Shake vs. Motion... a discussion

While I have often reached for Motion when I used to go for Shake before, Motion still hasn't replaced Shake for me. The keyers in Shake beat the pants off Motion's offerings. Motion's trackers, smoothcam, optical flow retiming, though do hold up well in comparison, though. Motion's 3D world is also much easier to use than anything in Shake.
I do wish Motion had a nodal view. While things like clone layers help, I can often visualize and work better with nodes than with layer stacks. Combustion gives both nodal and layer views.
Of course there's Shake's morph/warp that has no equivalent in Motion, but I only use that once in a while.
I like the display and control of masks in Shake over Motion - finer lines, and adjustable feathering...
Anyone else have thoughts?
Patrick

Patrick, you summed things up quite well.
I'm 100% pro-nodal. It just makes complex processing sooooo much easier.
Pity that Shake doesn't have particles and that Shake's 3D is so basic,
but that was the decision Apple made. Rather than continuing to develop
Shake as the industry-leading problem solver, they decided to mine it
for chunks of code so they could create something more like After Effects.

Similar Messages

  • Shake becomes Motion 5?

    Apple seems to have taken Motion very seriously in the last 2 version (Motion 4 especially) with the introduction of shadows, reflections, 3D planes & particles and even optical flow retiming.
    Whilst I think it's an awesome app and serves a role very well, it's far from being a Shake replacement.
    So my question: Now that Shake's "dead", do you think Apple could introduce a seperate/optional/switchable Node system UI within Motion, basically merging the 2 apps? This could make for a killer app. Combining real time layer based visual effects creation and industry standard Node based compositing.
    Am I dreaming?! Or could this be a future reality?

    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=11509021#11509021

  • Shake with Motion & Final Cut

    I am new to Shake but here's what I want to achieve:
    A man is standing in a street in the middle of an earthquake. The Man will be masked out so that the quaking will only affect his surroundings
    I have edited it in FCP and I'll use Motion to achieve the 'quaking' effect.
    I am thinking I'd export 2 video files (one with the shaking on it, and one without) then bring both in to shake in 2 layers and mask the shaking layer
    I'm aware that all 3 applications integrate well together. Is there an easier way?
    thanks!
    G5 Dual    

    I was just wondering if you might want something looser (like a circle mask) if the effect tapered off as it got closer to you person.
    You can "roto" in motion. It is not the easiest application to do it with, but if its' only a little bit (of course there is no such thing as a little bit of roto) then draw a mask in motion and key frame it's position. Follow the general rules of roto and you can cut out just about anything.
    This is going to be easier in Shake and if learning how in Shake is worth the time taken to render a file of the quake from motion and then compositing it in Shake... You decide.
    TonyTony

  • Shake discussion

    Where is the Shake discussion? I figured the most likely canidates to be using Shake would be either FCP or Motion users.
    If Shake is an Apple Pro app then I would hope that there would be a discussion group under the Pro heading. Does anyone know why Apple is not supporting Shake the same as other apps? Is Shake going to be discontinued? It appears to have some great features but I m concerned about support.

    Heya,
    With the release of Shake 4.1, Apple announced that they are no longer supporting Shake (aside from installation, which is still supported by AppleCare).
    Beyond that, there never has been a Shake forum on the Apple boards. The semi-official forum was always at HighEnd2D.com, which is now FXshare. There you will find a Shake listserv and a discussion forum. There is also a Shake forum on Creative Cow.

  • Database usage with Motion and/or Shake

    Is it possible to create templates in motion that pull information from databases to fill drop zones? Since Shake uses c programming, can you merge a database with shake to create video content? For example, if you create a database and list in that database pics and text, can it be merged with Shake or Motion to create the video?

    Motion doesn't have this kind of option at least at the moment.
    Only thing that comes to my mind is that you can make database connections to Quartz Composer files and use those as generators in Motion through Noise Industries FxFactory Pro.
    Of course if you're coder you can also edit Motion files (which are XML) with any text editor and change your drop zones by hand. Actually I think there was/is some program which allowed you to modify/render huge amount of Motion templates with information coming from different sources.
    UPDATE: Okay now I remembered the product. It's Digital Heavens AutoMotion. No Idea how well it works but you can download trial from their site.
    http://www.digital-heaven.co.uk/automotion/
    Message was edited by: Tapz

  • Motion 3 & Shake - Which To Choose?

    OK, not trying to start a war.. I just have some basic questions regarding these two apps. Looking for some opinions on this.
    I am fairly new to Shake, so with the announcement of FCS2 I am considering moving away from Shake in favor of Motion 3. I really like Shake and I understand the workflow, but now there is much overlap between the two applications (at least for my needs). Re-timing, GPU acceleration, motion tracking, etc. From what I understand, some features from Shake made their way over to M3.
    As a serious hobbyist (filmmaker), am I making a mistake by not keeping Shake in my toolbox? I'm honestly having trouble thinking of things I'm doing in Shake that Motion 3 could not handle (again, for at least for my immediate needs).
    Thanks all-

    Since there is, and won't be any more upgrades to Shake, there's no reason abandon it. The more ways you can skin a cat, the better. Keep it in your toolbox. It doesn't even take up much hard drive space.
    Also, I think Motion 3 will remain primarily a motion graphics application. It's great that it's borrowing some tech from Shake, but I think that's a desire to compete with After Effects. I doubt Apple is building Motion to be a Shake killer. I have the feeling we're going to see a successor to Shake somewhere down the road.
    I'm not a Shake user myself (yet), but I have an pretty good idea how **** powerful it can be. You mentioned you were new to the program, so it could just be that you haven't quite unearthed its potential, or haven't had need to yet. But if you're making films, it would probably be remiss to disregard Shake in light of Motion 3.
    Mac Pro 2.66Ghz - 3GBs RAM - X1900XT   Mac OS X (10.4.8)  

  • Can Motion 2 do this or do I need Shake?

    I need to have a subject's arms stretch like Mr. Fantastic in the Fantastic Four. The person will grab objects off of a bill board and resize them with his hands. Can I do something like this in Motion? If not, does shake give me the contols to pull this off? If the answer is yes to either porgram.. pleae give me a brief synopsis of which controls I would use to do this.
    Thanks!

    I hate to say this, wizard, because it sounds so elitist, but f you know enough about the programs to be able to do what needs to be done, you wouldn't be asking that question.
    There is no "Mr. Fantastic effect" (or node in Shake). You could probably do something like you are describing, but it would require using Shake or Motion at a high level. Probably a warp in Shake. In Motion, you might get by with rotoing the arms, then using 4 corner to stretch. Maybe with some distort to bend... it's a puzzler.
    Sorry, I know of no tutorial that would teach that effect - but I can bet you that they probably spent more on the CG effects in that movie than on Jessica Alba...
    Patrick

  • Motion Stabilize vs Shake Smooth Cam

    Hello all,
    I am a Final Cut Express user that is looking to take some camera jitter out of a few clips I've taken. I know that FCE has and image stabilizer filter but for the life of me I can not seem to get good results by using it. This may or may not be operator error but in my defense I have done some research on using it. I also have access to Motion as well as Shake and in my research I've discovered that these apps also have tools for image stabilization.
    I've also discovered iStabilize which is much more consumer based (probably a good thing based on my sklills) but it would require purchasing it and it mostly likely will not provide the results of Motion or Shake (if I can figure out how to use them).
    To remove the video camera shake, which app will most likely produce better results and what additional considerations should be noted?
    Keep in mind that I have a decent background with FCE but virtually no background in Shake or Motion. I have however reviewed the manuals and watched a few demos. I've also launched both apps and have taken a stab at both (again with limited results). In motion I was able to apply the Stabilizer behavior and actually export the clip but I'm pretty confident I'm not utilizing it to the fullest as my clip is still very shaky. In Shake I was able to start a new script and add the Smooth Cam node but I could not figure out how to export the clip. Can I export as a quicktime file so I can easily put it back into my FCE project?
    So I guess my main questions are:
    Which app will remove camera shake better?
    How do I actually do it?
    Before I switched to Mac I used a very basic app for image stabilization. It was not a pro app but it was easy to use and produced decent results. I liked the fact that it had a split screen view where I can compare the clip before and after. From my poking around in Motion and Shake I can't seem to find a similar view.
    Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!
    ps. Here is an example of the videos I make. Its non-professional but I do like my projects to look decent. If I can learn a little about Motion or Shake and successfully have a good workflow for removing camera shake I will be thrilled. Thanks!
    http://www.splitboard.com/vids/somewhere.mov
    Message was edited by: bcrider

    hi,
    I'm not a big Shaker user but i believe you have to apply an Output node in order to render stuff out. However Specialcase is correct since Motion and Shake use the same technologies the results should be pretty similar. Motion is obviously easier to use. Just play around with the settings you'll get there. Motion doesnt have the split pane view, but you can just toggle the filter on and off to compare.
    Had a look at your film, and it looks very nice, the images are really stunning, well shot. Does that have camera stabilization in it. Looks pretty good. But did you know that the music track is only coming out of one channel?
    Keep at it
    regards
    adam

  • Motion Stabilizer vs Shake Smooth Cam

    Hello all,
    I am a Final Cut Express user that is looking to take some camera jitter out of a few clips I've taken. I know that FCE has and image stabilizer filter but for the life of me I can not seem to get good results by using it. This may or may not be operator error but in my defense I have done some research on using it. I also have access to Motion as well as Shake and in my research I've discovered that these apps also have tools for image stabilization.
    I've also discovered iStabilize which is much more consumer based (probably a good thing based on my sklills) but it would require purchasing it and it mostly likely will not provide the results of Motion or Shake (if I can figure out how to use them).
    To remove the video camera shake, which app will most likely produce better results and what additional considerations should be noted?
    Keep in mind that I have a decent background with FCE but virtually no background in Shake or Motion. I have however reviewed the manuals and watched a few demos. I've also launched both apps and have taken a stab at both (again with limited results). In motion I was able to apply the Stabilizer behavior and actually export the clip but I'm pretty confident I'm not utilizing it to the fullest as my clip is still very shaky. In Shake I was able to start a new script and add the Smooth Cam node but I could not figure out how to export the clip. Can I export as a quicktime file so I can easily put it back into my FCE project?
    So I guess my main questions are:
    Which app will remove camera shake better?
    How do I actually do it?
    Before I switched to Mac I used a very basic app for image stabilization. It was not a pro app but it was easy to use and produced decent results. I liked the fact that it had a split screen view where I can compare the clip before and after. From my poking around in Motion and Shake I can't seem to find a similar view.
    Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!
    ps. Here is an example of the videos I make. Its non-professional but I do like my projects to look decent. If I can learn a little about Motion or Shake and successfully have a good workflow for removing camera shake I will be thrilled. Thanks!
    http://www.splitboard.com/vids/somewhere.mov
    Message was edited by: bcrider

    YOU DA MAN captain mench!
    That was just the type of thing I was looking for. It really helped bring the pre-existing knowledge I've gathered from my readings and 1st attempt into scope. I've now got the motivation and confidence to get back into shake and try it again. Thanks!
    In regards to the camera and video. Thanks and glad you liked it. I shot it with the Canon HV10. The video I posted wasn't so much an example of the camera jitter as much as it was just an example of what I do. Thanks for the advice either way. I'm looking forward to doing more color correction in my projects too. Up until now I've settled for less. As I learn the apps I'm more interested in making the absolute best I can. I'm sure I don't have to tell you it's a work in progress.
    Thanks again. I'll be back if I need more help.
    ps. Does color correcting the clip first have any effect on how well Shake and SmoothCam will remove jitter? Also, when I send from FCP to Shake does it remove the interlacing? I noticed that SmoothCam only works with de-interlaced footy. Thoughts?

  • Advise on dual 1.25 G4 graphics card upgrade to run Motion and Shake.

    I have a dual 1.25 GHz G4 PowerMac running 10.4.7 and would like to use Motion and Shake. Motion will not install with the factory ATI Radeon 9000 Pro card and Shake requests OpenGL support so I did not bother trying the install.
    I'm considering the Radeon 9800 PRO or the GeForce 7600 GT
    I'm also running an ACARD 6880M raid card for storage and hope to avoid any conflicts.
    Any advise is much appreciated.

    You should be able to get an AGP GeForce 7 series card. It's either a 7600 or 7800, but beyond that I can't remember. Of course, you'll have to flash it, possibly solder on a 128K EEPROM, tape or cut some pins, make sure you have a strong enough power supply...
    Your other options are a Radeon 9800 Pro or GeFroce 6800 (Ultra, GT?). You can probably find a PC Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB card (make sure it has 8 memory chips instead of 16, is not AGP Pro/Double-Wide, is prerferably DDR and not DDR2, and to avoid soldering try to find one with a 128K EEPROM - which would never be specified on a site or anything). Again, you'd have to flash it and tape some pins as they're meant for AGP8x slots. They also don't fit well if you try to change their fan/heatsink, or so I've been told.
    Definitely max your RAM, but maybe avoid PC3200 memory modules. ; P

  • Motion 4 versus Shake Question

    I understand that Shake is Nodal Base versus Motion which is a Linear (Layering) Compositor but:
    Since Shake has been discontinued will Motion 4 fill in for Shake? I know the Nodal (Map) base cannot be done in Motion 4 but I also heard that Nodal Base Compositors are cumbersome because of the lack of a timeline?
    Anyhow how can one possible get a near interface feel of shake in Motion 4? Does Motion 4 have more advanced features over Shake?

    a nice option to get nodes into Motion itself is Conduit:
    http://www.dvgarage.com/prod/prod.php?prod=conduit2
    allows for node based compositing operations across motion, fcp, after effects (cs3 only supprted at this stage) and even photoshop, the after effects version works on windows too.
    It's defiantly worth a look before you go further into more complicated/expensive node based territory
    Message was edited by: lucid motion

  • Why is Motion so much quicker than FCP doing Steady Cam?

    Being a helicopter operator I keep doing projects that require steady cam.
    I used to use Shake, then Motion, and now FCP with the additon of steadycam but I am wondering why Motion is so much quicker than FCP with the same clip.
    Maybe a dumb question but one I need to ask.

    running the same filter in both fcp and motion, motion always renders faster.
    This is because motion renders and draws all frames directly on your graphics card. FCP now uses the GPU for many effects but has to read back from your card to main memory.
    Unless Apple does a total rewrite of FCP this is unlikely to change, guess you either have to keep swapping apps or put up with longer renders in FCP.
    Roger
    CoreMelt

  • Motion 4 wont open ?

    Forgive me for posting a motion 4 question in the motion 5 discussion but i couldnt see a motion 4 discussion board on the menu.
    When i try to launch motion 4  from the desktop icon i get the following message
    Motion quit unexpectedly.
    Click reopen to open the application again.
    I am running motion 4 with FCP 7 and i have used motion previously without any hassle. I am able to get into the file browser by clicking cancel when asked to select project preset however when i try to open a new or existing project I get the message above.
    Can anyone help ??
    thanks .

    Might be worth you trashing your Motion preferences as that may then let Motion 4 to open up - look it up on google
    ~/Library/Preferences
    com.apple.motion.plist
    Alan

  • Slow Motion Issues FCP (not PAL issue)

    Hi,
    I have researched this, and it seems it is a common problem, with many contradictory answers. I have FCP NTSC, and am uploading HDV. When I slow it down, it becomes jittery and choppy. I hear this was an issue in the PAL version, but it seems to be an issue with my editing as well. We shot it in 60i by the way. Unfortunately I don't have any other associated programs, just FCP 5 (so no ProRes, though I would like to get my hands on it). Anyhoo, some good input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

    Bare in mind that you are trying to make less frames persist over a longer duration. When you do a slow motion adjustment, you have to duplicate frames, which makes your footage look steppy. I have found that anything more than about 75% of the original speed looks quite choppy. Frame blending will cover a little bit, but when you look at overcranked footage and compare the two, you can really see the difference. If you use Shake or Motion for the slow-mo, you can utilize the optical reflow machine which will create interpolated frames to help with the missing information.

  • What exactly is Shake?

    I have been doing a lot of research and have already run across a few things that I wanted to do in a video clip, but not sure of what product to use. My more specific question is, does Apple have a product that competes or does similar things to Adobe Aftereffects? is Shake that product or is Motion?
    I've been trying to decide whether Shake was something that I needed to have as part of my process suite but not sure as to exactly what it does. It seems to overlap some what with other products like Color and Motion and confuses me a bit. Hopefully someone here can help get me straight.
    As an example, I was watching a video someone did where they wanted a room to look a certain way. To accomplish this they actually selected one side wall that they liked, copied it to the other side of the room and then colored it to match the other wall (it was a different color). He used Aftereffects to accomplish this and so I'm wondering if that product would be something to have or if Shake or Motion can accomplish similar types of functions.
    Thanks,
    glenn

    Yeah, that makes both of us... I'm trying to learn enough tools to do most jobs that come my way. I have FCP 6, Motion, Color, DVD Pro. I am no expert at any of them but have learned a lot and am using them all... Motion to a lesser degree but learning. I then ran across the guy with the video where he was talking about AE and it got me wondering if I had the tools to do something like that or if this would be another package that I'd need to get and learn.
    I have no real need for it at this point as I'm still learning what I have, but like to plan for the future and be aware of my limitations so that if a job comes up I can immediately know if I'd be able to do it or if I'd need another package.
    I saw Apple had Shake but when I read its data sheet it seems to overlap with what I thought Color and Motion did to at least some degree, so was just confused. Its sorta sounding though that if I had FCP Studio and AE that I'd be pretty set, although I'd like to stay with the Apple Suite of applications as possible just to keep things as tightly integrated as possible.
    Sorry for asking such a broad question like this... Just something I was confused and thinking about and wanted to have a plan in case I needed it.
    Thanks,
    glenn

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