Sony Handycam 60p frame rate

I want to buy a cheap consumer Sony Handycam (~$300). It says it captures at 60p (1980 x 1080) as opposed to 60i in most other models. Do you know if Premiere Pro CS6 can import/edit natively 60p footage (or do I need some type of conversion?).
I heard 60p was going to be the new standard? Any thoughts on the benefits/drawbacks and compatibility of 60p?
Thanks.

Like Jim correctly stated it will not likely ever be a new standard for any broadcast stations(anytime soon). Here is the main reason why. In OTA TV broadcast each channel gets 19.39Mbps of bandwidth. Several broadcast networks currently have mutliple sub channels on the same channel (Including where I work).
When you're dealing with 1080i/29.97 you have to have your bitrate set around at least 11Mbps to achieve a decent looking result (even with stat muxing unless the picture is really static), with the way encoders in the brodcast world currently work. Then if you add in trying to also fit two sub-channels that are SD you're basically almost at your MAX bandwidth. Basically if you attempted to broadcast 1080p/60 you'd have to use more bandwidth than what is allotted to achieve even a decent looking picture. So the way things look right now, I would say its highly unlikely to see anyone in the broadcast world broadcasting at 1080p/60 as long the current 19.39Mbps limit is in place for OTA TV in the USA.
To answer your other question though Premiere pro cs6 can indeed handle 1080p/60 footage without any conversion needed. You just need to have a system that meets adobe's spec requirements.

Similar Messages

60P (Frame Rate: 59.94) No Audio

When I import into premiere AVCHD files (.m2ts) that are recorded at 60P with my Sony ea50uh there is no audio. When I "get properties for" the 60P file premiere doesn't give any information on the audio. There is audio because I hear it when I play it through my Sony PMB software on my computer.
Here's what the "get properties for" displays:
Type: MPEG Movie
Image Size: 1920 x 1080
Pixel Depth: 32
Frame Rate: 59.94
Average Data Rate: 3.3 MB / second
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
If I record in 24P with this camera premiere has no problems recognizing and importing the audio. Here's the "get properties for" 24P
Type: MPEG Movie
Image Size: 1920 x 1080
Pixel Depth: 32
Frame Rate: 23.976
Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - compressed - Stereo
Project Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 32 bit floating point - Stereo
Average Data Rate: 2.8 MB / second
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
How can I fix premiere to bring in the audio for 60P video?

No, I want premiere to know accept it.
I got into AVCHD back when it first came out. I had to wait for Adobe to catch up, it took about 2 years before I could really edit AVCHD. This is probably just another case of "wait for Adobe to wake up and catch up".
I think if adobe isn't going to fix this issue or there isn't a practical solution the best thing would be for me to figure out how to export the audio from the 60P footage, that should be faster than rewrapping, transcoding it, or changing the frame rates. I don't want to change the frame rates, that defeats the entire purpose for shooting it in 60P, hence my saying in an earlier reply "I want to use it for slow motion, but I want to determine when to use it for slow montion in the editing process. When I shoot an event I don't have time to switch frame rates or even a way to anticipate when I will ultimately want it. So, I'd rather just shoot in 60p if there's a chance." Shooting in 60P and then slowing it down in premiere to 30P when I want slow motion. This presumably will enable me to transition smoothly from normal motion to slow when I want non destructively (I should emphasize presumably because I haven't done this yet, plan to tomorrow:))
So, maybe I just need to export the audio from the clips somehow and then bring that into premiere. Or try and different audio setting in the camera instead of LPCM. However, LPCM isn't a problem in the other with 24P or 30P when set to those in camera...

Guidance on using 60P Frame Rate

Greetings All,
I am fairly experienced, but recently have begun to use 1080, 60P (new camera is Sony NEX7), and
wonder what are the editing pluses and minises in editing 60P into 30P or 24P timelines/projects?
I am working in FCPX on IMac. Yes I have tested workflows with good results, but I still wonder
how to retain the 60P in a 30P project in order to retain the slow motion. My assumption is the
60 frame originals are converted to 30P normally, with some exceptions.
To repeat, at times I want 60 frames and at times I want 30 frames in 30 frames/sec. projects.
The above has been addressed in other people's posts, but I did not completely understand the
explanations.
Thank you, Tom

Thank you, I understand what you say. But how to do it? It being my question. The camera
alows only 60 frames/sec. so I need to learn to use and apply the 60P data in a proper workflow.
To repeat, at times I want 60 frames and at times I want 30 frames in 30 frames/sec. projects.
Thank you for the guidance and interest.
Tom

What is frame rate with 1920x1080/60p?

I'm currently shooting and editing HD 1920x1080/60i (interlaced format, 29.97 frames/sec). To reduce motion artifacts, I'm considering a change in my workflow to HD 1920x1080/60p (progressive format), but first I must update my understanding of this newer format. Question 1: What is the frame rate for this format, 30 or 60 frames/sec? If the answer is 30 frames/sec, why is it called 60p? Question 2: How many complete scans (combining odd and even lines) are produced per frame? Question 3: Would a Master File exported from Final Cut Pro X (by default, a QuickTime movie file) be progressive or interlaced? Question 4: Would iDVD v.08 accept a progressive movie file for making standard DVDs?
Your answers to these questions are very much appreciated.

Thank you, Tom Wolsky and Karsten Schlüter, for your fast replies!
Tom, regarding my Question 4: Are you sure that the latest version of iDVD can accept progressive 1920x1080 QuickTime movie files at 59.94 frames/sec? As you may know, iDVD is no longer supported by Apple, and their Technical Support is unable to answer my question. I respect your experience in this area and would like you to advise me in my proposed switch to a progressive workflow. I can't afford to shoot in a format that will not allow me to make standard DVDs.
Best regards from Interlacer.

Best frame rates for 4 different cameras in multicam

Well, I've been flopping around in different threads on this forum, but I think the question is beginning to finally take shape for me. Basically it's all about deciding on frame rates for four different cameras I will be using to shoot a 6-day intensive course I will be teaching. The video will be primarily for computer viewing (YouTube, Quicktime movies). Here are the cameras:
2 new Canon cameras capable of frame rates of 60i, 30 frames per second progressive "recorded as 60i", and 24 frames per second progressive also "recorded as 60i" (there is a known issue with importing the 30 frames per second into fcpx, as fcpx does not recognize this as progressive, but ClipWrap can get around this).
1 Sony capable of 60i, 60P, and 24P
1 Sanyo capable of 60i and 30P
Possible settings:
Just do all at 60i, but people say this is not so good for computer viewing
Canon at 30 fps (using ClipWrap to see it gets recognized as progressive), and the Sony and Sanyo at 60i. Will this cause syncing or other problems, mixing frame rates like this? How bad a hit in quality is 60i on computer screens?
Canon and Sanyo at 30 fps, Sony at 60i
Same as #3, but use JES Deinterlacer to get Sony 60i to 30 fps.(I tried this out, by the way, and the resulting frame rate, after deinterlacing, showed up in the inspector window at 30, not 29.97. Is that a problem?
Anyway, I aplogogize for wearing out my welcome on this forum, and I thank everyone for creating such a wonderful bank of information.

Not sure what you're trying to achieve here - for the best overall quality, if possible, choose a frame rate that all the cameras can achieve. That way you won't lose quality in the conversion.
If you're not satisfied with that, you need to do some tests to see which gives you the effect you like best. Nobody here can help you really - it's up to you.
Andy

2 questions - one about Frame Rates, the other about Rendering

These are two areas I need to learn more about.
Any answers to my 2 specific questions below would be appreciated, but also, I need to gain a deeper understanding of these 2 areas, so if you have any recommendations on how/where to learn more, I'd appreciate that, as well.
1. I'm trying to copy a tape from an older 8mm Sony Handycam to my Canon XL-1 mini-DV, in order to be able to import the footage into FCP, however, it comes out all messed up, skipping and jumping in a way that makes me think the frame rate of the two cameras is not in sync. I don't know of a way to change, or even to confirm, the frame rate of either one of these cameras and have found nothing online. Yet, I was able to successfully copy a tape a few years ago, with the same equipment I'm using now, so I'm thinking maybe the frame rate was changed on one of these??? I don't know.
2. I've never really understood rendering - why some clips require it while others do not. The latest example was with footage from my Canon and a different (newer) Sony DCR-SR68. Because the format of this Sony is wider than that of the Canon, I shot it knowing that I'd be cropping off some of the left and right of the frame. So, in FCP, when I click and drag the corner of the wireframe in the canvas to make the Sony footage fill the square, it needs to be rendered in the Timeline. However, if I do the same with the Canon footage, it does not require rendering. I'm trying to understand why. If it makes a difference, the Canon footage was imported directly from the camera, whereas the Sony footage needed to be first imported into iMovie and saved as an MPEG before being imported into FCP.
Thanks a lot.
J

Hi Mr. Chappell,
Many older tapes have sat on shelves etc. for many years, It is
a good idea to,
First make sure your 8mm is mechanically sound, throw in a blank or
unimportant tape and make sure it will play etc. without causing any
phisical damage to the tape.
Then put in a tape to transfer and Fast forward to the end and then rewind
to the begginning, this will re-pack/tension the tape.
then play the tape back briefly while looking thru the viewfinder or monitoring
with a tv, hopefully all looks well.
then connect and transfer to the mini-dv (best to use a tbc, but should work
without)then playback the DV tape briefly, again, with either viewfinder or TV,
if all looks good you should have no problems unless they are related
to capture settings (they should match the DV cameras video and audio sampling
rate, check for 32K).
Hope this helps,
J>H<L

Ingesting 1080p60/, 1080i60 (or 1080p24) frame rates?

Hello,
I just received a new Sony PJ-790V Handy Cam. Newest tech from Sony. That said, I have FCP7, and other than moving to FCP X (unsure if there is an advantage to doing so), my scenario for your good selves is to be initially based on FCP7 please...
This camera shoots AVCHD 1920x1080, in frame rates of 60P, 60I and 24P. The first two is where I'm confused.....
Have not yet filmed much since opening the box yesterday, but it is my understanding that FCP 7 may not want to play nice (after ingesting with Log and Transfer) if using 108060P. I have no opinion (it's why I'm writing here...) if my 2 ultimate end products desired will work/look best as a P or I.
>> End product 1: Day for day end use- 1920x1080 H264 10-15mbps (after QuickTime or Compressor) movies played on my HDTV. The tv is capable of both 1080P and 1080I.
>> End product 2: Archived original movie (mastered from FCP 7 editing, exported as QT movie, Pro Res LT).
Sorry to get so wordy here- truly.
1) What will FCP 7 ingest and work with?
2) Is there an advantage to be gained by making the move to FCP X?
Respectfully,
Bob

Bob,
If you are curious about recording in 24p, you'll want to read up on the concept of the film panning.
Because you are recording at a 20% lower frame rate (24 vs 30) if you have much movement within the frame, the displacement of each element will be significantly greater. The result of high intraframe motion is a slightly staccato rhythm. Some like it and some find it induces epileptic fits.
There are ways to smooth it out. They generally require the ability to control shutter speed and/or employing a very deliberate panning motion. If you are working with a consumer cam, the first item is usually not in your control so you do need to understand how quickly you can move the cam for best results.
Best,
x
edit: fwiw if the material is low motion, I always record at 24p for a couple of reasons -
1. The file sizes are 20% smaller for a given period. This means I get that much more capacity/ recording time out of the card(s).
2. When converting to a steady data rate for playback, I have 20% more pixel information for each frame which means a higher quality playback.
also, If I'm recording action/ sports and the like, I'll usually record 60p. This gives me the option of time remapping (slo-mo). If I decide the material will work best as regular speed (i.e. not slowdown), I'll just convert it to 30p when ingesting it before editing.

Are different frame rate clips automatically conformed to that of the project?

I have a 25p project and have dropped in some clips shot at 30p.
I thought I would have to conform those clips to play at 25p but they appear to be doing that already and to my surprise there is no orange render line above them.
Is this correct and if so, would any other frame rates (50p or 60p etc.) be conformed to 25fps with no rendering required?

YYes, clips conform to the project frame rate.

How can I use two sequences w/ different frame rates

I shot wedding (on Sony Z5) initially (1st tape) in DV widescreen (29.97/ 30 fps) but tapes 2, 3 & 4 were shot 1080p24 fps Big mistake; now obvious.
Edited all in FCP 6. On trying to cut & paste sequences together I get " cannot nest sequences with different editing timebases".
I have 23 min.intro/ ceremony sequence as stand alone QT mov now. How can I best convert that and/or merge it w/ the rest ( 62 min. 24 fps sequences), or perform other action to unite the diff frame rates into one, w/ best looking quality for the DVD/ bride & groom? Trying to beat Xmas deadline...
Thanks in advance! Happy Holidays to all.
3 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo / 8 GB / OS 10.6.8 FCP 6.0.6

I went back and forth on this.
Ordinarily, I'd conform to the format that the majority of the footage was shot in. But if you're going to DVD, and it's going to be compressed to 480 anyway, then why not down convert the 1080 footage to 480?. At the same time, I would imagine re-timing the 24 (23.98?) to 29.97 would look reasonably consistent with the 29.97 SD.
This could be done in FCP, but I think Compressor will produce a better result. The adjustments you need are in the Settings menu in the Encoder (with Audio set to pass through), Geometry (720x480 16:9 Anamorphic), and Frame Controls (Resize Filter set to Best).
This will not be a short encode, so I would first test a short section to double check your settings and sound sync are right, and to compare against the quality of tape 1.
Good luck.
Russ

How do I output the smoothest video when changing or mixing frame rates from the original footage?

I have been experimenting with various Media Encoder settings, and wondered if there was anything else I can try to get the smoothest video output possible, especially when changing frame rate and possibly resolution. For clarification, let me start from the beginning and explain what I'm doing and what I've tried so far. I'll try to be as brief as possible, but if I do go into too much detail, I apologize.
My original footage is AVCHD 1080p - 60fps. (my camera only does 60fps...specifically 59.94fps) We're not talking interlaced video here, I'm staying away from that. This is definitely full frame, progressive video at 60 frames (not fields) per second. My output will ultimately be for the web. I have been keeping my output codec (H.264) and bit-rate (VBR 2-pass, relatively high-bitrate) consistent, and have been trying numerous output options and even sequence settings to see what would yield the best results. I am using Premiere Pro CS5.5 along with Media Encoder. Here's what I've done and the results I've observed:
1. I created a sequence with 1080p - 59.94fps settings to match my original footage. I then output both 1080p and 720p versions at 59.94fps, and at 29.97fps. The 59.94fps output files looked absolutely great, as would be expected. Extremely smooth. The 29.97fps output files were generally smooth, but not near as smooth as the 59.94fps. This is expected since it's half the frame rate as my original footage. However, my question is this: What exactly is Media Encoder doing when "down converting" from 60p to 30p? From a technical stand point, is it dropping every other frame? I'm just curious to understand exactly what it does. I tried the Frame Blending option as well, and that only yielded a bit more blur to the images which wasn't desirable for any of the output files.
2. Just to see what would happen, I created a sequence with 1080p - 29.97 settings. I then output both 1080p and 720p versions at 29.97fps. The video was much more choppy in these cases, even with Frame Blending on. Now, I know not matching my sequence settings with my original media isn't ideal, but I again just want to understand why this yields less smooth video than the 29.97fps options above. Why does cutting the sequence settings frame rate in half from the original, then outputting the same frame rate as the sequence yield video that is not as smooth?
3. Next, I wanted to try mixing frame rates to see how Premiere and Media Encoder handled the footage and output files. Premiere handled it great, no issues there. However, I had some interesting things happen when I output the files. Here's what I did: I created a sequence with 1080p - 59.94fps to match my original footage. Then I took the same exact footage that was in my sequence, copied it in my project panel and interpreted it at both 23.976 and 29.97 fps, yielding slow motion video. The slow motion video looked great in Premiere, so I went ahead and just added it to my sequences, along with the original 59.94 footage. I also created separate sequences for the 29.97 and 23.976 footage respectively, each with matching sequence settings, then added a nested sequence to another original footage sequence (with 59.94fps sequence settings) to see which yielded the best results. Basically, I'm trying to output 59.94fps that match my original footage, but also throw in some slow motion footage at different framerates. I'll explain my results in a moment as they are a bit convoluted, however, here is my question: When mixing frame rates and trying to output the smoothest video, am I going about this the right way? I would assume you would use your sequence settings that match the original footage (which is what the majority of the footage will be), then bring in a nested sequence for the slow motion (as oppose to just dropping the slow motion video directly into my main sequence), and then output to the same frame rate of the majority of the footage, in this case 59.94fps. Is there a better workflow for this?
The results to #3 above were as follows. Initially, it looked like it didn't matter if I nested the slow motion sequence into my main sequence, or simply dropped the actual slow motion video into my original 59.94fps sequence. It seemed to produce smooth results either way. Frame Blending blurred the video a bit, but didn't seem to make much difference, and quite honestly I like the footage without Frame Blending in general. However, when I closed down Premiere, and opened the output files later (opening in Quicktime), the footage looked choppy. In fact, it would go from choppy to smooth and back, almost like it had an irregular cadence (don't know if I'm using "cadence" in the right context here). I would then open up Premiere again, import the output footage into my project panel, and play the footage in Premiere, and it would play back smooth again. Is this a Quicktime issue? I was playing 1080p 59.94fps files when this happened, so maybe it's just because it's a large file. Doesn't seem to have issues with the 720p files I created. But it sure threw me off with my testing because I then started second guessing the settings I was using. My iMac is the latest 2011 model with plenty of RAM, so I wouldn't think it's the computer. Thoughts?
4. Next, I noticed on ALL my output files (again, using the H.264 codec from Media Encoder) that the color of my video seemed to flatten quite a bit. It seems that the original footage has more contrast and saturation than the output files. I figured maybe this was just how it was, but when I re-imported the output files back into Premiere, they looked IDENTICAL to the original footage. And in Media Encoder's Source/Output windows, I don't see any difference there either. Is Quicktime again the culprit here, doing some odd things to the color of my videos?
5. Regarding Frame Blending, when is the best situation to enable this option in Media Encoder? I've read it is when mixing frame rates, but I honestly didn't see too much of a change except for a bit more blur, which I didn't care for.
6. Lastly, my conclusion is that 60fps yields the smoothest video, which is an obvious conclusion. However, I know that 60fps isn't the best or easiet frame rate for web delivery. It seems 30p is more the standard. Are there any integrated web players that would play 60fps? Can you get 60fps video on YouTube/Vimeo? If yes to any of these questions, can they do 720p and 1080p at 60fps?
Those are all my questions. I hope I am clear enough without being overly wordy and hopefully I didn't put too many questions into one post. Thanks in advance for any insight, I really appreciate it.

Did you ever figure out which output worked the best? I have the same original footage; trying to determine the best output settings to make a dvd for tv.
thanks!

Low Frame rate with new Apple TV.

Hi,
I just watched a purchased TV show (Top Gear) on my new Apple TV, connected to a 42" flatscreen, and I am not impressed at all with the quality. Apart from the resolution, which we all now, the image is jittery, and the frame rate is so low that when somebody moves his arm you can wee it jump from one frame to another.
Looked at settings on my TV (Sony Bravia) to see if there is something there, but I don't see any setting that might affect this.
Anyone else has this experience?
Kind Regards,
Erwin

Same issue with a British movie I just tried to stream and I didn't think this would help, but it worked like a charm! Definitely the cinemotion. I didn't even know I had that setting. It's way to the left under picture in my Bravia onscreen menu. Just make sure that you turn it off for the correct input. Im more used to using the motion enhancer toggle under options, but that wasn't it.

Import Video via USB from Sony Handycam HDD

Just purchased Final Cut Express, eager to get to my first project. Plugged in my camera the only way possible (mini usb), my mac mini recognized the camera and I navigated using the import menu.
Finding the *.mpg files that are on my camera's hard drive I selected the ones I wanted and "chose". An error message appeared telling me that these *files were unrecognizable*.
Investigating, I found I could not open them in quicktime player - but could view them just fine using my favorite 3rd party player VLC.
I did a bit of google'ing to find I'm screwed. My research tells me that my camera writes them in a "multiplexed" encoding, which Quicktime can't read even though it's mpeg. One solution that was offered is to loop it through a composite dongle and rerecord all of my footage in real time - but that's not an option for me.
*How can I get my Sony Handicam HDD camera to import into FCE? Is their some free conversion software or drivers?*
Thanks,
Mitch

More frustration. I finished batching my footage for my project, and just as I lay the first scenes on the timeline and tell it to playback, I get this nasty "Unrendered" message in the player. I didn't add any effects or mess with settings, they're the same clips they just previewed for me - but now they're on the timeline where I need to work on them.
I remember reading that FCE's big feature was the whole "Real Time" feature, so I messed with the RT tab to find that it works, kind of, if I kick it into manual mode and cut my frame rate in half. Anything more and it gives me an error message that tells me I need to increase my compression or else switch back to Safe RT. *What and how do I increase compression?*
So is my Mac Mini doomed to be at 50% frames due to the lack of power? *Is it the processing speed, ram, or video card (or all) that's holding me back?*
Mitch

Problem with frame rates

Hi all
I imported HD footage using easy setup and apple intermediate codec i50 (I am in Australia) assuming that was correct. When i exported the sequence to soundtrack it identified the video as being 1920 x 1080 and at 29.97 frames per second. I checked 'item properties' on my clips in the sequence, and they came up as 1440 x 1080 (which acording to my camera specs is correct) but they also identify the frame rate as 29.97.
Is this right? I would have thought the frame rate should have been 25 fps since i used Apple intermediate codec i50 when i captured from tape. I am assuming my Sony A1P would use 25 fps as it is an Australian purchase. SD projects i have shot were all in Dv-PAL. Am a bit concerned as i am about to render and export. Any thoughts or advice much appreciated...

Actually I realised the problem- the footage captured correctly at 25 fps but the sequence itself was set to 29.97fps. So all the stills etc I added are at 29.97 fps- I will try to cut and paste into a new sequence hopefully that works.

Can I import clips using a frame rate of 60 or higher?

I have a sony cx260v that allows me to record in a rate of 60 fps. However when I attempt to upload the footage taken in this frame rate to iMovie 11 9.0.4 it shows as a blocked clip and does not allow me to upload.
Any ideas?

Yes, you can re-import them, but it's not that straightforward, and you loose some quality in the process. Search for "MPEG Streamclip" or "DVD camcorder" in this forum, and you will find lots of answers.
Alternatively, you can make data DVDs with your DV clips. Simply pop in an empty DVD, and drap the DV clips you want to export into the burn folder. A normal DVD can hold about 20 minutes of DV clips, a dual layer DVD twice as much.

SONY Handycam DCR-HC19E, Capable of Passing Digital Analog Signal?

Hi
I wondered if my Sony Handycam DCR - HC19E (miniDV) is capable of sending an analog signal through firewire to my computer as I wish to monitor my progress on my tv.
And:
Should I be on record or play/edit mode on camera?
What to do if I wish to playback my videos on FCP 5?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I don't know what settings on the camera, but this is the playthru checklist:
#8 External Monitor Viewing.
Shane's Stock Answer #8:
A simple path is mac > firewire > camera or deck > rca cables > tv
Then start up your camera and tv, then open fcp.
Then go View > External video > all frames
Video playback should be Apple firewire NTSC (If you are using an NTSC set)
Audio playback should be Audio follows Video
Techinially, this should send synched video to your TV
If for some reason you can't view your timeline on your external monitor, there are a few things to try:
1) Make sure that the camera/deck is connected and powered on BEFORE you open FCP.
2) In the Final Cut Pro menu select AUDIO/VIDEO Preferences and make sure your signal is being sent out thru Firewire DV.
3) Go to the menu and select VIEW>EXTERNAL>ALL FRAMES.
4) Click in the % box above the image and select FIT TO WINDOW.
5) Go to VIEW->refresh A/V devices
6) Make sure the Log & Capture window is closed
If you want it to play in both the canvas and the external monitor you need to go to the FINAL CUT PRO menu and select AUDIO/VIDIO settings and make sure MIRROR ON DESKTOP is selected under the PLAYBACK OUTPUT section
Shane

Sony Handycam 60p frame rate

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