Thermal paste reapplication - myths and facts

I've decided today that i've had enough of sweating while working with my MacBook and shoving thick magazines under it whenever i carry it somewhere etc., so i assembled all the needed supplies and tools and went to work.
The results are... Well... positive, though not what many people out there expect. Removing the mess Apple made and reaplying the paste isn't a magic bullet that solves everything and beats a few laws of thermodynamics along the way. It, however, does make the machine more usable. Here are a few observations:
1) What a mess! Not only was there too much thermal paste, but it was the worst, cheapish kind and it all dried up!
2) The heatsinks are also cheap and messy. Very badly polished, with numerous surface flaws. Retention mechanism also leaves a lot to be desired.
3) Air flow is bad and completely nonsensical. Everything before the "aluminum era" made sense. AlBooks and MacBooks don't, because apple moved the connectors and ports to the sides, eliminating two vents in the process.
4) Apple's iMessy Paste (TM) IS the reason top surfaces heat up on some machines, after all! Instead of being absorbed by the heat pipe assembly, it accumulates in the casing and (probably much worse) the motherboard itself.
5) Don't expect an enormous drop in CPU core temperatures, especially under max. load. 5 deg C less, tops, is what you'll probably get. Do, however, expect considerably lower case and idle temperatures - i get about 30-45 deg C idling and up to 75 deg C under max. load.
6) The top surfaces around keyboard are quite comfortable now, even when cores are at 75 deg C for prolonged periods of time. The part between the keyboard and the screen is still as hot as before, but you never put your fingers there, so it's not a problem.
7) Machine cools down after heavy load considerably faster now. It goes down from 75 to 60 in about 5-10 seconds, then to 50 in about a minute or two.
8) Fans work exactly the way they did before the whole ordeal. They are idling at minimum RPM until about 75-80 deg C, at which point they start reving up slowly until the core temperatures go down to 65-70. Then they return to idle mode.
9) Temperature probe placement is a bit weird. One of them sits on the heat pipe, which makes sense, the other on the back of MacBook Pro casing itself. Wouldn't it be logical for that second probe to override and engage the fans when case temperatures get to high?
That's about it. Sorry for a longish post, hope this helps someone...

Did some further testing, so here's an update...
Ambient temp.: 24 deg C (wooO! temperatures finally dropped!)
Power profile: Best Performance
Power supply: Internal (battery)
Machine: 2.0 GHz MBP, 2 GB RAM, 256 MB VRAM, Week 12
Load: 2 x "yes > /dev/null"
10 minutes since startup, Idle, battery meter says 4:25 left:
http://o.orcinus.googlepages.com/MBPidle1.jpg
16 minutes since startup, Full Load, battery meter says 1:22 left:
http://o.orcinus.googlepages.com/MBP_load.jpg
20 minutes since startup, Idle, battery meter says 3:56 left:
http://o.orcinus.googlepages.com/MBPidle2.jpg
Given enough time, the core temperatures go back down to around 43-45 deg C.
Unfortunately, i wasn't farsighted enough to record the graphs before the surgery
Interesting thing... During the whole test, the fans never reved up higher than maybe 25% full speed. I could barely hear them. It occured to me that maybe something was wrong, that i may have left a fan cable loose and it disconnected or something, but they DO kick in when i run the hardware test from the DVD, so it's definately not that. Weird.
MacBook Pro, PowerBook Ti Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Similar Messages

Thermal Paste - Heating Issues

I've read many places that the new 2011 MBP's are too hot! I've also read that Apple is using far too much thermal paste on the CPU and GPU and that is what is causing the overheating. Apparently the first Core Duo MBP had too much thermal paste as well and many people reported that their GPU's were literally "cooked". Should there be concern over this in the newest MBP's?

My experience is that yes, they are getting too hot. I bought a 13" macbook pro about three weeks ago and less than half a month later, the even newer "Sandy Bridge" chipped MBP's released. I was pretty upset, but luckily Apple let my exchange my "old" MBP for the newer one. Believe it or not, after two days I took it back and swapped back for the 2010 machine! While I enjoyed the speed bump in the newer model, I did not enjoy the heat the computer seemed to be giving out. Just doing fairly light Photoshop work, the fan sounded like an aircraft engine. Even when surfing videos on YouTube I began to notice the fan kicking in. This never happened in my 2010 machine. In fact, one of the things that most impressed me most about the 2010 MBP was how quiet and cool it was. So I went backwards and traded back to the 2010 I had just swapped I'm pleased as punch. The 13" MacBook Pro with the 2.4 Ghz Intel Core Duo chipset is fine for my needs. No problems at all with heat and quiet as a church mouse. In addition, I also have found the NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics card inside the 2010 MBP to be superior to the integrated Intel graphics chip inside the newer model. I actually saw a step backwards with the newest MacBook when playing intensive games like WOW and StarCraft 2. Those games move better on the 2010 model and the fan doesn't sound like a hair dryer. I don't mind waiting a TINY bit longer in Photoshop for things to render in return for cooler fingers and faster gaming. Am I nuts??? Part of me wishes I had kept the 2011 machine but the coolness factor and better graphics card in the 2010 model won out for me in the end.

Thermal Paste Study and Conclusion

This is a good article discussing the re-application of thermal paste, and comparisons. Check it out...........
http://www.macgeekery.com/hacks/hardware/thedefinitive_macbook_pro_thermalroundup

And the answer is....
The short version is that reapplication helps… but I’m not sure it helps enough to bother with.
Nice. That's simple enough, then. Let's all move on.

Thermal paste and mb replacement

has any one who reapplied the thermal paste tried to call apple to ask for a MB replacement(for getting rid of the whine)? would apple allow it?

The thermal paste issue is not considered a problem that needs repair. Thankfully, it does impact performance drastically, although one must ask why a company that prides itself on quality would allow a contracter to provide motherboards with CPU's floating in grease. I am guessing it was the rapid roll-out, and the fact that these "high end" machines are produced in mainland China, not Taiwan or other locations. I have a replaced logic board and a replaced battery. My laptop is significantly warped. I wont complain further.
My plea is for all of us to hold Apple to it's warranty. Thankfully, I puchased AppleCare, which obviously will be neeed. I hope for some sort of recall, and a dramatic focus on the next MacBook Pro that demonstrates correction of these problems. Having them built in mainland China is a profit move, not one for quality. Far better manufacturers exist in Taiwan. let's see what happens. If nothing does, I think that the free market will speak. Apple has not increased it's share of the laptop market. If they don't get this act together, I can say tha there will be one less purchase in the future. I really want Apple to succeed, but it won't happen if they cannot address their niche 3% market with a machine that is worth the "Apple Premium".

MacBook Pro (mid 2010, 15", i5) - heat, thermal paste and genius bar...

Hi all,
I'd like some advice. I own a mid 2010 core i5 15" MBP which I purchased when they were released (April 2010 or something like that). Since then the laptop has worked more or less OK but it's always been plagued with high temperatures, 75C+ in idle... with basically nothing running or something light such as just Safari (*without* Flash, as I only open Chrome when a website I need doesn't work without Flash; everywhere else, for example YouTube etc, I just use the HTML5 version of the players). The fans stay almost always at 6K rpm, and only rarely they run at a lower speed - when for example I switch the laptop on after having left it switched off for a while, etc. So the fans seem to work OK and seem to respond to the temperature; I have even tried resetting SMC several times, but no difference.
It just looks like the CPU runs hotter than it should. I have default energy saving settings, and don't have any software installed that may keep the CPU running high - such as Caffeine, SmartSleep, etc. Anyway, even a clean install of the OS (Lion) won't make any difference. If I leave the laptop switched off for a while and I switch it on again, within a minute or two the temperature is high again even if I don't open anything else. Even if in the activity monitor there's nothing using a lot of CPU. The temperature also does go further up if I run something CPU intensive such as Handbrake.
While the laptop has worked almost always OK (I do think that some freezes or other occasional stability issues may also depend on temperature), I don't think it's running as well as it could / should from a temperature point of view.
I have read lots of discussions in here and elsewhere, and from direct experience with other laptops (Apple and not) in the past, I believe the issue may likely be related to poor application of the thermal paste. I could re-apply it (for example the AS5 or similar) myself very easily, but I don't want to void the warranty.
I have the 3-years Apple Care, but I have never needed to ask Apple for support before, so I don't know how it works.
Sorry for the lengty introduction... here's the questions:
- Can I just go to the nearest Apple Store (London, Regent St.) or am I *required* to book an appointment with the "genius" bar?
- Is it likely they will take into consideration my advice to reapply the thermal paste as this is quite likely the source of the problem?
- What is the likelihood that they may just replace my laptop with a newer one?
- Does the AppleCare entitle me with some particular privileges for what concerns support?
- I have also upgraded the RAM to 8GB a few months ago, and replaced the HDD (which I use as external drive) with an SSD. Do I need to restore the original components in the laptop before going to the AppleStore? Or is this not needed since RAM and HDD are user-replaceable parts?
Thanks a lot in advance for your help!
Vito

Hello V-MA!
I found this webpage: http://osx86.wikidot.com/known-issues#toc1
by googeling for "com.apple.NVDAResman"
Probably you have to remove the Geforce Grafic drivers as discribed here. But please wait until some others in the forum confirm this.
If you don't understand how to do these commands with Terminal, ask once again for help.
In your message you did not metion, that you just updated 1 hour and something your OS ("System uptime in nanoseconds: 6688834587150"). This is an important information.
marek

MBP and the Thermal Paste Discussions

I've read with interest the postings on this web site regarding the MBP heat issues and the possibility that too much thermal paste is causing that problem. I've spent quite a few years designing computer motherboards using Intel processor chips, and want to share some thoughts on the topic. I only mention my background because one thing this business has taught me is that we can all be easily mislead by our test data if our process for gathering the data isn't rigorous (and, believe me, I've learned that lesson many times).
First, the excess thermal paste is definitely a problem, regardless of whether it is the root cause of the heat issue. Some of the photos posted on the various web sites show thermal paste covering bypass capacitors on the chip carriers (the green fiberglass boards that carry the CPU and GPU die). Thermal pastes can cause stray capacitances that can interfere with circuit operation. Standard industry practice is to use only as much paste as is necessary to achieve a layer that is about as thin as a single layer of tissue paper (or less). The amount used by Apple is far too large, particularly because the paste in coming into contact with other electrical components and conductors. A common failure mode associated with degraded bypass capacitors is random (and unrepeatable) crashes due to corrupted digital data in the processor chip.
In addition, all thermal pastes contain various types of fluids. Over time, these fluids evaporate, and frequently they condense elsewhere inside a computer. When CD drives were first introduced years ago, a common cause of mid-lifetime failures was condensates on the optics of the laser. The condensation fogs the lens and interferes with the ability of the laser to focus while reading and writing data. The contamination was traced to outgassing by thermal pastes, greases, sulfurized elastomers, and similar items used to build the computer. (Note that the Apple service manual for the MBP refers to the thermal paste as “thermal grease”.) Consumer electronics manufacturers learned to minimize the use of such materials in computer designs. The amount of thermal paste shown in the Apple service manual is very large, and I wouldn't rule out that it might contribute to future DVD drive failures.
It is difficult to say, based on the available data, that reducing the amount of thermal paste actually contributes to improving the thermal behavior of the MBP. Part of the problem is that the procedure to remove the pastes involves disassembling the laptop, and this introduces the possibility that the disassembly/reassembly process is inadvertently fixing the problem.
First, the high case temperatures could be the result of loose or poorly placed thermal sensors. If the disassembly/reassembly process fixed a loose sensor, or loose sensor electrical connection, or placed the sensor in a better position, you would get lower case temperatures, and possibly (inadvertently) attribute this to less paste.
Second, the cooling system design in the MBP requires that the die caps on the chip carriers be pressed tightly against the pads on the heat sink, so that heat is transferred efficiently. If the MBP is not assembled properly, (i.e., if the logic board mounting screws are not properly torqued, or the logic board is not mechanically aligned properly to ensure a tight fit to the heat sink), it is possible that this will manifest itself as high case temperatures. In the Intel processor chips there are two paths for heat to travel – out of the die cap, and through the electrical contacts to the motherboard. If the die cap isn’t properly cooled, heat will instead go into the motherboard, and the case temperature will rise. There is a possibility that the disassembly/reassembly process will fix a loose or misaligned logic board problem, with the result that the case temp will be reduced.
Also, if you work through the details of the thermal model that results from excess paste, it's hard to see how it would result in more heat to the case and less to the heat sink. Most of the photos on the web appear to show thin paste on top of the die, indicating that there was probably a low thermal resistance path to the heat sink prior to disassembly. The excess paste to the sides will simply further reduce the thermal resistance between the chip carrier and the heat sink. I may be missing something, but it's hard to envision how this lower thermal resistivity between the CPU and the heat sink drives more heat into the case. But it is also possible that the disassembly process destroys evidence of the actual connection to the heat sink, so this failure mode is hard to judge.
The best way to determine if removing the excess paste is actually helping would be to measure the exhaust air temperature from the cooling fans before and after removing the excess paste. I haven't seen such data, but if it were taken, and showed that the exhaust air was at a significantly higher temperature after the fix than before it, then we would know that the fix worked. If not, then the heat is going elsewhere, and it is possible that fix has actually made things worse.
Finally, all the symptoms we're seeing can be explained by poor software calibration and/or incorrect software control of the CPU clock speed. I wouldn't rule out a software fix at his point.
I'm not saying removing the paste is not a fix, only that there are still open questions that remain to be answered. It would be hard for me to recommend that anyone rework an MBP for the thermal problem in the absence of additional data.
For myself, I own an MBP, and though I have access to an electronics lab and some great technicians, I intend to buy Applecare, and in the meantime wait for a fix (or at least more information) from Apple.
Best of luck to everyone who has this issue - thats what we get for being early adopters.
G5 2.5 DP Mac OS X (10.4)
G5 2.5 DP Mac OS X (10.4)
G5 2.5 DP Mac OS X (10.4)
G5 2.5 DP Mac OS X (10.4)
G5 2.5 DP Mac OS X (10.4)
G5 2.5 DP Mac OS X (10.4)

Well I replaced my thermal compound and the temperature on my cpu went down and the temperature of my case went down also. The fans also kick in sooner leaving me to believe that the heat is being properly distributed the heatsink whereas before it was not as there was too much thermal compound making it act like an insulator.
I cannot say if the exhaust air is any hotter, but I know overall my laptop is much more cooler and never gets extremely HOT. Even under heavy loads the areas where it used to get really hot, above f keys, palm area, underneath the MBP are not hot to the point where someone could burn themself at all.
I really do hope that Apple does address this issue because I could not live with the heat before, I always had to hook up an external keyboard because my hands got too sweaty from the palm rest and the keyboard. Now everything is operating like any other laptop I've owned and I am a very satisifed Apple user. Let's hope that Apple is really looking into it and will have a reasonable answers for all MBP users in a reasonable amount of time.

Laptop doesn't turn on after re-assembly and replacing thermal paste. Please help!

Hi,
I hope anyone can help me. I took apart my laptop HP HDX16 to replace thermal paste and clean up the fan. I did everything very carefully as showed in manual. I cleaned the old paste and pads off and replaced thermal paste but not the pads as someone in the store suggested that there is no need for putting pads and that the thermal compound is enough to have it on there. I left only one pad on the heat sink in place where it services Northbridge as it was in good condition. On the Northbridge itself I put thermal compound as well as on the GPU and CPU. I put back every screw and connected each cable as it was before (I am pretty sure about it). I was quite happy with my job but after I tried to turn the computer on it wouldn't start at all. Did I do something wrong? Please help me because I don't have any idea what to do now.

I am a little confused here, it sounds like you removed all the thermal pads except for one, if this is so, you need to put all the thermal pads back in place.
Anyways aside from that, if you plug the adapter in you will have a steady light where it plugs into the laptop. The light will always be on whether the machine is booted up or not.
If you don't have a steady light then you need to check the DC receptor where it plugs into the MoBo. Sometimes a cable may look like it's fully seated, but isn't. It still will boot up with the battery in place even if the DC jack plug is not correctly seated.
Check the small ribbon cable on the power button board where it connects into the MoBo.
Check that the processor is correctly aligned with it's key and that the locking mechanism is fully locked.
Make sure the RAM is seated correctly.
If these suggestions sound obvious, I have to start some where.
The problem here is that only you can help your self because you disassembled you machine, I can only make suggestions as what you may have missed and obviously something was missed.
If your thinking that you incorrectly applied the thermal paste, then that's not the problem. Even if there were no thermal pads or paste in place, the machine would still boot up, but it would heat up very quickly.
If the fan plug was plugged in incorrectly you would get a message in the BIOS upon boot up saying that the fan has a problem and it would shut down, but it sound like it's not even getting that far.
There is also a secondary fan that is used to cool the hard drive bays, check that plug as well. You may not get a BIOS message if this fan is not plugged in.
Here is the HP Media Services Library, you may find it helpful. Make sure you're signed in before clicking on the link.
http://h20574.www2.hp.com/default.htm?lang=en&cc=US&hpappid=psml
If you need help with the library, post again, give the video page time to load, the small video screen may stay black for a little while.

New Motherboard Replace: Part Numbers? and thermal paste?

I am replacing a new motherboard in my computer
-How do I take off the old thermal paste from the CPU and fan, do I use a paper towel? Or is there something safer?
-And how do I put on the new thermal paste and how much of it should I put on the CPU?
-Also what is the difference between a motherboard that reads on it in the middle:
MCP61PM-HM REV:2.2
15-V06-012200
and another motherboard that reads:
MCP61PM-HM REV:2.2
15-V06-01221
basically that last number on each motherboard, what does it mean and what's the difference between each motherboard?

Otwa, welcome to the forum.
Here is a very good video to help you with removing the thermal paste:
It is basically an advertisement for Arctic Silver products, but Paul from Newegg always does a great job of making a guide. I have been an overclocker for years and have always used Arctic Silver products. The two part kit of remover is new to me and something to try next time I replace the paste on a CPU.
I believe that there should be another number in 15-V06-01221. It should be 12201. If this is correct, I may be able to answer your questions.
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I've been paying for Adobe Premiere pro for the past Thre onth and today, despite the fact that i have paid already for the upcoming month, i cannot access it because of an "intenet connexion problem". But I'm connected and I have the right ID. What shoul

I've been paying for Adobe Premiere pro for the past three month and today, despite the fact that i have paid already for the upcoming month, i cannot access it because of an "intenet connexion problem". But I'm connected and I have the right ID. What should I do?

Lanakivee
Try this it worked for me Pat Willener gave it to me off the site :
I have not read all you wrote, so I may have missed some points. As I understand it, you installed FP 10 on IE7, but it won't play any Flash content?
Try this
download the FP uninstaller from http://www.adobe.com/go/tn_14157
close all browser windows, then run the uninstaller
download the offline ActivX installer for Internet Explorer from http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/install_flash_player_ax.exe
close all browser windows, then run the installer

Reapply thermal paste and get more noise?

Hi guys, from what I read, reapplying thermal paste reduces the heat but makes the fans go on much faster.
For those who reapplyed it, does it go on too often or only when processor is used at a certain level (say, 50%)?
Thanks!

T9600 in a T500 isn't going to cause your laptop to melt down. I have a T9900 in my current T500, and it is working just as well as when i had the P8600.
These vacuum cooler are pretty much useless in these large thinkpads, and sometimes will cause other issues. Some of these external plug in fans can cause a path crossover between the directional flow of the cool intake air and the hot exhaust air, thus causing an area with stagnant air pocket, which means it will actually cause more harm than good.
Regards,
Jin Li
May this year, be the year of 'DO'!
I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft

Thermal paste and cooling

Okay so I am making a switch to a new note book cpu (the t9600) and of course since it's a step up I am going to be a little overly cautious as far as cooling is concerned. I saw an article that said Intels stock thermal paste was actually better than theArtic Silvers. I am curious what goes into looking for a good thermal paste? Secondly, cooling systems for laptops. I hate those mats, but may decide to use one. I also saw a vacuum do hickey (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Notebook-Laptop-Vacuum-USB-Case-Cooling-Fan-Cooler-Pad-/220948357741?pt=LH_D... and I kind of like the concept and overall design but wonder if worth the money put into it or if it's just waste? On a more curious note with the fan. I want to get peoples opinions on that fan. It's more hypothetical from my stand point but if anybody has experiance I welcome it. That fan mentioned and my laptop the thinkpad t500. The t500 has to heat exhaust ports on the left hand corner one on the side and one on back. I think the cpu is pretty close to the one on the side. I am curious about airflow if adding two of those things assuming they are worth it (and despite severly reduced battery life)

T9600 in a T500 isn't going to cause your laptop to melt down. I have a T9900 in my current T500, and it is working just as well as when i had the P8600.
These vacuum cooler are pretty much useless in these large thinkpads, and sometimes will cause other issues. Some of these external plug in fans can cause a path crossover between the directional flow of the cool intake air and the hot exhaust air, thus causing an area with stagnant air pocket, which means it will actually cause more harm than good.
Regards,
Jin Li
May this year, be the year of 'DO'!
I am a volunteer, and not a paid staff of Lenovo or Microsoft

Thermal compound replacement, RESULTS and PICTURES

YOU CAN HAVE A MACBOOK PRO THAT ISN'T SCORCHING HOT!!
(note that this will NOT fix any whine or moo; they are unrelated problems)
Here's how.
My Mother's Macbook Pro (Or Cookbook, if you will) Arrived a week ago today. I played around with it to make sure everything is alright because my mother doesn't know how to check for things like dead pixels, bad ram, or cough improperly applied thermal compound.
One of the first things I noticed after turning on the new MBP is how totally sweet it is! The second thing I noticed is how freaking hot it is: I recoiled in pain from the Fn key bar the first time I touched it. Disappointed, I started searching the web and sure enough, pretty much everyone who owns one is complaining that it's too hot for comfortable use.
Apple calling this a "notebook" instead of a "laptop" is a total semantic cop-out. It's a PORTABLE COMPUTER and I must be able to trust it around my dogs, children, valuables without the MagSafe burning up or the battery swelling and bursting.
I don't have objective figures for just how hot it was, but it was right about at my pain threshold above and below the belt, and sometimes over it. I couldn't hold my hand to it for more than a few seconds. In particular the area to the left of the touchpad was of concern. I do have before-and-after figures of the CPU and HDD; I invite yourselves to look at them:
Before After (Temps in degrees C, ambient 25 C)
50-60 26-35 CPU (idle)
76-85 56-65 CPU (load)
41 33 HDD
In particular the HDD figures are a great relief. HDDs are notoriously sensitive to temperature and even a few degrees C can cut their lifetimes significantly. Furthermore the area is now cool to the touch and I can once again rest my left palm on it without discomfort. The ranges are due to the fact that the sensor inside the core duo is flaky. In 5 seconds it can run anywhere from +-5 to +-10. Nevertheless it is accurate enough for our purposes. Below are photos, procedure, and a rough outline of test methodologies:
http://www.pbase.com/silentplummet/image/62641589
Here's the idle scenario before the procedure. The computer has been on for hours (days really) and I'm doing the work I normally do on it. TextEdit is open (to a little project I'm working on) with firefox and the temperature monitor. Alt-tab is to show that those are the only programs running. CPU temp is dead at 50 C. This is INSANE for an idle figure on ANY computer; desktop, laptop, "notebook" or otherwise.
http://www.pbase.com/silentplummet/image/62641590
The operation area and stress test. To stress the ATI chip I've jacked up the resolution, run a couple of quartz programs, SNES9x (a hardware emulator; the software shown is called "Energy Breaker") with a brutal multitasking OpenGL hardware renderer, and Google Earth. To get the CPU going I have Adobe's Lightroom processing thumbnails, and again SNES9x. For various I/O I have two shells executing yes > /dev/null, a USB mouse plugged in, and all the HDD access from lightroom. I figure it paints a pretty good picture of the "worst case scenario" of hardware stress for a laptop like this.
http://www.pbase.com/silentplummet/image/62641591
The CPU core(s) is at 76 C. I should note that at this point, as hot as the CPU is, overall the case is really not much hotter than it was before. In other words, it's just as unacceptable.
At this point I turned her off and dug in. I used a howto from Ifixit to serve as my guide. The procedure went without surprises until I got all the way to the logic board.
http://www.pbase.com/silentplummet/image/62641592
Dear lord!! That is an obscene amount of compound. It's casting a shadow over the rest of the board!! This gray gak is piled on so thick, it's no wonder the cooling system couldn't work effectively. It had even gotten all over components nowhere near the dies. That definitely cannot be good for their lifespan. Here's a shot of the heatpipe:
http://www.pbase.com/silentplummet/image/62641593
Terrible. Thermal compound has been squished out all over the place, including the chassis itself. This explains why it was getting so hot. A photo from the MBP service manual has been floating around the net, illustrating that this gross amount of compound is actually according to procedure.
http://www.pbase.com/silentplummet/image/62641594
Clean as a whistle. After removing the bulk of the compound with q-tips I used ArctiClean 2-step process to emulsify the rest and remove it with paper towels. You can see it's not perfect but it's close enough for me. I'm not overclocking this thing; I just want to run it "in spec" and have it not burn me. At this point, the CPU dies and the heat pipe interfaces should have mirror finishes. It's an overclocker's dream, and Apple already did the work for me.
http://www.pbase.com/silentplummet/image/62641595
This is how I applied Arctic Silver 5 to replace the compound I removed. Squeeze the tiniest little bit out of the syringe directly on to the die, and scrape it across with a flat edge (they recommend a razor blade but I just used a plastic ID card). Take the amount of compound you see on the Core Duo (on the right) and make a flat, even layer like the one you see on the ATI (left).
http://www.pbase.com/silentplummet/image/62641596
Turned it on and went straight for the hard stress test, after making sure everything was OK of course =) Wow! It reads 58 C in the screenshot, and doesn't go above 65C!! Moreover, there isn't even a bit of warmth above the Fn keys, and the HDD area is cool to the touch. I'd call this one a complete success. I'm idling right now and the temperature reads between 26 and 31C. Even the bottom is just slightly warm to the touch. Now I have a real laptop again!
So why did this happen?
There's a lot of confusion about the way the Macbook Pro cools itself. I admit it's confusing. Basically, Apple is shipping Macbook Pros with one cooling system, and replacing the thermal compound changes it into a very different system. Let me try to explain what I learned from digging around the hardware.
1. The built-in thermometer in the CPU is flaky. That's why you have to access it with a kernel extension and all kinds of hacks, and why Apple circumvented it completely in the cooling system. That's right: the MBP cooling system ignores the Core Duo temperature entirely.
2. The cooling system consists of a convective (my guess, I don't think anyone really knows what kind of) heatpipe which is in the base, directing heat out to two heatsinks which are then to be cooled by two fans if need be.
3. There are two temperature sensors. One is on the heatpipe itself, and the other one is on the chassis just next to the right fan. Probably the hardware monitors these temperatures and the differential between them to decide when to activate the fans and how long.
4. Behavior before the replacement procedure: The CPU core would get hot, hotter than I've ever seen a CPU go, at 80-85C. Most people confirm their MBPs also exhibit this. Where was this heat going? Well the fans didn't turn on until I put it at full load. Even when the fans did turn on, there wasn't much warm exhaust coming out of the vents at the back. The chassis heated up until it was unbearable, and most of the excess heat was being radiated away from it.
To sum up, the ineffective thermal interface between the CPU dies and the heat pipe was inhibiting heat from tripping the fan sensors. This explains why the fans didn't turn on until drastic temperatures were attained, and why the chassis got so hot. Essentially, the chassis was serving as a big heatsink for the CPU, which is the only reason it didn't overheat and shut down.
Effective, Apple, but not quite appropriate.
5. Behavior after the replacement procedure: The first thing you notice is that the fans scream from the second you turn the thing on. They aren't going full blast but pretty close to it. An effective thermal interface using an APPROPRIATE AMOUNT of AS5 (anything would do but I figured if I'm applying thermal compound, why not go for the authority) allows the heat to go straight from the cores into the heatpipe, tripping the sensor early and fast. The fans come on, I can feel hot air coming out the back, and the chassis now removed from the thermal equation is cool and comfortable again.
Of course, the thermal equation is different from before, and from the way Apple has tuned the fans to work from the factory configuration. This is more cooling than we probably need, and I foresee an update to Tiger allowing us to choose the thermal/noise tradeoff for ourselves.
Well, I hope that explains it, and I hope that those of you still suffering the abuses of your "in spec" MBP can take some hope from my findings, or are emboldened to go ahead and repeat the procedure yourself. I will post informative links here.
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/85.1.0.html
http://www.arcticsilver.com/
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1864582 (This is where I learned of the thermal paste issue)
Remember if you ever open up your MBP to NOT BREAK ANYTHING and please, always read the instructions before you reach in. =)

methanol, my conclusion is that Apple's specifications for thermal grease application are technically sound. As a corollary, I put the postings claiming that isn't so in the Urban Myth category.
There's a lot of technical literature on design and manufacturing specifications for thermal grease use, the kind of literature that appears in professional technical publications and is written by engineers. That literature supports Apple's thermal grease specifications. Putting it another way, Apple's engineers have a lot more technical training and experience than the average hobbyist who is working from the directions that came with Arctic Silver.
Yes, my computer has the "messy" looking application of thermal grease. No, it isn't inappropriate and doesn't need to be modified, and Apple did not make a quality assurance/quality control mistake.
Posts about the thermal grease modification began appearing several months ago, followed by Hardware Monitor charts showing considerable differences in "before fix" and "after fix" temperatures. I found, however, that I could easily replicate those before and after charts, and my computer compared favorably with the "after fix" temperature charts. Why? There was no quality control on the generation of the charts. And of course some owners damaged their computers in the process of taking them apart and putting them back together. Not a good idea, in my opinion.
Painstaking manual application of thermal grease might result in an insignificant drop in CPU temperature, perhaps 2 or 3C. Trying that in a mass production situation would result in more CPU failures.
True, some people got very significant reductions of case temperatures. That will happen if the sensors are not working (broken connection) and the fans run full out.

Macbook Pro Thermal Paste Question

Here is an interesting read on the thermal paste question......
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/05/23/thermal-paste-question.html?pag e=1

Peter, thanks for that link.
I had done a pretty extensive search of technical literature about thermal grease and had reached a similar conclusion. At best, reapplication of thermal grease results in a pretty small (I'll call it insignificant) improvement, and at worst results in damage and -- if so -- a voided warranty.
Having been initially impressed by some of the "before" and "after" graphs by people who did the thermal grease "fix" I started experimenting with my own graphs.
Guess what? I can easily crank out graphs from my unmodified MBP that are similar to or better than some of the "after fix" graphs. In other words, big deal.
Apple has some very competent engineers for design and assembly of their computers. Given the components they have to work with, they set specifications intended to result in reliable operation. It's likely their specifications for application of thermal grease are backed by data on quality control and reliability. While those specifications may offend the aesthetic sensibilities of PC crankers, I've concluded the PC crankers have built up some urban myths about thermal grease that are not consistent with the actual technical literature on thermal grease.
I'm able to work comfortably on my MPB for 10 to 12 hours days. It's fast. It's stable; still no freezes, panics or crashes while operating 7 days a week since March 30, when I received it. There are parts of the case that get hot to the touch but I don't need to touch them to use it. Case temperatures are similar to those reached by my 5-year old TiBook, so I'm not worried about component reliability (the HD in my MBP actually is in a cooler environment than the HD in the TiBook).
My MBP isn't going to get the thermal grease "fix" unless Apple were to recommend it -- and I think that's unlikely.

Early 2011 MacBook Pro- The thermal paste discussion.

It is my goal to clear up the questions and concerns Apple customers have been having regarding heat or fan related concerns with Early 2011 MacBook Pros. If your MacBook Pro was produced within the last few months the thermal issue has been resolved and it will likely not be in issue for you. If you are still wondering if your computer is effected or what the real issue is keep reading.
The MacBook Cools itself by 2 main methods: active and passive. The active cooling is via a fan that blows air through a heatsync and into a tube called a heat pipe which leads to the back of the computer where the hot air is discharged through a vent at the bottom of the screen behind the hinge. The fan lowers the air pressure inside the case causing outside air is drawn in the case, displacing the hot air inside and helping to cool the other components.
The computer uses passive cooling to remove the residual heat from the processor which comes mostly in the form of radiant heat. Passive cooling is also used to cool the other components of the computer (memory, disk drives, battery etc). Passive cooling works by conductive heat transfer ie. syncing to the case of the computer. Some of the heat then is radiated. Some of it is transferred from the outside of the case via convective cooling; the foot pads on the bottom cover are designed to raise it up just enough to allow air underneath for convection to occur. (Convection is the process in which hot air to rises and is displaced by cooler air.) The rest of the heat from the bottom cover is absorbed by whatever surface you have the computer on.
The processor will not sync to the case very much if the board is assembled properly however the other components of the computer will, requiring the case to be in open air to allow for passive cooling to take place.
If you have some sort of covering such as a plastic snap on case it will likely interfere with passive cooling in all of it's 3 of it forms, this will cause the computer to be abnormally hot. I recently saw someone in the Apple store with a MacBook Air experiencing abnormal heating due to a plastic snap case so this particular problem is not unique to MacBook Pros and it is not the cause of the issue being discussed here. I do not recommend the use or anything that covers the computer while it is running with the exception of something that covers the back of the display panel only. If you are worried about your computer getting damaged go and buy a laptop insurance policy from Worth Ave group. The insurance does not cover cosmetic damage or misplaced items but will cover accidental damage including spills. This insurance also covers theft, vandalism and natural disasters, is quite inexpensive and the claims process and deductible is similar to most phone insurance plans (which they also offer).
User induced overheating can also occur when the computer is placed on an improper surface such as a couch cushion, car seat, bed, pillow etc. Doing this can interfere with both passive and active cooling.
As I mentioned earlier In all likelihood if your computer was produced after May it is not affected. I personally have been in posession of 3 MacBook Pros, one produced before May which had the problem, one after which had no problems and one produced more recently that has mind blowing thermal performance way beyond all of my expectations.
So the question at this point is exactly what is the problem, how can it be diagnosed and how can it be rectified.
After extensive research and testing I have determined the issue to be related to improper application thermal paste. I involuntarily became involved in this pursuit as a result of the problems I was experiencing and I did not initially come at from an objective viewpoint but rather one of cautious skepticism. I had anticipated before purchasing my computer that there may be a thermal issue. This anticipaion came as a result of reading an article on ifixit.com about the disassembly of the brand new early 2011 MacBook Pro. When the technician performing the disassembly removed the main heat sync he expressed concern about how much much thermal paste was present, expressing that it seemed excessive. This lead the technician to question wether or not it would cause heating problems.
Proper application of thermal paste is critical to the functionality of the active cooling system and when applied improperly will not properly transfer the heat to the heat-sync which in turn gets cooled by the fan. Proper application of thermal paste insures the heat is removed from the case as efficiently as possible. Doing this both reduces the speed at which the fan needs to run in a lot of situations and prevents too much heat from the processor needing to be cooled by passive means. If is is not applied properly it will eventually lead to overheating of the case as well as the other components of the computer. This can cause damage firstly to the computer's battery and can also significantly shorten the life computer. (Or any other kind of electronic device for that matter.)
The problem can be diagnosed by testing the computer using a program called System Load or any other software that will put your computers proscessor use up to its maximum and keep it there indefinitely. Placing full load on your GPU at the same time during the test is also recommended. Keep in mind, if you are using your computer the fan will spin up if needed for additional cooling. You should expect the fan go up to its maximum speed during the test, it is not in of itself an indication of a negative result. Make sure to have the computer plugged in, fully charged and on a proper surface. A desk or other flat surface should be fine. Exceptions would include the top of a refrigerator since it has insulation just underneath the metal exterior or any surface that is heated by any means such as a dryer or other appliance.
(The temps to follow are in ºF)
Run the test for up to 1 hour. If the case of the computer breaks 93 degrees your unit is likely affected. Expect the unit to even possibly reach temps approaching and exceeding 100º, if this happens immediately abort the test. Also look for the processor temp shooting up to around 180 in the first 30 seconds and the fan spinning up right away. Typically on a properly functioning unit the temperature of the case will end up being somewhere in the neighborhood of 88-91º. If this test is preformed in a room with a normal ambient room temperature of about 68 degrees. Even after an hour the case of the computer should not be significantly hot, just warm to the touch. On a normally operating unit the fan will start to kick in within 90 seconds or so and may not reach full speed even after several minuets.
At one point the case of my computer actually reached 95º during normal web browsing.
This is a problem that I have had successfully corrected twice by reapplication of thermal paste. The first time was on a machine produced prior to may and the second was after a logic board was replaced at the repair depot. (I suspect the inventory turnover is lower for boards than whole computers resulting in a board from the initial production run being installed in my computer.)
If you forget everything I just wrote remember this. #1 if you are using your computer hard enough the fan will end up running at high speed at some point. #2 This problem is not in any way related to the design of the MacBook Pro, or its use/application. #3 This mostly not a problem of the CPU being too hot; these Sandy Bridge CPUs are rated for 212ºf and will routinely be in the neighborhood of 200º, this is hotter than other chips but well within design limits. #4 I have done everything in my power to make sure that this problem has been corrected and I have every logical and evidenced based reason to believe it has been resolved in machines produced after may. #5 This is not an Apple acknolidged issue. Technicians will tell you that there is no problem because these higher temps are normal and within operating limits and if they weren't the machine would shut itself off. (This is a bit extreme; just like a lot of other devices such as electronics, toaster ovens and space heaters with thermal overload protection this automatic shutoff is intended to occur when damage or risk of fire is imminent because the device is WAY outside of normal operating paramaters.) They will also not tell you when asked what these limits are, that they know what they are or in some cases that such figures they even exsist.
I stake my personal and professional reputation on the accuracy of my findings, it is my job as a private consultant to help my clients to resolve complicated and expensive issues just like this one.
Bottom line if you are having a problem and Apple won't fix it on warranty don't ditch your machine, just pay to have it done yourself. In most cases you can pay have it done at the Apple store. It will probably cost you less than 100.00, and it will not void your warranty as long as the work is done by Apple certified technician. It will be well worth it; after all in spite of this MacBook Pro's are hands down the best portable computers on the market, with an industry leading warranty and support to back it up. On it's worst day Apple's service and support is better than any computer/ consumer electronics company, even on its best day.
I hope this helps to clarify this issue! I also hope it will help anyone affected to resolve the problem instead of resorting to a refund and settling for something else.

hello all
you can try this:
Go to system preferences > settings > built in display > see bottom of window.
check "show mirroring options in the menu bar when available". then click "airplay display" > and select your device.
That's what happened to my MBP - 15-inch, Late 2011 model.

FYI: Fixing your own Thermal Paste Problem

If you "fix" the thermal grease .. umm... abundance yourself, per AppleCare you void your warranty.
So if your cutting tape/removing noticable ammounts of paste, yes you warranty technically no longer exists.
HOWEVER, you can open up your MacMini and upgrade ram, HDD, etc. and they are cool with that.
Why I don't really know. It's a shame too, because I have my whole little set of tools and ArcticSilver 5 plus cleaner and solvent ready to go. Perhaps if everyone sends in the MBP for repair on this issue they will allow individuals to fix their own machines to reduce the load? Doubtfull.

Mr. PurplePirate,
I again must disagree with you. As far as apple is concerned this modification (not "opening the case") voids the warranty. As per the terms and conditions of said warranty they have final say.
All that being the case even if this ONLY voids say the logic board warranty, yea still no thanks.
Also your analogy is incorrect:
Tere is a good bit of established case law on this topic, especially from auto manufacturers attempting to deny warranty claims because of aftermarket modifications to their cars, however, just as with computers, the manufacturer must demonstrate that the particular modification caused the failed or defective product.
Do you think apple is going to take the time to demonstrate that fixing the thermal paste isnt what damaged your CPU 8 months later? Or that the fact the heat is now dissapating differently inside of your case than as designed (yes the gobs are to design spec) that the DVD rom, or RAM, or Hard Drive failing couln't have been caused by that? No, they arent. They are going to say item (e) says you cant change design, well you did. Tough.
Also unlike a car say that after your fix the CPU fails. You cant just gob on the paste then send it back in for repair and have them be all ahh okay now theres thermal paste to spec, lets fix this. No.
Trust me I have been dealing with this individual at apple for a few months now on various items, he knows what he is talking about, and he knows what resouces to check.
I honestly don't care what others do to their machines. I for one am not going to make any changes w/out written permission from Apple or have Apple resolve the problem themself. This machine is too critical to me, my education, and my business flat out. Yes it gets hot as ****, but it works and if the current design end up burning out the CPU in a year and a half, the warranty is there and they have to fix it.

Thermal paste reapplication - myths and facts

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