White Balance Selector Target Calibration

I utilize a target calibration system with a panel that is 18% grey. With Lightroom 2 I would simply use the white balance selector and click on the grey and have perfect white balance. However with Lightroom 3 this no longer works consistently. In fact sometimes the White balance set to off the chart numbers like 12,000. Any ideas or thoughts?!
Thanks,
David

Could you post a screenshot of how it looks like.
I guess you could be talking about the White Balance Loupe.
You can disable that by unticking "Show Loupe" when you have the White Balance Selector active. (But I wouldn't call the Loupe a "weird little mess of different coloured dots", more like a gride. And it doesn't obscure the pipette either).
/Andreas

Similar Messages

White balance selector reading

Is it possible to change a setting or preference in Lightroom so that the white balance selector tool will give a 0-255 value reading, instead of a 0-99 value? Having that option would allow users to better correlate their readings with what will show up once the images is analyzed with Photoshop's eyedropper tools and info window. Answers, Anyone?

You may have noticed that the values shown in the WB probe loupe are the same as those shown under the histogram. These numbers represent RGB values in a unique hybrid color space, Melissa RGB which has the ProPhoto RGB gamut and the sRGB tone curve. RGB values are always relative to a particular color space, therefore when the image is exported in one of the more standard spaces the numbers will be different. Even if you export in ProPhoto RGB the values will be different because although the gamut is the same the tone curve is gamma 1.8 instead of the "sort of" gamma 2.2 of sRGB. That is why the numerical read-outs - histogram and WB probe - are given as percentages instead of absolute 8 bit values - to avoid confusion that could be caused by displaying numbers that are essentially meaningless. However, in LR4 and LR5 you can soft proof to one of the standard spaces and at that time the read-out under the histogram will be in 0 - 255 numbers. You can even change the targeted proof space and see how the values change for the same pixel. Moreover, in LR5 you can change the read-out during editing to L*a*b* numbers if you find that more useful.

White balance selector tool in LR

just a general question here: when using the "white balance selector" eyedropper tool in LR, is this effectively equivalent to neutralizing the greys in PS, i.e. via the midtones eyedropper in a levels adjustment? just curious...

If you have both PS/Adobe Camera Raw and LR applications, you may find this this link helpful:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/3436153?tstart=0
I have both PS CS5 and LR 3, but do 99% of my digital camera and scanner image processing in LR. For things like dust spot removal on slide and negative scans PS CS5 spot healing brush and clone stamp tools are superior to LR's. I also don't need "spot removal" and initial frame cropping of scans to be non-destructive. Once this is done I open in LR and do everything else non-destructively.

White Balance Selector Disappears when moved across the image

Hi
I am using LR 4.4 on an iMac.
Does anyone know why the White Balance Selector tool would disappear when moved across an image?
it seems to change to a vertical line with an arror top and bottom.
The areas of the image on which it disappears seem to be consistent, in other words, it disappears on the same portion of the image eveytime.
UPDATE: Since posting the above a few minutes ago I've noticed that my cursor is behaving eractically. For example, on a different image to the one used above, in the library module using the Loupe the cursor changes from a magnifying glass to an arrow pointing to the right. It does this on the same part of the image every time.
Thank you for your help
Regards
Message was edited by: iwaddo

Weird cursor problems are a FEATURE of the APPLE os.
There are complaints on the APPLE os system website since 2005.
The last time I checked there were 30 pages of discussions about this on the apple site
https://discussions.apple.com/community/mac_os/os_x_mountain_lion.
I don't think APPLE has a clue as to how to fix this. It is seen in many apps, photoshop most commonly, lightroom,textedit,exxcel, and others.
Pray that something happens in soon to be released 10.8.4.
vince

Lightroom White Balance Selector

Why are the RGB numbers in the Lightroom White Balance Selector different than the RGB numbers in Photoshop's Info palette?
If you convert the image in Photoshop to 32bit the RGB numbers are the same as the White Balance Selector in Lightroom, is Lightroom's WB Selector reading 32bit RGB values?

>Since prophotoRGB has a 1.8 gamma and prophoto has a 1.8 gamma, the numbers will be different, even if you do the math (divide by 2.56 for the 8-bit display).
Actually, while the histogram and samples are in "Melissa RGB" (so named by Mark Hamburg in tribute to Melissa Gual, the LR QE) in fact, the processing pipeline is using a linear gamma version of ProPhoto RGB. All of which means that the numbers shown in Lightroom really don't bear any relationship to any usable normal color spaces as you would have in Photoshop with a given working space.
The net result is that Lightroom reads out in %s instead of an arbitrary color space. Since, in Lightroom in Develop, the image isn't yet in a defined color space, it would be useless to actually give you readouts in a color spacewhich is what Photoshop can do (since the image is in a defined color space).
So, Lightroom and Photoshop are using different scales...

White Balance Selector Tool operation

The WB selector tool still appears as though it only selects one pixel in the the "Pick a Target Neutral" array display window, the one with the x over it (regardles of whether you scale the matrix to 16x16 or 5x5 with the scale slider. It does not appear to allow averaging of adjacent pixels to reduce the effect of random noisy pixels messing up the wb. This has already been brought up in previous threads and the LR team apparently dismisses the concern. Reminder to Adobe Labs: we don't all shoot with relatively noiseless Nikon D3/ D700s. Our cameras do produce significant color noise even at relatively low ISOs. So when we attempt to find a neutral patch or pick a spot on a neutral whibal card with the color picker tool, we see a random array of various shades of gray, some a little more purple, some a little more green in the tool's selection window. Depending on which pixel we place the X on, we get a different white balance. EVEN THOUGH WE ARE HOVERING OVER WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN EVENLY LIT NEUTRAL BALANCE CARD! Could you guys please talk with your Photoshop colleagues and figure out how to give us a 5x5 or NxN pixel averaging white balance picker. Or maybe you confirm that I am wrong and in fact this tool already DOES average all the pixels I see in the "Pick a Target Neutral" pixel array display? This would be far more useful an option than the ability to put a decorative flourish at the bottom of a menu panel! Thanks.

In addition to the point being made above in regards to a 3x3 or 5x5 pixel eye dropper for the selection of your color balance(color temperature), it would be great to have an eye dropper to select & set your black, white & mid grey(18%) point inside of lightroom to not only neutralize any color cast but also to set your tonal values with a x-rite color checker or similar reference.

White balance selector tool

When i select the wb tool in the develop mode and move it over the image the RGB numbers do not show up in the floating grid.
Is there somthing I need to select for this to work ?
Ken

Ken,
It's a known bug with 3.3RC.
Hal

Images look different with same white balance

Hey folks,
Just ran some tests between a Nikon D300 and a Nikon D7000. I pulled both images into Lightroom 3.4 (PC), and matched the white balance using the White Balance Selector tool and a WhiBal card in a test image. And even though they now have the same white balance, the colors are distinctly different. How is this possible? (The same image shot with a D200 looks nearly identical to the D300.) Examples:
D7000
D300
All other specs the same:
Nikon 17-55mm f/2.8 @50mm
1/80 @ f/5.6, ISO 200
RAW
Color space: AdobeRGB
Picture Control setting: SD (standard)
Custom white balance from WhiBal card, matched in Lightroom 3.4: 5200, +38
I need to be able to shoot with multiple bodies and sync them so I don't have to adjust the batches separately.
Thanks in advance

WB is not the only factor involved in how colour is created in a digital image. The WB just sets the colour temperature. How the colour is created is effected by many other factors, hence calibration profiles. By calibrating the sensor you can produce a standardised response for a particular individual sensor. You could then carefully match this with a different sensor. However there will always be subtle differences. It would be far easier when requiring a particular shoot to have exactly the same look, to use one camera and one lens to achieve it.
When making a film, directors, such as Hitchcock, would insist on not only using the same film stock, from the same batch, but in the case of Vertigo even had the same water source used for all processing to achieve the look he was after.

The Lightroom Manual is Not Clear on Options for the White-Balance Tool

In the section "Working with image tone and color" the Lightroom manual states:
Specify a neutral area in the photo
1. In the Basic panel of the Develop module, click the White Balance Selector tool to select it, or press the W key.
2. Move the White Balance Selector into an area of the photo that should be a neutral light gray. Avoid spectral highlights or areas that are
100% white.
3. Set options in the toolbar as needed.
Sets the White Balance Selector tool to dismiss automatically after clicking only once in the photo.
Displays a close-up view and the RGB values of a sampling of pixels under the White Balance Selector.
Zooms the close-up view in the Loupe...."
Item 3 is unclear. I selected the white balance selector, and moved it to an area as instructed,
but I cannot find any toolbar with the options described.
How do I get to this mysterious toolbar?? Everyone seems to think its a simple thing, but I cannot find it and I am not able to set any of the options described!
While I am sure this is a simple thing, I think that the manual should be much more clear about this description; what is there now is very inadequate.

It should be directly underneath the image preview - press the T key if it's not there.

A dumb question about kelvin and white balance in Lightroom

I keep reading a high kelvin number is cooler and a low number is warmer, but in light room, in the develope module, the lower number ( 3500 ) is blue, and a higher number, (7000) is very yellow. What am I missing?

Lee is essentially correct with his analysis but incorrect with the details. The Kelvin colour temperature scale is between Yellow and Blue, not Red and Blue as stated.
There's a lot of confusion about this, with many digital photographers missing the significance of the difference between cyan and blue, magenta and red etc.
To be fair, the printing industry has added to the confusion by traditionally calling printing inks Blue, Red and Yellow when they really are cyan, magenta and yellow.
Even Adobe can get it wrong. In the initial Lightroom beta release, the temperature scale had the colours Cyan at one end and Yellow at the other. I suggested it be changed to Blue to make it correct and less confusing which thankfully was implemented in the next update.
Despite decades of working with colour both in the darkroom and with Photoshop, I too struggle with the counter-intuitive approach of the colour temperature reading in Lightroom.
Essentially, if you shoot in light that is too blue, then you need to add Yellow. So the Kelvin number displayed in Lightroom isn't the 'Mired' correction or the amount of Yellow added, but a readout of the scene's original colour temperature before the Yellow correction.
This can be really useful. I use several different branded flash units with various reflectors and attachments. I recently ran a test, shooting a Macbeth colour checker with all the different combinations.
I then used the White Balance Selector (dropper) on the neutral 5 patch and wrote down the resulting colour temperature.
From that I could work out what filter corrections I needed to use on each flash and reflector to produce consistent daylight balance.
Most flashes seem to be around 6000ºK but I had variation between 5200ºK & 6400ºK with the combinations.

New to RAW, White balance question

I've been using Lightroom for years, but with my camera outputting JPG images only. I've now started working with RAW (NEF) files from my D90 recently, and am having newbie's difficulties.
LR 2.6, Mac OSX 10.5.8, iMac 24" 2.8GHz
The problem that brings me here is that I just did a shoot without setting a white balance. Shot JPG & NEF, and I see that Lightroom is extrapolating the AWB values the camera came up with onto the NEF files "As Shot". For a series of similar images I have found a white balance that seems to work. I set that on my chosen image, shift-select the rest, and attempt to SYNC white balance to the other images.
It doesn't take. WB's remain "As Shot" for the other images, and all over the place, following the camera. Expanding the items synced to include "Treatment (Color)" doesn't help.
How can I "Sync" white balance with NEF files, please?
Many thanks in advance.

So Lightroom is essentially applying an "Auto WB" on its own when displaying images "As Shot"?
ON EDIT: I ask this because every image has a different, individual "As Shot" WB when first seen in Lightroom.
Hardly seems "As Shot" if LR is going in and altering the WB right off the bat.
MethodPhoto wrote:
The white balance information that Nikon knows about is not information that Lightroom uses.
Camera Raw and Lightroom use Adobe's method of profiling the camera which is different from Nikon's. So you won't get an exact match, however Adobe provide a set of profiles which are intended to match as closely as possible the Camera looks - these are in Develop > Camera Calibration
If you find there are a certain set of adjustments that you repeatedly make then save them as a Preset and you can apply them to a batch of images or on import. (These can include White Balance settings and Calibrations and Profiles).

Lightroom: Why does auto white balance no longer work after changing the camera calibration profile?

I'm using NEF raw files from Nikon.
Lets say for example I import a NEF file into Lightroom (v4) and click on 'auto' for white balance. The white balance in the image is adjusted correctly (somewhat). However, if I then change the camera profile (in the camera calibration section) from 'adobe standard' to 'camera standard' then the white balance in the image becomes very wrong. I then have to set the white balance back to 'as shot' and correct it manually instead.
Why would 'auto white balance' no longer work just because I change the profile from 'adobe standard' to 'camera standard'?
Any ideas?

Works as expected here...
Which Lr version and what OS??

White Balance tool and Camera Calibration Profiles

Downloaded Lightroom v4 Beta 1 for mac but the installer package failed to launch. (com.apple.installer.pagecontroller error -1.) So I've only watched the adobe tv presentations todate.
Anyway just wanted to give some feedback as a pro photographer about use of Lightroom and improvments I would like to see in the next version.
I am a commercial photographer who needs colour accuracy in photographing fashion/garment images - most of my work is reproduced on a printing press for catalogues and brochures. On average a shoot will yeild about 500 images for a client, so workflow is important as they normally want them all!
As a previous user of Capture One Pro v6 and now lightroom v3.6 - the biggest issue I have with Lightroom is the dominace of red tint when setting the white balance from a gray card reference image, shot at the same time as the images to be processed. I'm not adding anything to the images other than doing a white balance, a tweak on exposure and camera neutral setting on profiles.
To obtain a white balance setting I use the combination of an Xrite white balance card and the Q-Card and the old fasioned Kodak Gray cards all mounted on the same surface. I've used spot and ambient light readings on the gray cards to measure exposure and I've used the Adobe DNG Profiler and the Xrite colour checker profiler with the large colour checker card as a reference, (I've made profiles for sunny days, cloudy days, dual illuminant etc etc) and I'm viewing my images on a colour calibrated apple monitor.
Not withstanding all of the above the best results I get out of Lightroom are using the camera profile neutral setting! Everthing else is just too red!! even though the images do look more punchy; for accuracy of actual colour I choose the camera neutral profile.
Well when I say best results, those for colour critical garment photography and skin tones, these results are similar to those obtained from capture one pro v6.
So for the Lightroom v4 I would like to see.
1. White balance RGB values in numbers rather than percentages.
2. Add and delete a colour readouts points with a dropper tool on an image to enable more acurate colour balancing particularly in shadow areas - (already available on capture one pro and adobe photoshop)
3. Curves adjustments in all RGB channels (think you've done this)
4. Output to CMYK profiles.
5. Individual levels channel adjustment for RGB
6. Ability re-organize my tools palette (add and remove) is per Capture One and Photoshop
Regards

The legacy ACR X.x profiles are no more produced nor included for newer cameras (AFAIK, since ACR 5.1/LR 2.1). The Adobe Standard is the new default starting point for these.
While I am at it....are the Canon camera profiles I downloaded for the 1Ds MKII the same as for the 5D MKII or do I have to download different one...I suspect they are the same or Lightroom wouldn't offer them to me...is that correct?
The profiles are different for each camera model, even if they share the same name in the Calibration panel. If you can see them when developing 5DII files, it means the camera-specific profiles are installed for your particular camera model (otherwise, you wouldn't see them).

White Balance - Eye Dropper and Monitor Calibration

Does the eye dropper correctly set the white point even if the monitor is not correctly calibrated? I do calibrate monthly with the XRite but I'm not sure that the calibration is perfect.
I use a grey card, and the eye dropper in LR. So even though I calibrate - must the monitor be correctly calibrated for the eye dropper to work?
... and now tell me what monitor you love for photo editing. Thanks

Thanks for this answer,
I am using a Dell LCD monitor and have been happy with the color, but can not get skin tones right in my prints, they look washed out after I do a grey card white balance. So I just ordered a Eizo CG222WBK, now I'll only have myself to blame if my images don't look right
Dan

ACR 4: White Balance readings off of a target

In the good old days (ACR 3.7 and previous), I could shoot a white balance target, then open the image in ACR and use the eyedropper to set the white balance. No more. Now, I get a message that states - "The clicked area is too bright to set the white balance. Please click on a less bright neutral area."
Well, I'm using (and have been using) Danny Pascale's White Target that was made specifically for this purpose. (http://www.babelcolor.com/main_level/White_Target.htm)
Something has changed, and it's not for the better. I've tried decreasing the exposure in ACR, to make sure the values are far below 255, to no avail. Interestingly, the first measurement "click" does nothing. The second gives the error. The is very reproducible. Something's not right...
--Rich Wagner

Ok...
"You sure seem helbent on using your White Disk as a target for the white balance in Camera Raw...as you've found out, that's a bit less than optimal if your sensor exposure will likely produce a clipped channel since Camera Raw won't let you."
Well, when I'm crawling around in the mud in Costa Rica, Ecuador, or Peru, soaked, the ColorChecker card doesn't fare well. I've gone through a number of them, and in *my* field use, they suck. Period. In a studio, they're fine. I still own several. I just measured one for the numbers I gave above. I'm helbent on having something that is
reliable in my use. I could care less what it's called or who makes it. On the other hand, you seem insistant that the White Disk is inferior, and I'm trying to figure out why (other than the fact that Mr. Knoll used the ColorChecker card when designing ACR).
"What Thomas has stated and what I know to be a fact, is that the lightest grey of the CC is what the white balance tool is designed to use. It's light enough that it's not too far down the scale but dark enough to not worry about clipping. So, the ideal is to use the same patch that the white balance tool in Camera Raw was designed around."
Really? On my card, the lightest gray on the ColorChecker is
not the most neutral. The
second gray is. You can see the numbers above. Are you implying that Camera Raw will be more accurate making a WB measurement off of a patch that is not neutral, compared to one that is?
"So, what is it about your White Disk that has you so fixated on using WHITE (at the risk of clipping)? Yes, you can use it as long as it doesn't clip...is it optimal? No."
Argghhh... If I shoot a test shot and the White Disk clips, then guess what? I'm overexposing! Time to adjust the exposure before going on. This is easy to see on the White Disk because I get zebra stripes. I'f I'm shooting a gray card, I don't get that feedback and I may later discover that
important stuff was clipped, and it's too late! Sure, I can color balance just fine, but important highlights are gone. Which is most important? I can always eyeball color temperature - it's subjective, anyway. Or I can measure off something neutral in the shot. Clipped channels? Data lost is data lost...
Perhaps our shooting conditions are very dissimilar. I have found the White Disk to be a useful tool, just like many others that I have. It works (against all expectations?) and it works well. If I overexpose a neutral white target, I am often overexposing something else of interest. It becomes a
red flag when checking exposure, since I often cannot even see the histogram on the back of the camera. I am certainly NOT recommending that everyone switch to using a White Disk. I have just been surprised at the response of those who feel that for whatever reason it
cannot work as well as gray. I see no theoretical reason why not - still. Show me the math, or a give me clear-cut reason. My understanding (and experience) says otherwise. Or to put it another way, if it didn't work, I wouldn't use it, and neither would anyone else. If someone frequently overexposes their shots and relies on highlight recovery, it's probably not a good tool for them (unless it helps them correct their exposure).
--Rich

White Balance Selector Target Calibration

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