Which Imports Faster HDV or AVCHD in FCE and iMovie?

I'm planning on getting my first HD camcorder and I'm leaning towards the HV-20 or HG-10. I'm leaning towards the HV-20 HDV. Tapes are cheap and a good archive medium and I'm leery of small hard drives being robust. Do AVCHD camcorders use similar drives as the iPod?
I've read AVCHD takes some time to import. Does HDV import faster to AIC?
Does FCE 4 import faster than iMovie 8 for both formats?
Thanks for any advice.
Kelvin

Import speed depends on your computer, but I think the the AVCHD and the HDV transcoding is about the same. It's all being done by QuickTime. AVCHD transfer gives you more options in terms of selecting clips and portions of clip, which is more difficult to do manually off tape. But, as you said, tape is cheap and a good archive medium.

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    Hi -
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    Message was edited by: Meg The Dog to fix typo

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    Anthony,
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  • HDV or AVCHD editing =   processor utilization = import/exp. quality loss

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    I have cut/pasted this from another thread where I posted it following a question from a Canon HV20 owner. The info applies to all HDV and AVCHD cams though. Might help you decide.
    This comes from www.camcorderinfo.com
    Compression (7.0)
    The Canon HV20 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $903) uses HDV compression, a very efficient MPEG-2 codec with a fixed data rate of 25Mbps, identical to the data rate of standard definition DV compression. HDV excels in capturing stunningly high-resolution video, but it is inferior to DV in terms of rendering motion realistically, due to its dependence on interframe compression. This means that at 1080i, only one in fifteen frames is a full-frame picture, while the intervening frames are compressed in relation to each full I frame. Interframe compression is much more efficient than intraframe compression, and allows HDV to squeeze a full 1920 x 1080 picture into a 25Mbps stream, recordable to inexpensive MiniDV tapes. DV uses intraframe compression, so each frame is a fully independent picture, allowing much better motion capture. DV also uses a superior 4:1:1 color space while HDV encodes via a truncated 4:2:0 color space.
    The inherent weaknesses of HDV have led many networks to deem the format sub-standard for broadcast, but it is still the best high definition format available on the consumer camcorder market. Most consumers find the stunning resolution of HDV trumps the superior motion handling of DV. A professionally lit HDV interview (or any HDV shot without too much detail or motion) can look nearly as good as footage shot in a professional HD format on a $20,000 camera. AVCHD, a new HD format that uses H.264 compression was introduced in 2006 and compresses video even more aggressively than HDV. Our tests of Canon's UX1 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $729.95) and SR1 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $1119.99) last fall show that while AVCHD video is very sharp, it suffers from grain and artifacts much more than HDV compression. The wildcard in the consumer high definition arena is a new MPEG-2 format developed by JVC, the MPEG Transfer Stream codec, which appears for the first time in the Everio HD7 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $1529). MPEG Transport Stream compresses video at up to 30Mbps, and may rival or even outclass HDV compression.
    Media (6.0)
    Like other HDV camcorders, the Canon HV20 records to MiniDV cassettes, the same inexpensive and widely available format used by standard definition DV camcorders. MiniDV cassettes have a run time of 60 minutes in SP mode, but can hold up to 90 minutes of more compressed LP video. Unlike the DVD, memory card, and HDD formats, MiniDV tapes are linear media so moving clips to a PC from tape is a real-time process. For anyone serious about the quality of his or her video, HDV recorded to MiniDV cassette remains the best consumer HD option available. To date, consumer non-linear video formats do not support the highest-quality video compression codices for high definition (HDV) and standard definition (DV).

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    Hi there, I'm making an acting demo reel and have ripped some footage from DVDs and have found imovie HD (5) quite slow at importing these files. I have tried .mp4 and .mov and am wondering, of all the video file formats that imovie will import is there a specific format or encoder used that will import faster than the others? Thanks!

    DV is iMovie's native format and imports about as fast as a file copy. Note that DV is 13GB per hour.
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  • What is better hdv or avchd?

    I am about to be a reporter for my school's morning
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    Message was edited by: 12mill

    12mill wrote:
    .. I assumed that the HD cameras were just better in terms of quality even though they we broadcast in standard definition. Is this true?..
    this is a very complex issue, when you leave your living room at home = work only with one camera, one computer, one delivery device ..
    integration into a structure of editors, rooms, delivery-chains, etc.. a diff. cup of tea..
    can others handle your files and hardware?
    what about archiving?
    what about indexing?
    technically, for sure a better input results in better output.
    but..
    HD is 4-6 more data than SD
    HD isn't handled 'natively', you have always add conversion-times on input + render times on ouput
    there are diff. standards for HD
    no-tripod looks in HD/70" TFT even more worse than SD..
    the main assets of each format imho:
    • HDV allows easy storage of raws AND of final edits => excellent long-term storage
    • SDcard is small and ultra-fast in preview, some models allow 2-8Mpixel-stills WHILE video recording
    pic quality is defined by camera (optics, chip size and number, bitrate).
    and handling.. a 1/4000 shutter speed in a candle lighted room could result in bad pics..

  • AVCHD  to FCE 4 time?

    I record as much as twenty-two 1.5 hour lectures to 22 tapes in four consecutive days, then travel back to home and transfer to computer. Very time consuming! If I use an hard drive camcorder, like one of the Sony models, will the transfer be in realtime like with tape or very fast?
    David

    Transferring AVCHD video from a camcorder into FCE is much faster than capturing from tape (as in DV or HDV), which of necessity happens in real time.
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  • What should I get, HDV or AVCHD camera.

    I'm looking to get a new camera and I'm looking at most likely getting a Sony camera. I'm wondering which will work better and easier with Final Cut. I'm just stuck in deciding between a Hard disk drive camera that will record in AVCHD or one that records on mini DV tape in HDV. Im mainly looking for which has higher quality and greater ease of use.
    Thanks

    What version of FCP are you running? AVCHD support is officially limited to FCP 6.0.1 and I'd be wary until the accepted wisdom is that this is a straightforward workflow with no quality loss.
    You state that your primary objectives are output to the web as video podcast or to DVD. As such I believe you're wasting your time looking at both proposed formats.
    AVCHD workflow is unproven IMHO, HDV is wasted on video podcast/web output and you'll struggle to find a Blu Ray burner to output BluRay DVDs and the red dye HD DVDs you can output will only work in 1 player.
    HDV editing brings it's own difficulties as stated and suggesting the HVX-200 with its associated P2 cost is plainly ridiculous for your budget.
    I ain't impressed with 3 x 1/5" CCDs either - whatever the camera.
    Get a 3 x 1/4.7" CCD Panasonic PV-GS500 (or GS400 if you can find one) or Sony DCR-HC96 for straightforward Standard Def workflow unless you want no inexpensive external monitoring or long render times (without converting to a more editing friendly codec via capture card = more expense).
    There's life left in Standard Def and you'll still get decent quality if you're on a tight budget and wait till HDV/HD/AVCHD or whatever becomes cheaper/easier to work with in the future.
    Camera technique is more important than format - don't forget, if you're shooting hi-def for large screen viewing (and it's pretty pointless if you aren't), focus is so much more critical for one thing - I'd much rather work with and watch stuff shot by someone who knows one end of their DVX100 from the other, rather than some eejit who knows nowt but is using an expensive all-singing, all-dancing Hi-Def offering.
    IMHO, of course.

  • New camera: HDV or AVCHD??

    Hi
    b Q1: I am looking for a HD camera, I've used DV until now. I'll also upgrade to CS4. But which camera should I go for, or more specific, which format: HDV or AVCHD? Any camera suggestions (in the range of 1000-1500 USD (or about 10.000 NOK)
    I have read a lot about the time issues using AVCHD, as well as other problems using this format. But it seems that, at least for someone, it does work.
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    b Q4 For those of you using AVCHD, and are happy about how its works, what kind of camera and system do you use?
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    Nic

    Hi,
    my inputs are:
    Q1:
    if you like a nontape workflow --> Go for AVCHD
    Why not using Premiere Elements 7 for your hobby? everthing is perfectly supported in the first round..
    Q2:
    With a reasonable Q6600 system you can play 2 AVCHD streams nearly readtime today, i.e. editable both in PPro CS4 and APE7
    Q3
    In my case to apply/render a redgiant filter to a clip is even more time consuming as to generate a BD, never was a problem for me
    Q4
    AVCHD isn't evil, it's only another animal to tame.
    I use a Sony CX6E camcorder (memorysticks up to 32 GB), a monopod, a Zoom H2 for audio (forget the 5.1 ideas with cameras which even don't have limiter for the internal mic). If you would like to have some manual control I would suggest to look the Panasonic AVCHD consumer line.
    My next investment will be most probably a Panasonic HMC151E (AVCHD)or a Sony FX1000 with a recorder attached --> both at least 200 % of your budget; in any case you touched only the surface of all components needed for this "new world" :-))
    hber
    SW Vista Ultimate 32 bit, Cubase SX 4.5.2, Triton Le, Adobe Master Collection, Izotope Ozone 3, Reason 4, Native Instruments Massive, Battery 3, VSL Vienna Suite, HW Intel D975XBX2, RME HDSP9632, Quad Q6600, 3 GB memory, Marvell 61xx 1 TB Raid 0 storage, GeForce 7600 GS silent, ext equipment MX200+166XL, Yamaha N12digital 5.1 mixing studio

  • HDV or AVCHD

    Posting this question here although I'll probably be using both im08 and imHD. I was horrified when I first saw im08, but after giving it a whirl and finishing 6 10 minute movies in a day, I was fairly impressed by im08.
    I'm taking the plunge and going for a new HD cam, my current cam is a canon xm2, it's given me good service but it's mainly home movies and it's so bulky I miss many shooting opportunities just because I leave it at home most of the time. So I'm going for a compact consumer type cam instead this time only I'm not sure if it should be HDV or AVCHD.
    I'm tending to the AVCHD models at this time based on a couple of assumptions I've made, I'd be grateful for any comments about my assumptions before I actually make a choice.
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    Additionally, should I be aware of any importing issues with either of these formats in respect of both im08 and imHD.
    Finally, whether I go for HDV or AVCHD, my choice already seems to be Canon or Sony. Two areas of interest divide me between these companies. Digital stills: Sony win hands down - 6MP to Canons 3MP, on the other hand I believe Canon's image stabiliser is vastly superior, which is a big thing for me, anyone know whether this is true or maybe just exaggerated.
    In addition to that which I've raised, any other comments would be gratefully received.

    OK. Had my camera an hour or so now. Here's what I've found so far.
    im08 imports from the camera in AIC, which is anamorphic 1440 x 1080 at about 80 Mbps, so I'm not sure where everyone is getting their 960 x 540 from. This intermediate format also drops right into imHD with no problem at all.
    I've got easy access to the original files on the camera via USB, but haven't yet got around to figuring how to archive these transport streams which is something I would like to do since they are considerably smaller than the AIC files obtained through im08.
    I have a couple of tv's which will be my target for export for the foreseeable future. My simplest export option is export to QT using the tv preset, which gives me a file of 960 x 540 at 4+ Mbps. This resolution is clearly less than the maximum tv resolution of 720p but the tv won't support this resolution at 30 fps.
    Being a PAL user my frame rate is 25 not 30, which will play on the tv at 720p, I've carried out a few trials and managed to get the tv to play 720/25p at 8 Mbps without a problem by exporting using QT to mpeg-4, it fails to play if I increase the bitrate further to 10 Mbps.
    Of note I have not been able to detect any difference in quality between the 960 x 540 4 Mbps export and the 720p 8 Mbps export when I watch them on my 50" HD plasma. So unless further trials reveal any difference, I'll simply use the QT tv preset for exporting from both im08 and imHD.

  • More about FCE vs iMovie import

    Everyone should remember that FCE originally only supported HDV. And, as Steve writes in his book, HDV is always RECORDED as 1080i by both FCE and iM. Makes no difference what you set you camera too.
    There are no 1080P settings for FCE -- only 1080I and 720P. This is the world of HDV.
    When FCE first supported AVCHD it only did 1440x1080i. Then they added support for 1920x1080i.
    Steve found that 1080p30 AVCHD was converted to 1080i60 AIC. He assumed FCE missed the fact the video was PROGESSIVE. I think he mat be wrong. I think FCE saw 1080p30 and said "I don't support 1080p30" so I'll convert it to INTERLACE when I compress it to AIC.
    So I Goggled MPEG-2 and learned that progressive has a HEADER per FRAME while interlace a HEADER per FIELD. WOW!
    That means when P becomes I the number of Headers doubles. Since each Header is a bunch of bits, the I file must become larger -- without any increase in image quality.
    This may explain why you found 20% more bits but no difference in picture quality. What do you think?
    Can you give us the data rates for 1080i60 for FCE and iM. This is where yu can really see if there is any quality difference. If the bit rates are the the same then the video is the quality is the same.
    And, can you post the picture that you used to compare FCE vs iMovie. I'd like to see if I can SEE any difference.
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    Both 1080i50 and 1080p25 are RECORDED on AVCHD as 1080i50 at 25fps.
    Although this is different behavior from the Region 60 Canon's, it is not incorrect. FCE and FCP will convert this to 1080i50 AIC with a frame rate of 25fps. The difference is that the video SHOT at 25p will never show combing!
    How does iM09 convert (Optimize) them to AIC?
    Both 1080i50 and 1080p25 are converted to 1080i50 AIC.
    A) If you add a Swap FX to 1080i50 (shot at 50i) and export as 1080i50 you'll see NO combing because iM sees the 50i and deinterlaces.
    That's not what happens! Adding a Swap FX to 1080i50 (shot at 50i) and exporting as 1080i50 you WILL see combing because iM did not deinterlace. This indicates that iM09 is "seeing" the video as PROGRESSIVE and passing all 1080-lines through.
    Either iM09 is ignoring the QT 50i tag or it is checking the 25fps tag and calling it 25p or it is ignoring both QT flags and working internally with all 1080-lines -- just like iM08 and iM09 v8.0.0. I suspect that Apple only changed the Region 60 code when they released 8.0.1.
    B) If you add a Swap FX to 1080i50 (shot at 25p) and export as 1080i50 you'll see NO combing because no combing is possible with Progressive video.
    PS1: what will FCE do with 1080p25? Since the AVCHD recording claims it is 1080i50 it will pass it through as 1080i50 AIC just as does iM09. This will make no problems for FCE.
    PS2: Just as a reminder: 1080i60 and 1080i60/24p are recorded as AVCHD at 1080i60. Both FCE and iM09 pass both through as 1080i60 AIC. However, 1080p25 is recorded as AVCHD at 1080p25. iM09 passes this through as 1080p25 AIC. FCE converts it to 1080i50 AIC.

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