WMII questions

I've been playing around with wmii, and I really like it, but I've come to the point of the "why doesn't it do this?" questions. Since the arch forum seems to be full of tiling wm advocates, I thought I'd ask here first:
1. Is it possible to maximize a window temporarily? I know of the max layout, but that only affects the current column. Ideally, I'd work in a two-column layout with the ability to quickly let one client fill the whole screen. In Awesome terms: toggle between tiled and max layout. I haven't found a way to do that in wmii. The closest I come is to have the main window alone in the left column, then move it to the right with ctrl-modkey-l and max that column, but that's not ideal.
2. Can I resize the columns horizontally without using the mouse? Cf. Awesome Mod-l/Mod-h. Very annoying, but there doesn't seem to be a default key binding for it.
3. I'm confused about the function of the floating vs. managed layers. If I send a client to the floating layer (mod-ctl-space), and toggle the view between managed and floating (mod-space), the managed layer has focus, but floating window is still up front, so I can't see the managed clients. Is that intended behaviour, or is there something wrong with my setup?
4. When I switch between layouts, my terminals are frequently messed up: going from default to max layout, vim only uses half the space. If I change between stacked and max, it will again use the full column. Is this related to wmii, or is it my terminal settings?
5. I'd like new clients to be added to the right and not below the existing window, at least when adding the second client (for the third, it's fine to get it below in the current column). Awesome works that way -- can WMII too?
After this, one might ask: well then, why don't you use awesome if you think it's so awesome? Well, I really enjoy the dynamic tagging system in wmii, and I haven't found a way to make awesome behave similarly. I've played around with eminent, but it doesn't seem to do what wmii does. Or?

eyolf wrote:1. Is it possible to maximize a window temporarily?
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/ctl "Fullscreen toggle"
Or alternatively add another tag a switch to that view.
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "+foobar"
wmiir xwrite /ctl "view foobar"
eyolf wrote:2. Can I resize the columns horizontally without using the mouse?
Yes you can but currently only with the hg version.
3.
eyolf wrote:the managed layer has focus, but floating window is still up front, so I can't see the managed clients. Is that intended behaviour
Yep.
eyolf wrote:4. When I switch between layouts, my terminals are frequently messed up: going from default to max layout, vim only uses half the space.
I don't get that. What terminal are you using?
eyolf wrote:5. I'd like new clients to be added to the right and not below the existing window, at least when adding the second client (for the third, it's fine to get it below in the current column). Awesome works that way -- can WMII too?
Indeed, it could if you too, what language you are configuring wmii with?
Last edited by N30N (2008-08-15 18:42:41)

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Starting out with WMII, questions...[SOLVED]

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The other thingg I want to query is trransparency. Do I need xcompmgr, or do I just edit my .wmiirc?
Aside from that, I'm loving tiling thus far
Last edited by hume's doona (2010-02-02 03:02:41)

Could you please file a bug report agains wmii?
It seems some WMs put their .desktop file in /etc/X11/sessions and some put it in /usr/share/xsessions.
$ ls /etc/X11/sessions
evilwm.desktop kde-safe.desktop ratpoison.desktop
kde.desktop pekwm.desktop xmonad.desktop
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i3.desktop openbox-gnome.desktop scrotwm.desktop wmii.desktop
Shouldn't this be standardized?

New window manager (with prototype!) [wmii-like] --- looking for help

I have a prototype for a new window manager in the style of wmii. It is called
cakewm. I currently have a prototype version implemented in pygame, and would
like help moving this to use X---making it a real window manager.
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development. The most I've done is add a couple new features to wmfs.
To get the code
> git clone git://github.com/saikobee/cakewm.git
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forked a library I made previously rather than coding straight in pygame.
cakewm's goals are to be similar to wmii, but with more functionality, easier
configurability, and saner defaults.
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- cakewm provides 9 workspaces per monitor.
- cakewm manages each workspace as a group of columns. Each column is like a
wmii default split, except each window can have other windows "stacked" on
top of or behind it.
- cakewm manages column sizes (and window sizes within columns) using a
master/slave paradigm, with the ability to adjust the size ratios.
- cakewm's configuration file is simple key=val pairs, with the ability to
include other files like in C.
- cakewm has a slightly larger emphasis on window decorations (adjustable
size---even in tiled mode) and themes (nothing bloated, like pixmaps or
gradients---it's all still simple colors).
- cakewm will have proper support for international text (Japanese text in
window titles or the wmii status bar generally render as boxes) through the
use of a more advanced text library such as Pango.
Please let me know if you have comments, questions, or concerns. If you are
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look for volunteers, please let me know.

m4co wrote:
Wow is this forum active. Makes me feel welcome here
The thing about wireless, I actually like command line, but there are a few things that are worth having a applet or something.
And wireless is one of those. I guess I can take a look on wicd.
It's a good idea to have compiz as the WM actually. Would it be lightweight to have it like that?
Is there anybody here that uses compiz as a WM?
For the xfce4-panel, is it possible to get transparency on it? That's probably the only thing holding me back with xfce4-panel.
If "able to run compiz" wasn't a requisite, what other WM would you suggest for my "profile" ?
I would like to hear other users opinions who like to customize everything on a WM.
I recommend running Compiz by itself. There is a good wiki page on it in the Arch wiki. Some apps you'll want to go with it are:
LXAppearance --change GTK/icon theme
Feh or Nitrogen --Set Wallpaper
Xfce4-panel --The lightest one that works with Compiz properly
Or, if you don't want a panel: stalonetray
Compiz-deskmenu --For a customizable right-click main menu
Gmrun --Run dialog (Alt+F2 in most DEs)
And this helped me a lot.
Thank you all for the replies. I appreciate.
Xfce4-panel can have transparency. The only problem is that everything become transparent: text, icons, everything.
I use Compiz as a standalone WM and it is much lighter than DE+Compiz. My Compiz setup uses about 30MB(out of 1GB) more RAM than my Openbox setup (which are both the same except for the WM).

Lock screen in wmii

Hello.
Sorry for my first post being a question, but
I use wmii at work and I would like to be able
to lock my screen. How should I go about it?
A screensaver would be nice, but is unnecessary.

Just put it in your .xinitrc:
xscreensaver -nosplash &
Then, to lock your screen, you can do:
xscreensaver-command -lock

Wmiipsel removed from current wmii?

hi, I've installed wmii-3.6 by pacman but can't find wmiipsel. It's removed from wmii-3.6 or I should find it somewhere else?
Thanks

Hi Ron,
Try:
SELECT right(convert(varchar, t0.[docdate], 112),6) from OINV t0
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If you want to YYYYMMDD format,
Use
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One question for one thread.
Thanks,
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How to start wmii-hg?

Hello--
I'm a new Arch user. I was able to install Arch and get wmii up and running. I wanted to configure wmii such that the tag/status bar was at the top of the screen. On this forum (the wmii thread), I found the suggestion to run
wmiir xwrite /ctl bar on top
When I tried that, it had an error with the /ctl part of the command. Elsewhere, I saw a post that indicated that command doesn't work in wmii, but, rather, in wmii-hg. Many here recommend wmii-hg, so I decided to go for it.
So I installed yaourt and successfully installed wmii-hg (including the library that everyone else was having problems with). But how do you start it? Do you change the .xinitrc to exec wmii-hg? Tried that and it couldn't start X. Tried exec wmii and it seemed to go into wmii, not wmii-hg.
On another website, Someone said that they removed wmii after a wmii-hg install and it worked. Tried that, and now I can't get X to start at all. It gives an MTRR error.
So my main question is-- after a wmii-hg install, how do you direct your system to start wmii-hg when you start X? I've searched the forum and wiki and just can't seem to find the answer to this.
Secondarily, how can I get my system to startx again? Should I re-install wmii? Reinstall the whole system?
Thanks,
--Jim

All I remember doing was removing wmii and ~/.wmii.
Copied the setup with cp -a /etc/wmii-hg ~/.wmii-hg. To start from cli I type xinit wmii due to my .xinitrc layout but otherwise xinit should work.
You could always try specifying the full path, ie xinit /usr/bin/wmii
My .xinitrc if it's any help
#!/bin/sh
#setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
setxkbmap gb &
xset r rate 250 25 & xrandr --dpi 96 &
ARG=$1
DEFAULTWM="openbox-settings" # specify the default argument here
if [ ! $ARG ]; then
ARG=$DEFAULTWM
fi
if [ $ARG = "wmii" ]; then
WM=wmii
elif [ $ARG = "rio" ]; then
WM=rio
elif [ $ARG = "xmonad" ]; then
WM=xmonad
else
WM=$DEFAULTWM
fi
exec ck-launch-session $WM
As an aside, moving the bar should be quite straight forward, although wmiir xwrite /ctl bar on top will only work for a single session, you'd probably want to alter .wmii-hg/wmiirc to maintain it over sessions.
Output of wmiir read /ctl
bar on bottom
border 2
colmode stack
focuscolors #FFA620 #222222 #3C3C3C
font -*-terminus-medium-r-*-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-*
grabmod Mod1
incmode squeeze
normcolors #60799C #222222 #333333
view 1
Someone without plan9port can see wmiir xwrite /ctl bar on top works?

How do you configure wmii using c++?

Hi, sorry for this newb question, but I searched online on google and I get nothing about this. I only see things about wmii and configuring it with Ruby.
According to this: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Co … w_Managers wmii can be configured by almost anything, and since it's written in C, I should be able to write the configuration file in c++, right? If not, please kindly say no and if possible, direct me to a tiling window manager that CAN be configured using c++. I don't have the time to learn a new language.
Thanks.

Look at the wmii topic in the wiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wmii. At the end you will see a bunch of "See Also" entries. One of them is the wmii user guide, and another is the wmii web site, with a link to their user group.

Wmii/dash scripting help please

So heres the thing, I pretty much suck at scripting .
I get by in tiling wm's simply by observing, modifying, and eventually learning through trial and error.
So Ive been playing around with wmii lately and Ive hacked up my wmiirc to do what I want as best I can with what limited knowledge I have, but I need more.
First problem, Im trying to make wmii have custom tag titles while still using alt + 0-9 instead of using alt + t and typing the title every time.
heres what I did to achieve this
# for i in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9; do
# cat <<!
#Key $MODKEY-$i # Move to the numbered view
# wmiir xwrite /ctl view "$i"
#Key $MODKEY-Shift-$i # Retag selected client with the numbered tag
# wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "$i"
# done
Key $MODKEY-1
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "web"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-1
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "web"
Key $MODKEY-2
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "ctrl"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-2
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "ctrl"
Key $MODKEY-3
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "stat"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-3
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "stat"
Key $MODKEY-4
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "msg"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-4
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "msg"
Key $MODKEY-5
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "img"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-5
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "img"
Key $MODKEY-6
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "vid"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-6
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "vid"
Key $MODKEY-7
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "misc"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-7
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "misc"
Key $MODKEY-8
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "misc1"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-8
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "misc1"
Key $MODKEY-9
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "misc2"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-9
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "misc2"
Key $MODKEY-0
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "misc3"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-0
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "misc3"
Now this does work, but the problem is that now tags are listed on the tag bar alphabetically rather then numerically like I intended. Example alt + 1 (which is now web) actually ends up being the last tag in the list rather then the first because web starts with w.
I.E [crtl][msg][stat][web] instead of [web][ctrl][stat][msg] like I intended.
So I guess the question is how can I fix this so theyre listed in accordance with the key thats pressed rather then alphabetically? Is this possible in wmii?
Also I dont want to change the keys (i.e. make web 9 instead of 1 so its last on the keyboard too). I like the web=1,ctr=2l,stat=3,msg=4 layout that I chose in my config, I just dont like how theyre out of order on the bar.
Next problem, I want to autostart specific applications on specific tags and in a specific arrangement.
heres what I did to achieve this
# Autostart (this is ghetto, I know)
echo -n view ctrl | wmiir write /ctl;urxvtc -e ssh 192.168.1.55 -p 228 &
urxvtc -e ssh [email protected] -p 228 &
sleep 1.5 && urxvtc &
sleep 2 && wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel right &
sleep 2.5 && echo -n view stat | wmiir write /ctl;urxvtc -e vifm &
sleep 2.5 && urxvtc -e alsamixer &
sleep 3 && urxvtc -e htop &
sleep 3.5 && wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel left &
sleep 4 && echo -n view msg | wmiir write /ctl;pidgin &
sleep 3.5 && echo -n view web | wmiir write /ctl;wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl colmode sel stack;uzbl-browser &
This also works, but it seems a bit too hackish if you ask me. It also takes a while to go through the tags and open things one at a time like this. Surely there must be a way to achieve the same results without all the sleep and manual client placement commands. Im looking for a way to open everything simultaneously and have it go directly where its supposed to.
So what would be the better way to do this?
And lastly heres the complete wmiirc for reference. If anybody has any tips or suggestions about anything please share.
#!/bin/dash -f
# Configure wmii
wmiiscript=wmiirc # For wmii.sh
. wmii.sh
# Configuration Variables
MODKEY=Mod1
UP=k
DOWN=j
LEFT=h
RIGHT=l
# Bars
noticetimeout=5
noticebar=/rbar/!notice
# Colors tuples: "<text> <background> <border>"
export WMII_NORMCOLORS='#a7a15e #262626 #3e3e3e'
export WMII_FOCUSCOLORS='#262626 #a7a15e #3e3e3e'
export WMII_BACKGROUND='#262626'
set -- $(echo $WMII_NORMCOLORS $WMII_FOCUSCOLORS)
# Font
export WMII_FONT='xft:Terminus-8'
#export WMII_FONT='-dec-terminal-bold-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*'
# Terminal
export WMII_TERM="urxvtc"
# Menu history
hist="${WMII_CONFPATH%%:*}/history"
histnum=5000
# Column Rules
wmiir write /colrules <<!
/.*/ -> 58+42
# /.*/ -> 62+38 # Golden Ratio
# Tagging Rules
wmiir write /rules <<!
# Apps with system tray icons like to their main windows
# Give them permission.
#/^Pidgin:/ allow=+activate
# Float Apps
/MPlayer/ floating=on
/feh/ floating=on
/gimp/ floating=on
/^Pidgin:/ floating=on
# ROX puts all of its windows in the same group, so they open
# with the same tags. Disable grouping for ROX Filer.
#/^ROX-Filer:/ group=0
# Status Bar Info
status() {
echo -n $(uptime | sed 's/.*://; s/,//g') '|' $(date +%a' '%b' '%d' '%r)
# Generic overridable startup details
startup() { witray & }
local_events() { true;}
wi_runconf -s wmiirc_local
startup
echo $WMII_NORMCOLORS | wmiir create $noticebar
# Event processing
events() {
cat <<'!'
# Events
Event CreateTag
echo "$WMII_NORMCOLORS" "$@" | wmiir create "/lbar/$@"
Event DestroyTag
wmiir remove "/lbar/$@"
Event FocusTag
wmiir xwrite "/lbar/$@" "$WMII_FOCUSCOLORS" "$@"
Event UnfocusTag
wmiir xwrite "/lbar/$@" "$WMII_NORMCOLORS" "$@"
Event UrgentTag
shift
wmiir xwrite "/lbar/$@" "*$@"
Event NotUrgentTag
shift
wmiir xwrite "/lbar/$@" "$@"
Event LeftBarClick LeftBarDND
shift
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "$@"
Event Unresponsive
client=$1; shift
msg="The following client is not responding. What would you like to do?$wi_newline"
resp=$(wihack -transient $client \
xmessage -nearmouse -buttons Kill,Wait -print \
-fn "${WMII_FONT%%,*}" "$msg $(wmiir read /client/sel/label)")
if [ "$resp" = Kill ]; then
wmiir xwrite /client/$client/ctl slay &
fi
Event Notice
wmiir xwrite $noticebar $wi_arg
kill $xpid 2>/dev/null # Let's hope this isn't reused...
{ sleep $noticetimeout; wmiir xwrite $noticebar ' '; }&
xpid = $!
# Menus
Menu Client-3-Delete
wmiir xwrite /client/$1/ctl kill
Menu Client-3-Kill
wmiir xwrite /client/$1/ctl slay
Menu Client-3-Fullscreen
wmiir xwrite /client/$1/ctl Fullscreen on
Event ClientMouseDown
wi_fnmenu Client $2 $1 &
Menu LBar-3-Delete
tag=$1; clients=$(wmiir read "/tag/$tag/index" | awk '/[^#]/{print $2}')
for c in $clients; do
if [ "$tag" = "$(wmiir read /client/$c/tags)" ]; then
wmiir xwrite /client/$c/ctl kill
else
wmiir xwrite /client/$c/tags -$tag
fi
if [ "$tag" = "$(wi_seltag)" ]; then
newtag=$(wi_tags | awk -v't='$tag '
$1 == t { if(!l) getline l
print l
exit }
{ l = $0 }')
wmiir xwrite /ctl view $newtag
fi
done
Event LeftBarMouseDown
wi_fnmenu LBar "$@" &
# Actions
Action showkeys
echo "$KeysHelp" | xmessage -file - -fn ${WMII_FONT%%,*}
Action quit
wmiir xwrite /ctl quit
Action exec
wmiir xwrite /ctl exec "$@"
Action rehash
wi_proglist $PATH >$progsfile
Action status
set +xv
if wmiir remove /rbar/status 2>/dev/null; then
sleep 2
fi
echo "$WMII_NORMCOLORS" | wmiir create /rbar/status
while status | wmiir write /rbar/status; do
sleep 1
done
# Key Bindings
KeyGroup Moving around
Key $MODKEY-$LEFT # Select the client to the left
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select left
Key $MODKEY-$RIGHT # Select the client to the right
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select right
Key $MODKEY-$UP # Select the client above
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select up
Key $MODKEY-$DOWN # Select the client below
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select down
Key $MODKEY-space # Toggle between floating and managed layers
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select toggle
KeyGroup Moving through stacks
Key $MODKEY-Control-$UP # Select the stack above
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select up stack
Key $MODKEY-Control-$DOWN # Select the stack below
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select down stack
KeyGroup Moving clients around
Key $MODKEY-Shift-$LEFT # Move selected client to the left
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel left
Key $MODKEY-Shift-$RIGHT # Move selected client to the right
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel right
Key $MODKEY-Shift-$UP # Move selected client up
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel up
Key $MODKEY-Shift-$DOWN # Move selected client down
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel down
Key $MODKEY-Shift-space # Toggle selected client between floating and managed layers
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel toggle
KeyGroup Client actions
Key $MODKEY-f # Toggle selected client's fullsceen state
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/ctl Fullscreen toggle
Key $MODKEY-Shift-c # Close client
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/ctl kill
KeyGroup Changing column modes
Key $MODKEY-d # Set column to default mode
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl colmode sel default-max
Key $MODKEY-s # Set column to stack mode
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl colmode sel stack-max
Key $MODKEY-m # Set column to max mode
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl colmode sel stack+max
KeyGroup Running programs
Key $MODKEY-a # Open wmii actions menu
action $(wi_actions | wimenu -h "${hist}.actions" -n $histnum) &
Key $MODKEY-p # Open program menu
eval wmiir setsid "$(wimenu -h "${hist}.progs" -n $histnum <$progsfile)" &
Key $MODKEY-Return # Launch a terminal
eval wmiir setsid $WMII_TERM &
KeyGroup Other
Key $MODKEY-Control-t # Toggle all other key bindings
case $(wmiir read /keys | wc -l | tr -d ' \t\n') in
0|1)
echo -n "$Keys" | wmiir write /keys
wmiir xwrite /ctl grabmod $MODKEY;;
wmiir xwrite /keys $MODKEY-Control-t
wmiir xwrite /ctl grabmod Mod3;;
esac
KeyGroup Tag actions
Key $MODKEY-t # Change to another tag
wmiir xwrite /ctl view $(wi_tags | wimenu -h "${hist}.tags" -n 50) &
Key $MODKEY-Shift-t # Retag the selected client
# Assumes left-to-right order of evaluation
wmiir xwrite /client/$(wi_selclient)/tags $(wi_tags | wimenu -h "${hist}.tags" -n 50) &
# for i in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9; do
# cat <<!
#Key $MODKEY-$i # Move to the numbered view
# wmiir xwrite /ctl view "$i"
#Key $MODKEY-Shift-$i # Retag selected client with the numbered tag
# wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "$i"
# done
Key $MODKEY-1
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "web"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-1
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "web"
Key $MODKEY-2
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "ctrl"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-2
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "ctrl"
Key $MODKEY-3
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "stat"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-3
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "stat"
Key $MODKEY-4
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "msg"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-4
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "msg"
Key $MODKEY-5
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "img"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-5
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "img"
Key $MODKEY-6
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "vid"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-6
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "vid"
Key $MODKEY-7
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "misc"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-7
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "misc"
Key $MODKEY-8
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "misc1"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-8
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "misc1"
Key $MODKEY-9
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "misc2"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-9
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "misc2"
Key $MODKEY-0
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "misc3"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-0
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "misc3"
wi_events events local_events
# WM Configuration
wmiir write /ctl <<!
font $WMII_FONT
focuscolors $WMII_FOCUSCOLORS
normcolors $WMII_NORMCOLORS
grabmod $MODKEY
border 1
# Misc
progsfile="$(wmiir namespace)/.proglist"
action status &
wi_proglist $PATH >$progsfile &
wmiir xwrite /ctl "colmode default"
xsetroot -solid "$WMII_BACKGROUND" &
# Autostart (this is ghetto, i know)
echo -n view ctrl | wmiir write /ctl;urxvtc -e ssh 192.168.1.55 -p 228 &
urxvtc -e ssh [email protected] -p 228 &
sleep 1.5 && urxvtc &
sleep 2 && wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel right &
sleep 2.5 && echo -n view stat | wmiir write /ctl;urxvtc -e vifm &
sleep 2.5 && urxvtc -e alsamixer &
sleep 3 && urxvtc -e htop &
sleep 3.5 && wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel left &
sleep 4 && echo -n view msg | wmiir write /ctl;pidgin &
sleep 3.5 && echo -n view web | wmiir write /ctl;wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl colmode sel stack;uzbl-browser &
# Setup Tag Bar
IFS="$wi_newline"
wmiir rm $(wmiir ls -p /lbar) >/dev/null
seltag=$(wmiir read /tag/sel/ctl | sed 1q)
unset IFS
wi_tags | while read tag
do
if [ "$tag" = "$seltag" ]; then
echo "$WMII_FOCUSCOLORS" "$tag"
else
echo "$WMII_NORMCOLORS" "$tag"
fi | wmiir create "/lbar/$tag"
done
wi_eventloop
Also I should mention this is wmii-hg. I like hg better then 3.9 because in 3.9 the columns are all screwed up.
I.E I like fixed column sizes where the right column is always smaller then the left no matter which side you move the client to. (difficult to explain)
Last edited by tjwoosta (2010-07-01 03:23:06)

Mike,
You were close. Split returns an array, not a string.
// form1.page1.subform1.foo::exit - (JavaScript, client)
var wordCnt = new Array();
var str = this.rawValue;
wordCnt = str.split(" ");
xfa.host.messageBox("There are " + wordCnt.length + " words.");
Steve

[solved] Wmii + Dualmonitors

Hello all,
Short version: do dual monitors work with wmii?
I *finally* ordered a new monitor from Radioshack after I got a nice gift card in the mail from them (I guess I won a contest or something.) Anyway, I'd like to continue to use my 10 year old CRT (heh, it works) in a dual head setup.
I have the latest proprietary NVIDIA driver (190.53?).
My window manager is wmii. Now, I've heard some stories about wmii + dual head while googling. Some posts from a few years ago say that, no wmii doesn't support dual head. I've also seen some along the lines of "Yes, it supports dual head, but not the way I like."
So, I'd really, really, really like to continue using wmii. I'm very comfortable with it, and I've made it my own...and just...want to keep using it
So, my question is: has anyone gotten wmii to work nicely with two monitors and the NVIDIA drivers?
Thanks!
Last edited by lasu1 (2010-03-24 21:33:13)

Ya, I use startx after logging in.
The dual X sessions interests me most, I think. I like the idea of having two separate, independent sessions (or shold I say displays?)
I have a question, though. How does this work? Is this actually one X working at once, but outputting to two independent displays OR is it two, separate X sessions--like one on tty1 and another on tty2? So, do the two displays share the same processes, except for the desktop output? Maybe I'm a little confused about how X works -- so, if I do, for example /etc/rc.d/alsa restart will alsa restart in BOTH X displays? (I assume it would, because they'd be accessing the same Alsa process?)
I hope the above made sense...
So, if my ~/.xinitrc has the exec wmii, & exec wmii (in the correct format), will I be able to use the same input devices? I've been reading NVIDIA's X server documentation (pretty good stuff in there), and it would seem so...I'm curious how this has worked for other users.
Thanks for all of the replies so far.
Last edited by lasu1 (2010-03-22 20:22:46)

Wmii matrix theme

Due to popular request I will explain how I set up my matrix wmii desktop theme. I'm using wmii-hg from aur.
Why you should use this theme:
- Your friends will think you are a l33t h4x0r
- Green is easy on the eye when using your computer in a room with all the lights off
- If you are a fan of the matrix you will love this
Screenshot:
Programs used in screenshot:
urxvt (terminal)
thunar (file manager)
cmatrix (matrix code emulator)
weechat (irc client)
htop (process viewer)
archey (system information)
vim (editor)
Note that I didnt have a vim color scheme in this screenshot but If you cant live without syntax highlighting then I recommend using the elflord colorscheme.
Type this command in to vim or add it to your ~/.vimrc.
:colorscheme elflord
Theme information:
Font: Terminus
Icon theme: Any Color You Like 0.8 (#00CC00)
GTK theme: Terminus
How to set up icon theme
1. Download the icon theme here.
2. Run the file script.sh in your terminal
3. Enter this 6 digit hex number when it prompts for what color to use:
#00CC00
4. Move the folder ACYL_Icon_Theme_0.8 to /usr/share/icons as root:
5. Add this to your ~/.gtkrc-2.0. If the file doesnt exist then create it.
gtk-icon-theme-name="ACYL_Icon_Theme_0.8"
How to set up GTK theme
1. Download the GTK theme here
2. Extract and move to /usr/share/themes as root.
3. Add this to your ~/.gtkrc-2.0.
gtk-theme-name="terminus"
How to set up GTK font
1. Install the font package
$ pacman -S terminus-font
2. Add this to your ~/.gtkrc-2.0
gtk-font-name="Terminus 9"
Config files:
~/.Xdefaults
! urxvt ---------------------------------------------------------------------
URxvt.buffered: true
URxvt.background: black
URxvt.foreground: #00cc00
URxvt.cursorColor: #00ff00
URxvt.underlineColor: green
#URxvt.font: xft:profont:pixelsize=11:antialias=false
URxvt.font: xft:Terminus:pixelsize=12:antialias=false
URxvt.saveLines: 1024
URxvt.scrollTtyKeypress: true
URxvt.scrollWithBuffer: false
URxvt.scrollBar: false
URxvt.perl-ext: default,matcher
URxvt.urlLauncher: /usr/bin/firefox
URxvt.matcher.button: 1
#URxvt.perl-ext-common: default,tabbed
! transparency ---------------------------------------------------------------
!URxvt*inheritPixmap: true
!URxvt*tintColor: black
!URxvt*shading: 40
! terminal colors ------------------------------------------------------------
! matrix colorscheme by zowki
*foreground: #000000
*background: #00cc00
! Normal
! color0 black
! color1 red
! color2 green
! color3 yellow
! color4 blue
! color5 purple
! color6 cyan
! color7 white
*color0: #000000
*color1: #55ff55
*color2: #00cc00
*color3: #00cc00
*color4: #005500
*color5: #55ff55
*color6: #00cc00
*color7: #00cc00
! Light
! color8 black
! color9 red
! color10 green
! color11 yellow
! color12 blue
! color13 purple
! color14 cyan
! color15 white
*color8: #000000
*color9: #55ff55
*color10: #55ff55
*color11: #55ff55
*color12: #005500
*color13: #55ff55
*color14: #55ff55
*color15: #00cc00
~/.wmii-3.5/wmiirc
#!/bin/sh -f
# Configure wmii
# Configuration Variables
MODKEY=Mod1
UP=k
DOWN=j
LEFT=h
RIGHT=l
# Colors tuples: "<text> <background> <border>"
WMII_NORMCOLORS='#00cc00 #000000 #00cc00'
WMII_FOCUSCOLORS='#000000 #00cc00 #00cc00'
WMII_BACKGROUND='#000000'
WMII_FONT='cure'
set -- $(echo $WMII_NORMCOLORS $WMII_FOCUSCOLORS)
WMII_MENU="dmenu -b -fn '$WMII_FONT' -nf '$1' -nb '$2' -sf '$4' -sb '$5'"
WMII_9MENU="wmii9menu -font '$WMII_FONT' -nf '$1' -nb '$2' -sf '$4' -sb '$5' -br '$6'"
WMII_TERM="urxvt"
# Column Rules
wmiir write /colrules <<!
/.*/ -> 58+42
# Tagging Rules
wmiir write /tagrules <<!
/XMMS.*/ -> ~
/MPlayer.*/ -> ~
/.*/ -> sel
/.*/ -> 1
# Status Bar Info
status() {
echo -n $(acpi -b | sed 's/.*, \{0,2\}$[0-9]\{1,3\}%$,.*/Bat: \1 | /') '|' $(uptime |
sed 's/.*://; s/,//g') '|' $(date)
# Event processing
# Processed later by `wmiiloop' and evaled.
# Duplicate the eval line and replace 'eval' with 'echo' for details.
eventstuff() {
cat <<'!'
# Events
Event Start
case "$1" in
wmiirc)
exit;
esac
Event Key
fn=$(echo "$@" | sed 's/[^a-zA-Z_0-9]/_/g')
Key_$fn "$@"
Event CreateTag
echo "$WMII_NORMCOLORS" "$@" | wmiir create "/lbar/$@"
Event DestroyTag
wmiir remove "/lbar/$@"
Event FocusTag
wmiir xwrite "/lbar/$@" "$WMII_FOCUSCOLORS" "$@"
Event UnfocusTag
wmiir xwrite "/lbar/$@" "$WMII_NORMCOLORS" "$@"
Event UrgentTag
shift
wmiir xwrite "/lbar/$@" "*$@"
Event NotUrgentTag
shift
wmiir xwrite "/lbar/$@" "$@"
Event LeftBarClick
shift
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "$@"
# Actions
Action quit
wmiir xwrite /ctl quit
Action exec
wmiir xwrite /ctl exec "$@"
Action rehash
proglist $PATH >$progsfile
Action status
set +xv
if wmiir remove /rbar/status 2>/dev/null; then
sleep 2
fi
echo "$WMII_NORMCOLORS" | wmiir create /rbar/status
while status | wmiir write /rbar/status; do
sleep 1
done
Event ClientMouseDown
client=$1; button=$2
case "$button" in
3)
do=$(eval $WMII_9MENU -initial "${menulast:-SomeRandomName}" Nop Delete Fullscreen)
case "$do" in
Delete)
wmiir xwrite /client/$client/ctl kill;;
Fullscreen)
wmiir xwrite /client/$client/ctl Fullscreen on;;
esac
menulast=${do:-"$menulast"}
esac
# Key Bindings
Key $MODKEY-Control-t
case $(wmiir read /keys | wc -l | tr -d ' \t\n') in
0|1)
echo -n $Keys | tr ' ' '\012' | wmiir write /keys
wmiir xwrite /ctl grabmod $MODKEY;;
wmiir xwrite /keys $MODKEY-Control-t
wmiir xwrite /ctl grabmod Mod3;;
esac
Key $MODKEY-space
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select toggle
Key $MODKEY-d
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl colmode sel default
Key $MODKEY-s
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl colmode sel stack
Key $MODKEY-m
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl colmode sel max
Key $MODKEY-a
Action $(actionlist | eval $WMII_MENU) &
Key $MODKEY-p
sh -c "$(eval $WMII_MENU <$progsfile)" &
Key $MODKEY-t
wmiir xwrite /ctl "view $(tagsmenu)" &
Key $MODKEY-Return
eval $WMII_TERM &
Key $MODKEY-Shift-space
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel toggle
Key $MODKEY-f
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/ctl Fullscreen toggle
Key $MODKEY-Shift-c
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/ctl kill
Key $MODKEY-Shift-t
wmiir xwrite "/client/$(wmiir read /client/sel/ctl)/tags" "$(tagsmenu)" &
Key $MODKEY-$LEFT
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select left
Key $MODKEY-$RIGHT
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select right
Key $MODKEY-$DOWN
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select down
Key $MODKEY-$UP
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl select up
Key $MODKEY-Shift-$LEFT
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel left
Key $MODKEY-Shift-$RIGHT
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel right
Key $MODKEY-Shift-$DOWN
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel down
Key $MODKEY-Shift-$UP
wmiir xwrite /tag/sel/ctl send sel up
for i in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9; do
cat <<!
Key $MODKEY-$i
wmiir xwrite /ctl view "$i"
Key $MODKEY-Shift-$i
wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "$i"
done
# WM Configuration
wmiir write /ctl << EOF
font $WMII_FONT
focuscolors $WMII_FOCUSCOLORS
normcolors $WMII_NORMCOLORS
grabmod $MODKEY
border 1
EOF
export WMII_MENU WMII_9MENU WMII_FONT WMII_TERM
export WMII_FOCUSCOLORS WMII_SELCOLORS WMII_NORMCOLORS
# Feed events to `wmiiloop' for processing
eval "$(eventstuff | sed 's/^[ ]//' | { . wmiiloop; })"
echo "$Keys" | tr ' ' '\n' | wmiir write /keys
# Functions
Action() {
action=$1; shift
if [ -n "$action" ]; then
Action_$action "$@" \
|| conf_which $action "$@"
fi
proglist() {
paths=$(echo "$@" | sed 'y/:/ /')
ls -lL $paths 2>/dev/null \
| awk '$1 ~ /^[^d].*x/ && NF > 2 { print $NF }' \
| sort | uniq
# Misc
progsfile="$WMII_NS_DIR/.proglist"
Action status &
proglist $PATH >$progsfile &
xsetroot -solid "$WMII_BACKGROUND" &
# Setup Tag Bar
seltag="$(wmiir read /tag/sel/ctl 2>/dev/null)"
wmiir ls /lbar |
while read bar; do
wmiir remove "/lbar/$bar"
done
wmiir ls /tag | sed -e 's|/||; /^sel$/d' |
while read tag; do
if [ "X$tag" = "X$seltag" ]; then
echo "$WMII_FOCUSCOLORS" "$tag" | wmiir create "/lbar/$tag"
else
echo "$WMII_NORMCOLORS" "$tag" | wmiir create "/lbar/$tag"
fi
done
# More functions
tagsmenu() {
wmiir ls /tag | sed 's|/||; /^sel$/d' | eval $WMII_MENU
actionlist() {
{ proglist $WMII_CONFPATH
echo -n $Actions | tr ' ' '\012'
} | sort | uniq
conf_which() {
which=$(which which)
prog=$(PATH="$WMII_CONFPATH" $which $1); shift
[ -n "$prog" ] && $prog "$@"
# Stop any running instances of wmiirc
echo Start wmiirc | wmiir write /event || exit 1
wmiir read /event |
while read event; do
set -- $event
event=$1; shift
Event_$event $@
done 2>/dev/null
~/.zshrc (just the prompt)
PROMPT=$'%B[%b%n@%m%B]%b[%b%~%B]
%B╼%b '
Enjoy!
Last edited by zowki (2010-05-06 16:29:27)

vampt3k wrote:
SWEET!!! Thanks.
I want to my friends to think I'm a 1337 h4x0r as well (except I like blue better )
One question, I'm using GNOME. Does wmii go on top of Gnome? Because I notice in your "archey" it says:
"Desktop Environment: None Found"
What does that mean? You are not using a desktop environment?
Thanks. I'm in the process of removing of reformatting my laptop wit Arch Linux and I want it to look exactly like this ... except blue
If you like it blue, you may just try exchanging the G and B in the RGB color hex in all the colors from zowki's theme, e.g. #xxyyzz ==> #xxzzyy; in theory, this way you make a righteous blue version from the original green
To do that, try something like this:
sed -i 's/$#[0-9a-f]\{2\}$$[0-9a-f]\{2\}$$[0-9a-f]\{2\}$/\1\3\2/ig' <file>
@zowki, how crazy! Why not make a PKGBUILD/tarball out of it ? jk
Last edited by lolilolicon (2010-02-21 09:08:36)

What's the difference in the user experience of ion3, wmii and dwm.

I want to try something new, especially some new concepts, not just another wm, nor I actually 'need' something - in the moment xfce just works for me. Of course, I have thoroughly read the (available) documentation of these WMs and tested a session, but they are all too different and I feel I need some shared experience in order to decide in which one to invest more time. I would like to ask people that have wider experience to spot some strong or weak points of each WM - but in no way it should be like 'this one is better' or sth. - especially ones that are not instantly obvious - from the descriptions on the home site or limited testing,
For example - wmii talk 9P, and this sound really cool, but I have no damn idea how this could be actually useful. Dwm is extremely minimalist, and I am not sure if it is not too minimalist to be practical.
Again, I don't need advice like what Wm to choose (which is essentially a stupid question), but just mentioning peculiar spots of each one, especially not instantly obvious ones.
Thank you in advance.
P.S. If there is already a topic, that is close to that, I'll appreciate provided link - my search found just general WM topics, as well as topics for specific WM, which was useful, but not completely enough.
P.P.S. If someone thinks ratpoison is unfairly ignored, one may provide its advantages, although I just somehow do not like it (nothing reasanoble)

The three (and I'll throw in Ratpoison because I love it) seem to have distinct approaches to the way you're expected to use windows.
DWM expects you to have one main window focused and a few others that you do want to see, but don't need to have focused at full size. The way it puts them along the edge is pretty nice on a widescreen monitor. Virtual desktops are provided since it would be a pain to cycle all the way through your window list whenever you wanted to change.
wmii seems (I only played with it a little) to be based largely on columns. This is very similar to Plan 9's editor Acme. Heck, when I first saw the screen shot on the wmii page I thought I was looking at Acme. You divide the screen into (usually two) columns and can arrange your windows within those as you choose. It's a fairly nice approach, marrying the simplicity of DWM's "main window" concept with the flexibility of other managers by having only a couple of "places" for windows (the columns), but multiple windows in each, whose exact positioning doesn't matter much. Tags are substituted for conventional workspaces. I haven't played with this feature.
Ion3 (which I used for a while) is based on the idea that you will divide the screen into just a couple of panes, and group your windows into those. Most of your windows will be invisible at any given time, but you can get to them all easily with the tab strip at the top of each pane, showing its associated windows. In this WM each window is in a definite place, unlike in Ratpoison, in which hidden windows are just hidden, and associated with no pane in particular. Ion also assumes that you will have some programs that don't play nice with a tiled manager, and allows the creation of virtual desktops that contain floating windows. Virtual desktops in this WM are pretty much the same as those in your standard floating WM.
The key to "getting" Ratpoison (which I have used a lot, and am using now) is that unlike the other three, you're not expected to have a complex layout of screen panes. Although you could create something of arbitrary complexity using the vertical and horizontal spit commands, it would quickly become a nightmare to work with, and there is no easy way to switch between layouts because, while you can save and load them, windows are not associated with particular panes on the screen, and will end up who-knows where. Instead, a Ratpoison user wants to switch between windows by hitting ^T (remappable, I use my Windows key) and then the number that was assigned when each window was created. As you may notice, this is how screen works as well. You quickly learn to remember these numbers, just like a screen user or Nethack player. 90% of the time I work with only one window on the screen switching between it and my alternate window, and the other 9% of the time I have two windows (mostly when I want to drag and drop things, but sometimes for reference material). 1% of the time I might hit three or [gasp!] four.
While the other three WMs seek to make it easier to manage your on screen windows, Ratpoison takes the approach that you probably don't need to have more than a couple of windows on screen at one time. Based on this logic, Ratpoison doesn't provide virtual desktops. If your windows aren't on screen, why do you need more virtual screens for them not to be on? Ratpoison does provide window groups, which serve a similar function. Unlike virtual desktops, switching groups does not change what's on your screen; it only changes the list of windows you are working with. This may sound like a pain, but keep in mind that you, as a Ratpoison user, probably have fewer than two panes on your screen. It's not hard to switch both of those to something else, and half the time you only want to change one of them (e.g. drag and drop between window groups). Ratpoison also supports multiple screens, which are treated much like panes on a single screen, except of course you can not delete them (senseless) or move windows between them (X11 limitation; not Ratpoison specific).
Another nice Ratpoison feature is that you can tell it not to manage certain windows, and you can tell it to leave some padding between windows and the edge of the screen. So I can run an unmanaged Rox sidebar to hold try icons, status monitors, a trash can, and volume control, and reserve that space for it with some padding. I can also remove that padding or change its size if I want to cover the sidebar.
Last edited by pauldonnelly (2007-04-22 19:52:16)

Veeeeeery noob-like questions about fluxbox

Hi all, i sat up today my first-ever flux and i have 2 questions:
1) how do i setup shell transparency? i have xbcompmgr launching before flux into .xinitrc, but urxvt still has black background (when i use awesome/wmii wms it works)
2) i have dual head set up with xrandr (LVDS1 1366X768 and VGA1 1024X768) and sometimes when i fullscreen windows, they exceed boundaries or don't show titlebar (so i cannot move them around, which apparently fixes all) any help here?
and if you have any suggestions on what i can use (actually i just tryed batterymon and i like it) to improve my flux, everything is welcome thanks all!

Sure!
#!/bin/bash
# fluxbox startup-script:
# Lines starting with a '#' are ignored.
# Change your keymap:
xmodmap "$HOME/.Xmodmap"
# Applications you want to run with fluxbox.
# MAKE SURE THAT APPS THAT KEEP RUNNING HAVE AN & AT THE END.
# unclutter -idle 2 &
# wmnd &
# wmsmixer -w &
# idesk &
# And last but not least we start fluxbox.
# Because it is the last app you have to run it with exec before it.
xcompmgr &
batterymon &
fbsetbg -l &
exec fluxbox
# or if you want to keep a log:
# exec fluxbox -log "$fluxdir/log"

Avoiding ctrl/super/alt/shift in wmii (or other?)

Hi,
I hate it when I need to use the ctrl/super/alt/shift or similar keys. I like to keep my fingers on the home row, the row above and below those are fine too, but when I need to go below that (eg common key combo's like ctrl+<something>) I find I need to cramp my fingers/hands into very awkward positions. Is there anyone who finds typing ctrl+<something> or similar comfortable?
I would like to avoid using any of these keys at all costs. In vim they are not common which is great, but in wmii they are very common because ctrl+h/j/k/l and shift+ctrl+h/j/k/l are very common shortcuts there. Sure you can change ctrl to super/alt but I find all options very awkward, even painful.
I tried setting MODKEY to a (because it's on my homerow) and to Space (very accessible with thumb) in my wmiirc.
This seems to work for some keys like mod+a, mod+p, mod+h, but other keys will break (eg you can't even type in a terminal like this).
Any help/ideas appreciated.

Some people use CapsLock as Ctrl. You'll still have to reach out for it, but it's at least a little closer. This doesn't help much for the other modifiers, though.
For window management, you might consider using keychaining and use e.g. Space as the global keychain prefix key, and have a "Space-Space" pass through the space key to the focused application. (This is the way screen handles it,Ctrl-a is the prefix key, Ctrl-a-a passes through C-a). Back in the days of wmi keychains were implemented in this way, i don't know about wmii, though. You'll very soon get used to typing a double space (or double "a") if you really mean a "space" or "a", but whenever you sit down at a different machine you'll find yourself typing double spaces or "aa". This isn't ideal, I for one use Ctrl-t as my prefix key, but then i don't mind using ctrl...
Maybe you could build yourself some kind of footswitch board that sends modifier keys, so you can keep typing and press Ctrl/alt/super etc with your feet. (Whether that might lead to ergonomic problems is a different question). That's the only way I see to completely avoid pressing modifiers with your fingers, because you'll always have apps that insist on using these modifiers.

Wmii + dbus/hal and automount of usb driver/memory card

Laptop is UL30A. One question. Will USB be automounted when I'm in wmii, or will this just work in gnome?

Hi!
I have one tiny question!
I'm about to make standalone Openbox desktop.
For FM I will use PCmanFM and I've found out that it does automounting job.
So the question is do I need volume manager such as skvm or udev rule or everything will work only with proper HAL policy and PCmanFM?
Thanks in advance

Question about video driver and window manager

Dear All:
I have been using Arch for a couple of months now and I am absolutely amazed by how top of the line this system is.
Congratulations and thank you to all the developers!
A couple of questions for anybody interested in these topics:
1) Do people usually use open-source video drivers, or proprietary? What are the advantages/disadvantages of either solution, in terms of stability and performance? (I have an ATI Radeon Mobility graphics card on an IBM T43 laptop). Also, I use dual-head with an external NEC lcd display using MergedFramebuffer, but I notice that the external monitor is not set completely well. Looking closely at the black background standard in Openpox, for example, I notice a constant flickering of the pixels. Can it be because I am not using the proprietary ATI driver?
2) What is, in your opinion, the fastest and most reliable window manager? I wonder whether somebody has run objective comparisons.
I fell in love with wmii recently, but managed to crash it twice when I tried to run kmail (perhaps because this application is not wm-independent?).
Also, applications seem to respond the fastest in fvwm on my system!? Isn't wmii supposed to be the fastest, being the lightest?
Thank you for your help!

There's two different pages for this model on the Toshiba site depending on the DVD
DVD-Multi
DVD-R/RW
Concerning the memory you can check on different memory suppliers like Orca, Crucial, Offtek etc. This is the Orca page
http://www.orcalogic.co.uk/asp/prodtype.asp?prodtype=27947&ft=m&st=3

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