIR disk space!
Any ideas would be appreciated as always.
-jeff
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the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: [email protected] -
Re: (forte-users) Accessing Technote 10398
Ketie,
let's see, I have been using FORTE since November of
1994. since the beginning those flags have been common
knowledge within the FORTE community and widely
disseminated.
the FORTE flags have been invaluable to me and HAVE
NEVER caused any downtime. sure, there are a few
wildcards in there that can cause trouble, but to
throw out the baby with the bathwater is ridiculous.
what would life be without trc:lo:25? to trace
exceptions.
or trc:os:1:1 and trc:os:5:5 to tune memory
consumption?
Should i have to call a consultant or FORTE tech
support to do the deep dive on exceptions or tune my
applications? I think not.
Overreaction? No.
Mark.
--- Katie Tierney <katiethetierneys.com> wrote:
I think y'all are overreacting. There are log flags
that are detailed in
Technote 10398 that can cause serious implications
if used improperly. I
think Forte/Sun just wants to make sure that people
don't make mistakes that
cost them valuable time.
As a Forte Consultant for many years, I have seen a
good number of people
misuse information that was not completely
understood. In some cases, this
caused excessive downtime for production
applications. The only time I ever
saw Technote 10398 being provided to a customer was
when they were utilizing
Forte Consulting, or when a Technical Support
Engineer was heavily involved.
I was extremely surprised to learn that it was
available to non-employees via
the website - that sounds as if someone may have
inadvertantly marked it as
customer-viewable (incorrectly, obviously) in Sun's
internal systems.
Again, I think you're overreacting. I am sure that
this isn't a case of Sun
thinking anyone is "stupid." It's a matter of
providing the support that
people need to properly utilize the tools available.
-Katie
mark joyce wrote:
read: Sometimes, the technotes are markedunviewable
to customers because they might need further
explanation. Let me know if you need to log acase.
in other words, you are TOO STUPID to use FORTElogger
flags, although they have been widely distributedand
used for years by FORTE users.
i can't believe it either. i don't know what iwould
have done for the last 5 years without using theFORTE
flags. such a wealth of good output!
what an excuse! "they might need furtherexplanation"
.. if i had to log every problem with FORTE,instead
of resolving them myself through the information
obtained by using flags, i would have lost my joba
long time ago.
mark.
--- Jeff Bennett <jeff_bennettsehamerica.com>wrote:
I thought it might be prudent to share with youthe
response I received from Sun
regarding the inability to access technote 10398
(Forté logger flags). I was
able to access it 3+ weeks ago, and fortunatelykept
a hard-copy. But, how are
we supposed to do our job effectively and
expediently if we do not have
(complete) access to this resource?
I thought the technotes were completely open tothe
Forté development
community.... wrong.
-jeff
---------------------- Forwarded by JeffBennett/SEH
on 09/11/2000 09:02 AM
Forte Support <supportforte.com> on 09/08/2000
10:05:17 AM
To: Jeff Bennett/SEHsehamerica.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Accessing Technote 10398
Fax to:
Hello Jeff,
Were you at one point able to access thistechnote?
You know why -- it's
because this technote is marked for employeeviewing
only and not available
for customer viewing. If you need further
assistance or need to look at
this technote, what you would need to do is loga
call with us and then a
tech support specialist will give you a callback.
Sometimes, the
technotes are marked unviewable to customersbecause
they might need
further explanation. Let me know if you need tolog
a case.
Thanks!
At 09:57 AM 9/8/00 -0700, you wrote:
I am no longer able to access technote 10398
(forte
logger flags)... why?
-jeff~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Sun® microsystems
Jeannie Lee
Phone: (510) 451-5400
Fax (510) 869-2010
Email: jeannie.leesun.com
Forte Tools Response Coordinator
For the archives, go to:
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the login: forte and the password: archive. To
unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to:
forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.com
http://mail.yahoo.com/
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the login: forte and the password: archive. Tounsubscribe, send in a new
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http://mail.yahoo.com/Ketie,
let's see, I have been using FORTE since November of
1994. since the beginning those flags have been common
knowledge within the FORTE community and widely
disseminated.
the FORTE flags have been invaluable to me and HAVE
NEVER caused any downtime. sure, there are a few
wildcards in there that can cause trouble, but to
throw out the baby with the bathwater is ridiculous.
what would life be without trc:lo:25? to trace
exceptions.
or trc:os:1:1 and trc:os:5:5 to tune memory
consumption?
Should i have to call a consultant or FORTE tech
support to do the deep dive on exceptions or tune my
applications? I think not.
Overreaction? No.
Mark.
--- Katie Tierney <katiethetierneys.com> wrote:
I think y'all are overreacting. There are log flags
that are detailed in
Technote 10398 that can cause serious implications
if used improperly. I
think Forte/Sun just wants to make sure that people
don't make mistakes that
cost them valuable time.
As a Forte Consultant for many years, I have seen a
good number of people
misuse information that was not completely
understood. In some cases, this
caused excessive downtime for production
applications. The only time I ever
saw Technote 10398 being provided to a customer was
when they were utilizing
Forte Consulting, or when a Technical Support
Engineer was heavily involved.
I was extremely surprised to learn that it was
available to non-employees via
the website - that sounds as if someone may have
inadvertantly marked it as
customer-viewable (incorrectly, obviously) in Sun's
internal systems.
Again, I think you're overreacting. I am sure that
this isn't a case of Sun
thinking anyone is "stupid." It's a matter of
providing the support that
people need to properly utilize the tools available.
-Katie
mark joyce wrote:
read: Sometimes, the technotes are markedunviewable
to customers because they might need further
explanation. Let me know if you need to log acase.
in other words, you are TOO STUPID to use FORTElogger
flags, although they have been widely distributedand
used for years by FORTE users.
i can't believe it either. i don't know what iwould
have done for the last 5 years without using theFORTE
flags. such a wealth of good output!
what an excuse! "they might need furtherexplanation"
.. if i had to log every problem with FORTE,instead
of resolving them myself through the information
obtained by using flags, i would have lost my joba
long time ago.
mark.
--- Jeff Bennett <jeff_bennettsehamerica.com>wrote:
I thought it might be prudent to share with youthe
response I received from Sun
regarding the inability to access technote 10398
(Forté logger flags). I was
able to access it 3+ weeks ago, and fortunatelykept
a hard-copy. But, how are
we supposed to do our job effectively and
expediently if we do not have
(complete) access to this resource?
I thought the technotes were completely open tothe
Forté development
community.... wrong.
-jeff
---------------------- Forwarded by JeffBennett/SEH
on 09/11/2000 09:02 AM
Forte Support <supportforte.com> on 09/08/2000
10:05:17 AM
To: Jeff Bennett/SEHsehamerica.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Accessing Technote 10398
Fax to:
Hello Jeff,
Were you at one point able to access thistechnote?
You know why -- it's
because this technote is marked for employeeviewing
only and not available
for customer viewing. If you need further
assistance or need to look at
this technote, what you would need to do is loga
call with us and then a
tech support specialist will give you a callback.
Sometimes, the
technotes are marked unviewable to customersbecause
they might need
further explanation. Let me know if you need tolog
a case.
Thanks!
At 09:57 AM 9/8/00 -0700, you wrote:
I am no longer able to access technote 10398
(forte
logger flags)... why?
-jeff~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Sun® microsystems
Jeannie Lee
Phone: (510) 451-5400
Fax (510) 869-2010
Email: jeannie.leesun.com
Forte Tools Response Coordinator
For the archives, go to:
http://lists.xpedior.com/forte-users and use
the login: forte and the password: archive. To
unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to:
forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.com
http://mail.yahoo.com/
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the login: forte and the password: archive. Tounsubscribe, send in a new
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http://mail.yahoo.com/ -
Troy Burns wrote:
It would definitely be of interest to me, since this is an item on my
"to-do" list. If you can release the code, let me know.Here 'tiz.
The files you're getting are:
SFVosC.pex - "C" wrapper.
Vos.C - The "C" callout.
Vos.H - A header file for Vos.C, used by ...
VosCLI.C - A command-line-driven mainline to test Vos.C
VosObj.CEX - An object that provides a "nice" interface to the "C" wrapper.
We use this in two ways: instantiated as a local object to get the username
under VMS or NT, or as a service object partitioned to an NT server to do
username/password authentication on behalf of clients on other operating
systems.
The following changes have been made throughout the files in an attempt to
keep various people in DuPont happy:
"our_application_root" replaces the actual name of the root directory of
the application.
"our_vms_server" replaces the actual name of the system in question.
"our_nt_server" replaces the actual name of the system in question.
"our_application_name" replaces the actual name of the application.
A copyright notice, the usual disclaimer, and a "fair use" statement (which
is just a reference to the Perl Artistic License) have been inserted.
Except for the "ExternalObjectFiles" declaration in SFVosC.pex, all the
changes appear to have been in comments. But the files come with the usual
freeware warranty (i.e. "use at your own risk".)
Have fun with these!
Tom Wyant
(See attached file: SFvosC.pex)(See attached file: Vos.c)(See attached
file: Vos.h)(See attached file: Voscli.c)(See attached file: VosObj.cex)I would try going to the "lowest common denominator" between WindowsNT and
Windows95 - DOS. Both windowing OS's sort of have their roots in DOS, or at
least both are capable of opening a DOS session.
Therefore, from a DOS prompt type "set" to view the environment variables for
both OS types. Look for a common variable between the two that stores the
userID. If you can find one of these your application will be that much more
portable between these two Windows mutations.
I used "set" on my NT and found my userID assigned to a few variables. I haven't
done this on a Windows95 machine in quite some time, but if the machine is on
the network it should have at least one environment variable with the userID.
I'm just guessing that DOS has a variable to store the userID that will be
common to both machines.
Good luck....
Kelsey PetrychynSaskTel Technical Analyst
ITM - Technology Solutions - Distributed Computing
Tel (306) 777 - 4906, Fax (306) 359 - 0857
Internet:kelsey.petrychynSasktel.sk.ca
Quality is not job 1. It is the only job!
"Olivier Andrieux" <oandrieuxaxialog.fr> on 07/19/2000 09:12:41 AM
To: forte-userslists.xpedior.com
cc: (bcc: Kelsey Petrychyn/SaskTel/CA)
Subject: (forte-users) user name
Hi
I use this command to catch the username:
task.part.operatingsystem.getenv('username')
with NT, there is no problem
but with windows95 or 98 the command doesn't find the username.
Thanks in advance.
Olivier Andrieux
Axialog
Lille
For the archives, go to: http://lists.xpedior.com/forte-users and use
the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
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Re: (forte-users) Minimal Fusion
Thomas,
A response which may contain no answers...and may lead to more questions...
As a novice fusion user, one of the largest obstacles to using Fusion is the lack of XML API's in an application, be it a customer's in-house or vendor's software product. Corresponding to this is simply the lack of any API's in the application. As Forte (abet Sun, now iPlanet) says in their training manual 'A nontrivial task is to build new adapters for your programs if you wish to enable them to interact using XML documents over HTTP'. This is probably an understatement.
The question that come to mind is:
Does the warehouse have published API's their product?
If not, then, IMHO, you have steep hill to climb, not the least being communication, cooperation, and coordination from the warehouse vendor (another one of those 'nontrivial tasks') in trying to create the required API's
if so, then it is a matter of building an adapter, in a language that is compatible with the warehouse's API (hopefully C or some derivation of) , that contains (1) a DOM (Document Object Module) to API Translator, (2) an XML Parser (converts XML to DOM and visa-versa) , and (3) a HTTP server (again, another one of those 'nontrivial tasks').
Forte (abet Sun, now iPlanet) suggests, and I would concur (with reservations), that if you haven't done this before you should probably hire their services from the Forte Integration Services group. Their costs (admittible high) should be offset be the time it would take to develop one on your own. A side benefit is working with them, you learn the process for making other adapters in the future. If Fusion is a marketing success, then the benefits should out weigh the costs.
The Forte Integration Services group markets, or will market, a Fusion Adapter Designer, some sort of a SDK, which assists in the creation of Adapters. I do not know the availability of that product at this time.
As to your question "Is it reasonable to consider doing this project under Fusion as a
getting-feet-wet experience?" If you (or your customer) can afford the costs, and the warehouse has published API's, I would say that you gotta get-your-feet-wet somehow. If the warehouse doesn't have published API's and are not willing to put forth the effort and resources to do so, I would say your chances of success are considerably less.
In any case, IMHO, it will be a 'non trivial' undertaking.
-later
-labeaux
"Thomas Mercer-Hursh, Ph.D." <thomascintegrity.com> 10/31/00 04:49PM >>>This may be one of those questions which has no answer, but ...
Our long term plan is to develop XML APIs to each of the modules in our
suite of non-Forte applications and to integrate these under Fusion, thus
gaining Conductor management of the inter-module work flows and a cleaner
loose coupling of the applications along with other benefits such as the
ease of integration with other packages, a clean way to migrate to Forte
modules, and an ease of interconnecting "mini-applications" to address
specific customer needs.
I have an existing customer who has made a decision to migrate to a third
party warehouse from an in-house warehouse. I.e., were this transition to
the new structure complete, this would correspond to unhooking some of our
modules and replacing these with an adapter to the corresponding modules in
the third party warehouse.
In fact, as it looks now, I will need to build the logical equivalent of
these APIs anyway -- might as well do it in XML, right? And these APIs
will communicate with a daemon responsible for the message traffic to and
from. I tried to get this traffic to be XML and to use MQSeries or JMS as
the transport, but the folks at the warehouse end don't seem to be able to
handle such things, so I am stuck doing something fairly stupid for the
actual communication.
So, the question for those out there who have already paid their Fusion
dues, is it reasonable to consider doing this project under Fusion as a
getting-feet-wet experience. There are only half a dozen APIs to do and I
have to do those anyway and am inclined to make them XML regardless. There
will be one communication daemon to which all these connect and the
business processes originally implemented in Conductor will basically be
just point to point connects, except for routing traffic from the daemon to
the right API based on message type. That's really all I need it to do,
i.e., far too simple to actually need Fusion, but a possible opportunity
to get started and then to expand to other uses.
Crazy?
=========================================================================
Thomas Mercer-Hursh, Ph.D email: thomascintegrity.com
Computing Integrity, Inc. sales: 510-233-9329
550 Casey Drive - Cypress Point support: 510-233-9327
Point Richmond, CA 94801-3751 fax: 510-233-6950
For the archives, go to: http://lists.xpedior.com/forte-users and use
the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.comAt 07:55 AM 11/1/00, Labeaux Schiek wrote:
As a novice fusion user, one of the largest obstacles to using Fusion is
the lack of XML API's in an application, be it a customer's in-house or
vendor's software product.In this case, the good news is that one of the applications in question is
our own, so whipping up an XML API to suit each required transaction on
that side is no more, probably less, work than importing or exporting a
flat file or whatever. Moreover, my current expectation of how this
interaction will work is something like this:
</pre>
---Fusion------
| |
WACS<-->WACS_Daemon<----VPN socket
connection---->IS_Daemon I/S
</pre>
I.e., I/S, our application, and the IS_Daemon which handles the connection
traffic across the internet link are both mine. For I/S, I will create XML
APIs to suit. For the IS_daemon, I might use the transform facilities to
convert this XML to the pipe-delimited format they are expected at the
other end and make the daemon a simple manager of the connection or, the
daemon could do the conversion, but the former seems like the more
appropriate approach. The API between the two daemons is something we are
defining now (unfortunately I lost the argument to make that XML).
Corresponding to this is simply the lack of any API's in the
application. As Forte (abet Sun, now iPlanet) says in their training
manual 'A nontrivial task is to build new adapters for your programs if
you wish to enable them to interact using XML documents over HTTP'.My neophyte understanding is that, since I am defining the API to I/S in
the diagram above and I can make this XML, then the adapter issue
disappears there. I might have to create an adapter for the daemon, but if
necessary, I could make that the same XML on a pass through and do the
translation in the daemon.
If not, then, IMHO, you have steep hill to climb, not the least being
communication, cooperation, and coordination from the warehouse vendor
(another one of those 'nontrivial tasks') in trying to create the required
API'sWe are well through this process anyway. ... which is not to say that it
has been or will be easy, but it must be done whether I use Fusion or
not. Given that the vote has gone in favor of simple messages of
pipe-delimited records, i.e., basically flat file, the technical issues
there are minimal.
if so, then it is a matter of building an adapter, in a language that is
compatible with the warehouse's API (hopefully C or some derivation of) ,
that contains (1) a DOM (Document Object Module) to API Translator, (2)
an XML Parser (converts XML to DOM and visa-versa) , and (3) a HTTP server
(again, another one of those 'nontrivial tasks').I'm not sure I quite understand what you are saying here. The HTTP part
won't be there since we will apparently be connecting via a VPN sockets
connection. But, how are you distinguishing DOM and XML since DOM is a
particular form of XML? The XML API I build for I/S will be DOM compliant.
Forte (abet Sun, now iPlanet) suggests, and I would concur (with
reservations), that if you haven't done this before you should probably
hire their services from the Forte Integration Services group. Their
costs (admittible high) should be offset be the time it would take to
develop one on your own. A side benefit is working with them, you learn
the process for making other adapters in the future. If Fusion is a
marketing success, then the benefits should out weigh the costs.I am familiar with the "party" line. If I were building a complete
interface to another major product (I/S is roughly equivalent to JDEC in
coverage) in the context of an EAI project, I would happily invite them in
and hope to pick up pointers. Here, though, there are only 8 or 9 total
transaction types and either all of the interfaces are XML, i.e., no
adapter required as I understand it, or only the daemon will need an
adapter and that will be a choice I can make depending on how things
go. One does wish it were possible to sample a small piece of that
knowledge store without having to buy the whole thing, though.
The Forte Integration Services group markets, or will market, a Fusion
Adapter Designer, some sort of a SDK, which assists in the creation of
Adapters. I do not know the availability of that product at this time.Last I checked, one couldn't get this without the consulting ... hence the
last sentence above.
Thanks for your input.
=========================================================================
Thomas Mercer-Hursh, Ph.D email: thomascintegrity.com
Computing Integrity, Inc. sales: 510-233-9329
550 Casey Drive - Cypress Point support: 510-233-9327
Point Richmond, CA 94801-3751 fax: 510-233-6950 -
RE: (forte-users) FW: (forte-users)
Hi there
Thanks very much for the solution - just wanted to let you know . We
implemented the design that technote 11378 suggested .
It worked .
Thanks very much
Cheers
Jen
-----Original Message-----
From: Adamek, Zenon [mailto:ZAdamekpurolator.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 March, 2001 9:21 PM
To: 'forte-userslists.xpedior.com'
Subject: (forte-users) FW: (forte-users)
Hi David,
The problem is that the SO uses an attribute of its class ACBAccount as
the ObjectReference pointer. SO is not a stateless object. The possible
scenario before crash can be that client A and B calls SO at the same
time. A's thread creates ACBAccount gets the ObjectReference. At this
point B's thread is activated, does the same as A creates new
ObjectReference. Probably the next switch between A and B will be in the
Connect() (B should wait for OLE server). If A is reactivated it doesn't
get the original own reference but the B's reference. It can cause the
crash and means that a thread can use reference created in some other
thread.
Regards,
Zenon
-----Original Message-----
From: David McPaul [SMTP:dmcpaullumley.com.au]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 11:52 PM
To: 'forte-userslists.xpedior.com'
Subject: RE: (forte-users)
Jenni,
As Zenon has pointed out, technote 11378 talks about problems that
can occur if the calls made to an OLE object are not from within the same
thread the OLE object was created in. It goes on to show a design to
avoid
this.
However, the code you have given DOES communicate to the OLE object
in the same thread as it was created. So the problem as I see it is more
likely to be that the OLE object is not being garbage collected. Although
you do explicitly NIL out the ACBAccount object there is a technote 12453
that deals with the need to set the ObjectReference of CDispatch objects
to
NIL to allow the OLE object to be completely reclaimed by the garbage
collector. Failure to do so when using code that creates a new OLE object
every time you ask for an account validation will eventually run the
partition out of memory.
As pointed out in a previous post you can also increase
FORTE_STACK_SIZE but this will delay the problem not correct it.
Rather than create the connection each time you may want to think
about redesigning the method as shown in tech note 11378.
Cheers
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Adamek, Zenon [mailto:ZAdamekpurolator.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:05 AM
To: 'Els, Jenni'
Cc: 'forte-userslists.xpedior.com'
Subject: RE: (forte-users)
Hi Jenni,
The most important issue by designing an OLE connection between a Forte
server partition and an OLE component is taking into account that an OLE
object can be referenced from the NT thread in Forte partition that it was
created in. It is the reason that you have no problems with your mini-app
in
single-threaded version.
This problem is discussed in the Technote 11378. You can find a workaround
for your problem there, too.
Regards,
Zenon
-----Original Message-----
From: Els, Jenni [SMTP:JElsnbs.co.za]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 2:28 AM
To: 'forte-userslists.xpedior.com'
Subject: (forte-users)
Hi there
We have this situation
We are calling a Service Object (in the server partition) from ourclient
partition.This service object calls a method which calls a DLLregistered
on our server (VB code) . This VB code access a database on anotherserver
.(DSN set up on our server ).The database is sql server .
We are having the problem where for about 3 hours in the morning , the
system works perfectly. We then get a segmentation violation on this
partition . When we run interpreted we can see that this is an OLEinvoked
exception. The partition does not always show as offline in econsole
and
because it does not , we cannot 'online' another . We cannot take the
entire app down as everything hangs . Eventually our technical depthas
to
down the server
We set up a mini-app looping through and calling the DLL to simulate
the
problem . It worked fine. When we put another asynchronous task in the
method to call the service object , it erred quite soon. We thencreate
an
attribute of type mutex and locked using that. The mini-app worked.
However our app in development eventually hanged (without the
partition
coming though) .
The service Object is an environment visible service object in asingle
(non-replicated partition) . It has a dialog duration = session .
In the project is
ACB : ACBObject
ACBObject : CDispatch (shared = disallowed , distributed =
disallowed, transactional = disallowed, monitored = allowed)
ACBValidator : Object (shared = allowed , distributed =allowed,
transactional = disallowed, monitored = disallowed)
ACBVaidatorSO : ACBValidator
In this method we have this code to call the DLL
self.ACBAccount = new;
self.ACBAccount.CreateUsingCLSID(classID='{2EFD3084-7B05-11D3-857F-00105A4
8CEA0}');
pErrorMessage = new;
acbaccount.BankCode = pBankCode.value;
acbaccount.BranchCode = pBranchCode.value;
at : VariantI2 = new;
at.Value = pAccountType.Value;
acbaccount.AccountType = at.Value;
acbaccount.AccountNo = pAccountNo.value;
begin
acbaccount.Connect();
exception
when e : GenericException do
ex : GenericException = new;
ex.SetWithParams(severity = SP_ER_ERROR,
message = 'There was an error connecting to the database');
raise ex;
end;
begin
err : i2 = acbaccount.ValidateAccount();
if err != 0 then
pErrorMessage.SetValue(acbaccount.ErrDescriptionStr(iErrorCode= err));
acbaccount.Disconnect();
return false;
else
pErrorMessage.SetValue('The account is
valid!!');
acbaccount.Disconnect();
self.ACBAccount = NIL ;
return true;
end if;
exception
when e : GenericException do
acbaccount.Disconnect();
ex : GenericException = new;
ex.SetWithParams(severity = SP_ER_ERROR,
message = 'There was an error Validating the account');
Task.ErrorMgr.AddError(ex);
task.errormgr.ShowErrors();
raise e;
end;
exception
when e : GenericException do
acbaccount.Disconnect();
Task.ErrorMgr.ShowErrors();
raise e;
If anybody has any suggestions , they would be most welcome
Thanks very much
Cheers
Jenni Els************************************************************************Th
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WARNING:
Any unauthorised use or interception of this email is illegal. If this email
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contents to anyone. Save for bona fide company matters, the BoE Group does
not accept any responsibility for the opinions expressed in this email.
For further details please see: http://www.nbs.co.za/emaildisclaim.htmHi there
Thanks very much for the solution - just wanted to let you know . We
implemented the design that technote 11378 suggested .
It worked .
Thanks very much
Cheers
Jen
-----Original Message-----
From: Adamek, Zenon [mailto:ZAdamekpurolator.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 March, 2001 9:21 PM
To: 'forte-userslists.xpedior.com'
Subject: (forte-users) FW: (forte-users)
Hi David,
The problem is that the SO uses an attribute of its class ACBAccount as
the ObjectReference pointer. SO is not a stateless object. The possible
scenario before crash can be that client A and B calls SO at the same
time. A's thread creates ACBAccount gets the ObjectReference. At this
point B's thread is activated, does the same as A creates new
ObjectReference. Probably the next switch between A and B will be in the
Connect() (B should wait for OLE server). If A is reactivated it doesn't
get the original own reference but the B's reference. It can cause the
crash and means that a thread can use reference created in some other
thread.
Regards,
Zenon
-----Original Message-----
From: David McPaul [SMTP:dmcpaullumley.com.au]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 11:52 PM
To: 'forte-userslists.xpedior.com'
Subject: RE: (forte-users)
Jenni,
As Zenon has pointed out, technote 11378 talks about problems that
can occur if the calls made to an OLE object are not from within the same
thread the OLE object was created in. It goes on to show a design to
avoid
this.
However, the code you have given DOES communicate to the OLE object
in the same thread as it was created. So the problem as I see it is more
likely to be that the OLE object is not being garbage collected. Although
you do explicitly NIL out the ACBAccount object there is a technote 12453
that deals with the need to set the ObjectReference of CDispatch objects
to
NIL to allow the OLE object to be completely reclaimed by the garbage
collector. Failure to do so when using code that creates a new OLE object
every time you ask for an account validation will eventually run the
partition out of memory.
As pointed out in a previous post you can also increase
FORTE_STACK_SIZE but this will delay the problem not correct it.
Rather than create the connection each time you may want to think
about redesigning the method as shown in tech note 11378.
Cheers
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Adamek, Zenon [mailto:ZAdamekpurolator.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:05 AM
To: 'Els, Jenni'
Cc: 'forte-userslists.xpedior.com'
Subject: RE: (forte-users)
Hi Jenni,
The most important issue by designing an OLE connection between a Forte
server partition and an OLE component is taking into account that an OLE
object can be referenced from the NT thread in Forte partition that it was
created in. It is the reason that you have no problems with your mini-app
in
single-threaded version.
This problem is discussed in the Technote 11378. You can find a workaround
for your problem there, too.
Regards,
Zenon
-----Original Message-----
From: Els, Jenni [SMTP:JElsnbs.co.za]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 2:28 AM
To: 'forte-userslists.xpedior.com'
Subject: (forte-users)
Hi there
We have this situation
We are calling a Service Object (in the server partition) from ourclient
partition.This service object calls a method which calls a DLLregistered
on our server (VB code) . This VB code access a database on anotherserver
.(DSN set up on our server ).The database is sql server .
We are having the problem where for about 3 hours in the morning , the
system works perfectly. We then get a segmentation violation on this
partition . When we run interpreted we can see that this is an OLEinvoked
exception. The partition does not always show as offline in econsole
and
because it does not , we cannot 'online' another . We cannot take the
entire app down as everything hangs . Eventually our technical depthas
to
down the server
We set up a mini-app looping through and calling the DLL to simulate
the
problem . It worked fine. When we put another asynchronous task in the
method to call the service object , it erred quite soon. We thencreate
an
attribute of type mutex and locked using that. The mini-app worked.
However our app in development eventually hanged (without the
partition
coming though) .
The service Object is an environment visible service object in asingle
(non-replicated partition) . It has a dialog duration = session .
In the project is
ACB : ACBObject
ACBObject : CDispatch (shared = disallowed , distributed =
disallowed, transactional = disallowed, monitored = allowed)
ACBValidator : Object (shared = allowed , distributed =allowed,
transactional = disallowed, monitored = disallowed)
ACBVaidatorSO : ACBValidator
In this method we have this code to call the DLL
self.ACBAccount = new;
self.ACBAccount.CreateUsingCLSID(classID='{2EFD3084-7B05-11D3-857F-00105A4
8CEA0}');
pErrorMessage = new;
acbaccount.BankCode = pBankCode.value;
acbaccount.BranchCode = pBranchCode.value;
at : VariantI2 = new;
at.Value = pAccountType.Value;
acbaccount.AccountType = at.Value;
acbaccount.AccountNo = pAccountNo.value;
begin
acbaccount.Connect();
exception
when e : GenericException do
ex : GenericException = new;
ex.SetWithParams(severity = SP_ER_ERROR,
message = 'There was an error connecting to the database');
raise ex;
end;
begin
err : i2 = acbaccount.ValidateAccount();
if err != 0 then
pErrorMessage.SetValue(acbaccount.ErrDescriptionStr(iErrorCode= err));
acbaccount.Disconnect();
return false;
else
pErrorMessage.SetValue('The account is
valid!!');
acbaccount.Disconnect();
self.ACBAccount = NIL ;
return true;
end if;
exception
when e : GenericException do
acbaccount.Disconnect();
ex : GenericException = new;
ex.SetWithParams(severity = SP_ER_ERROR,
message = 'There was an error Validating the account');
Task.ErrorMgr.AddError(ex);
task.errormgr.ShowErrors();
raise e;
end;
exception
when e : GenericException do
acbaccount.Disconnect();
Task.ErrorMgr.ShowErrors();
raise e;
If anybody has any suggestions , they would be most welcome
Thanks very much
Cheers
Jenni Els************************************************************************Th
is e-mail is intended for the use of the individual or entity named above
and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you
are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us
immediately at helpdesklumley.com.au and destroy the original message.
While this mail and any attachments have been scanned for common computer
viruses and found to be virus free, we recommend you also perform your own
virus checking processes before opening any attachments.
For the archives, go to: http://lists.xpedior.com/forte-users and use
the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: forte-users-requestlists.xpedior.com--
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WARNING:
Any unauthorised use or interception of this email is illegal. If this email
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contents to anyone. Save for bona fide company matters, the BoE Group does
not accept any responsibility for the opinions expressed in this email.
For further details please see: http://www.nbs.co.za/emaildisclaim.htm -
RE: (forte-users) appdist copy from VMS to NT question...
Well, there are some graphic FTP clients for windows that allow
you to get files from FTP-servers using simple drag and drop.
Most of them even support the option of selecting a directory
and dragging it, with all its subdirectories, to your local drive
with a single mouse action.
The only problem might be with binary vs. text files. The appdist
directory has both filetypes. Getting text files as if they were
binary files may cause problems. Getting binary files as if they
were text certainly will cause problems. So, either get the
whole tree binary and hope for the best. Or get each file indi-
vidually and set the correct bin or asc setting. Or use a tool
that is smart enough to see if a file is binary or text and hope
it doesn't make any mistakes.
Pascal Rottier
STP - MSS Support & Coordination Group
Philip Morris Europe
e-mail: [email protected]
Phone: +49 (0)89-72472530
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Origin IT-services
Desktop Business Solutions Rotterdam
e-mail: [email protected]
Phone: +31 (0)10-2428100
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don't meddle in the affairs of dragons
'cause you're crunchy and taste good with ketchup
-----Original Message-----
From: Haben, Dirk [SMTP:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 6:32 AM
To: 'Soapbox Forte Users'
Subject: (forte-users) appdist copy from VMS to NT question ...
G'day Folxs
Does anyone here have a simple way to copy a whole appdist tree for myapp1
say from VMS to NT? I have created a new environment on a NT box and want
to
copy down all our application distributions.
eg:
On OpenVMS machine vmsbox1 the directory tree and files
vmsbox1::forte_root:[appdist.aenv_myapp_cl3...]*.*;
should go to NT machine ntbox1
[ntbox1] d:\temp\myapp\cl3\...
Even just to d:\temp\aenv_myapp_cl3\... will do.
ftp doesn't seem to do the trick here. Of cause I could write some routine
to put/get file by file - but before I do all that I thought I ask around
if
it's already been done.
Thanks,
Dirk
PS: Needless to say we still develop and makedist on VMS - for now (see
Bulletin 388)!
PPS: No I haven't forgotten about [appdist.aenv.myapp1]*.ace
For the archives, go to: http://lists.sageit.com/forte-users and use
the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: [email protected]Well, there are some graphic FTP clients for windows that allow
you to get files from FTP-servers using simple drag and drop.
Most of them even support the option of selecting a directory
and dragging it, with all its subdirectories, to your local drive
with a single mouse action.
The only problem might be with binary vs. text files. The appdist
directory has both filetypes. Getting text files as if they were
binary files may cause problems. Getting binary files as if they
were text certainly will cause problems. So, either get the
whole tree binary and hope for the best. Or get each file indi-
vidually and set the correct bin or asc setting. Or use a tool
that is smart enough to see if a file is binary or text and hope
it doesn't make any mistakes.
Pascal Rottier
STP - MSS Support & Coordination Group
Philip Morris Europe
e-mail: [email protected]
Phone: +49 (0)89-72472530
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Origin IT-services
Desktop Business Solutions Rotterdam
e-mail: [email protected]
Phone: +31 (0)10-2428100
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don't meddle in the affairs of dragons
'cause you're crunchy and taste good with ketchup
-----Original Message-----
From: Haben, Dirk [SMTP:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 6:32 AM
To: 'Soapbox Forte Users'
Subject: (forte-users) appdist copy from VMS to NT question ...
G'day Folxs
Does anyone here have a simple way to copy a whole appdist tree for myapp1
say from VMS to NT? I have created a new environment on a NT box and want
to
copy down all our application distributions.
eg:
On OpenVMS machine vmsbox1 the directory tree and files
vmsbox1::forte_root:[appdist.aenv_myapp_cl3...]*.*;
should go to NT machine ntbox1
[ntbox1] d:\temp\myapp\cl3\...
Even just to d:\temp\aenv_myapp_cl3\... will do.
ftp doesn't seem to do the trick here. Of cause I could write some routine
to put/get file by file - but before I do all that I thought I ask around
if
it's already been done.
Thanks,
Dirk
PS: Needless to say we still develop and makedist on VMS - for now (see
Bulletin 388)!
PPS: No I haven't forgotten about [appdist.aenv.myapp1]*.ace
For the archives, go to: http://lists.sageit.com/forte-users and use
the login: forte and the password: archive. To unsubscribe, send in a new
email the word: 'Unsubscribe' to: [email protected]
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