Soft proofing bug on my computer

I find that if I soft proof an image and create the soft proof copy that if I change paper types the display will change but the info display still shows the original paper that was selected. Not a big deal, because I can look at the panel and see what paper is being used. This is on my Windows 7 desktop with 8 GB RAM.

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Soft proofing: how to A/B?

Hi all,
I'm kinda new to soft proofing, so maybe this is a silly question, but here goes:
My workflow for printing is that i first tweak my photos so they look like how i want them on my computer monitor, for uploading to Flickr.
After that i choose the one(s) i want to print (Epson 3880) and go into "soft proofing" mode.
After i've tweaked the photo to compensate for the print, i want to A/B with my original. What i've noticed is that i need to generally add a bit more brightness and vibrance to approach (on physical paper) what i see on my computer screen, so i want to be able to A/B between my original photo and the proof copy.
But the thing is, when i do this the "soft proofing" module remains engaged for both my proof copy (that's ok) and for my original photo (not ok!) which was tweaked to look good on the computer and never meant to be printed, and on which i never did any soft proofing!!!
This makes it really hard to A/B between the two copies.
So why doesn't the soft proofing module automatically turn off when you switch to another photo on which you haven't done any soft proofing?
Hmmm, clear as mud methinks!
But does anyone see what i mean and could offer any tips?
Thanks! ......... D

Daz V wrote:
So why doesn't the soft proofing module automatically turn off when you switch to another photo on which you haven't done any soft proofing?
Soft Proofing "simulates" on your computer display (transmissive) what the print copy (reflective) will look like in your hands. The two are radically different in contrast ratio, black level, and white level achievable, so it makes little sense to try and compare the two. They will always look quite different. The goal is to adjust web based images so they look good onscreen, and print based images with 'Soft Proof' so they look good in the actual reflective light viewed print copy. What are you trying to achieve?
You can view them side-by-side by windowing LR and your browser and viewing the image in both at the same time. In fact that would be much close to reality, since browsers aren't always properly color managed. Two separate displays would be even better for this purpose.

Bug: Previews not generated properly when Soft Proofing is enabled in LR5, LR5.2 RC

I am experiencing problems with previews in Lightroom 5.0 and Lightroom 5.2 RC.
I have noticed incorrect previews under the following circumstances when Soft Proofing is enabled:
1. When I make modifications (like cropping), the preview in the Navigator panel does not update until I uncheck (and recheck) the Soft Proofing option.
2. When I am paging through several images at 100% or greater, the view in the main window, while zoomed in correctly, does not provide the correct resolution (blurry) until I either uncheck (and recheck) the Soft Proofing option or zoom out and zoom back in.
I am using:
Lightroom 5.0 64-bit, Lightroom 5.2 RC 64-bit
Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
Canon CR2 RAW files
16GB RAM, plenty of local disk space
Note: I have not done extensive testing on this, but many of these files are stored on a network drive, so I don't know if there is some sort of bug in the optimized routines for network drives/folders.

I have the same problem as michaeln2 and adobe 1230931.
I use Lightroom 4.4.
When I am in the Develop screen and I turn on Soft Proofing, then about 20% of the time the image goes blank. If I go back to Library view and reenter Devleop, sometimes the image will show up, sometimes not. If I advance to other images, sometimes they'll show and sometimes not in the Soft Proofing mode. Sometimes rotating an image in Library mode and going back into Develop "wakes up" the Soft Proofing and sometimes not.
In other words, the soft proofing feature is, as michaeln2 says, functionally useless. I'm surprised that no fix has been posted on this thread. No point upgrading to Ver 5 either...as it seems to be buggy there as well. Help!

Photoshop CC quits when setting up soft proof for Moab Slickrock paper

I use a Mac Pro with Mountain Lion and Photoshop CC, all with current updates. I had no problem downloading and using the Moab Slickrock icc profile from their website to make a test print. When I try to set up soft proofing, view-proof setup-custom, and choose Slickrock as the device to simulate, Photoshop quits suddenly. I tried it multiple times, restarted the computer, restarted Photoshop, removed and re-installed the profile all to no avail. I then installed the profile for Moab Lasal, and was able to set up soft proofing for Lasal with no problem. I can set up Slickrock with my copy of Photoshop CS6 with no problem and also with Lightroom 5.3 it will soft proof. I wrote to Moab and they said it was a known bug with no current solution.
Do you have any idea what is going on?
Soft proofing is not critical, but I do like to use it when I can.
Eric Brody

I am having this issue as well. I tried lightroom, but the soft proof is buggy there - it's a known bug I saw written up on MOAB's page. Supposedly Photoshop CS5 worked OK softproofing with this profile, but evidently, CC does not.

Colors in print preview not matching colors in soft proofing

Hi There,
Just wanted to print a new photo and realized that the colors in print preview do not match the colors in soft proofing. In both cases I selected the same icc profile and rendering method. The print colors matched the colors in print preview. I never had a problem so far. All new prints will be checked with soft proofing and adjusted when necessary. I never paid attention to the color rendition in print preview and all prints perfectly matched the colors from the soft proofing. I was surprised when my print came out of the printer and the colors weren't matching the soft proofing colors, but that of the print preview.
I don't understand why Photoshop renders the colors differently in the first place. Please see attached screenshot for the difference in the blue/cyan colors.
I would appreciate if anybody could point me in the right direction in what is causing this difference. I don't care if the print view colors will match the print, but I do care when soft proofing is not working.
Thank you.
Best regards,
D.

Here are some addtional details:
PS 13.1.2
Mac OS X 10.8.4
12 GB Ram
60 GB free disk space
I printed the same photo from two other computers (MacBook and iMac) with different PS versions (CS4 and CS5). The prints turned out identical to the first one which matches the print preview color rendition on my main computer (MacPro) running CS6. Strangely the colors in print preview of CS5 on the iMac renders the colors identical to the soft proofing colors.

Printing, Soft Proofing & Color Management in LR 1.2: Two Questions

Printing, Soft Proofing, and Color Management in LR 1.2: Two Questions
There are 2 common ways to set color management in Adobe CS2:
1. use managed by printer setting or,
2. use managed by Adobe CS2 program.
I want to ask how Color Management for Adobe LR 1.2 differs from that in CS2?
As is well known, Color Management by printer requires accurate printer profiles including specific model printer, types of ink and specific paper. It is clear that this seems to work well for LR 1.2 when using the Printer module.
Now lets consider what happens one tries to use Color Management by Adobe LR 1.2. Again, as is well known, Color Management by printer must be turned off so that only one Color Management system is used. It has been my experience that LR 1.2 cant Color Manage my images correctly. Perhaps someone with more experience can state whether this is true or what I might be doing to invalidate LR 1.2 Color Management.
Specifically, I cant use Soft Proofing to see how my images are changed on my monitor when I try to use the edit functions in LR 1.2. Martin Evening states in his text, The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Book that it is not possible to display the results of the rendered choices (Perceptual or Relative) on the display monitor. While it is not clear in Evenings text if this applies to LR 1.2, my experience would suggest that it still applies to the 1.2 update even though the publication date of his book preceded this update.
Can someone with specific knowledge of Adobe LR 1.2 confirm that Color Management and Soft Proofing with LR 1.2 hasnt been implemented at the present.
The writer is a retired physicist with experience in laser physics and quantum optics.
Thanks,
Hersch Pilloff

Hersch,
since just like me, you're a physicist (I am just a little further from retirement ;) ) I'll explain a little further. computer screens (whether they are CRT or LCD) are based on emission (or transmission) of three colors of light in specific (but different for every screen) shades of red, green, and blue. This light stimulates the receptors in your eye which are sensitive to certain but different bands of red, green and blue as the display emits, making your brain think it sees a certain color instead of a mix of red green and blue. Printers however, produce color by modifying the reflection of the paper by absorbing light. Their color mixing operates completely differently than displays. When you throw all colors of ink on the paper, you get black (the mixing is said to be subtractive) instead of white as you get in displays (the mixing there is additive). The consequence of this is that in the absence of an infinite number of inks you cannot produce all the colors you can display on a monitor using a printer and vice versa. This can be easily seen if you compare a display's profile to a printer profile in a program such as Colorsync utility (on every mac) or
Gamut vision. Typically printers cannot reproduce a very large region in the blue but most displays on the other hand cannot make saturated yellows and cyans.
Here is a flattened XY diagram of a few color spaces and a typical printer profile to illustrate this. Most displays are close to sRGB, but some expensive ones are close to adobeRGB, making the possible difference between print and screen even worse.
So, when the conversion to the printer's profile is made from your source file (which in Lightroom is in a variant of prophotoRGB), for a lot of colors, the color management routine in the computer software has to make an approximation (the choice of perceptual and relative colorimetric determine what sort of approximation is made). Soft proofing allows you to see the result of this approximation and to correct specific problems with it.

Soft proofing in LR 4

I purchsed and downloaded LR 4 online. In the Develop Modue when I want to soft-proof. I press 'S' to get the soft proof menu but do not have the soft-proof box under the image that I see in ALL the examples when going through tutorials. I tried closing LR and restarting computer, doesn't help.

Hit the T key to toggle showing/hiding the toolbar...

Strange sRGB soft-proofing behavior

I am wondering if the CMS gurus might have an idea about this:
I am using Photoshop CC, but had a similar experience with the previous version and on a different machine.
I have a wide gamut NEC monitor which has been profiled using i1 Display. The generated profile is selected in Windows as default profile. Everything seems OK with this side of things.
So I have a bitmap file with sRGB embedded profile, and my working space is sRGB. Colour appears correct in 'normal' editing view, i.e. PS is already adjusting what it is sending to the monitor based on the fact that it is an sRGB image. To confirm, I can look at the same graphic in Firefox with CMS switched on, and it looks the same as in Photoshop. And it looks "correct". Furthermore, if I soft-proof to "Monitor", what I see makes sense too. (Overly vibrant colours). And that's also visually consistent with looking at it in Firefox with CMS switched off.
So far so good. The fun begins when I ask PS to softproof the image to sRGB. Now, you might ask what would be the point of that, since in theory I'm already looking at it being rendered into sRGB colour space. Regardless, what I expect to happen is that soft-proofing to sRGB makes absolutely no difference to what I see. However this is not the case! The on-screen representation changes markedly... not only is it overly saturated but there is a colour shift as well! To make matters more confusing, when I use the Info box to show the raw and the softproof colour values, they are identical, as they should be. So the numbers seem OK, but the on-screen rendering is clearly wrong.
I also see a similar effect if I do a "convert to profile sRGB" with preview switched on. Up until I hit the OK button, the preview rendering is "wrong". Once the conversion completes (which did nothing because it was already in sRGB space) it renders as it did before.
I'm wondering if this is some kind of weird bug that happens when you softproof to the space you're already in?
MT

tozzy wrote:
it's very confusing behavior and leads you to wonder if there are other times when the on-screen CMS rendering behavior can't be trusted.
In my observation there are two forms of color-management implementation, both controlled by Adobe: The first is the traditional Adobe Color Engine as executed by the CPU - this is run if you have the [ ] Enable Graphics Processor setting unchecked or have it checked but are using Basic drawing mode in the Advanced Settings section. Phtotoshop also reverts to this CPU-resident color-management while you are moving a window and when you're using View - Gamut Warning.
The second form is executed by the GPU and is used when in Normal and Advanced drawing modes. This GPU implementation is presumably faster, but is also observably inaccurate under certain specific conditions. For example, if your document is in the ProPhoto RGB color space, it will show subtle color banding in a pure gray gradient.
The GPU-resident color management transforms have also been seen to add multi-value output level jumps, resulting in visible banding, in high bit depth gray gradients, where the CPU-resident code does not.
I reported these inaccuracies to Adobe some time ago, but either the GPU-resident color-management code is inscrutable or they just have other priorities, because the inaccuracies remain.
I just brought all this up, tozzy, since you mention the problem going away when the CPU-resident color-management code is invoked. To retain GPU acceleration for other things, but use CPU color-management, try using Basic drawing mode if you're concerned about getting the most accurate displays from color-management. Remember that you have to close and restart Photoshop after making changes in these settings.
-Noel

[LR 5] Soft Proofing - Monitor Gamut Warning vary with printer profile ?!?!

Hi,
There's something I can't understand when using the soft proofing feature in LR.
The Monitor Gamut Warning feature (top left icon in the histogram when soft proofing is enabled) is supposed to show us what colors in the current image cannot be reproduced on the display. Right ? If I understand well, the warning computation is made by comparing the current image (virtualized by LR in the Melissa RGB color space) to the gamut of the display (read from the active calibration profile).
So why does LR show different "out of gamut" areas for the display when I change the printer profile selected when using soft proofing? This doesn't make sense to me.
Did I miss something?
Thanks in advance.

indeed they are vague about this. My thought about this comes from conversing with Adobe folks here and elsewhere as I am pretty sure I'vce discussed this on the forum before. As far as I know the monitor warning is supposed to be calculated after the conversion to the printer profile so that you get an idea whether the soft proofed color is accurately displayed. That shoud be the correct behavior as proofing can actually take a color either in or out of the monitor gamut. I am not 100% sure on this though but it certainly explains how it behaves.
Also if you calibrate your display and write out a icc v4 display profile, the situation changes again as now the display profile can actually contain a perceptual rendering intent, making it even less precise and the assumption of simple one-to-one linear conversions between color spaces is invalid. Few calibration software packages do this though but there are a few exceptions.
If you only want to know whether your image is outside of the display profile, you can indeed trick the soft proof to allow you to select a display profile as the printer proofing profile. You can in principle select a standard working space such as prophotoRGB there and get results that make sense. But you definitely do not want to have a random printer profile selected for the reasons cited above. I guess they could add some smartness to detect that you selected the profile of the current display and not a profile of another random display and then collapse the interface but that is such an edge case that I doubt Adobe would prioritize this. It works fine if you simply realize that you selected your monitor profile as the printer proof profile.

Soft Proofing in Aperture vs Others

I posted this in another thread, but didn't get a reply so I thought I'd try another Subject title. Sorry.
Someone was having a problem with Aperture to Photoshop using CYMK. I'm having the same problem Adobe RGB images. I use Gretag/Macbeth to calibrate my monitor. When I proof in Aperture, the result is VERY desaturated compared with the soft proofs in Photoshop (direct from Aperture), C1, and Canon DPP. The others all soft proof identically. I haven't had a chance to print anything yet from Aperture, but I know my onscreen versions are very accurate compared to my printed output when using the other programs. If I leave Aperture proofing off and proofing off in the other programs, then the screen versions are pretty close. But I really would like to use proofing. Anybody else found this problem and worked it out? Thanks.

Ian,
AFAIK, profiles should be computed using the specific printer, inks, and paper—you don't apply the paper type afterward. I use an online print lab and have separate profiles for different printer types.
Cheers,
Andreas

Soft proofing to sRGB not working as expected

I've gone through three customer reps via chat on this, and none of them had a clue.
I recently discovered the soft proofing capability in Lightroom 4, and watched an Adobe video about it. Looked pretty cool. I experimented with soft-proofing for printing to an Epson Artisan printer. I'd always struggled a little bit with prints being too dark, etc., but now I was able to produce the best prints I've ever had.
But then I started to experiment with soft proofing for sRGB. My photo club takes photo submissions as sRGB, and they then show them on a monitor during meetings. Sometimes they don't look so good. So, I figured soft-proofing them first would help correct that.
So, I've got a photo that has a lot of red in it (a flower). The soft proofing indicated pretty much all of the reds were out of gamut. I tried reducing the saturation, but they had to go pretty much completely desaturated (black and white) before Lightroom said they were in gamut. I also experimented with change the hue, but still no luck.
I then deleted the soft proof virtual copy, and just exported the original as sRGB. Looked fine.
This would seem to make the soft proofing to sRGB to be somewhat useless for me (at least for reds - seemed okay for the small number of other photos I experimented with that didn't have that much red).
Just wondering if anyone else has had issues with this, or if I'm doing anything incorrectly, etc.
Thanks!
P.S. Update... Last chat rep had me try something that seemed to work better. My photos are stored in Lightroom as JPGs with a color space of RGB and a color profile of ProPhoto RGB. If I export that photo to JPG / sRGB, then re-import it into Lightroom, and then do the soft proofing again, it works much better. The downside of this that the two-step process makes it a bit unusable for me.

> if I'm doing anything incorrectly,
You should not really try to do the bringing of the colors into gamut too much. I know the videos you see online show this but it is really counterproductive in many cases. You'll often completely desaturate or get really disagreeable hue shifts if you trust the out of gamut warnings as you have noticed. What you should do is turn on the softproof and check whether your image looks good and the colors don't shift too much. If they do or you lose essential detail, try to correct it using the HSL tools or local desaturation. The out of gamut warning is more useful when you are proofing to a printer profile and you might have colors that your display cannot show but your printer can print. For sRGB, not so much in my experience.
> Last chat rep had me try something that seemed to work better. My photos are stored in Lightroom as JPGs with a color space of RGB and a color profile of ProPhoto RGB. If I export that photo to JPG / sRGB, then re-import it into Lightroom, and then do the soft proofing again, it works much better
That's a silly answer that rep gave you. What happens when you export to sRGB is that all your colors will get truncated hard(it uses a relative coloremtric conversion) to the sRGB profile, so if there was detail there that you wish to preserve you just lost it and you won't be able to get it back. Of course if you then soft proof the sRGB jpeg to sRGB, you will have an easy time conforming it to sRGB, since it already is! The out of gamut warning it might show you on sRGB jpegs without any correction is not correct - a known bug or strangeness with how Lightroom handles these and just tiny touches on the sliders will make them disappear. It is fooling you and in fact you were better off not even trying to soft proof and simply exporting to sRGB and ignoring soft proofing.
P.S. the monitor problems you have noticed in your photo club are probably more an issue of the monitor not being calibrated and probably not using a color managed application to show the images. If your monitor is calibrated and that one is too and using a color managed app to show the images should give you very good correspondance in color between your monitor and that one regardless of what color space you choose for the images. That might perhaps be a good thing for the club. You really need to be calibrating monitors and use only color managed apps for display.

Soft Proofing with Adobe RGB

I am experimenting with soft proofing various sunset images. The problem I'm seeing when I soft proof the images in Photoshop using the Adobe RGB profile is that the oranges and magentas in the sunset turn yellowish. Can someone please explain why this is happening. I admit that some of these images are coming from the internet and have no embedded profile. I have always thought that the Adobe RGB profile had a larger color space so I'm not sure why I'm getting the obvious changes in the sunset colors when switching between sRGB and Adobe RGB.

With a standard monitor everything you see on screen is already soft proofed to sRGB. That's all it can reproduce. So soft proofing to Adobe RGB makes no sense. It's beyond the monitor's capabilities.
Even if you have a wide gamut monitor soft proofing to Adobe RGB makes no sense. You'd need a monitor that reproduced considerably more than Adobe RGB (which doesn't exist), and a file in an even larger space such as ProPhoto.
If you see a difference, you have "Preserve RGB numbers" checked in Proof Setup (which you normally shouldn't). This is the proof equivalent of Assign Profile - IOW how it will look if you assign Adobe RGB as opposed to Convert to Profile, which is what you normally do and which will preserve color appearance.
The other possible explanation is a rather evasive bug in Photoshop, reported from time to time. Sometimes people see a color shift when converting to the very same profile as the file already is. I can't reproduce that, so I can't give any more details.

Soft Proofing CS3 and OS X 10.5.2

Issue: Printing with calibrated Artisan Monitor, Epson 4000, Epson Driver version 3.09 results in light magenta proof image but apparently correct image when printed. Hardware platform: Mac pro dual 2.8GH Xeon, 16G memory, 15k sas boot and identical scratch drive.
Printing with application controlled settings (CS3), setting printer to paper profile (Premium Luster), soft proofing on monitor, disabling color management in print dialogue, preview image looks light with magenta cast (as it always did in windows CS3 with Epson preview) but print usually matches soft proof. When I set printer profile (in the CS3 print window)to Adobe RGB or generic RGB, the preview image looks like soft proof, but print very dark. I am totally new to Mac OS, long time XP user, so don't understand much about colorsync, etc.
Is this a photoshop bug, problem in OS X 10.52 or something else?
I also downloaded Colorburst Rip demo and it prints fine, but I much prefer to use native printer driver to save money as planning to upgrade printer.

All the monitor is doing in Photoshop is faithfully PROOFING the Source File (through a Source Profile-to-MonitorRGB Conversion).
"Soft Proof" here usually means Photoshop> View> Proof SetUp> Custom: specific target ICC Profile
Epson Print Preview is not color managed (use it for layout only).
WHY on earth "set printer profile (in the CS3 print window)to Adobe RGB or generic RGB"?
Printer Profile should be set to Specific Printer/Paper/Ink ICC profile...
http://www.gballard.net/psd/printing_Epson_Photoshop_cs3.html
All the printer is doing is PROOFING the Source File (through a Source Profile-to-Printer Profile Conversion).
If your printed PROOF is off, it is either a bad printer profile or bad settings (assuming your monitor is good and you are basing your judgment on the monitor)...

I use lightroom with the soft proofing feature for my printing. I used to make a copy proof, but all of the sudden something changed, and even if I'm on the copy in the developing mode it prints the original. Also, If i chose a file that was already in li

I use lightroom with the soft proofing feature for my printing. I used to make a copy proof, but all of the sudden something changed, and even if I'm on the copy in the developing mode it prints the original. Also, If i chose a file that was already in light room to print, even though I have the chosen file up in the developing mode, it will instead print the most recent file that I added to lightroom. If found a way to work around these problems, (check make this the copy in the soft proofing, and copy my settings and delete and reload the old files) but it's a slight hassle and it didn't use to do this. Not sure why it changed. Could I have accidentally changed a setting?

See
iOS: Device not recognized in iTunes for Windows
- I would start with
Removing and Reinstalling iTunes, QuickTime, and other software components for Windows XP
or
Removing and reinstalling iTunes and other software components for Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8
However, after your remove the Apple software components also remove the iCloud Control Panel via Windows Programs and Features app in the Window Control Panel. Then reinstall all the Apple software components
- Then do the other actions of:
iOS: Device not recognized in iTunes for Windows
paying special attention to item #5
- New cable and different USB port
- Run this and see if the results help with determine the cause
iTunes for Windows: Device Sync Tests
Also see:
iPod not recognised by windows iTunes
Troubleshooting issues with iTunes for Windows updates
- Try on another computer to help determine if computer or iPod problem

Soft Proofing in Aperture 2

Am I missing something, there doesn't seem to any option to simulate paper colour whilst soft proofing in Aperture 2. If it doesn't do this I still need to go into Photoshop to soft proof properly?
Thanks
Ian

Ian,
AFAIK, profiles should be computed using the specific printer, inks, and paper—you don't apply the paper type afterward. I use an online print lab and have separate profiles for different printer types.
Cheers,
Andreas

Soft proofing bug on my computer

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