Xserver RAID options

I just purchased an Intel xserve with three 750 GB drives, and see there was no hardware RAID option. I would be OK with just mirroring 2 of the 750s, and keeping the 3rd as a spare, but during setup, it just assumed I wanted to install the OS on one drive, without a mirror.
OK fine. I then went into disk utility, and figured I could just add a second drive as a mirror. I have set up software mirrors on Windows servers, and the is an option to "add this volume as a mirror". Is there a way to do this?
Also, I would like to know how you have all set up your servers. Have you just used a single drive for your OS? I am just not comfortable doing this. If, not, what have you done?
TIA for any suggestions!
Enio

I am a new Xserve user and I am of the opinion that Apple could do more to explain:
1 - the RAID limitations of Xserve and
2 - the limitations of the 'free' 90 day support.
In both cases it is either difficult or impossible to obtain this information prior to purchase!
An Apple support person agreed with me that they could do more to assist those who want to use the OS X soft RAID rather than let them discover after a few hours playing that they should have ignored the instructions supplied and formatted two disks as RAID 1 and then installed everything afresh from the CD.
I decided to spend a little longer and reformat with Disk Utility and got RAID 1 working although there are a few holes in the instructions - ie which of the various icons should one click on!
Others may wish to see the following technical reply from Apple:
"I cannot give you any information if there will be a hardware raid option in the future. However I found a method to create a mirror without destroying the contents of the source disk. It requires the command-line however. You can use the command diskutil with the option enable raid. http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man8/diskutil .8.html A step by step guide can be found here: http://www.afp548.com/article.php?story=20040827122302975 Your support contract does not cover command-line assistance but you could purchase a support agreement for £455."
Xserve Mac OS X (10.4.9)

Similar Messages

Repair Utility for xServe RAID?

We have an xServe with an attached RAID consisting of four 350 GB drives. The drives are set up as a RAID. Due to storms/hot weather (air conditioning failed) the server restarted and the RAID powered down. The xServe is fine but the RAID is not functioning. From RAID Admin the drives all show up and are OK but the array is not showing up. Is there any disk repair utility that would be useful on a RAID?
xServe RAID Mac OS X (10.4.6)
xServe RAID Mac OS X (10.4.6)

The fact that it's showing up as spares is a significant problem. The host won't recognize it until the RAID recognizes the array. There is no separate utility to help you with this, other than RAID Admin.
What firmware version is on the array? If it's 1.5, there's a "recognize array" option that you should try. If it's an older version, I'd tell you it would be nice if you could have gone back in time and upgraded the firmware. Since that's not possible, you should call AppleCare (assuming you have got APS&S for Xserve RAID, or the machine is < 1 year old) and inquire about your options.

XSERV RAID FIBER CHANNEl

We have XSERV RAID MODEL A1009 with 4 Hard disk RAID 5.
Now I have installed CISCO 1000Base SX Module in 3 COM Switch & other same Module in XSERVER RAID. Now XSERVE RAID & switcted with Transeiver cable. Now I check RAID ADMIN TOOL FIber Channel Option the links shows down.
Let me know what is solution. Please also let me know how can I know that fiber link is up if any way.

Finisar makes a nice SFP to LC transceiver (available on the Apple Store for $99.95 for 2 Gbit and $119.95 for 4 Gbit) that you can use in the Xserve to allow it to accept LC optical cables. You'll need 2 of these, and then you can hook up LC optical cables.
I'll echo the other post -- be aware those ports are for fibre channel communication ONLY. You must hook it to a fibre channel card (HBA) in a host, or to a fibre switch (i.e. Cisco MDX 9000 series). You cannot hook up a network connection to those ports -- Xserve RAID provides data ONLY over fibre channel, it is not a NAS device. You must connect it to a host which can re-share the data over Ethernet, for example Xserve RAID with OS X Server which can reshare using AFP, SMB/CIFS, NFS, FTP, DAV, and more.

Xserve RAID installing Firewire 800

Hi,
would like to know if it is possible to replace nor insert a firewire800 card on an Xserve RAID?
at the moment we can't afford yet to use Fiber Channel, so we are wondering if we can use the RAID in firewire connection?
Let me know...
Best Regards

Using XServe RAID? No.
The XServe RAID uses a Fiber Channel interface to the host system. FireWire is not an option.
Im not sure I understand your question, though. The cost of the Fiber Channel card for the host system is $500, not much when you consider the cost of the XServe RAID itself. If you already have an XServe RAID then there's not really much additional cost.
On the other hand, if you don't have an XServe RAID and you're looking for a RAID solution (not necessarily an XServe RAID), then you can build a RAID system out of any attached drives, whether they're FireWire, S/ATA, SCSI, or any other supported interface.

XServe RAID Sharing

Well, after many hours of heartache I skipped the pre-config options and am doing it the old fashioned way -- much easier.
Question: how come my clients can't see volumes mounted to the server? I have an xServe RAID fibre-channel attached to my xServe, but none of the client can reach the volume. Oddly, they can ping its IP though.
Any thoughts much appreciated

Unless I have missed something - leaving room for a mistake here - I would recommend people NOT upgrade from 10.3.9 server to Tiger server based on our ACL permission problems. If I had read this somewhere, I would have not upgraded. I was also told this "bug" we so enjoy would not be fixed until Leopard is released - circa Oct 2007.
I spent the night Thursday redoing the Tiger server install - from the ground up. Hand coded all users and only used the builtin staff group.
Using all the available tips I proceeded to:
1) turn on ACL for volumes.
2) reboot
3) set POSIX owner to "diradmin" (open directory owner) for all points that will be shared read write
4) set POSIX group ownership to "staff" read write
5) set POSIX everyone to read write
6) dragged staff group into ACL and set to full control
7) propagated each point
8) rebooted
9) enabled sharepoints
10) rebooted
a few hours later I am receiving calls from staff members that are creating documents that can't make changes to their new documents. Of course I am at home asleep because I was up for 24 hours before I went home. Had I been awake, I would be assured I was living a nightmare which really began a few weeks ago, the day we decided to finally use our Tiger server installer.
The most valuable tip I ran across is very poorly highlighted, the fact that you CANNOT propagate root owned files and folders. We all know that root/system owned files and folders are the ideal server side rights. What in the freaking world would posess anyone to change that??????? and not provide adaquate warning. So I will reiterate here because many people are missing this crucial point.
YOU CANNOT PROPAGATE ROOT/SYSTEM OWNED FILES AND FOLDERS PERMISSIONS
Even if you could, you are not guarenteed that ACLs will work. They simply don't work at all here - bug!
No, I'm not erasing 11 terabytes of storage to see if that helps. It didn't work on the internal 200 gb drives.
sincerely, Bugie
XServe G4

Suggested methods for full backup of XServe RAID data

I know this is only peripherally related to the discussion topic, but since every other suggestion posted here is followed by the disclaimer that you should make a full backup of your data before proceeding with any major operations on your RAID arrays, I'd like to know what more experienced admins do in order to create a full backup for reasonably fast recovery in case of substantial data loss during maintenance/repair.
Our current "backup" availability is incremental optical disc archival (our data is mostly "write-once"), but this isn't entirely practical for recovery since it's over a terabyte of data. Since the connected server has a free hot-swappable SCSI drive bay as well as an interface for external SCSI devices, not to mention the fiber channel and ethernet interfaces, the options that I'd consider in order would be:
1. A handful of 150-500 Gb SCSI hard drives, rotated out of the hot-swappable bay
2. An external tape drive attached to the SCI interface (with appropriate tape size, maybe the LTO-2 with 200Gb native capacity?)
3. Some other external SCSI storage device
4. Larger optical disc archival (I hear there are technologies arriving in the near future)
5. Network-based option; remote seems impractical due to sheer size, but perhaps local?
The idea is to make a full backup (long-term solutions are superior of course) of 1-2 Tb of data on the XServe RAID before attempting major surgery. Suggestions for common, accepted, tested, efficient methods for accomplishing this would be greatly appreciated. I apologize if this thread isn't on-topic enough for some of you.
-Brian

Brian,
Tape IMO is kinda yucky (to steal a term from your average 3 year old). It's fairly slow to back up to, it's very slow to restore, and it's actually not that reliable by itself (I worked with a large enterprise customer who said their backups were successful about 70% of the time (!!!)).
That said, tape has the advantage that you can offsite it and archive it very cheaply, and the media are fairly cheap, so you can make lots of backups, so if one fails, you probably can restore the data from another tape.
Disks are more expensive initially, but end up being pretty reliable, and you get a lot more flexibility (plus, they're fast).
An emerging "best of both worlds" backup strategy is what's called disk to disk to tape, where you typically back up to another large "disk," for example a second Xserve RAID. Data is then backed up from the second disk to tape, which is taken offsite... thus tape is used for what it's best at (offsite archival). Restore can be from disk in most cases, which is 10-20x faster than restoring from tape. People use software packages like Netvault's Bakbone or Atempo's Time Navigator, which can handle the whole process, and it works quite well. The backup disks (e.g. the RAID) can be onsite, or can be at a backup site a couple KM away, attached via optical (this is preferable, for DR reasons).
For cases where a second Xserve RAID is prohibitively expensive, cheaper (and slower) RAID 5 enclosures like Wiebetech's RAIDtech can provide a large (say, 1.6 TB) RAID 5 volume, accessible over FW800 or SATA (not sure if they have a SATA-based one yet).

Xserve raid right for me?

Hey all, I do video editing at ble Ray quality (Which is very high in size) and was wondering what raid is good for me. I took a look at a couple of them but the Xserve raid looks so nice and powerful with data transfer. The only prob is that the xserve raid is costly and is running older drives and everything. My question is- should I go with the xserve raid which is running older drives and has not been selling for the past two years, or should i just find some other raid to go with?

Hello,
The Xserve RAID was nice for its time, but I would suggest considering the Promise:
http://www.apple.com/server/storage/
This is Apple's preferred storage, and is much faster and more resilient than the Xserve RAID. You could optionally start out with eight drives and expand to the full sixteen when needed. The hardware is solid, and easy to configure as well.

Multiple XServe RAIDs to one computer (?)

I have an XServe RAID connected to my Quad via the Fibre Channel card. If I want to add another XServe RAID do I need to get a Fibre Channel switch? Is setting that up simple? Does it work like an ethernet switch? Is putting a second FC card in the Quad an option?

You can go either way.
Fiber channel switches are similar in concept to ethernet switches - connect everything to the switch and the Mac will be able to see all the arrays. If you're only using a single host it's pretty much that simple - if you have multiple hosts connected, though, it gets more complex since you have to use some kind of LUN masking to make sure each host sees the array(s) it's supposed to, and not the others.
On the other hand you can install a second fiber channel card and connect the second array to that - it's easier and cheaper than the fiber channel switch option, but obviously there's a limit as to how many arrays you can grow to in this manner (basically, the number of spare PCI slots you have in your system.
A fiber channel switch has the better long-term growth potential. You'll need to decide whether you think you'll add any more arrays in the future.

Multiple Xserve RAID's presented to one XServe

Can more than one Xserve RAID box be presented to a single XServe computer? The XServe user manual indicates only the upper PCI slot may be used for a FC HBA. A dual port FC HBA allows me to connect to one Xserve RAID- both controllers. If I want to connect to additional XServe RAID boxes, what are my options (other than XSAN)?
Thank you in advance.
XServe Mac OS X (10.4.7)

It has always been my understanding that this is possible, but I haven't actually configured such a system. If you want "real world" confirmation you may have to check with Camelot or DaddyPayCheck about this exact set-up. I have experience plugging multiple Xserves into single RAIDs but not the other way around yet.
I have done the logical equivalent and hooked up an Xserve to a switch with only one cable (the other routed to a backup device) and had two RAID sides attached to the switch which worked fine.To me this demonstrates the "sides > connector" set-up as functional but I understand if you want more proof.
Apple assumes you're going to switched fabric set-up once you pass 1 to 1 connections and multiple RAIDs attached to the fabric are not a problem. You do, of course, loose the ability to push the edge of performance so something HD video in this environment is not feasible.
HTH,
=Tod

Xserve, G5, Xserve RAID and fibre channel question

hi guys,
I have a Xserve conneted to Xserve RAID right now. Is it possible connect G5 to Xserve RAID thru fibre channel ? thanks

>is it possible to do ?
Not in the way you describe, no.
The XServe RAID's 14 drives are connected to two separate controllers. Drives 1-7 are connected to the upper controller. Drives 8-14 are connected to the lower one.
If your XServe is currently connected to the upper controller it's talking to drives 1-7.
If you connect the G5 to the lower controller it will be talking to drives 8-14.
Therefore you cannot use this setup to backup the data via the G5.
At the very, very least you need a fiber channel switch so that both the XServe and the G5 can connect to the same controller. However, as Tod has already mentioned, it is tricky to get multiple machines talking to the same RAID drives while avoiding corruption (there's no concept of arbitration, or ways of preventing one machine from editing a file that's in use by the other machine).
You have two basic options - one is to implement XSAN, which will handle the arbitration issue, the other is to configure the G5 to mount the RAID read-only. This should prevent the G5 from modifying a file while it's in use by the XServe (which may be sufficient for backup purposes), but you may still run into issues when the G5 tries to backup a file that's actively in use by the XServe.
In all honesty, a better solution would either to get a SCSI card that works with the XServe and do it all there, or use file sharing between the XServe and the G5 and backup over the network - it'll be slower, but a lot more reliable.

How to low-format disks in XServer RAID

I am new to the macworld and have been assigned a mission to low-format 2 XServer RAID with 28x400Gb Hitachi Deskstar disks. I need to low-format it because the customer is about to sell the servers, and are therefore obliged by law/or insurancecompany to make sure that no data can be restored.
I have tried to extract the disks and run them in a PC with a software called KillDisks, which writes zeros to the disk 10-fold times. However the PC will not accept the disk, im getting errors that states that no sectors can be read. Also, in BIOS the disk are supposedly 126 Gb...when in fact its capacity is 400 Gb.
Sounds like the Apple firmware is not compatible.
So, my question is...can I perform this task from inside the XServer, via some webinterface or perhaps the remote adminapplication?

I see you point but I mostly meant the need to extract/take apart the drives.
The job was to make the data (reasonably) "unrecoverable"?
(The KillDrive application can maybe even "destroy" drives for Xserve RAID use?)
Maybe not relevant here but the Xserve RAID woun't "buy"/just work with "any" drive/firmware.
He shouldn't even have to "reformat" raid-sets as you can write zeroes to each whole raid-set volume from the Disk Utility using the "security option" (will take a lot of time though - but probably much less time than doing it for each drive individually - if JBOD or otherwise).
Maybe even possibly started from OS X install DVD (if servers are "wiped"). Don't know if FC drivers are present on the DVD, but think they are.
(Also a "Mirror Door" G4 or Xserve G4 can probably "format" (really initialize) these drives and can at least hold up to 4 drives at a time.)
And you can manage (but not erase drives/volumes on) the Xserve RAID from any computer (if you know the IP) using the Java RAID_Admin.jar file that is "extractable" from The OS X version file (.app) "package". And it can be run on (most?) OSes that can run Java. Certainly from Windows with Java installed.
And you don't buy a couple of old preowned used Xserve RAIDs and spend a huge amount to restore data if you don't think/know it's REALLY worth the while.

Need second Xserve RAID, need advice

We have 1 Xserve RAID with 14 x 400Gb Drives, It is RAID 50
we are rapidly using up the space and need to know the easiest method for adding capacity.
We want the two RAIDs to show up as a single volume, so when we buy the second Xserve RAID will it need to be the same capacity as the first i.e 14 x 400Gb drives?
Also what is the procedure for adding this second RAID, will it involve backing up the data, wiping and rebuilding both RAIDs as RAID 50. or is there a way to do this without wiping data?
Anyone who has been in this position I would be grateful of their advice

First off, ideally the arrays should be the same size. Mixing drive sizes in an array is never a good idea. Usually the RAID controller will base the array on the smallest volume in the set and just use whatever it needs from the others, leaving the rest of the space unused (and inaccessible). e.g. if you try to RAID a 500GB volume and a 750GB volume, the 750GB volume will be treated like a 500GB volume and you lose the extra 250GB.
By far the safest option is to do as you describe - backup the data, rebuild the array and restore the data.
There is one other option, though, that might work, but I'd still backup the data before trying it.
diskutil has an addToRAID option which allows the addition of an extra drive to a RAID set. I've only ever used it on RAID 1 mirrors, never on a RAID 0 stripe, so I don't know if it'll work, but it might be worth trying. You don't have anything to lose.
Note that this kind of expansion isn't really viable long-term. If you expect to do this frequently you might consider alternative options like XSAN which can add any sized volume to a virtual pool of storage, growing organically.

Expanding a XServe RAID and Striping

Greetings!
I have an XServe RAID with four 250 GB ADMs inside the 1-4 slots of the Upper or left controller. This one array totals 701.27 GB at RAID 5 showing up on my Desktop as one RAID.
I recently acquired two ADMs, a 750 GB and 500 GB, and I'd like to install them in my vacant second controller on the right, slots 8-9. I'm pretty sure I can create another array with these two drives setting them at RAID 5. Then what I'd like to do is stripe the two arrays, using Disk Utility, and create a software RAID that will show up on my desktop as one RAID. (I currently use this RAID as my Final Cut Pro media drive.)
My questions are: Am I on the right path?
If I stripe them together, I will lose my data on my existing array, correct? (I have the data backed up on another external drive so when I'm done I can copy it back)
I feel is best to have one RAID rather than several. Or should I consider having two RAIDs but being cognizant that I will have to stay on top of of my Final Cut Capture Scratch media folders as I edit? (ie, Two RAIDS = two separate Capture Scratch folders. So I'd have to choose what Final Cut media will be on what RAID, etc. rather than one folder where all the media can go)
My goal down the road is to completely populate the left/top controller with 250 GB ADMs. If I do, I would assume I can expand the side with the 250's by merely using the Expansion function? Would this "upset" the prospect of having a single RAID of two striped arrays?
Thanks in advance!
System: PowerMac G5 (June 2004), Mac OS 10.4.11
Xserve: Upper Controller, 4 ADMs, 250 each, 1 Array, 1 Slice, RAID 5, 701.27 GB Total

William Lloyd wrote:
This doesn't sound like a good idea. You're mixing stuff in a variety of configurations that don't match, and if you want to stripe the two sides, they should match for optimal performance.
As in: they should all be 250 GB ADMs, right?
With the 750 GB and 500 GB drives, your options are RAID 0 (with NO protection) giving ~ 1 TB of storage, or RAID 1 (mirror) giving ~450 GB of storage. The latter is probably preferable.
So I could install them into the right side controller and make an array of the two using RAID 1 (mirror) and end up with 450 GB of storage. I'll get the protection but losing the extra storage because it would defer to the smaller size 500 GB ADM. And I can't add them to the other side where the 250 GB ADMs are because you're not supposed to mix different size ADMs on the same controller. (This is the stuff that is not in Apple's fine print when they sell it to you. You find it out either through Discussion threads or Technical Articles.)
If you were to attempt to stripe this with the other side, you'd have either 1.4 TB or 900 GB of storage, respectively. In the former case, if one of the drives on the right side failed, you would lose 100% of your data on the entire volume.
My option(s) would be: install the two non-compatible sized drives into the right side controller, combine them as a RAID 1 array and then have two separate RAIDs on my desktop, with the second RAID being physically larger than the other but actually smaller because of the incompatible 750 and 500 GB sizes. Then, when editing with Final Cut, I'd have to choose which RAID that I wanted to store my media on.
So if I were you, I'd give up trying to make it look like one volume.
Agreed. But are there any other options I can explore? I purchased the 750 and 500 GB drives naively thinking I could expand the storage of my Xserve RAID by buying larger drives. Now I'm finding out I should have purchased only 250 GB ADMs-- but they weren't available from Apple when I was able to purchase additional drives and no one told me otherwise. Until now.
Thanks for your learned reply. I guess I should have consulted with you/Xserve RAID Discussions before buying anything.

Xserve-RAID array intialising

An established array on my RAID has sudddenly begun the intilising process. Is this normal? Why would it be doing this now - it was initialised when I set it up so why now?
Also - why does the initialising proces take so incredibly long?!

Initializing? that sounds like a problem. Unless you mean either scrubbing/conditioning or rebuilding.
The former can be initiated via RAID Admin, and makes the XServe RAID check every block on the disk.
The latter may happen if a disk fails and the data needs to be replicated/rebuilt on a spare drive.
Initializing, as its name implies, involves setting up an new array. This doesn't usually (ever?) happen on its own, but only at the behest of someone using RAID Admin to manipulate the array.
As for the duration - if you're using RAID 5, creating the array performs a scrub of each disk to verify its integrity, as well as creating the initial parity data. If you enable the background option, the array is available for use immediately, even while the scrub is progressing.

XServe-RAID Offsite Backup

I was hoping to use the left controller of the RAID to backup all my clients using TimeMachine and then have the right controller mirror that on the fly (so that would be RAID 50). I was then hoping that I could swap out ALL the right controller drives to store them off-site each week.
Would that plan be possible do you think? OK to take out all drives from the right controller at the same time, leaving the left RAID5 running on its own until the new set is put into the right controller to rebuild the RAID50 again? Make sense? Possible?
Thank you, Grant

However there just doesn’t appear to be any failsafe easy solution to backup the XServe RAID for offsite storage is there. Is is quite unfortunate and surprising and I would have thought there would have been a methodology worked out for this somewhere. But from what I am hearing, there isn’t.
Xserve RAID is a storage array box, and (somewhat confusingly) it's exceedingly uncommon to back up "just a storage box." I do know a few storage controllers that offer replication capabilities, but I'm extremely suspect that the tools work reliably. Storage controllers don't have all of the context on the processing that they need to perform reliable data replication; to ensure consistency.
It's common to perform remote replication via network and tools are available to do that. You almost certainly will end up with local customizations here, too.
The tools are specific to particular application storage involved; there's no Server Time Machine here, as you need use (for instance) mysqldump or you need MySQL replication for a MySQL database, and a different tool for another database. Or you need quiesce the databases.
Which leads various folks to punt on the process, to shut down down the server, and block-clone the disks involved. To quiesce the server. That too can likely be automated, with some scripting and a controlling host.
As for the remote storage (when not using a network), getting the data off-site then depends on what removable media is available. Ultrium tape has decent capacity and good physical reliability and speed, but tends to have poor support on Mac OS X Server, and Ultrium drives and loaders tend to be expensive. Removable disks do reasonably well here, and various options are available, but they're less physically reliable than tapes. For tens of gigabytes, flash media is a potential option, though it's not the speediest of storage.
Networking can be an option here for remote storage, depending on how small your delta (churn) and how good your compression is and how big your network pipe might be; your network pipe has to be big enough to manage your maximum available window.
If you're looking for turn-key, there are commercial products which claim to deal with this stuff. And unless they're using mysqldump or such for databases, I'm professionally skeptical at the integrity of the archives they create on an active server. (I've watched the storage and data archive folks claim to have solved this for thirty years now. They can mostly solve it, too, for some values of mostly.)
[Here is a MySQL mysqldump|http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/1336] procedure, which can serve to show how to do daily, weekly or monthly archives, and how to run mysqldump tool from bash.
(I am aware of one operating system that can mirror active disk data across a data link and across hosts and across storage controllers and can operate with fully distributed shared write, and that OS obviously and specifically targets high-uptime environments, but that OS environment is not cheap. And it's not Mac OS X Server. And even that environment can't correctly capture an active database for an offline archive; even there, you need to quiesce the database or use database-specific tools.)
It'd be feasible for somebody to create a (big, hairy) tool to catch all the usual suspects on a Mac OS X Server box. But then you have to maintain it across all of the slightly-weird installations, and you also have to deal with restorations. (I'd love to write a generic one of these; this would necessarily be a superset of Time Machine. This is a big and complex project, and one that would require extensive testing.)
Server boxes are not client boxes. Servers require real work and real thought and real configuration. And as production requirements increase, they also tend to require some knowledge of the shell and of scripting and writing (or acquiring) some site-management tools.

Xserver RAID options

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