Render in 8-bit YUV or Render all YUV material in high-precision YUV

Friends,
I'm a wedding videographer and I work with the mini dv cams PD150. In a particular work I will have a lot (I mean a LOT) of color correction to do, this way, should I work my sequence with the setting Render in 8-bit YUV or Render all YUV material in high-precision YUV ?
Thanks again!!!

I read your commentary:
"Selecting this option does not add quality to clips captured at 8-bit resolution when output back to video; it simply improves the quality of rendered effects that support 10-bit precision."
So, 3 Way Color Corrector is a effect that support 10-bit precision? If I use "Render all YUV material in high-precision YUV" will the video look nicer?
Thanks again

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FCP6 any problem using "Render in 8-bit YUV" instead of "Render 10-bt material in high-precision YUV" video processing

I have a long and complex 1080p FCP6 project using ProRes442. It is made up of mostly high resolution stills and some 1280i video clips. Rendering has laways been anightmare. It takes extremely long and makes frequent mistakes whch have to be re-rendered. Just today, I discovered the option of selecting "Render in 8-bit YUV" instead of "Render 10-bt material in high-precision YUV" video processing. The rendering time is cut down to a fraction and even on a large HD monitor I can tell no difference in quality. I am getting ready to re-render the entire project in 8-bit and just wanted to check if changing to 8-bit would pose some problems and/or limitations that I'm not aware of. This is not a broadcast or hollywood film thing. But it does represent my artwork and I burn it to bluray so i do want it to look good. Lke I said, I can tell no difference between the 8-bit and 10-bit color depth with the naked eye. Thank you all for all the help you have always given me with my many questions in the past.

Unless you have a 10bit monitor (rare and very expensive) you can not see the difference as your monitor is 8 bit.
10 bit is useful for compositing and color grading. Otherwise, 8 bit it fine for everything else.
x

Render in high precision YUV

Hello,
My FCP (version 6.03) project contains several scenes. Each scene, which is made up of SD PAL clips, resides in its own sequence. I’m rendering each sequence in high precision YUV and nesting all of the sequences together in a new sequence. This parent sequence will be exported to Compressor. Should this parent sequence be rendered in high precision YUV too?
Thanks in advance

I'd make them the same...
Ya know, you don't HAVE to nest these sequences to a master. You can copy and paste the clips from the various scene sequences too... That way you know they are using the renders from the earlier sequences whose settings are exactly the same all the way down the line. But match these sequences exactly as far as all settings go.
Jerry

High precision YUV

I shoot DV SD PAL 8 bit. I put two or three filters on a clip. Does those effects will better looking when I run High precision YUV instaed of 8 bit YUV. The final output is DVD. Or can this make thing worse when running High YUV. Render time does not matter.

But in Apple manual says:
"This is the highest-quality option for processing video in Final Cut Pro. This option
processes all 8- and 10-bit video at 32-bit floating point. In certain situations, such as
when applying multiple filters to a single clip or compositing several clips together, a
higher bit depth will improve the quality of the final render file even though the
original clip has only 8 bits of color information "
To me it mean I will get better result or... ?

High precision YUV rendering

May seem a excessive....
I have a long project and I have decided to divede it in smoller videoclips for the final dvd, so I created new sequences for every new videoclip (portion of the previous bigger one). The original was rendered in high precision YUV and I forgot to modify the settings in the new sequences before pasting. I pasted, then modified the settings and then re rendered... is it ok anyway? I noticed that if you paste after changing the settings no rendering is required - I just want to be sure that the final result is the same.
Thanks

though if any changes are made to the sequence, it would kill the render, correct?
I just am seeing how exporting this with my color correction is taking 7 hours for my system to do.. I'd love to know if there is some secret way to have rendered files saved so that it doesn't take 7 hours every time, in case I have to make a change.
-p

8 bit or high precision

Question for those who edit a lot of miniDV-
Which render setting do you use or recommend? The 8 bit or the high precision YUV and is there a big difference between the 2? Seems like the high precision is kind of like polishing a turd, so to speak.

I rarely use 10 bit rendering, there are some bugs associated with the high precision, and the return is seldom there.
Patrick

Bit Depth and Render Quality

When you finally export media to some sort of media format via the encoder does the projects preview Bit Depth and Render Quality settings affect the output file?
I know there is "Use Preview files" setting in the media exporter dialogue but I just want to be sure of what I am doing.

Jeff's response is my perspective, as well, which is both backed up by my own tests and the official Adobe word.
Exhibit A: My Tests
That is DV footage with a title superimposed over it in a DV sequence, with a Gaussian blur effect (the Premiere accelerated one) applied to the title; all samples are from that sequence exported back to DV. This was to show the relative differences of processing between software and hardware MPE, Premiere export and AME queueing, and the effect of the Maximum Bit Depth and Maximum Render Quality options on export (not the sequence settings; those have no bearing on export).
The "blooming" evident in the GPU exports is due to hardware MPE's linear color processing. I think it's ugly, but that's not the point here. Further down the line, you can see the effect of Maximum Bit Depth (and MRQ) on both software MPE and hardware MPE. I assume you can see the difference between the Maximum Bit Depth-enabled export and the one without. Bear in mind that this is 8-bit DV footage composited and "effected" and exported back to 8-bit DV. I don't understand what your "padding with zeroes" and larger file size argument is motivated by--my source files and destination files are the same size due to the DV codec--but it's plainly clear that Maximum Bit Depth has a significant impact on output quality. Similar results would likely be evident if I used any of the other 32-bit enabled effects; many of the color correction filters are 32-bit, and should exhibit less banding, even on something 8-bit like DV.
Exhibit B: The Adobe Word
This is extracted from Karl Soule's blog post, Understanding Color Processing: 8-bit, 10-bit, 32-bit, and more. This section comes from Adobe engineer Steve Hoeg:
1. A DV file with a blur and a color corrector exported to DV without the max bit depth flag. We
will import the 8-bit DV file, apply the blur to get an 8-bit frame,
apply the color corrector to the 8-bit frame to get another 8-bit frame,
then write DV at 8-bit.
2. A DV file with a blur and a color corrector exported to DV with the max bit depth flag. We
will import the 8-bit DV file, apply the blur to get an 32-bit frame,
apply the color corrector to the 32-bit frame to get another 32-bit
frame, then write DV at 8-bit. The color corrector working on the 32-bit
blurred frame will be higher quality then the previous example.
3. A DV file with a blur and a color corrector exported to DPX with the max bit depth flag. We
will import the 8-bit DV file, apply the blur to get an 32-bit frame,
apply the color corrector to the 32-bit frame to get another 32-bit
frame, then write DPX at 10-bit. This will be still higher quality
because the final output format supports greater precision.
4. A DPX file with a blur and a color corrector exported to DPX without the max bit depth flag.
We will clamp 10-bit DPX file to 8-bits, apply the blur to get an 8-bit
frame, apply the color corrector to the 8-bit frame to get another
8-bit frame, then write 10-bit DPX from 8-bit data.
5. A DPX file with a blur and a color corrector exported to DPX with the max bit depth flag.
We will import the 10-bit DPX file, apply the blur to get an 32-bit
frame, apply the color corrector to the 32-bit frame to get another
32-bit frame, then write DPX at 10-bit. This will retain full precision through the whole pipeline.
6. A title with a gradient and a blur on a 8-bit monitor. This will display in 8-bit, may show banding.
7. A title with a gradient and a blur on a 10-bit monitor
(with hardware acceleration enabled.) This will render the blur in
32-bit, then display at 10-bit. The gradient should be smooth.
Bullet #2 is pretty much what my tests reveal.
I think the Premiere Pro Help Docs get this wrong, however:
High-bit-depth effects
Premiere Pro includes some video effects and transitions
that support high-bit-depth processing. When applied to high-bit-depth
assets, such as v210-format video and 16-bit-per-channel (bpc) Photoshop
files, these effects can be rendered with 32bpc pixels. The result
is better color resolution and smoother color gradients with these
assets than would be possible with the earlier standard 8 bit per
channel pixels. A 32-bpc badge appears
to the right of the effect name in the Effects panel for each high-bit-depth
effect.
I added the emphasis; it should be obvious after my tests and the quote from Steve Hoeg that this is clearly not the case. These 32-bit effects can be added to 8-bit assets, and if the Maximum Bit Depth flag is checked on export, those 32-bit effects are processed as 32-bit, regardless of the destination format of the export. Rendering and export/compression are two different processes altogether, and that's why using the Maximum Bit Depth option has far more impact than "padding with zeroes." You've made this claim repeatedly, and I believe it to be false.
Your witness...

Turning on Render at Maximum Bit Depth and Maximum Render Quality crashes render every time

I've tried a few times to render an H264 version of my Red media project with Maximum Bit Depth and Maximum Render Quality. Premiere crashes every time. I have GPUs enabled. Are people using these settings with Red media and successfully rendering?

To answer your specific question did you see the tooltip?
I beleive it allows for 32-bit processing (16-bit if unchecked). Per the project settings help file at http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-elements/using/project-settings-presets.html
Maximum Bit Depth
Allows Premiere Elements to use up to 32‑bit processing, even if the project uses a lower bit depth. Selecting this option increases precision but decreases performance.
The help file for export is somewhat less informative about what it actually does but does point out that it is the color bit depth - http://helpx.adobe.com/media-encoder/using/encode-export-video-audio.html
(Optional) Select Use Maximum Render Quality or Render At Maximum Bit Depth. Note: Rendering at a higher color bit depth requires more RAM and slows rendering substantially.
In practice the simplest suggestion is to export twice - once with / once without the setting and compare the time taken and perceived quality.
Cheers,
Neale
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children
If this post or another user's post resolves the original issue, please mark the posts as correct and/or helpful accordingly. This helps other users with similar trouble get answers to their questions quicker. Thanks.

Maximum bit depth-maximum render quality when dynamic linking

Hi
A bit confused by the use of Maximum bit depth and Maximum render quality as used both in Sequence Settings and also as options when rendering in AME.
1 Do you need to explicitly enable these switches in the sequence for best quality or, do you simply need to switch them on in AME when you render in Media Encoder?
2 When dynamic linking to After Effects, when should you use an 8 bit vs 16 or 32 bit working space, and, how does this bit depth interact with the maximum bit depth, maximum render quality in PPro?

Hi jbach2,
I understand your confusion. I'm like that most of the time I'm working. *chuckle* The two settings you mentioned are two completely different parameters affecting (or is it effecting) your video. You do not need to enable them within the sequence itself unless you want to preview video on you program monitor at the highest quality. I personally don't recommend it, as it's a tremendous resource hog, (the program even warns you when you try to click them) and unessecary for improving final output. Again, do not enable these options in your sequence settings if you are only wanting a high quality export. Doing so will greatly reduce your editing performance unless you have a high-end system. ...and even then I don't think its worth it unless you're editing on a huge screen with a Director who wants to see everything at a maximum quality during the edit process.
Keeping it simple...
Resizing your final output video? Use Maximum bit depth.
Starting or working with high bitdepth sources? Use Max Bit Depth.
When/where do I enable these? In the AME only. ^_^
Why?:
Enabling the Max bit and Max render only needs to be done when you are exporting. They both serve different functions.
Max Render aids in the scaling/conversion process only. My understanding is that you never need to enable the Max Render Quality (MRQ) unless you are exporting in a format/pixel ratio different from your original video. For example, when rendering a 1080p timeline out to a 480p file format, you'll want to use MRQ to ensure the best scaling with the least amount of artifacts and aliasing. If you're exporting at the same size you're working with, DON'T enable MRQ. It will just cost you time and CPU. Its only function is to do a high quality resizing of your work.
Maximum bit depth increases the color depth that your video is working with and rendering to. If you're working with video that has low color depth, then I don't believe it will matter. However, if you're working with 32 bit color on your timeline in PPro and/or After Effects, using lots of graphics, high contrast values, or color gradients, you may want to enable this option. It ultimately depends on the color depth of your source material.
The same applies to After Effects.
Create something in AE like a nice color gradient. Now switch the same project between 8,16,32 bit depth, and you will see a noticable difference in how the bit depth effects your colors and the smoothness of the gradient.
Bit depth effects how different plugins/effects change your overall image. Higher depth means more colors to work with (and incidentally, more cpu you need)
Just remember that "DEPTH" determines how many colors you can "fill your bucket with" and "QUALITY" is just that, the quality of your "resize".
http://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2010/06/understanding_color_processing.html
Check out this adobe blog for more info on color depth ^_^ Hope that helps!
----a lil excerpt from the blog i linked to above---
Now, 8-bit, 10-bit, and 12-bit color are the industry standards for recording color in a device. The vast majority of cameras use 8-bits for color. If your camera doesn’t mention the color bit depth, it’s using 8-bits per channel. Higher-end cameras use 10-bit, and they make a big deal about using “10-bit precision” in their literature. Only a select few cameras use 12-bits, like the digital cinema camera, the RED ONE.
Software like After Effects and Premiere Pro processes color images using color precision of 8-bits, 16-bits, and a special color bit depth called 32-bit floating point. You’ve probably seen these color modes in After Effects, and you’ve seen the new “32″ icons on some of the effects in Premiere Pro CS5.
jbach2 wrote:
Hi
A bit confused by the use of Maximum bit depth and Maximum render quality as used both in Sequence Settings and also as options when rendering in AME.
1 Do you need to explicitly enable these switches in the sequence for best quality or, do you simply need to switch them on in AME when you render in Media Encoder?
2 When dynamic linking to After Effects, when should you use an 8 bit vs 16 or 32 bit working space, and, how does this bit depth interact with the maximum bit depth, maximum render quality in PPro?
Message was edited by: SnJK

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Maybe this is a question which many of you will find easy to answer, but I do not understand why after rendering portions of my timeline that do need rendering, it plays fine, but if I close FCP and restart it later it needs to render those portions again...
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Render in 8-bit YUV or Render all YUV material in high-precision YUV

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