SpDif confusion...

Hi
I'm a little confused - here's my problem.
I have a Bass Pod pro and want to use it for recording bass etc. and I want to re-amp some audio from Logic.
It's would be most convenient if I could select the output of the audio track I wish to re-amp to SpDif-L+R [out from MOTU to bass pod] and simply set the input of a record enabled track (software monitoring on) to SpDif-L+R [In to MOTU from Pod].
This works sometimes but I seem to be getting latency on the actual recording. Is there anything I can do to stop this?
Other times I seem to be getting a nasty loud hiss, usually on one side - any ideas?
Any help would be great as this is giving me a bit of a headache!
Cheers
Del

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    Really need this sorted guys, so please help. Thanks.Message Edited by prankz on 0-22-2006 03:5 PM

    . "Digital audio connection" is a concept - the sound is "transported" in some numeric form between 2 devices.
    2. SPDIF is a particular hardware implementation (interface) of that concept (the most popular one). Was made by Sony and Philips to transport 2 channels of PCM encoded sound (wav files). Maximum bandwidth was enough for 2 audio channels encoded in PCM (uncompressed) at 24 bit/48kHz. Now it was extended to 24 bit/96kHz.
    Phisically is done by a coaxial copper cable (RCA connectors) or via optical cable. The signal is the same in both cases so none is better than other.
    3. Surround sound has more information that stereo so some companies invented a way to compress that 5. surround channels to fit into over the SPDIF connection. The most well known solutions are DolbyDigital and DTS. Those signals although digital need to be "decoded" at the receiving end - the PCM signal can be fed directly to DAC's (so no "decoding" ).
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    Message Edited by SoNic2367 on 0-22-2006 0:44 PM

  • Analog sound out of SPDIF

    Analog sound out of SPDIF' I have connected a digital coax cable from the digital out to a Harman Kardon stereo receiver. The cable has been run to another room in order to watch downloaded shows/movies in my living room.
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    ? I just wanted to what I have experienced based on my digital spdif connection:
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  • Using spdif input into logic to record..

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    But not the standard Fast Track, that doesn't have s/pdif.
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  • How do you Control SPDIF input levels in Logic Pro using Apogee Ensemble

    Hello,
    Question. I have an Apogee Ensemble audio interface hooked up to my Macbook Pro. I have a Motif XS8 that I record audio from through SPDIF.
    I am able to get sound through to my audio track once setting the inputs in Logic, however the levels are not even close to halfway. I can not figure out how to fix adjust the SPDIF level to make it hotter b/c I know once I add virtual tracks and vocals through my preamp, the audio from my motif will likely not be hearable.
    Please let me know.
    Also, when I record an audio track is says about 15 minutes remaining to record. Does that mean I have 15 mins of audio for each track or for all my recording period???

    Not owning an Apogee Ensemble, maybe someone else who does has more definitive info can jump in, but do not confuse the lower level of the SPDIF input with "lesser quality". It's a digital connection, with no analog conversion.
    -18 dBFS on a digital scale is the same as 0dB on an analog scale.
    I think what you're experiencing, is the fact that so many people think they need to get the meters in Logic closer to 0dB, which is actually NOT what you want (when staying ITB). This thinking is left over from the days of analogue recording, or the early days of 16 bit digital recording.
    Turn your other sources in Logic down, and you'll reap the benefits of not overloading the 2 buss, allowing the plug-ins to do their computations without distorting, etc... Then you can bring the over all level of your mix back up, in mastering.
    If the Motif is considerably lower in volume than that, you could always insert a gainer plug-in on the audio track.
    As to the 15 minutes, that is what Logic has pre-allocated for recording to your hard drive. It "re-sets" each time you go into record, so it's not saying "you only have 15 minutes of record time available". It's saying, "you have 15 minutes of hard disk space allocated each time you go into record, based on your sample rate and bit depth settings". This can be changed in the Audio pathway, but it's recommended to leave this number as low as possible/necessary, to avoid disk fragmentation.

  • Analog Levels vs SPDIF Levels Input and Output in Logic Pro

    Hello,
    I ran a test last night for recording input and output levels from my Yamaha Motif XS8 through an Apogee Ensemble to compare Analog to SPDIF
    I connected two TRS cables from the L and R outputs on the Motif XS into the Analog Inputs on the Apogee and also have the SPDIF connection from the Motif to the Apogee.
    I put the master fader all the way up on the XS for the volume for analog.
    The ensemble in Maestro has a +4 and -10 reference notional level option for analog inputs. i had it at +4 but changed to -10 and the analog got louder (i figured it would get louder for +10, confusing).
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    I tracked both options at the same time then recorded vocals over it. the digital sound is too low. what's up with that?
    and when I tried to bounce the recording to listen to it in ITunes, the volume levels were way lower than my cd playing through iTunes. Please enligthen me on these?
    I use to record in a Roland 2480, and had similar results with loudness, but got a little louder through mastering but still....pro cds are way louder and still clear.

    I think there is much confusion here!
    In summary, you wont be able to control the recording level of S/PDIF.
    The reason is that you don't want to!
    You need to think of the SPDIF connection as being more like a file transfer method. You are copying the digital data at an output to your harddrive in effect. If I send you an MP3 via email you'd never imagine that your email software is capable of changing the gain of the MP3 I send you. This might sound daft but its a useful analogy. If you need to increase the "volume" of that MP3 then you'd need to ask the sender. Its the same with your set-up.
    There could well be somewhere on your synth that adjusts the instruments level, other than the master (analogue) output control. For example, make sure the midi volume of the intrument being played is set to full - ie midi vol 128. Perhaps there is somesort of virtual mixer onboard to control all the muti-timbral parts so make sure your part has its virtual fader turned up.
    This is what (basically) is going on in the chain...
    Your synth creates sound in its "digital brain". This sound is sent to an "output stage" which will distribute the sound to various outputs. In the case of the S/PDIF it will just send the raw digital data untouched. For the analogue side the digital signal (same as the one sent to S/PDIF) will be converted to analogue and then sent to a amplifier to get it to an appropriate "line level". This final level could well be controlled by an anogue volume control which could be adding more gain (than you think) too.
    When things go to your sound card/ daw...
    The purpose of a analogue gain control is to set the i/p signal so that it suitably loud to beat any noise that exists in your input circuits - so that a good signal to noise ratio is achieved. Analogue signals need to work in the right loudness zone (so to speak) as the analogue electronics will be designed to handle signal levels of a particular range. the gain control is there to make sure the signal is in that range.
    Digital signals are far more predictable though and there is no advantage to your recordings if the incoming digital signal gets an increase of level at the input stage. All you are doing here is effectively adding a few zeros to the binary digital data!
    Lets face it the point of recording is to get a copy of the original sound, that is as similar to the original as possible. With S/PDIF you get a perfect copy of what's coming out of your synth - so job's a good un!
    If, when you come to mix in logic, you find the level of the digital recording is indeed too low for mixing/mastering purposes then just boost it in logic via a fader or via the gain plugin.
    Those referrence values of -10dBV and +4dBu refer to analogue voltage levels only. they have nothing to do with the digital domain. The -10/+4 switch will be only relevant to analogue inputs and outputs. Using an analogue VU meter you should find that a sine wave that peaks at 0dBVU (totally different to 0dBFS BTW) is the equivant of a digital sine wave peaking at -18dBFS.
    The analogue headroom (how loud you can go before things distort) depends on the analogue electronics and varies with different design. Analogue stuff, like mixers) often has headroom of 24dB or more. So that digital stuff can interface with analogue properly we allow for that analogue headroom to be around 18dB (usually enough in practise!)... hence -18dBFS(digital)=0dBVU(analogue).
    To make your digital and analogue input signals sound similar in level you will probably have to reduce the gain of the analogue input. If you set the incoming analogue signal to peak around -14dB (or less!) or so you will probably find things more equal. If you are working in 24 bit your analogue levels can be seemingly very low before sound quality is affected. Its quite safe to record at -20 or even -30dB as shown on logic's meters for eg.
    I hope all this waffle helps LOL!

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    I think you need to use Alchemy to sort of "convert" the game to recognise it.
    The way sound is created in Vista is very different to how it was in XP and so older applications don't check the correct way to find it in Vista.
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  • [SOLVED] Please help me with my asound.conf (2 soundcards/spdif)

    well, i have an ESI juli@ card, that i want as my playback card and an intel onboard card which i want for the microphone part.
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    null
    Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)
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    iec958:CARD=Intel,DEV=0
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    My momentary (not working) asound.conf looks like this:
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    type plug
    slave.pcm {
    type dmix
    ipc_key 1478
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    pcm "hw:0,0"
    format S32_LE
    period_time 0
    period_size 1024 #useful if you ear scratch or have a crappy sound (try other values if it doesn't work)
    buffer_size 8192 #useful if you ear scratch or have a crappy sound (try other values if it doesn't work)
    rate 44100 #set to 44100 or other.
    pcm.usb
    type hw
    card Intel
    pcm.!default
    type asym
    playback.pcm
    type plug
    slave.pcm "dmix"
    capture.pcm
    type plug
    slave.pcm "usb"
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    Anyone can help me?
    Last edited by Rasi (2011-09-05 20:13:40)

    That Juli@ card looks good! I really like how it "flips"... never seen that before.
    Now to the problem(s). ALSA configuration is confusing, complex, and poorly documented. So I'm not too surprised you're having problems. I guess we should just be thankful that there's at least some documentation.
    I think there should only be a maximum of one "pcm.!default" object and a maximum of one "ctl.!default" object in a configuration. Otherwise, which one is the default?
    The microphone part seems to work just fine, but i cant manage to get the spdif device as default.
    Confusion. Are you saying that you can't get the Juli@ card to be the default for playback, or you can't get the spdif ports on the Juli@ card to be the default for playback?
    As a learning exercise for me, I took on your challenge by trying to get something similar to work on my box. It has an internal Intel HDA audio chip, and an external USB webcam (for the microphone part)... as shown here:
    $ cat /proc/asound/cards
    0 [Intel          ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel
                          HDA Intel at 0x502c0000 irq 44
    1 [J              ]: USB-Audio - A4 TECH USB2.0 PC Camera J
                          A4 TECH A4 TECH USB2.0 PC Camera J at usb-0000:00:1d.7-4, high speed
    Card 0 has the name "Intel" and the webcam on card 1 has the name "J".
    And here are the devices on those cards:
    $ cat /proc/asound/pcm
    00-00: ALC662 rev1 Analog : ALC662 rev1 Analog : playback 1 : capture 1
    00-01: ALC662 rev1 Digital : ALC662 rev1 Digital : playback 1
    01-00: USB Audio : USB Audio : capture 1
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    http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/al … ugins.html
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    capture.pcm { ### Capture object ###
    type plug # convert audio format from the hardware
    slave {
    pcm {
    type hw # define the capture hardware
    card "J" # capture card name
    device 0 # capture device on that card
    Obviously, you'd need to change the card names ("Intel" and "J" in my case), and the "device" numbers, to what's on your box. Along with anything else that fits what you are trying to accomplish. Including adding and deleting things; but perhaps you can use it as a starting "template". But it's well worth it to read those two confusing web pages at least 4 or 5 times.
    OBTW: Not sure if you plan on doing any "professional" type of audio work with that Juli@ card, but be aware that when you use the "plug" and/or "dmix" plugins (among others), that ALSA may dither/resample/mix your audio in software before sending it to/from the audio hardware device. So the audio format you think you're using may not be what's actually being used.
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  • Confused: RS480M2-IL outputs on emachine T6212

    Hello,
    I'm looking into buying the emachines T6212 because it's a very cheap way to start a RS480M2-IL based PC.
    I am confused about the RS480M2-IL motherboard options available on the emachines.
    Various specifications for the RS480M2-IL differ in the inclusion of the S-video, composite video, and SPDIF out outputs.
    The MSI site lists the S- and composite video outputs, but not the SPDIF out, and none show up on the motherboard picture
    The egghead site lists video outputs and SPDIF outputs and include them on the motherboard picture
    The emachines T6212 site does not list the video or SPDIF outputs and does not show them on the rear case picture.
    Are these all different variants of the RS480M2-IL board? If so, my main question is whether there are at least SPDIF out header
    pins on the emachines version of the motherboard?
    Ideally I'd like to hear from a T6212 owner.
    Thanks,
    Colin

    Quote
    danno: You are saying you have a version of the board with no s-video or spdif? Is it the "non-video" version? If not, then I think it's safe to say there is a variant with integrated video and no s-video/spdif out.
    No, I've got the version with the s-video and spdif ports on the rear, just like the MSI spec sheets and Quick User Guide show.  You were asking if there were any board headers (I assume you meant pin headers) for add-on connection of same and mine doesn't.  Usually, if the PCB incorporates a design for those, there's a place on the board (not just the spot for the rear connector).  Since the s-video is "under" the Parallel port connector, it would tend to rule-out that location for a pin header (phyically impossible).
    The only add-on connector capability is the COM port on mine.  There's definitely a pin header for that.
    I think you should look at the HP version.  I believe that OEM board has the ports you want.
    BTW, I know there are/were more versions of the board including one with a PCI riser slot.  There's a space vacant on might for that.  I thought the HP version might have that slot.  When I get the chance, I'm going to take a peak at one.   
    Danno
    Edit:  When I was thinking about add-on connectors, I forgot there are also the 1394 and USB pin headers on the board as well as the front audio pin group.  Sorry....

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