Thermal Throttling is killing me

I built my first p4 system (neo2 pls 3.0e AIW 9800 2x256pc4000) and so far am very happy with it exept that the prescott thermal trottling is kicking in at around 50c and killing my performance. Im used to how the thermal trottling works in amd64 but I not sure if its any different in prescott. Heres an example of my problems...
At stock speeds and vcore my system scores around 9000 mips in sandra arithmatic if I overclock to 3.5 ghz and up the vcore to 1.45 with load temps UNDER 50c I will score around 10300 in sandra arithmatic. If I overclock to 3.75 (which is stable @ 1.55 vcore) my load temps go to around 60 and my sandra scores will fluctuate, if the room is cold and the cpu is cold I maight be able to squeeze out a 10500 sandra score but if the cpu is warm when I run the test I will only score around 7500. Im assuming this is the thermal throttling but why is it kicking it at over 50c this seems like a reasonable temp. I would understand it if did this at 70c but 50 is still low. HOW CAN I DISABLE THERMAL THROTTLING???
i GET SIMALAR RESULTS IN 3DMARKS2001 and superpi

balewolf, See my signature for some ideas on how to cool the CPU down
But....
More important is the fact that running 1.55 vcore thru a Prescott is a sure what to end up with an expensive paperweight.
Do you really need to go that high to get a stable overclock? My 2.8 E will run stable at 3.61 using the stock Vcore ( 1.36 -1.40)
A prescott employes what is called Dynamic VID .In a nutshell Dynamic VID throttles the Vcore up or down according to the load on the cpu and heat being produced.
The danger of running 1.55 is that you are on the high limit of what this chip can take and if Dyanamic VID kicks in it could fry your chip.
MSI chose to lock down the Vcore in some of the boards because of this .
You can read about it here
Prescott Dangerous Tweaks
You can read more about Dynamic VID here if you like
Dynamic VID explained
Your scores might be low because the Dynamic VID is trying to keep your chip from frying itself
Hope this helps
Dave

Similar Messages

Thermal Throttle in Prescott, broken or BIOS?

So the heatproblem with the LGA775 is a never ending story, so Ive learned, but Ive started to think MSI is not putting a lot of money into the BIOS team.
Heres a story: So I have this sig below, and I really wanted to overclock it a bit. I overclocked the x600 fairly easly, and thats GREAT..... Yes..... Now im seeing a 6-8 fps increase in HL2 and FarCry, of course using the 4.12b from ATI.
Prescotts are supposed to have something called thermal throttling (say it fast 5 times) and its supposed to throttle DOWN the CPU when it gets to hot. Now theres a program called Throttlewatch which lets you check that out.
I wanted to see how good my Retail heatsink+fan worked under real pressure. I ran Prime95, did a defragment, PCmark04, and little tool called CPU burn-in all at the same time.
Strangly when I used only Prime95 the CPU was stuck at 45-55% useage and it didnt go any higher.
With Prime95 after 2 hours I got CPU temp: 73°C (Thermal Protection supposed to kick in at 76 i think)
And then I ran the other setup, and got these CPU temps: 78°C!!!!! :angryfire:and still no throttling......
The temps were read from Speedfan v.4.18, and as far as I know the BIOS reading is always 2-3°C higher than speedfan(at least in my 925X), so the BIOS reading was at 80-81°C, and thats not good.
Either I have a bad CPU, or the BIOS is REALLY, REALLY off......
What do you think????

Quote
Originally posted by olabe
I have same problem. The CPU does not throttle down due to heat even though the bios/speedfan are showing ridiculously high numbers ....
I posted a thread on this subject but i was told i was a trouble maker and the thread was closed down.
I know of SO many other 925x owners who have the exact same problem.
Consculsion MSI should fix this silly bios. It can't be the CPU
Here is the thread I mentioned :
CAN MSI COME CLEAN ?? 925x heat problem
No you come on FORUM high and mighty, not reading help or suggestions...........
INTEL supply the chipset spex............. ASK INTEL why the hell this is happening???
Bioses are programmed to Intel spex. (There are limits set for stable performance)
olabe you are a WHINGER/SOFTARSE user, you do not wish to have help. Just MOAN MOAN etc etc..........
Just send the mainboard back and use another manufacturer.... (Qtec and Asrock would be nice)
I was anger thread was closed, as I couldn't say above before!!!
Del UK

SatPro A60 can hardly run at 2.8GHz since Thermal Throttling issue

Hey guys, a nightmare for A60, its CPU clock can hardly run at 2800MHz which it's supposed to, since the A60's 75? Thermal Throttling Deadline is too easy to reach.
By using utilities called RightMard CPU Clock and Mobilemeter , I found that A60's entry temprature to Thermal Throttling was 75?. When that temperature is reached, cpu clock would slow down to 1500 MHz (you cannot see this by using normal test program, because Throttling is like cheating...i.e force CPU to halt for sometime in order to prevent overheating), and when temperature go back under 70?, it will return 2800 MHz. Another deadline: the auto-shutdown temperature is 85? for A60.
Althought the temperature which Mobilemeter got is the temperature of the heat sink, not the CPU kernel, it seems that oshiba made this 75? deadline too low (Intel's default deadline is likely about 90?). Additionally, with the badly designed heating sink system, the temperature usually keeps above 70-80 ? with room temperatur 15? and only doing some basic word processing or browsing and also with the machine almost dust-free. All of these mean that the laptop can hardly run at 2.8GHz. You can never enjoy that speed in any graphic game.
The actual clock must be test use RightMark Clock, it can test whether CPU is forced to halt frequently due to Thermal Throttling. Anyone wants to do this experiment can download these two free software from:
RMC(177Kb):
http://cpu.rightmark.org/download/rmclock_18_bin.rar
Mobilemeter(40Kb):
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Oakland/8259/release/0310/mm0310.zip
along with SuperPI, which can make the CPU temperature as high as you like by opening it serval times at the same time
http://ftp15.enet.com.cn:88/pub/system/sysanaly/superpi-8.zip
Finally, my original idea to write such topic here is not only telling a truth, but also that I want Toshiba people could do something on this issue, either make an updated bios to allow turn Thermal Throttling off, or make the deadline for it higher than just 75? ,
like you did on satellite 1805's bios updating last time:
Version 2.10 09-24-2002
A modification was made to allow BIOS alone to enable and disable CPU throttling during Windows 98SE operation.
Give the original CPU speed back, because that's the only reason I and some other people chose this machine.

Hi Al
Well, I dont know if you have experience in the notebook technology but the warmness is a known issue on all notebooks. Its a fact that all parts (Cpu, graphic card, etc.) in the unit produce a lot of warmness and its very difficult to cool all this parts because there is no place. You can not compare the notebook and desktop PC!
Furthermore to protect from overheating the CPU has an internal temperature sensor. (You have to know this) If the computers internal temperature rises to a certain level, the cooling fan is turned on or the processing speed is lowered. You can select whether to control the CPU temperature by tuning on the fan first, then if necessary, lowering the CPU speed.
Or, by lowering the CPU speed first, then if necessary, turning on the fan. You can use the Cooling Method item of the Basic tab in Toshiba Power Saver.
These are the special features:
Maximum Performance: Turn on fan first, then if necessary lowers CPU processing speed.
Performance: Uses a combination of fan and lowering the CPU processing speed.
Battery optimized: Lowers the CPU processing speed first, then if necessary turns on the fan.
Furthermore if the CPU temperature reaches an unacceptably high level with either setting, the system automatically shuts down to prevent damage.
Hope this description can explain this issue.
Best regards

980TI G6 Gaming is running very hot and thermal throttling

So I've been stability testing my new 980TI G6 Gaming and it performs okay but man is it hot. I think there's an issue with the GPU not making good contact with the heatsink, maybe uneven thermal paste, because after about 10 minutes it gets up to over...

I have been looking into MSI, and I would like to get one of their notebooks, however I am unsure of which one to buy given the large variety of models they have.
What would others recommend I get?
I am aiming to spend under 2500 for my computer, and i...

Portege R500 - CPU never goes beyond 50% (throttle)

My Portege R500 has a C2D U7700 processor, which is always operating at half it's maximum speed. And when I say always, I mean that CPU load makes no difference, battery/AC-power makes no difference, and power plan also makes no difference.
Note that I am not talking about P-states! The processor goes to 1,33GHz when I expect it to. I'm also NOT talking about the thermal throttle, because the cpu is not overheating at all. I'm talking about the *normal power saving throttle*.
How do I know this?
Well, I turned out that this CPU is actually slower than a Atom N270. That couldn't be true, so I went to investigate. I downloaded [RMclock|http://cpu.rightmark.org/download.shtml] and noticed that the throttle never goes higher than 50%. RMclock can also forcibly disable the throttle, and then YES my laptop is literally twice as fast (which can be seen in any CPU benchmark). But after 10 seconds or so, the throttle is back and the laptop is back to half it's maximum speed.
Alright, here's what I've tried so far:
1) In HWSetup, set Dynamic CPU Frequency Mode to "Always High". No change.
2) In Vista, enable "High performance" power plan and max out the "CPU power management" option in advnaced options. No change.
3) In RMclock, set the profile to *only* use the throttle state of 100%. No change.
4) In RMclock, disable the C1E instruction. No change.
So. How do I get the throttle to operate and 100% when I need it to? Otherwise I could have bought an Atom-based netbook just as well :(
Please help :)

Hi!
I agree with Ivan25. It would be interesting to know if you use the factory settings. I mean a preinstalled Windows version with all drivers and tools from Toshiba. This is recommended to make sure that all works perfect on the notebook.
Have you checked the CPU throttle only with RMclock or with task manager too?
Try to load the default settings in BIOS and check it again.
Bye

Overclocking tips please

have a 3500+, 1 gig of pqi turbo 3200(2,2,2,5), raid 0 raptor hard drives,430 watt true power supply, ati 9800 xt, bios version 1.3.........i cant get the system to overclock much, it seems to only be stable at 225 fsb with ht x4 and multiplier at x11,agp is set at 67, i have the timing settings for the ram at 2.5,3,3,5,2t with 2.65v and cpu 225fsb with 1.55v with cooler master heat sink. i have the aggressive time settings for the memory in the bios on enable.........i keep on getting freezes and i have to manually turn off the computer when i try to go over 225, i've tried more vcore voltage, more relaxed timings for the ram, more voltage for the ram, aggressive timings on disable, ht x3, nothing will let me overclock more and be stable. i know this setup is capable of running faster but i think i have it configured wrong................please help!!!!!!!!

JER101 gives sound advice. I think just by the sound of things that the limiting factor in your overclock is your memory. If you want to know how to determine your limiting factor in your overclock, read this:
Disclaimer:
I do not know everything. I do not consider myself knowledgable. I believe the knowledgable ones are those that design the hardware and us enduser's are mere peons. This guide is a combination of personal knowledge coupled mainly with knowledge from those smarter than myself. My intent here is not to plagerize. I intend to relay knowledge in the fashion which I obtained it -- free of cost. If I'm plagerizing, I apoligze, my intentions were not to cheat someone out of their findings. If you find anything in this sticky that looks like one of your findings then please notify me and I will be happy to give you credit where credit's due.
Now that we've covered all the bases, what should you keep in mind:
CPU manufacturers do not make different processors -- they make one and test it at the highest speed possible. This may be the case with each different core/design but I'm can't say for sure (I don't know all the details, I do not work for a CPU manufacturer, I only know what I'm told). What I do know, however, is that they test the chip at the maximum supported frequency (for a barton processor that would be 2.33ghz (166x14).). If that frequency yields an unacceptable rate of failure then they the slow the processor down to the next fastest frequency (in the case of a barton that would be 2.2ghz (200x12).). After slowing the processor down, they run the tests again and if it passes with an acceptable rate of failure then they stamp it at that speed. However, if it fails, they slow the processor down again to it's next slowest frequency (2.15ghz (166x13).). and then they repeat the process until they achieve an acceptable rate of failure/success. Therefore, if you think about it, your processor wasn’t designed to run any faster than it was rated for, otherwise it would have been stamped at a higher clock frequency (unless of course your processor has the highest possible stamping for that line of products). Why should you keep this in mind? If you hit a wall when overclocking and your CPU is the culprit, it may just be the case that the CPU cannot stabilize itself at a higher frequency (meaning your current highest stable frequency is the max stable frequency).
As you have noticed, VCore and cooling play a crucial role in acheiving the highest stable overclock. You always want the least amount of VCore running through the chip becuase this limits electromigration (which decreases chip life) and it will keep the processor cooler (which increases chip life). When overclocking, it may seem easiest to raise the VCore to some arbitrarily high number that you know will work regardless of which settings you pick but I wouldn’t recommend doing it like that. I recommend starting out at the stock VCore and bumping it up one step at a time, incramenting the VCore from the first lowest VCore, to the second lowest VCore, to the third lowest VCore, etc, etc, etc, until you can stabilize your computer with whatever VCore you've reached. Cooling plays a crucial role because sometimes you cannot use a designated VCore with an insufficent means of cooling. If you can't run prime95 without errors at one VCore but you can at another (but the problem is the computer shuts off after a couple of seconds into the run) then chances are the temperatures rose too high and the thermal throttling diode kicked in and shut down the computer. An aftermarket means of cooling whether it be a good HSF or a good watercooling kit will help you keep your load temps down, jumps in temperature will be less severe and less frequent, and idle temps will drop as well. Therefore when overclocking, you should consider a motherboard that has a wide range of VCore options available and a means of cooling that can take that much VCore (for those of you who are wondering it's possible to calculate whether or not your selected means of cooling will be sufficent enough to dissapate the estimated amount of power your processor requires).
What else do you need to know:
When it comes to overclocking there are a lot of factors to consider. First and foremost is no two computer components are alike; just because one person with the same components as you got to a certain point does not mean you will get there. Next, when overclocking, more often than not you need to raise the Vcore when you raise your CPU frequency higher than stock. This was not the case for my winchester as I could hit 2500mhz (stock being 2000mhz) and I could do this without a bump in VCore (and it was superpi, 3dmark, pcmark, prime95 stable). Lets just say I couldn't hit 2500mhz, me personally, I would be happy with 2200mhz because I didn't have to raise my VCore (which in turn theoretically decreases chip life -- this is also coming from a guy who’s running his computer at 2750mhz with an unspoken VCore so I’ll let you weigh that last statement yourself).
What process do I follow when overclocking:
When overclocking there is a process you must follow, this process will help you determine the limiting factor in your overclock. Note that I do not condone raising voltages higher than stock but you can do it at your own discression but we are all xtreme here and so there's no doubt in my mind that most of you will take this with a grain of salt. One thing to consider when buying parts is which memory module/s you're going to use. When I bought my computer, I had overclocking in mind and I bought PC4400 memory. Why would you want to buy memory that supports a higher FSB? PC4400 stands for the bandwidth of the memory (therefore PC4400 memory transmits data at 4.4GB/s as opposed to PC3200 which transmits data at 3.2GB/s -- you can see why someone would want higher frequency memory). FYI: If you're worried you may not be able to run your memory at it's rated speed if it's not PC3200, you can always keep it's rated timings (which are usually slower than PC3200) and lower the frequency to 200mhz (memory always runs at lower frequencies). If you've already purchased your components and you did not consider higher memory bandwidth at the time then you're forced to use your PC3200, PC2700, or PC2100 memory (most computers now a days require PC3200 memory) then you're going to use dividers. Dividers can also be used when your processor can go further but your memory can't (ie. you have a 3200+ A64 (locked max multiplier of 10) and you want to acheive more than 2500mhz with your 250mhz ram, you would put your memory on a divider and you would raise the FSB higher than 250 keeping your 10 mulitplier. This would keep your ram within specifications (it may not run at 250 but it will run higher than 200 (which is better than nothing) and your processor would go higher than 2500mhz).
Now that you've picked the right memory, what do you do:
First you raise your FSB to match your memory's stock FSB (pc3200 @ 200mhz FSB or pc4000 @ 250mhz FSB). Simultaneously, you lower your mutliplier so that your CPU frequency is now lower than stock (stock is 2000mhz so your new frequency is ~1600mhz (200x8 or 250x6). This omits your processor from the equation's list of potential problems because the CPU was designed to run at a higher frequency with your current (stock) VCore. Now that you've successfully set your FSB and lowered your multiplier so that your current CPU frequency <= stock CPU frequency, you would run memtest86+ for two entire days to ensure your memory is no longer going to be considered a limiting factor in your overclock. Memtest will help ensure that your memory is not the reason for your overclocking problems.
Quote
originally written by eva2000
memtest ain't 100% but you can use memtest to guage the max possible FSB/MEM which is the top limit of what you can expect... since i don't think i've ever experienced windows 100% stability and error free at a speed higher than the highest memtest passable speed
therefore
max FSB/MEM speed (100% windows error free/stability) <= max FSB/MEM speed (memtest error free)
My experiences and testing methods
test #1 - 4
are cpu fsb speed and or vcore related (meaning lowering fsb or increasing vcore saw errors in these tests disappear)
test #5
prior to 865/875 boards - memory speed, timings and vdimm related (meaning altering mem speed, timings and/or vdimm saw errors in this test disappear)
test#6
with 865/875 boards bigtoe has said related to cycle time (tras) in cpuz which i sort of confirmed with my current testing
note: prior to 865/875 boards, i've never had memory errors in test #6 only since these new boards have i experienced test #6 errors
test #7
not sure very rarely have i experienced errors
extended test
test #8 is a more intensive version of test #5
most memory related errors pop up at test #5 hence i like looping test #5 for memory testing for 12-24hrs after 1-4hr general standard loop of test #1-7
i like to loop test #3 and/or #4 for cpu related issues
I follow it up with at least goldmem 5.07:
2 quick test loops
+
2-4 full standard loops <-- can take forever trying doing it with 4 x 512mb xms3200c2
to loop a particular test
Note: if you decide to overclock your memory (pc3200 @ 225 FSB) then you will probably need to raise your VDimm and/or retard your memory timings (the ram you buy will determine which of the two you will end up doing). Ultimately you will be the judge as to what's acceptable and what's not. You can and should always record your results and test each of them with benchmarking ultilities so you know that your getting the most performance (in other words, a small gain in FSB with very laxidazical memory timings may yield worse benchmarks than a slightly slower FSB with tight timings). Now that you know this, raise your FSB in incraments of 5 mhz. test as specified and raise again. when you get an error you can back down 5 mhz and live with that, and/or raise VDimm and try again, and/or retard the timings and try again. When error time comes, you will be the judge of this.
Note: I got my DDR333 memory (166mhz) to run successfully at DDR374 (187mhz) with a change in timings of 2-2-2-5 to 2-2-2-11. The processor would not boot with a 200mhz FSB (in order to do so I would have to close a bridge and I was not willing to mod the customer's processor) but had I modded the processor I honestly believe I could have gotten the DDR333 memory to run at DDR400 speed with the right timings.[/SIZE]
Now what:
Now that you've reached a stable FSB that your memory can handle, begin to raise your multiplier. Try and pick a frequency that's <= stock frequency this way you don't need to experiment with Vcore just yet. Once this runs prime95 at priority 10 with inplace FFTs for days with no errors you can raise your multiplier. Raise it one notch at a time, recording your results with benchmarking tools to ensure your getting the most performance with each change that you make. If you run into errors, raise the Vcore and try again. Make sure to monitor the temperatures when using prime95, you don't want to kill your processor with too much heat. You will either find a sucessful outcome or you won't. Successful outcomes are higher CPU frequency that's prime95 stable with or without a bump in VCore. Unsuccessful outcomes are prime95 instability with or without a bump in VCore or prime95 stability with/without a bump in VCore but temperature problems forced you to end the test prematurely.
If you follow these steps you will know why your computer won't overclock anymore -- whether it be ram (timings), ram (FSB), ram (voltage), temperatures, cpu (multiplier), cpu (voltage), etc, etc, etc...
Note: if you want to test just your processor in prime95 and take the memory out of the equation (or take as much of the memory out of the equation as possible) then you would run a prime95 tortue test called "Small FTT's".
When I get the time, I will add certain components I have experience with into this sticky and my suggestions as to what parts you should purchase with them and what parts you should stay away from.[/FONT]

[Athlon64] Over Clocking?

whats the max you can overclock theres mobos i get 220 x 10 afterthat it freezes and gets choppy is there somethin i can do to make it faster? overcloc,upgrade just tell me i gots a tiger direct account so i can do more upgrading

Disclaimer:
I do not know everything. I do not consider myself knowledgable. I believe the knowledgable ones are those that design the hardware and us enduser's are mere peons. This guide is a combination of personal knowledge coupled mainly with knowledge from those smarter than myself. My intent here is not to plagerize. I intend to relay knowledge in the fashion which I obtained it -- free of cost. If I'm plagerizing, I apoligze, my intentions were not to cheat someone out of their findings. If you find anything in this sticky that looks like one of your findings then please notify me and I will be happy to give you credit where credit's due.
Now that we've covered all the bases, what should you keep in mind:
CPU manufacturers do not make different processors -- they make one and test it at the highest speed possible. This may be the case with each different core/design but I'm can't say for sure (I don't know all the details, I do not work for a CPU manufacturer, I only know what I'm told). What I do know, however, is that they test the chip at the maximum supported frequency (for a barton processor that would be 2.33ghz (166x14).). If that frequency yields an unacceptable rate of failure then they the slow the processor down to the next fastest frequency (in the case of a barton that would be 2.2ghz (200x12).). After slowing the processor down, they run the tests again and if it passes with an acceptable rate of failure then they stamp it at that speed. However, if it fails, they slow the processor down again to it's next slowest frequency (2.15ghz (166x13).). and then they repeat the process until they achieve an acceptable rate of failure/success. Therefore, if you think about it, your processor wasn’t designed to run any faster than it was rated for, otherwise it would have been stamped at a higher clock frequency (unless of course your processor has the highest possible stamping for that line of products). Why should you keep this in mind? If you hit a wall when overclocking and your CPU is the culprit, it may just be the case that the CPU cannot stabilize itself at a higher frequency (meaning your current highest stable frequency is the max stable frequency).
As you have noticed, VCore and cooling play a crucial role in acheiving the highest stable overclock. You always want the least amount of VCore running through the chip becuase this limits electromigration (which decreases chip life) and it will keep the processor cooler (which increases chip life). When overclocking, it may seem easiest to raise the VCore to some arbitrarily high number that you know will work regardless of which settings you pick but I wouldn’t recommend doing it like that. I recommend starting out at the stock VCore and bumping it up one step at a time, incramenting the VCore from the first lowest VCore, to the second lowest VCore, to the third lowest VCore, etc, etc, etc, until you can stabilize your computer with whatever VCore you've reached. Cooling plays a crucial role because sometimes you cannot use a designated VCore with an insufficent means of cooling. If you can't run prime95 without errors at one VCore but you can at another (but the problem is the computer shuts off after a couple of seconds into the run) then chances are the temperatures rose too high and the thermal throttling diode kicked in and shut down the computer. An aftermarket means of cooling whether it be a good HSF or a good watercooling kit will help you keep your load temps down, jumps in temperature will be less severe and less frequent, and idle temps will drop as well. Therefore when overclocking, you should consider a motherboard that has a wide range of VCore options available and a means of cooling that can take that much VCore (for those of you who are wondering it's possible to calculate whether or not your selected means of cooling will be sufficent enough to dissapate the estimated amount of power your processor requires).
What else do you need to know:
When it comes to overclocking there are a lot of factors to consider. First and foremost is no two computer components are alike; just because one person with the same components as you got to a certain point does not mean you will get there. Next, when overclocking, more often than not you need to raise the Vcore when you raise your CPU frequency higher than stock. This was not the case for my winchester as I could hit 2500mhz (stock being 2000mhz) and I could do this without a bump in VCore (and it was superpi, 3dmark, pcmark, prime95 stable). Lets just say I couldn't hit 2500mhz, me personally, I would be happy with 2200mhz because I didn't have to raise my VCore (which in turn theoretically decreases chip life -- this is also coming from a guy who’s running his computer at 2750mhz with an unspoken VCore so I’ll let you weigh that last statement yourself).
What process do I follow when overclocking:
When overclocking there is a process you must follow, this process will help you determine the limiting factor in your overclock. Note that I do not condone raising voltages higher than stock but you can do it at your own discression but we are all xtreme here and so there's no doubt in my mind that most of you will take this with a grain of salt. One thing to consider when buying parts is which memory module/s you're going to use. When I bought my computer, I had overclocking in mind and I bought PC4400 memory. Why would you want to buy memory that supports a higher FSB? PC4400 stands for the bandwidth of the memory (therefore PC4400 memory transmits data at 4.4GB/s as opposed to PC3200 which transmits data at 3.2GB/s -- you can see why someone would want higher frequency memory). FYI: If you're worried you may not be able to run your memory at it's rated speed if it's not PC3200, you can always keep it's rated timings (which are usually slower than PC3200) and lower the frequency to 200mhz (memory always runs at lower frequencies). If you've already purchased your components and you did not consider higher memory bandwidth at the time then you're forced to use your PC3200, PC2700, or PC2100 memory (most computers now a days require PC3200 memory) then you're going to use dividers. Dividers can also be used when your processor can go further but your memory can't (ie. you have a 3200+ A64 (locked max multiplier of 10) and you want to acheive more than 2500mhz with your 250mhz ram, you would put your memory on a divider and you would raise the FSB higher than 250 keeping your 10 mulitplier. This would keep your ram within specifications (it may not run at 250 but it will run higher than 200 (which is better than nothing) and your processor would go higher than 2500mhz).
Now that you've picked the right memory, what do you do:
First you raise your FSB to match your memory's stock FSB (pc3200 @ 200mhz FSB or pc4000 @ 250mhz FSB). Simultaneously, you lower your mutliplier so that your CPU frequency is now lower than stock (stock is 2000mhz so your new frequency is ~1600mhz (200x8 or 250x6). This omits your processor from the equation's list of potential problems because the CPU was designed to run at a higher frequency with your current (stock) VCore. Now that you've successfully set your FSB and lowered your multiplier so that your current CPU frequency <= stock CPU frequency, you would run memtest86+ for two entire days to ensure your memory is no longer going to be considered a limiting factor in your overclock. Memtest will help ensure that your memory is not the reason for your overclocking problems.
Quote
originally written by eva2000
memtest ain't 100% but you can use memtest to guage the max possible FSB/MEM which is the top limit of what you can expect... since i don't think i've ever experienced windows 100% stability and error free at a speed higher than the highest memtest passable speed
therefore
max FSB/MEM speed (100% windows error free/stability) <= max FSB/MEM speed (memtest error free)
My experiences and testing methods
test #1 - 4
are cpu fsb speed and or vcore related (meaning lowering fsb or increasing vcore saw errors in these tests disappear)
test #5
prior to 865/875 boards - memory speed, timings and vdimm related (meaning altering mem speed, timings and/or vdimm saw errors in this test disappear)
test#6
with 865/875 boards bigtoe has said related to cycle time (tras) in cpuz which i sort of confirmed with my current testing
note: prior to 865/875 boards, i've never had memory errors in test #6 only since these new boards have i experienced test #6 errors
test #7
not sure very rarely have i experienced errors
extended test
test #8 is a more intensive version of test #5
most memory related errors pop up at test #5 hence i like looping test #5 for memory testing for 12-24hrs after 1-4hr general standard loop of test #1-7
i like to loop test #3 and/or #4 for cpu related issues
I follow it up with at least goldmem 5.07:
2 quick test loops
+
2-4 full standard loops <-- can take forever trying doing it with 4 x 512mb xms3200c2
to loop a particular test
Note: if you decide to overclock your memory (pc3200 @ 225 FSB) then you will probably need to raise your VDimm and/or retard your memory timings (the ram you buy will determine which of the two you will end up doing). Ultimately you will be the judge as to what's acceptable and what's not. You can and should always record your results and test each of them with benchmarking ultilities so you know that your getting the most performance (in other words, a small gain in FSB with very laxidazical memory timings may yield worse benchmarks than a slightly slower FSB with tight timings). Now that you know this, raise your FSB in incraments of 5 mhz. test as specified and raise again. when you get an error you can back down 5 mhz and live with that, and/or raise VDimm and try again, and/or retard the timings and try again. When error time comes, you will be the judge of this.
Note: I got my DDR333 memory (166mhz) to run successfully at DDR374 (187mhz) with a change in timings of 2-2-2-5 to 2-2-2-11. The processor would not boot with a 200mhz FSB (in order to do so I would have to close a bridge and I was not willing to mod the customer's processor) but had I modded the processor I honestly believe I could have gotten the DDR333 memory to run at DDR400 speed with the right timings.[/SIZE]
Now what:
Now that you've reached a stable FSB that your memory can handle, begin to raise your multiplier. Try and pick a frequency that's <= stock frequency this way you don't need to experiment with Vcore just yet. Once this runs prime95 at priority 10 with inplace FFTs for days with no errors you can raise your multiplier. Raise it one notch at a time, recording your results with benchmarking tools to ensure your getting the most performance with each change that you make. If you run into errors, raise the Vcore and try again. Make sure to monitor the temperatures when using prime95, you don't want to kill your processor with too much heat. You will either find a sucessful outcome or you won't. Successful outcomes are higher CPU frequency that's prime95 stable with or without a bump in VCore. Unsuccessful outcomes are prime95 instability with or without a bump in VCore or prime95 stability with/without a bump in VCore but temperature problems forced you to end the test prematurely.
If you follow these steps you will know why your computer won't overclock anymore -- whether it be ram (timings), ram (FSB), ram (voltage), temperatures, cpu (multiplier), cpu (voltage), etc, etc, etc...
Note: if you want to test just your processor in prime95 and take the memory out of the equation (or take as much of the memory out of the equation as possible) then you would run a prime95 tortue test called "Small FTT's".
When I get the time, I will add certain components I have experience with into this sticky and my suggestions as to what parts you should purchase with them and what parts you should stay away from.[/FONT]

P965 Neo temp issues

Hi I'm really happy with my board, no problems yet Thankfully, also had a great installation, of windows vista RTM, and windows xp. But the rare issue i have is that my e6400 at stock, speed and with stock hsf, makes like 41c temp. this have been happening with the new 1.6 Bios release. any one have an idea why, and also my is always at low rpm, like 1300 or so, thanks.
and also, why Vcore voltage is so unstable, it move from 1.18 to 132v any ideas.??

I did some thermal throttling tests.
E6400 @ 2.130mhz (stock)
MSI P965 Neo-f (bios 1.6b13)
Speedfan 4.32 Beta 8
Stresstest & Rightmark CPU clock utility from www.rightmark.com i think. if not that try google
At first I tried to set fan running at minimum speed. Well it was cooling too much and I could not hit over 67C.
So I obviously had to disconnect the CPU fan.
After that temperatures started to rise. At 83C thermal throttle started up. I dunno why the hell the threshold is so high, and I dunno if it can be changed with some program, didn't find any settings from rightmark cpu clock utility.
http://koti.mbnet.fi/~prc/temp/TM1.JPG
Picture 2 shows that temp readings are lost while cpu is throttling and stresstest is running. I guess this is because most CPU cycles are used for cooling CPU, not doing much work.
http://koti.mbnet.fi/~prc/temp/TM2.JPG
Well I continued this for a while, what a heck this box has still warranty left
Picture 3 shows that thermal throttle is able to keep Core temps about 82C without fan running. Obviously stresstest + thermal throttle was reason for losing CPU temp readings, as seen in picture 3 temp readings came back after stopping stresstest.
http://koti.mbnet.fi/~prc/temp/TM3.JPG
I killed the stresstest, but left CPU fan disconnected. I can again see the temperatures. Its 82C.
At this point my computer still works without any problems.
Well I connect my CPU fan back. And temps starts to decrease fast, after going below 80C thermal throttle was disabled. It "saved" my CPU. BUT!
Now I get report from windows that my RAID1 device is broken, one of the HDD's goes missing. HMMMM?. (to note im running temporarily software RAID1 on Jmicron connected IDE hdds).
Well I decide to reboot my computer, Windows shutdowns normally. At post first everything seems ok, my SCSI card finds both my HDDs etc etc. Then comes Jmicron's turn to find HDDs, it just freezes there. Hmm interesting, did I broke my mobo??
I try reset button, again same thing.. $hit !!!.
I shutdown the computer, and turn on again and everything works again. OMG
So before someone tells how to set different threshold for cpu throttling it might work, but at least my p965 neo-f doesnt like it. My guess is that the North Bridge is overheating as there is almost no airflow there, without cpu fan running. (There would be airflow from my computer case coolers, but I did it case open, and my fans are attached to the opening side panel, so the werent blowing in the case atm).
But atleast 70-80C should be safe temps for the cpu.

Excite Pro AT10LE-A - update situation

Hello
I was wondering about the update situation for the Toshiba Excite Pro.
_Specifically:_
- is there going to be an update to Android 4.3 or 4.4? After all, this is a premium segment tablet, and I would expect the usual level of support. Other manufacturer usually release one or two updates.
- is miracast still coming? It was promised at release, but then it got quiet about it.
- has the thermal throttling problem finally been fixed? Again this isn't rocket science, every other manufacturer seems to be able to produce tablets that work without overheating.
- is there ever going to be a way to root it or unlock the boot loader?
I am sorry if that sounds critical, but given the reviews I had read, I think these questions are extremely relevant.

http://forums.toshiba.com/t5/Excite-Tablets/Excite-Pro-Android-system-update-4-3-001120219-01/td-p/508477
+We are pleased to announce a new Android system 4.3.001120219.01 image update for your Excite Pro tablet. This release will provide performance enhancements to your device. Toshiba encourages you download and install this update.+
+Release 4.3.001120219.01 Highlights:+
+Support Android 4.3+
+Miracast certified for wireless display+
+Added video stabilization recording feature for rear camera+
+Improved image stabilization for rear camera+
+TruCapture app: improved photo capture accuracy and enhancement+
+You can update your system software by any of the following methods:+
+Tap on the update message sent by the Toshiba Service Station application to your device, or:+
+From the Home screen, tap on the Apps icon in the upper right corner. Locate the Service Station icon and application. Tap Check for Updates and follow the steps.+
Anybody here received this yet? Looks like it's only a matter of time. :)

X220 complete fan failure

I've had my X220 for about a year now. At first, I didn't experience any problems with the fan, no revving up/down like some describe, and it was pretty quiet.
After about 9 months of usage, the fan started to get pretty noisy. As I also usually have a room fan always on, I didn't care much because the room fan overpowered the laptop fan.
Then, at about 10 months ago, one fine day CoreTemp pops up a message that my CPU temp is critical, I was just watching a movie with no background stuff going on. I've checked TPFanControl and the fan wasn't running. It was also not responding to TPFanControl's smart or manual modes.
I turned off the laptop, removed the keyboard and powered it on again. The fan would spin a few revs at pretty low speed, then just stop. I allowed the system to boot like that, and tried to start the fan with TPFanControl's manual mode. When I switched the fan from speed 0 to any other speed, I could see the fan blades to move just a little bit (maybe 1mm) and then stop again.
The laptop is on warranty, but I bought it in USA, and I live in Thailand now. Also this is my primary work computer and I didn't want any unnecessary downtime, so I decided to fix it myself.
I wrote quite a lot, those not interested in the disassembly story, just skip the next paragraph.
Well, luckily I decided not to sell my old Z61m, I booted it up to view the X220 Hardware Maintenance Manual: http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/x220_x220i_hmm_0a60739_06.pdf
Using an old laptop, which one year ago didn't feel slow, after being accustomed to the new one, was really sluggish. Part of the reason might be that I recently installed Windows 7 on it (it's got 4Gb RAM in it, of which the chipset can only use 3Gb). By the way, one time I had my Z61m's fan become really noisy, too (but never fail completely), I did disassemble, clean and oil the fan - and getting to the fan was much easier than on X220.
On X220 to get to the underside of the fan, you have to remove the motherboard, the heatsink assembly is screwed to the motherboard from it's underside. That's wasn't hard for me, but I could easily see messing up some small component. To remove the motherboard, I had to remove the HDD, speakers, bluetooth module, WiFi module, mSATA SSD, disconnect a few flat-ribbon connectors, unclip a few regular connectors, free the wifi antenna cables, video cable from their grooves in the bezel, remove the bezel. And then the motherboad still wouldn't come off - the two nuts holding the VGA connector have to be removed. And when I moved to Thailand, I didn't bring my 5mm hex socket with me. So I had to drive around (I live in a small city), trying to find it. Tool shops, hardware shops, computer shops didn't have it! Well, a tool shop had a huge kit of 1/4" DR tools, I wasn't gonna spend so much money just to get one 5mm socket. In the end I could find a low quality 1/4" DR sockets set in a Tesco supermarket, for $2. But what do you know? The cheap sockets have thick walls, so the wall thickness doesn't allow it to fit around the nut (the laptop's case is in the way). Too bad I don't have a lathe... well here comes the drill to hold the socket and the angle grinder. Finally I was able to unscrew the nuts and take out the motherboard.
To get out the audio connector from it's hole in the case, I have to flex the motherboard quite a lot, I know it's fiberglass and strong, but it does feel quite scary (the narrowest part of the mainboard is just maybe an inch wide).
I then tilted the motherboard up disconnected the power cable (it's a bit tricky, but I think it's the most efficient way - some say to remove the LCD to do that! that's totally unnecessary), took the motherboard out and unscrewed the heatsink/fan assembly.
The fan would turn by hand or by blowing air into it, but wouldn't keep rotating as soon as I stop blowing. The blades are fortunately removable (just grab them and pull), I cleaned them and the insides with some methyl alcohol, let it dry, then put some TriFlow teflon oil in there and put the blades back on. I then put everything back together, and it worked fine. Assembly, as usual, is the reverse of disassembly. The fan works, and is pretty quiet again (I'd say about the same as it was new).
The fan is sleeve bearing. I think it's not a good practice to put sleeve bearing fans into laptops. When a ball bearing fan fails, it just rotates at reduced speed, with plenty of noise and vibration. Giving a lot of warning time that it should be replaced. A sleeve bearing fan can just stop turning completely, not making any noise to indicate failure. It's very fortunate that CPUs (and some other hardware) have automatic overheat protection (thermal throttling). I suppose Lenovo just had some temporary problem sourcing the necessary qty of ball bearing fans when they were producing X220, so they just put in an alternative they could find. I don't think they did this just to save $1 per laptop. In any case, my advices for X220 owners is, if your fan has become noisier than before, open it up and clean/oil it, better now than later. I would only advise this job to people who have straight hands growing from the right place, not from their ass (that's a saying we have in Russia). There is nothing really difficult about this job (first time will take 2-3 hours, with experience you can do the whole job in under 1 hour), but you have to be careful. There are a lot of small parts that can be dropped or damaged by static electricity. There are many screws of different sizes that can be mixed up (my advise is to use a small container with multiple compartments, and put the screws into different compartments, along with a piece of paper saying where does this group of screws go. Have to be very careful disconnecting the connectors, especially the flat ribbon type. No sharp or metal tools should be used for this task! Use only fingernails or something plastic. Also use care to properly align the flat ribbon cables when connecting (locking) them. It's good to take pictures of the whole process, especially things like cable routing. You'll thank yourself for this when putting it back together. The hardware maintenance manual is also pretty useful (might be not so easy to find the right info, though, have to read carefully). Print it or use another computer or a mobile device to access it when doing the job. As noted, you will need a 5mm thin-wall socket (any good quality 1/4" DR socket will be thin wall, while cheap nasty stuff will be thick wall) to unscrew the VGA connector. The nuts are not tight from the factory (at least mine were not), so you might be able to use another tool, but I think even the smallest needle-nose pliers won't fit there, there's really too little room between the nuts and the case. A sturdy tweezers with round ends (or cut off ends) might do the job, but I'm a believer in using a proper tool for a job, at least when talking about a $1000 computer (this is not very Russian of me, where a common tool for automotive repair is often a hammer and a block of wood; a saying goes: if you fail - use a bigger hammer). Obviously you also need a small-size electronics screwdriver.
A thing I had a problem with: the heatsink contacts both CPU and the chipset (which is common in notebooks), there was thermal compound on the CPU and a thermal pad on the chipset (I would say 0.5mm thick). Unfortunately I tore up the pad when removing the heatsink. If you're careful, usually you can reuse the pad. The pad is there for the reason that the CPU and the chipset surfaces are not on the same plane, so if assembled with just a super-thin layer of thermal compound (like you're supposed to for optimal heat conduction), the chipset wouldn't touch the heatsink and would overheat. Since I didn't have a spare thermal pad on hand, I used a thick layer of thermal compound (I used Arctic Silver 5, which is pretty thick consistency and not very likely to flow out of there) on the chipset. I also ordered some thermal pads on eBay, to have it just in case.
I haven't noticed any significant decrease in temperatures with the new thermal compound, even after 200 engine hours the AS5 needs for optimal performance. It might be cooler by a couple of degrees, but not by much.
I'm sorry I deleted the pics I took during disassembly.
Solved!
Go to Solution.

A .5mm layer of thermal paste will not do a very good job of heat conduction. There will be air bubbles. No matter how well you spread out the thermal paste on the CPU die, you will never get the kind of even, thin layer that you get with a new fan, which comes with lots of little dots. BTW, very small needle-nosed pliers work fine to start the VGA nuts. The first time I take a particular model apart, I tape the screws near the place the will go back using "painter's masking tape", which leaves no adhesive residue.

MSI 760GMA-P34 (FX) Problems

Hi i have this is issue. I recently made a new pc and i have a problem from the start. When i run the system and getting into windows the pc will stuck making some noise from speaker and then restarts witout blue screen appearance even if i have check not to automatic restart. The problem occurs at random times but mostly when i go to open a game the system always restarts. I tested all the parts on another computer and everything worked perfect. Please help me thanks in advance. All the components are at their normal clocks nothing overclocked. Used all the latest drivers.
Here are my full pc specs:
Motherboard: MSI 760GMA-P34 (FX)
CPU: AMD FX-8350 4.0GHZ 8-CORE BOX
PSU: THERMALTAKE SPS-630MPCBEU SMART SE SERIES 630W CM 87+ PSU
GPU: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 4GB Battlefield 4 Edition
HDD: SEAGATE ST1000DM003 1TB BARRACUDA 7200.14 SATA3
SSD: CORSAIR CSSD-F128GBGS-BK 128GB 2.5'' SSD SATA3 FORCE GS SERIES
RAM: G.SKILL F3-1600C7D-16GTX 16GB (2X8GB) DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHZ TRIDENTX DUAL CHANNEL KIT

it may work at idle (MSI do not put them at load in test as they only check it works) at load as we have had many reports that they throttle back to 800-1400MHz and report a Temp on the VRMS of 255C that is a automated throttle! <--- the MSI CPU support pages can sometimes be miss-leading as flobelix said its a 95W board and that 125W CPU will cause thermal throttling under load!
as for it not starting and just looping that may be due to a unsupported CPU due to a unsupported BIOS for the CPU so what is the boards BIOS version it has or what is its serial number of the board? <--- if your CPU is a low TDP one that is very good it may work ok but I would suspect even if it is a lower TDP one it may in time degrade and the board will thermal throttle as it will pull more power and overwhelm the board!
you where warned not to try using that CPU by flobelix so as you disregarded that its not surprising that your having a problem immediately using it!

This is quite strange... Fast/Turbo setting.

I had been running my computer on fast mode, and my temps were quite high.. idle at 50-52c...
Someone suggested turning off turbo mode to lower temps, well, since i wasnt using it in the first place.. I turned it on. And well, it lowered my temps. Im pretty confused as to why this is. When i run in turbo mode, the cpu idles at about 42-44c.
Anyone?

all turbo appears to do really is to make sure cpu halt is disengaged..with the older athlon boards, cpu halt enabled was sometimes an issue..if you don't know what cpu halt does, it kind of 'turns down" the cpu when it is not at much load (look at your cpu at next to no load..cpu 1% useage..why have the cpu working full out)..when you leave settings at fast if you have the 1.2 bios, you will notice temps quite a bit lower than when at turbo...i haven't tried overclocking fsb with turbo enabled but now that i know cpu halt exists and how to toggle it on and off..i'm going to:) in the old days with pcr files and wpcredit and wpcrset, we used to wait anxiously for the new file that defined the settings for this..msi has built it in already..just haven't made it obvious..probably because there are those who say it reduces the lifespan of the processor with expansion and contraction of the die on the processor.i disagree..a) i've done this for years on overclocked boards b) everytime you turn on your processor, you can go from cold to hot within 2 minutes if that won't distort the die, the halt function won't..and thermal throttling has been used without issue on pentium chips for years!

Should Enhanced Turbo still work on H87-G43 for non-k i7-4770?

Having a similar issue to the one described here ( https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=172887.msg1258722#msg1258722 ) but this is on a H87-G43 with a non-k i7-4770. The feature used to work fine with all 4 cores going to 3.9 GHz on turbo but, with the stock cooler that I was using, thermal throttling became an issue on high workloads (e.g. AIDA64 stress test, handbrake, etc.).
So, I disabled Enhanced Turbo and I ordered a Hyper 212 Evo which I only recently installed. I turned Enhanced Turbo back on but now it seems that Enhanced Turbo is offering nothing extra over normal turbo with the 4 cores only hitting 3.7 GHz under load and not the 3.9 GHz that they used to reach. Hardware is the same (except the cooler, which has no effect) so I presume that it must be BIOS-related.
I'm running latest v2.5 BIOS for the board and have changed the Core Ratio Limits manually to value of 39 but still no joy. Does anyone else have this issue on H87-G43 with a non-k i7-4770? Can anyone confirm that the feature is working for them with a non-k i7-4770 (or any non-k CPU) on a H87-G43 with this latest v2.5 BIOS?

Ok, so I've done numerous BIOS flashes and here's what I have found:
Rather like the user in this topic ( https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=172887.msg1258722#msg1258722 ), I found that the Enhanced Turbo worked correctly on the H87-G43 and i7-4770 with default Auto settings up to BIOS v2.3 (2013-06-07). The clock multiplier was set to 39 allowing turbo operation at 3.9 GHz on all cores.
With the introduction of BIOS v2.4 (2013-08-16), again similar to the other user, it is necessary to manually set the 1/2/3/4-Core Ratio Limit values (found in the CPU Features sub-menu of the OC Menu) to the value of 39 in order to allow turbo operation at 3.9 GHz on all cores.
Using BIOS v2.5 (2013-09-23), no matter what settings, it does not seem possible to allow turbo operation at 3.9 GHz on all cores with an i7-4770. It would seem the feature has either been accidentally or deliberately disabled in this latest BIOS. I'll raise it directly in a support ticket to MSI and in the meantime I will stay on BIOS v2.4 which is the most recent BIOS that allows me to get the most out of my CPU and new cooler.
Thanks again to xmad for his help and advice. Hopefully this post will save time and effort for other users with similar issues.

Want to reduce your MacBook temperature, remove the battery.

From http://xlr8yourmac.com/
Want to reduce your MacBook temperature, remove the battery.
When we were testing V0.5 of SpeedIt we discover a strange behavior, if we remove the battery of our MacBook the temperature drop because the maximum operational frequency of the CPU become reduce to 1.0 Ghz.
We were investigating more on this, and we found why this happen, the SMC subsystem when battery is not detected, activate the Thermal Trip indicator and the CPU get into Thermal Throttle, reducing the frequency to 1.0 Ghz and minimum voltage.
You will find this and other "hidden features" with the documentation of the upcomming version of SpeedIt.
We decided to published this in advance because a user "no-one" write about this matter on the forums. He is a good tester we'll liek to take him in account . More information on the forums.
Apple Mac Intel SMC Firmware Update
We have been testing the lasted firmware update and the conclusions are:
* The fans run at more revolutions always.
* The Temperature drop more or less between 5 to 10 ºC
* The voltage values of the CPU change.
* The MacBook is cooler but more noise.
* To get into sleep need a minimum of 5 seconds, after
you close your lid.
* Don't put in your bag until you hear that the fan
stop, some times the MacBook don't get into sleep.
More detailed report and data soon.
Direct Link:
http://www.increw.com/thenews/latest_news/want_to_reduce_your_temperature_remove_thebattery..html
William

yeah its pretty ridiculous that an individual pays all that money for a machine that Apple continually trumpet to be better than a PC machine and then it falls down at these niggly little turns.
Other machines, can run at full speed with battery of, no ?
Why is it ridiculous ?
If I use my unit for some hardcore music / video editing sessions, I will take it off the battery so Im not constantly charging / recharging the battery - is that ridiculous ?
Am I going to be pis%£% when my expensive machine, I paid mad dough for is going to perform like a snail as opposed to what it can really - YOU BET !
"Beeing a picky customer is a MUST in this case. I realy don`t understand the people who are trying to protect this company no matter what happens. You HAVE to remember that it is not a privilage for you that you own Mac. It is a privilage FOR Apple that you decided to spend big time money on their products. It is your DUTY to be picky and strict."
MarioPoland - May 2006

Help with a tough decision Apple is forcing me to make.

Hi everyone,
So, like many of you, I have been patiently waiting for about five months now for a Mac Pro refresh. With the newer cpu's, gpu's, and hds out now, I was expecting to have seen them update it by now, but they haven't. They also refuse to announce anything about when they might, in a greedy attempt to get people to pay top dollar for old stock. I need to get a new system for 4k video editing now. When it was first released I was impressed by the value. Building a comparable system cost about the same. This doesn't seem to be the case anymore, and since they haven't upgraded the system, or lowered their prices to compete, I feel like I need to abandon the dream and look else where. Anybody disagree? Is there any reason why the Mac Pro still can compete at a $5,000 price point? If not, any recommendations on what I should get?

It is easy to start with as 4,1 $495 and have 4k and even 5k.
March 6th, 2015 -- 4K SHOOTOUT: Four Macs and Six GPUs with a Dell 5K Display
5K SHOOTOUT: iMac 5K versus Mac Pro tower with Dell 5K display -- both running at 5120x2880
cMP moves further into the future, 5K is here !
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1854914
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1760435&page=4
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1838956
Apple is not interested in Nvidia the way customers are. A Classic Mac Pro instead of trashy 6,1 design is still holding its own and doing better, with affordable 6-core 3.4GHz processors and other add-ons, even dual GPUs (AMD and Nvidia, with help of add'l PSU)
Thermal throttling a workstation GPU or processor under load? Unhead of?
The bottleneck has been with spinning disk drives. Some users have tried using 2 x PCIe SSD controllers using four SSDs to try to create large fast SSD arrays of 2-4TB and 1200-1800MB/sec.
NGFF PCIE SSD
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1685821
- Which basically is using Apple and Samsung PCIe-SSD devices to get 1200MB/sec out of a single device (256GB to 1TB) without controllers, just a PCIe adapter. Funny but even a 2006 1,1 have had this ability in firmware and logicboard all along since 2005 to support these small M.2 form factor devices.
Right now ebay for Apple 500-768-1000GB or an XP941 retail $400-750 (a small 256GB + adapter for $285 900MB/sec to give you a taste).
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J9V53M6/
http://www.amazon.com/Sintech-NGFF-PCIe-SATA-Adapter/dp/B00LM4EPF4/
Processor upgrade options:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1122551
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1854411
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1333421

Thermal Throttling is killing me

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