Segments Or Subclips ?

After I had replied to a question from Steve Kir I started to experiment with Segments and Subclips.
Until now I have usually split my clips into Subclips so that every scene is separated.
The only problem with Subclips is the dodgy numbering/ordering system.
However, I have just found that Segments can be used the same as Subclips and they are numbered consecutively from 1 to 100 or any amount.
Furthermore, just keeping them as Segments means one less process to go through.
Are there any disadvantages to using Segments in this way? There must be otherwise Subclips would be totally superfluous?
Ian.

Could you explain exactly what you're doing Ian? Segments are just marker sections in a clip. They don't exist in any way outside of the clip. If you drag a segment, that is drag the marker out of the clip, the segment becomes a subclip. If you drag the segment onto the top level of the project or into a new bin it's named Segment 1 from 'ClipName' and is a subclip. It follows FCE's conventional alphanumeric ordering segment 1 followed by segment 10, 11, and so on.
If you drag the segment directly from the clip into a sequence, you're making a subclip. It will work fine, but it does have a couple of downsides. The subclip that's in the sequence is an independent subclip. It has no master clip in the browser. This can, on longer projects, slow down sequence load times. It also means you lose the reveal in browser functionality. If you have the playhead over a clip in the sequence and press Shift-F it will show you where the master clip is even if it's buried deep in bins. This won't work, because there is no master clip in the browser. The match frame (F) function will work however.

Similar Messages

Should I Use Segments Or Subclips ?

How is this for showing my ignorance !
I don't usually use DV Start/Stop Detect but I have decided to on this project.
When it is used you get Segments which are correctly numbered from 1 upwards. You are then supposed to make subclips but this of course puts Segments 2 - 9 etc. in the wrong order and entails time-wasting re-numbering.
To save this happening could the original properly numbered Segments created from DV Start/Stop Detect be used?
Would there be any disadvantages to using them without bothering to change them into subclips?

Hi Ian
When I use DV Start/Stop Detect, I usually do like this: first I move the segmented clip into a new bin, then I Make Subclips so that all subclips are gathered together (and do not mix with other items in the browser), then I change 1, 2, ...9 into 01, 02, ...09 since I usually have less then 100 subclips.
The disadvantages I know are the following.
First: a subclip is a "master" clip and is not affiliated with its original clip; if you reconnect the original clip ("Pendle Hill"), you have also to reconnect any subclip created from that (all "Segment xx from "Pendle Hill" Subclip").
Second: there was a bug in FCE 3.5 that makes the Make Freeze Frame command to always take a picture of the last frame of a subclip in the timeline, instead of the frame under the playhead. That bug seems to exist also in FCE4. - Workarounds: use a nested sequence, or change the subclip into a clip.
Third: it is not really a disadvantage, but, as you know, making subclips doesn't help in recovering disk space since the media files are left untouched.
Other than that, I find subclips handy in my workflow: I drag them all to the timeline (after fixing 01, 02, etc.), I open each of them in the viewer and I fix its IN and OUT points. Closing the remaining gaps in the timeline is fast enough, even if not automatic. I could also drag subclips one by one to the viewer and then to the timeline, but I'm used the other way.
Piero
(As far as I know when you drag a segment into the timeline you create a subclip in the timeline without using the Make Subclip command)
Message was edited by: PieroF

Numbering of subclips

After I capture my video from the camera, I use Mark>>>DV Start/Stop Detect to break the large master clip into segments. Final Cut numbers these sequentially, from 1 to whatever. I select all of these segments and use Modify>>>Make Subclip to turn the segments into subclips. Now, however, Final Cut numbers the subclips as follows: 1, 10, 11, 12....19, 2, 20, 21, etc.
Nasty trick! I've looked in Preferences to see if there was something about numbering but can't find. I'm on Final Cut 7, but the earlier versions did the same thing.
Anyone have any ideas how to get the subclips to be numbered sequentially? Thanks!

You could sort by media start and all the clips will be in order.

How do I make a clip "independant" in FCP 7.0.3?

I have two imported DV clips.
- One is 45 minutes long
- One is about 15 minutes long
I want to break these two captured files up into "chunks" so I can edit them in the timeline without even referencing the original DV clips.
Reason: editing nightmare I am trying to resolve.
- I know how to use "mark dv start/stop" in each DV clip to segment my DV clips into my original "shots" on DV tape.
- I know how to make "subclips" from the 'segments".
What I don't know how to do is to make these new clips TOTALLY independant of the source footage because my edits are getting completely messed up. Someone suggested I make the new segment clips "independant" clips, but I can't seem to find that option anywhere.
Any suggestions?
thanks

Thank you ALL!
These are some of the best answer I have got so far, but let me run a few things by you and see what you think...
My original, orignal question was something like "How do I import and break up my video so I can edit my shots on the timeline?"
My real goal, as you might guess, is to make FCP do the grunt work so I can get my "shots" from the DV camera into the timeline so I can cut them, move them around, synch them to audio etc. That's why FCP is called a non-linear editor. Right?
I really don't want to have to export and then reimport a bunch of video clips because that's a lot of work for ME. I know that you can do this, and I know how to do it, but come on! I want to make FCP do that work, and theorietically it should be able to do this.
From digging around on the internet, and from asking multiple questions on this forum, here is the workflow I have peiced together. (I am not sure if it will work yet because I still have to test it...)
I think the complete answer is:
1) Capture video to a project (the whole tape)
2) Select the master clip (the whole tape) in the browser and choose "Mark/ DV Start/Stop" (just like you said)
3) Select the resulting video "segments" in the browser and choose "Make Clip" from the modify menu (this converts the original captured segments into subclips)
4) Select the resulting video subclips and drag them to the timeline for editing (I am not sure if I also need to "Remove Clip Limitations" from the subclips as well, but at least I know where to look if my 5 steps don't work)
5) Right click on the video subclips in the timeline and choose "make independant clip"
The bottom line is that I am trying to get FCP to do the grunt work of keeping track of my video ins/outs, segments, subclips and independant clips without me having to manage 100 files on my hard drive in the project folder! The whole point of NLE is to let the computer figure out how to arrange and render all of your stuff based on information that is stored in the FCP file.
Thoughts?

Help with splitting and arranging clips

Hi All,
Can some please help a complete noob by explaining their simple workflow for FCE HD from after capture to edit.
I am new to digital editing and am working my way through Tom's book but am a little confused in regards to arranging and organising my clips. I have a new project (My niece's 1st B'day party) which currently has 1 master clip (I think this is the terminology) with several (27) segments after running DV Start/Stop.
This is where I get confused. I want to arrange the segments into Bins, for example: Birthday girl, cake, games etc... But there is something about relationships between master clip, segments and subclips which I don't understand.
How is the best way to "cut up" (and is that the best way) the segments into smaller master clips so i can rename then, rearrange them and add comments in preperation for editing?
Sorry for the long post, but when you don't really know what you want to say you end up saying a lot
Cheers.
Andrew

I don't use the Master/Subclip relationships. My method of sorting out various types of clip, by subject (your examples of "Birthday girl, cake, games etc...") is to slide (click, hold and drag) all obviously bad clips into V3 and ignore (mostly), and then slide all the Birthday girl clips on to V2 and move them sideways to group them closer together, then do the same for each other group. This leaves in V1 some shots such as establishing shots, closeups of decorations, departures etc. which you know where to put (eg., establishing shots at the beginning, closeups cut in somewhere where suitable as the editing proceeds). Next, I drag down and left or right various clips from V2 to V1 to their appropriate positions in order, leaving gaps between here and there to avoid having to move sets of clips left and right too often to make room. Then I set In and Out points in the Timeline (or Viewer) and close gaps between the clips within each set and see how that set looks. When all the material has gone through that process I check the whole video and make (usually) minor) changes, then do transitions and set audio levels, then leave it for a few days to look at it afresh.
Is this a bizarre method? What do you pros do?

Backing up unedited family video: Should I capture using FCE or iMovie?

I have >50 hours of family video (kids) that I'm not ready to edit yet. I would like to capture the footage in order to back it up because it is priceless. My plan is to buy some large hard disks and save video there, and then when Blu-Ray comes out, I'll buy a Blu-Ray drive and burn Blu-Ray disks as an additional layer of safety.
The captured files will need to be in a format that lasts. As far as I can tell, both FCE and iMovie save captured clips as Quicktime files, which I'm guessing will be around for a while and compatible with future video editing apps. Both FCE and iMovie can import Quicktime clips. I'll be importing the entire hour of video from each tape, in a single capture.
My question is this:
If...
(a) rendering doesn't bother me (like importing clips using iMovie then editing using FCE)
(b) timecode isn't important to me (iMovie doesn't save timecode)
... is there any reason to capture the video using Final Cut instead of iMovie?
The only feature that FCE has that iMovie doesn't, is the ability to detect dropped frames during capture. Are there other reasons?
I like the fact that iMovie splits the capture into individual clips at each break and saves each clip as an individual file. If you're willing to do the work, FCE/FCP can do this to, using DV Start/Stop detect, making the segments into subclips, then exporting them as individual clips. FCP makes this a practical possibility using batch export, whereas FCE lacks that feature and exporting each clip one by one is impractical (I have maybe 200 individual clips per hour of tape). But this is a task I plan for later. Right now my concern is finding the "best way" to capture and save all this video for later editing.
I guess I could also ask, should timecode be important to me? My tapes contain a lot of timecode breaks, so recapturing video from tape automatically isn't likely to work well. I don't know any other reason timecode might be important for consumer-level family video.
PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5 GHz 3GB RAM Mac OS X (10.4.7) NVIDIA GeForce 7800GT

Anthony,
while I fully agree with Al answer, let me add one note in favor of iMovie in answering your original specific question (note: I'm a quite happy user of FCE for all its advantages over iMovie, but for the point I'm going to make).
The basic difference between FCE and iMovie in scene detection (based on the same principle of using date/time breaks as dividers), is that iMovie creates as many media files as clips during capture itself, while FCE Subclips are created AFTER the capture of a unique media file, using DV Start/Stop Detect and Make Subclip, that does NOT splits files.
So you'd better consider now if recovering unused disk space, by trashing unused clips, will be a major issue for you in the future, when you'll be editing your movies. If so, keep in mind that this job is very simple if you captured with iMovie and then imported its clips to FCE (and if you confirm you don't mind about TC and audio rendering), while it is quite complex if you captured directly with FCE, and, I'd say, not recommended unless absolutely needed.
Piero

Who Wanted Scene-Detection On Captured Footage With No Timecode?

Did I dream this ?
I am sure that recently somebody had captured some video without timecode and wanted to know whether FCE could split it automatically into separate scenes.
My only suggestion was to split it manually which would take ages.
Last night I was looking at Tom's "FCE 4 Editing Workshop" and came across a slightly quicker and less laborious suggestion than mine.
Basically load the clip into the Viewer, play it and each time there is a change of scene hit the "M" key which will insert a marker.
At the end, the clip in the browser will be split into segments just as though "DV Start/Stop Detect" had been used.
Then simply select all the segments and press cmd U which will convert all the segments to subclips.
This morning I eagerly searched through the old questions to see if it had been answered and if not, to offer my/Tom's answer.
Of course I could not find any trace of the question !
Did I dream it ?
If you are that person (or know the thread) could you please put me out of my misery!

Hello Ian,
You are in luck tonight/whenever it is in your part of the word:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5148749&#5148749
Al

Cannot hear audio for subclips playback in source monitor

Hi,
My editor has merged a bunch of video and multichannel audio on his computer and created merged clips and sub clips for me to look at. Now it's my turn to make selects from the merged subclips, but when I open the project on my computer the subclips don't play back with sound (however, the regular full merged clips play just fine). There clearly is audio attached to the subclips (i can see the waveforms) and the correct audio channels are turned on, but the no sound is played. However, when I drag these subclips into the timeline, the audio channels are all turned off -- I can turn the relevant channels on and then the audio plays in program monitor from the timeline!
Since my editor didn't have this problem on his computer, I assume it has something to do with the settings on my premiere pro.
Does anyone have any ideas?
thanks

I'm not sure if it would account for the exact problem you're encountering, but there is a known issue with subclips saved from merged clips. It involves the Media Start and End timecodes being improperly calculated. Even if this bug does not account for the particular issue you're reporting, I recommend not using subclips from merged clips for the time being. Two workarounds:
Rather than saving subclips from your merged clips, insert each segment into a sequence for review.
If you really want separated clips in the Project panel, make duplicates of the original merged clip and then set in/out points in each
If the bug records are correct, this issue was introduced in CC7.2, so another option is to roll back to 7.1. In that light, I'm curious whether you and your editor are on the same version.

Create Independent FILES from SubClips...

I'm at a Studio where we use FCP 5.1.4(PPC Mac), PremierePro(PC), & VegasPro(PC).
_On a current project_:
~ 1 DV Tape was captured to NTSC DV File using FCP 5.1.4 then SubClipped using Scene Detect.
Some of these SubClips need to be exported as QT files so other sections of the program can simultaneously be edited in PremierePro(PC), & VegasPro(PC). I have searched the Forums trying to find out how to Export SubClips to Self-Contained QT Files but have only found the suggestion/solution of using CatDV or Live Capture Plus, but naturally I would rather use the tools I already have if possible. I know that both PremierePro(PC), & VegasPro(PC) can SceneDetect/Divide your clips during capture yielding individual Self-Contained files.
There are 60plus SubClips and I would truly hate to mark In/Out for each individual clip and export 1 by 1.
~ When I try to use 'Make Independent' it's Greyed Out.
~ When I try to use 'Batch Export' I still only get the 1 QT file of the entire tape.
~ When I try to use 'Media Manager' I still only get the 1 QT file of the entire tape. +<-- I can't help but to feel that using the Media Manager is how it's done.+
Question:
~ How do I turn my SubClips into Self-Contained QT files?

Thanks for the links +David Bogie Chq-1.+
Although Ken Stone's articles didn't help me much I managed to figure out that I could:
~ Capture my entire Tape
~ Select the Clip in the Browser
~ Mark > Detect Scene
~ Select the Segments in the Browser & Drag/Drop to Timeline
~ Select Sequence in Browser
~ Tools > Create Master Clips
~ Select Master Clip Folder in Browser
~ File > Batch Export +(Export Que Opens)+
~ Select Batch in Export Que
~ Set Options via Settings +(at the bottom of the window - Be sure to select Make Self-Contained & Use Item In/Out))+
~ Hit EXPORT +(at the bottom of the window)+
After the Render Que is complete you can Hit View Exported to go to the Folder where the Renders were stored or Open the Target Path in Finder and you can see the files populating as they complete.
~ The only thing that ***** is that you get really long file names like this +"Segment 1 from 'CarLab1.mov'.mov"+ and I don't see how you can tell it to name them otherwise.
~~ Please, if anyone has a better method... SHARE!

Creating or editing subclips

Hi all,
When I want to edit the audio of a subclip created in FCP, the entire clip opens in Soundtrack, not just the portion of it that I've made into a subclip. Even if I mark the In and Out in FCP, it opens without showing this segment, so I can't see where the specific portion is.
I'm new to using Soundtrack as my editing tool, and my requirements of it are pretty basic, just clean up and cut up audio clips.
Is it possible to:
– create an audio subclip within Soundtrack? Hopefully something similar to FCP such as marking the In and Out > CMD + U.
or
– edit the audio of a FCP subclip without saving the clip first as a separate file? (e.g select subclip in FCP > right click > open in editor, perform the edit then see the changes immediately when I roundtrip to FCP)
Thank you,
Andrew

Also, when you "sub-clip" a file, all FCP does is add some pointers to that segment of the clip. It does not create a unique new file. This is why when you send the "sub-clip" to STP, the whole file comes thorugh.
Subclipping has some useful organizational functions but its limits with clip manipulation really soured the deal for me - I do a lot of retiming (slow mo/ accellerated playback) and sub-clips never really worked well in that world. I generally use Markers for organizing elements in longer clips.
YMMV.
x

Subclip numbering

Friends,
I have FCE 3.5 and have what should be a simple problem. After importing a project I run DV stop/start detect to break up the imported file into segments. I then make subclips out of the segments. The segments are created in numerical order (1-40). The subclips are created in a different pattern (1, 10-19, 2, 20-29, 3, 30-39, etc.) This is annoying and moderately inconvenient. Is there anything I can do to change this preference of FCE?
Thanks!
Steve

That's a great suggestion, with one problem: it requires me to rename each segment before making subclips. If I have to do that, I can just as easily rename the subclips. It seems an odd quirk that the program would create well-ordered segments, then screw things up when making subclips.
It's not the end of the world, but it is annoying.
Steve

Edit & export audio segments as separate files?

Hi,
I'm cutting up recordings of PowerPoint presentations into separate clips, one per slide. I am wondering how I can edit on the timeline, then mark each slide, master the audio, and export one clip per marker. Is that segmenting done from Premiere, or is it an option to export one file per marker within Media Encoder? How?
Or, do I need to use subclips instead? Please don't say I need to do a sequence for each slide (or would that be less messy than it sounds?).
Or should I do this editing in Soundbooth instead, since the editing is basically audio-driven? How's segmenting done there?
Thanks!
>B

Hi Kevin -
It's funny... We are doing the exact same thing that you are. We are recording webinars, chunking up the audio into individual files according to PPT slides, and putting the audio back into the PPT presentation so they can be played back as the presentation initially aired. We're also exporting the reconstituted presentations as standalone webcasts that people watch online.
Okay - here's how we're doing it... I record the webinar's audio and video (Camtasia for audio and GoToWebinar's built-in .WMV recorder for video). I make a new project in Premiere and import both the video and audio. I only use the .wmv for visual reference (to know exactly where to split the long audio clip). I go through the audio clip and do an Alt + [ to mark the left side of the work area (essentially the In point) and Alt + ] to mark the right slide of the work area (essentially the Out point). I then split the clip at the out point (Control + K) in case I have to go back and re-edit or re-export later. Once I have my slide's audio marked with a work area, I go to file, export, media. This launches Adobe Media Encoder. In AME, I make .mp3s of each slide's audio. I then reinsert the .mp3s in the PPT presentation.
What I would LIKE to do is put chapter or Flash markers at the end of each slide's audio and then have it chunk up the clips for me based on the markers. The quest to do that led me to this post. I'll let you know if I find out any info on how to do that, but for now, the process is pretty manual and time-consuming. I am a long-time Avid editor, and that offers no solution either. What have you found with Final Cut?
Something also that may work for you (but not for us for various reasons) is iSpring Presenter's sync function. This allows you to bring in the entire audio clip and put it on the first PPT slide. Then you click a stopwatch icon when the audio is supposed to go to a different slide. This syncs up your audio and PPT for you. No more Premiere. Here is specific info on how to do that. It works great. We don't use it because we have to cut back into the presentation with live audio. But it may work great for what you're doing.
http://www.ispringsolutions.com/kb/faq/pro/42.html

Match frame from subclip to original full clip?

Can anybody tell me if it is possible to match frame from a subclip to the original full clip? When I match frame from a clip in my timeline that came from a subclip, the subclip loads into the source monitor. I can't find how to then match frame from that back to the original. I am relatively new to Premiere Pro, and this is a very very useful feature over in Avid land.
Thanks.

Thanks for elaborating.
You can achieve at least part of what you describe by making your subclips "soft." To do so at creation-time, in the Make Subclip dialog, uncheck the option "Restrict Trims to Subclip Boundaries." To convert an existing "hard" subclip, access the Edit Subclip dialog (Clip>Edit Subclip, or right-click>Edit Subclip, or define a keyboard shortcut and use that) and uncheck the option.
Soft and hard subclips behave differently in two notable ways:
when you doubleclick a soft subclip in the Timeline, the Source Monitor loads the whole clip. The zoom/scrub bar is zoomed in to the In/Out range of what's used in the sequence, but you can zoom out to view the whole thing. Note that Match Frame does not load the clip in the same way--you're not able to zoom out. However, double-clicking a clip automatic matches frame (if the playhead is over the clip you clicked).
You can trim out beyond the defined Subclip Boundaries, either in the Timeline or Source Monitor.
Now, if you want to create a completely new subclip for a different segment, there's no direct command for that, but it's achievable through a series of steps that you may find easier than restarting from the original master clip. (Almost all of the following commands can be executed via keyboard shortcuts.)
Reveal in Project (from Timeline or Source Mon)
Duplicate
Load the dupe in the Source Monitor
Edit Subclip
Select the option "Convert to Master Clip" checkbox and click OK.
At this point, the whole clip will be loaded in the Source Monitor, zoomed to the subclip's In/Out range but without In/Out points set. You can set new In/Out points, then save a new subclip.
As to why PPro does not maintain a master/sub relationship, I'm afraid I have no clue. I'd say it merits a feature request--both to maintain the link and, naturally, to provide a way to jump from the subclip to the master. You can submit such a request here: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

DVD Start/Stop and Subclips

Question: In my browser I have double clicked a clip, it opens in the viewer, I then go to >View>DVD start/stop and the markers are inserted. Once I go back to the browser and highlight the markers and go to Modify>make subclips, FCP will only convert about 27 or 28 of the markers to subclips, when there is actually over 100 markers. Is there a maxium limit on the number of markers that can be converted or that will appear in the browser list? Hope I am clear.
G5-1.8GHz-2GB DDR SDRAM- 250 ATA HD just upgraded to FCP 5.1
Thanks,
Mary
Power Mac G5 Mac OS X (10.4.8)

I've done it both ways, not sure which is easier.
HDV capture creates individual clips (individual media files) based on the detected start/stop and uses a name you specify at the initiation of the capture appending a sequence number to the end of the name for each new clip. S/S detect always uses the name "Segment". Like the Segment clips, HDV clips are in natural order, as you say. I'm guessing that the file system is smart enough to consider the entire number at the end of a name, but sorts character by charcter if the number is in the middle of the name.
Just seems a little short sighted to use different naming conventions for essentially the same function, especially when it causes the files to be out of order.

Subclip naming

After using DVD start stop and making subclips out of the results, the names of the subclips are "Segment 1 from...", "Segment 2 from...". In addition to being excessively wordy, because there are no leading zeros, they sort charcter by character as
Segment 1 from...
Segment 10 from...
Segment 100 from...
Segment 101 from...
Right now I am manually renaming the first 100 subclips.
Clips captured from HDV have a common file name with an appended sequence number, again with no leading zeros, but for some reason they stay in propoer order. Is that because the number is at the end and therefore treated as a number? Is there a way to cause the subclips to be named in this manner?

I've done it both ways, not sure which is easier.
HDV capture creates individual clips (individual media files) based on the detected start/stop and uses a name you specify at the initiation of the capture appending a sequence number to the end of the name for each new clip. S/S detect always uses the name "Segment". Like the Segment clips, HDV clips are in natural order, as you say. I'm guessing that the file system is smart enough to consider the entire number at the end of a name, but sorts character by charcter if the number is in the middle of the name.
Just seems a little short sighted to use different naming conventions for essentially the same function, especially when it causes the files to be out of order.

Segments Or Subclips ?

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