Wds vs extended network questions

little background first...task is to setup a closed WPA2 wireless network consisting of 4 mac minis (duo cores/10.4.10 fully updated) and 3 or 4 AEBS' on the 5GHz band. One AEBS will be connected via ethernet to an existing router (DHCP) while the others need to extend the network. I've had the masses working exceptionally well as a WDS (main/relay/remote) and as an extended network (main/ext/ext/ext) in a test area but have a few questions i've been unable to find answers to:
1. As an extended network, how many AEBS' can be setup to extend the network? (as bridges)
2. Any way to enable/select the 5GHz band for a WDS setup?
3. All the mini's except for one with Airport Admin 5.1 installed join the network automatically after sleep, shutdown etc. The fix on the support page works but is this issue possibly due to the new airport admin util? I'd like to keep the WPA2 security in place even tho it's a closed network and have a local machine able to administer these things if possible.
cheers for a quick response.

shaker440, Welcome to the discussion area!
1. As an extended network, how many AEBS' can be setup to extend the network? (as bridges)
I'm sure there is a maximum but I don't know the number.
2. Any way to enable/select the 5GHz band for a WDS setup?
WDS is an 802.11b/g feature and therefore not supported when using 5 GHz. However 802.11n has a new "extend network" feature.
I'd like to keep the WPA2 security in place even tho it's a closed network and have a local machine able to administer these things if possible.
Is this a question? WPA2 is great security and you should use it. A "closed" network is a deception and only fools you into thinking it adds any security. The SSID/Network name is still broadcast between any connected client and the base station. Therefore the network name is easily detectable.
Any machine can be used to configure the AEBS at any time. There is no machine designated as the controller or admin.

Similar Messages

WDS or Extend Network?

From what I have read on here, using "extend network" and WDS all cut bandwidth in half - which has also been my experience.
My problem is I have cable internet, and the "strongest signal" comes in on the basement - where I have my modem and a 1TB Time Capsule. That is my "WDS main".
In the next room I have an Airport Express in the entertainment center set up as a WDS remote.
There is another AX on the main floor (one floor up) set up in the same way.
On the next floor up, hard-wired to an iMac is an Airport Extreme (fast ethernet) which is set up as a WDS Relay to the Time Capsule. It has one client, the last Airport Express on the third floor.
I am getting just horribly slow connection on the iMac on the second floor. I'm sure this is because of the WDS setup.
Would "extend wireless network" work better?
Would changing the TC and the AEBS to 5GHz help the iMac surf a little more tolerably?
How does that affect the other Express base stations?
Ideally - the internet signal would originate somewhere more in the middle of the house. But unfortunately, that is not the case.
Does anyone have any other ideas I haven't thought of as far as getting signal everywhere?
A major factor in this as well is that I would like to stream to the Express' using AirTunes.
Thank you!

My current setup has turned out to be both fast and reliable. My TC is connected to a cable modem with Ethernet. The TC is also connected via Ethernet to a Belkin Pre-N wireless router. The TC is set in bridge mode, 802.11n (5 GHz only). The Belkin handles routing and is set for 802.11b/g only. The TC has handled backups of my MB Pro just as fast in this setup as it did when I had it serving as the router on a separate 802.11n only network. The MB Pro and an Apple TV are my only n clients. The other network clients, an old PB G4 and a network printer, are both g.
Although having separate g and n networks worked, it was inconvenient because when I wanted to print from my MB Pro, I would have to get into Airport and shift from the n to the g network, and them back to n when I wanted to do backups, which I soon grew tired of doing.

Guest Networking across WDS or extended network

Does the new 'guest networking' feature in the new AirPort Extreme work in a WDS network or across an extended network?
Does it work with older gear, specifically the previous model of the AirPort Extreme?
Thanks.

...the previous model of the AirPort Extreme?
The earlier square 802.11b/g/n AirPort Extreme base station (AEBS)?
or the round 802.11b/g AEBS? It is no for this one.

Time Capsule Access Control and Extended Network Question

I have a Time Capsule where I have set up a wireless network access list…and extended the network using an Airport Express unit. The Airport Express unit also has settings for an Access Control list. Do these need to be the same as the those for the network from TC that it is extending…or does that happen automatically…and if not what on earth are they for?
Thanks for any help…this doesn't seem clear from what I've read/seen.
James

I have a Time Capsule where I have set up a wireless network access list…and extended the network using an Airport Express unit. The Airport Express unit also has settings for an Access Control list. Do these need to be the same as the those for the network from TC that it is extending…or does that happen automatically…and if not what on earth are they for?
Unfortunately, they are not automatically applied to each base station in an extended network. You would have to manually enter the exact same list in each base station.

How does one remove a WDS type extended network?

Hi all.
I have had a wi-fi network running at home for a couple of years, based on a Time Capsule.
Recently I have acquired an iPhone, but it had severe difficulty accessing my wi-fi from my back garden, so I bought myself a second-hand 1st Gen AirPort Expres to 'extend' my wi-fi network on that side of the house. There were warnings as I set up this new device, telling me that 'WDS' reduced the bandwith of both TC & APX outputs.
I have now realised that my MacBook Pro doesn't like the signal it is receiving from the APX, (or at least one of the apps I use on it doesn't), and so I have to remove the APX again. My method of doing that was to simply un-plug the APX.
But I am now a bit concerned that doing that will leave my Time Capsule still configured with the reduced bandwidth it had when the APX was still active. Need I worry about that, or will it automatically revert to it's standalone non-WDS configuration now the APX is not powered up?

If you configured a WDS arrangement correctly, then you made WDS setup changes on both the TC and AX. So, you would need to reconfigure both the TC and AX again.
Resetting the TC and AX back to factory default setttings and starting over from scratch....as LaPastenague suggests......is a good idea, since you want to be sure to start over from a clean slate and not retain any of the old WDS settings on the TC and AX.

Extending Network Question

I have just set up my network of time capsule's, and airport's, what does the chain of different bases mean, can I change it?

The Bedrom AirPort Extreme and Piano Room AirPort Express are both "extending" the wireless signal wirelessly from the Basement Time Capsule.
The Living Room AirPort Express has "joined" the wireless network signal provided by the Bedroom AirPort Extreme, but it is not "extending" it, or providing any additional wireless signal coverage in the Living Room.
When the Express "joins" a wireless network, it can be used for Airtunes, or you could connect a USB printer to the device.
In order for the Living Room AirPort Express to "extend" the signal from the Time Capsule, it will need to be about the same distance from the Time Capsule as the Bedroom AirPort Extreme or Piano Room AirPort Express.
The Living Room AirPort Express also needs to be closer to the Time Capsule that it is to either the Bedroom AirPort Extreme or Piano Room AirPort Express.....if you want the Living Room AirPort Express to provide more wireless coverage.
When the Living Room AirPort Express is set up to "extend", there will be a dotted line between the Time Capsule and the Living Room Expess, and you will see 3 devices on the graphic, all connected to the Time Capsule.
The reason behind all this.....Apple's "extend" setup will only allow you to "extend" a signal one time. You can have multiple devices extending a signal, but each extending device must connect to the main router....the Time Capsule in your case.

Other extended network question

just wondering.... i have 2 airport extremes dualband 3 gen...
if i create and extend a network with both 2.4ghZ and 5ghZ (g+n), will it be slower than just a 2.4ghZ network??
meaning if i tell the extremes to create a dual band network, will the performance lose performance?

you mean i cant extend the 5ghZ network?
The AirPort Extreme will extend both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz if it is located where it can receive a strong wireless signal from the "main" AirPort Extreme.
Keep in mind that 5 GHz tends to work best when it has line of sight or close to that ideal between connecting devices. That is because 5 GHz signals are much weaker than 2.4 GHz signals, so they do not penetrate walls and other obstructions nearly as well as 2.4 GHz signals.
You may need to experiment with the location of the extending AirPort Extreme. Normally, you would locate an extender at a point that is about half the distance from your main router to the area that needs more wireless coverage. But, walls, ceilings, etc and other obstructions will always come into play.
Remember that in order to gain somethings else.....speed in the case of 5 GHz.....you always have to give up something else......penetration power in the case of 5 GHz.

Network design - WDS or extended network

need a lil help in terms of decision making!
I currently have 6 new Apple Airport extreme base stations setup all over the office. They are connected to ethernet ports (not static IP). Currently they are all setup as individuals networks (so they all have the same name and password). However i don't feel that is the best solution - The network seems a lil slow when transferring files off the server as well as having problems when moving from one end of the office to another.... (has to look for a new base station to connect to)
is there a better solution for designing a stronger network? I have the option to set up the whole thing as a wireless Distribution system or extended the range of an 801.11n network... just not sure which would be a better ... any suggestions?

i think you are on the proper track. ethernet as many as you can BUT separate the N devices from the B/G devices.
I use a different name for my N only router and devices to connect to it and then N+B/G for the other network name and B/G devices.
Other router are ethernet connected but I don't configure wireless on some if I don't need to do so.

Extended Network Question

I just bought a Seagate GoFlex media player mainly to use for playing movies from a GoFlex hard drive, but it also has capability to stream Netflix etc, but only via an ethernet connection.
I have an AirPort Extreme as my primary router, extended by an AirPort Express which is close to the TV.
Can I run an ethernet cable from the AirPort Express to the Seagate media player?

Hello JDChicago. Welcome to the Apple Discussions!
I have an AirPort Extreme as my primary router, extended by an AirPort Express which is close to the TV.
Can I run an ethernet cable from the AirPort Express to the Seagate media player?
Yes.

Extend Network Vs WDS

What’s the difference between extend Network and setting up a DWS?

What is not correct? You may not have understood the question nor my answer.
It is certainly true that WDS is used to wireless extend a network.
However the newer "extend network" feature offered in AirPort Utility is ONLY available when using 802.11n base stations. It is NOT an option when using 802.11g.
WDS and "extend network" are 2 different options available in different situations. Either of these options perform the action of wirelessly extending a network.

Adding a non-wireless PC to an Airport Extreme network with WDS, or extend

I have an Airport Extreme base station (802.11n), a Time Capsule, and a cable modem. Currently the Time Capsule is wired by WAN to my cable modem. It is broadcasing a wireless network to my iMac Intel Core2Duo running 10.5.2 and my AppleTV, and my MacBook Pro running 10.4.11. I'd just acquired a Windows XP PC with no WiFi card but a built-in NIC card. I'm having difficulty adding the Airport Extreme base station to the network of the Time Capsule, so the non-wireless PC can use the LAN port of the Airport Extreme and pickup an internet connection. I don't want anything connected to the WAN port of the Airport Extreme. The PC can't be moved to the room with the cable modem. Should I:
1. Set it up from the Airport Utility of my iMac or MacBook Pro?
2. Switch the placement of the Airport Extreme and Time Capsule?
3. What steps should I take from Airport Utility, to add a reset Airport Extreme or Time Capsule to the network already tied to my Cable modem?

Since both of your base stations are 802.11n, I suggest that you use the "extend a network" feature available to these, instead of creating a WDS.
1. Set it up from the Airport Utility of my iMac or MacBook Pro?
Your choice, you could use the AirPort Utility from either of these Macs to configure the base stations.
2. Switch the placement of the Airport Extreme and Time Capsule?
I'd suggest leaving the Time Capsule connected to the modem and use the AEBSn to extend its wireless network.
3. What steps should I take from Airport Utility, to add a reset Airport Extreme or Time Capsule to the network already tied to my Cable modem?
Here are the basic steps to configure the extended network:
o If practical, place the base stations in near proximity to each other during the setup phase. Once done, move them to their desired locations. You may also want to temporarily connect the AEBSn directly to one of the TC's LAN ports during setup.
o Open AirPort Utility and select the TC.
o Choose Manual Setup from the Base Station menu.
o Click AirPort in the toolbar, and then click Wireless.
o Choose “Create a wireless network” from the Wireless Mode pop-up menu, and then select the “Allow this network to be extended” checkbox.
o Next, select the AEBSn, and again choose Manual Setup from the Base Station menu.
o Choose “Extend a wireless network” from the Wireless Mode pop-up menu, and then choose the TC's wireless network from the Network Name pop-up menu.
o Click Update to update the base station with new network settings.
o Upon completion of the setup, you can now relocate the AEBSn to its desired location.
(ref: Page 46 of "Designing AirPort Networks Using AirPort Utility.)

What's the difference between WDS and Extend Wireless Network?

Hi,
I have a situation where my main computer (Mac Pro) is wired to an Extreme (n), and I have an Express (n) in another room in the house to Bridge to other computers for better wireless reception.
The manuals say I should be connecting the wireless computer via WDS. The way I have it connected right now is as such.
Extreme:
Create a wireless network
Allow this network to be extended is checked
Express:
Extend a wireless network
Allow wireless clients is checked
Is the above method correct, or should I be setting the Extreme and Express via: Participate in a WDS network?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Message was edited by: Imagine
Message was edited by: Imagine

I am not an expert on wireless networks but here is what they do in a nut shell:
WDS is a network composed by access points that work together to expand your network without the need of "wired" connectivity. so one of the bases will be wired, the rest are not , they just relay info to other computers... good for small to medium size business / homes
EWN is a network composed of wired & wireless networks/access points that work together to expand your network. pretty much you could have 5+ bases plugged in to a LAN / WAN covering different areas of your company / home (long range for medium / big business / Bill Gate's home, etc.).

What is the difference between WDS and Extending a network?

What is the difference between the two? Why choose one over the other?

Both the WDS and "Extend a wireless network setting will add more coverage area to a wireless network.
WDS must be used if any device on the network is an older "g" device. The downsides to WDS are that it drops the overall wireless speed down to "g" levels (even if there are other newer "n" routers on the network) and cuts the bandwidth capability of the network in half for each "remote" device that is added to the network. That's a really severe loss in performance.
"Extend a wireless network" is a newer technology that can be used only if all of the routers on the network are newer "n" capable devices. It allows full "n" speeds and imposes only a small bandwidth penalty on the network. Obviously, this is the setup to use if your devices will support the technology.
Message was edited by: Bob Timmons

Question about extending network

I just ordered the brand new Airport Extreme. My current Airport Extreme is about 6 years old so I upgraded to take advantage of the better WiFi speeds. What I'm wondering is what I can do with my old Airport Extreme, which still works fine. Does it make sense to set it up somewhere else in the house to extend my wireless signal further away from my new one, and if so, how do I ensure that I'm not connecting to the slower Extreme signal than the newer one if it is extending the network.

Which old model AirPort Extreme do you have?
Round shaped? Square shaped?
If it's the square version, it can be set up to "extend a wireless network", but the extending AirPort will of course not run at 802.11ac speeds.
how do I ensure that I'm not connecting to the slower Extreme signal than the newer one if it is extending the network.
Wireless devices will connect to the AirPort with the strongest signal, which is also going to be the closest AirPort at the time. No way to avoid that.
If you want to maintain 802.11ac speeds throughout an extended network, you will need two new AirPort Extremes.

Which is better for an outside studio? WDS or Extended?

Hi guys, particularly Bob Timmons, have been looking at all your replies here...but I wonder, Tesserax on one forum here said if you were requiring to linearly extend a network using all n AXs TCs etc, a WDS is better than the "spoke" effect of an extended network in terms of coverage (without using powerline adaptors that is). I have a garden studio with my Mac Pro "seeing" a closely located AX that's got a green light, but it doesn't see the network at all...though by connecting an ethernet cable from this AX to my Mac Pro, I get an internet connection, so there must be some signal.... Inside I have a netgear wired router, bridge attached to a 1st Gen TC and another n AX. Would there be ANY advantage in changing the whole setup to a WDS network? Cheers. Chris M (London)

The correct answer to an "extending" question will depend on your particular requirements, not necessarily the technology involved.
Keep in mind that there are advantages (and disadvantages) to either method of extending using wireless only.
It is true that some installations call for an arrangement of "main", "relay" and "remote" devices in a WDS arrangement. The advantage is that you get better wireless coverage over a "long" area. The disadvantage is that you will have a "g" wireless network (even if you have newer "n" routers) and you will lose 75% of the bandwidth capability of the network. I think you can readily see why you would not want to use the type of setup if it could be avoided.
If a "main" and "remotes" in a hub and spoke arrangement will meet your requirements, that is by far the better method because "n" speeds are maintained on the network and the bandwidth is much better preserved.
I would recommend the powerline adapter approach if the AirPort Express is not receiving an adequate signal or not extending it effectively. You'll have much better wireless performance with this type of setup and it will be much easier to configure than a WDS arrangement.
Sometimes, wireless just won't work in difficult installations requiring long runs or multiple obstructions.

Wds vs extended network questions

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