24p DV to HDCAM

Hi,
I have DVX-100 24pA NTSC DV footage in a 23.98 sequence. I want to uprez to HDCAM NTSC 23.98. The post house I'm working with recommends this workflow:
1. Within FCP, create a Quicktime 10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 (23.98 progressive)
2. 10 bit Quicktime (23.98 progressive) transferred to Digibeta 29.97.
3. Digibeta feeds into Snell & Wilcox Ukon and converted to HDCAM 23.98 progressive.
I want to maintain optimal quality as my film will be showing in a large theater on HDCAM. The post house maintains that they do conversions like this all the time, and say I need a Digibeta in order for the HDCAM to run off of timecode. We're using the Snell & Wilcox Ukon as supposedly the hardware uprezzers are superior to software.
My questions are:
A. Is it necessary to convert to 29.97 Digibeta? By making a 23.98 sequence into 29.97 and then converting back to 23.98 seems like it might create pulldown issues and doesn't seem right.
B. Can the Snell & Wilcox Ukon, Teranex or other HD uprez boxes directly convert Quicktime 10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 to HDCAM? I don't see the point of going to Digibeta just to run off of timecode.
It seems like there's the old Hollywood (expensive) way of doing this, and the DVX-FCP way that eliminates waste and high cost. Let me know if the workflow they recommend is the best option.
Thanks,
Alexander

Do you want it done right? OR done half-@$$ed? This isn't only the Hollywood way of doing it, but it is the best way of doing it.
Another way would be to simply copy and paste your clips into a 10-bit uncompressed or ProRes timeline, and render. This might pass for OK, but it is free.
Or you can use Compressor (also free) and have it take a few days or week to render this out. And the results will look good, but not as good.
Or you can invest in a Kona card and good sized RAID and output to digibeta, then recapture with the Kona 3 upconverting as you capture. This looks great...but not as good as the Wilcox or Terranex. Not free either.
Dude...you want to maintain optimal quality...and film festival and FILM BUYERS ESPECIALLY are quality critical. Don't let something distract them from your story. Do it right.
The post house knows what they are doing. They are paid to. Ask to see examples if you are wary.
Shane

Similar Messages

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    It was shot at 720/24p at 60hz meaning that the frame rate is true 24fps not 23.978fps.
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    I was only about to capture out HD-SDI into a Kona 23.978 project, the Kona presets didnt have 720/24p.
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    I would want to keep it at 24fps if at all possible otherwise the sound guys will have to restamp the audio I guess.
    Audio was recorded at 24fps straight? Should be 23.98...although audio doesn't have a frame rate. Not sure what settings they set to make it match with video.
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    I had just assumed that when you were in FCP and had the sequence set to 23.98 that it would be smooth on my monitor. Why wouldn't it be?
    Well, did you SHOOT 23.98? Look at the frame rate of the footage. Is it 29.97 or 23.98? If it is 29.97, and you put it into a 23.98 sequence...then no, it won't look good at all! FCP doesn't remove pulldown properly in the timeline. Instead of 2:3:3:2 or 2:3:2:3, it does 2:2:2:4. BAD. So no, just changing the frame rate doesn't work. That only works well with Avid Media Composer 4.0.
    So, why shoot in 24p at all?
    To get the film look. You can shoot 24p and have the frame rate still be 29.97...as I said. People who shoot 23.98 either master to 23.98 (HDCAM SR, HDCAM, D5 formats support this)...or output to DVD directly, and that supports this, or print to film. Or upload to the web only...that supports 23.98. OR, because 23.98 takes up a lot less space than 29.97. And if you have a decent HD capture card, it will add the proper pulldown when you output. So you can shoot and edit 23.98, but deliver 29.97. SD tape, and a lot of broadcasters and corporate delivery requirements are still 29.97.
    Why have the option on the camera?
    Because people want the film look, and don't like the VIDEO look. Mainly people shooting short or feature films...and TV shows and some documentaries. Before 24P people bought PAL versions of cameras that shot 25fps, then adjusted the speed when they were done to 24fps.
    I had assumed that was part of getting a more Cinematic look to the footage.
    EXACTLY.
    But if it just ends up as 29.97 why do it at all?
    Because some of us don't like the smooth video "soap opera" look of 29.97. And as I stated, you can shoot 24p at 29.97 and edit 29.97 just fine.
    I shot in every mode on that camera and did comparison. It won't do 1080p/24p, though, just 1080i/24p.
    1080i 24p is the way to get 24p in a 29.97 frame rate. it is just called 1080p24 by some people.
    Shane

  • Workflow Question: 24p (Varicam) Masters, 29.97 down converts for offline

    I know in part this question has been raised here before, and I know the Cinema Tools method for getting back to 24p... but I would like to discuss briefly the pending workflow on a project I am about to begin with someone who has tackled this before.
    I am cutting a feature, shot on Varicam at 24p. The film has already been rough cut in FCP and I am inheriting the project to re-work the rough cut and "on-line" finish the film. The initial editor did not reverse telecine the clips before cutting, so all the clips and the timeline are in 29.97. I know I could finish the off-line using the DV footage, then reverse telecine the EDL to on-line back to the 24p HD masters, but there are a few other issues.
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    HD isn't as simple as SD...not by a long shot. With SD, we captured offline at 29.97, and then onlined at 29.97. The biggest thing to worry about was that our shoot masters were 29.97 NDF but stock footage was 29.97DF, and that tended to mess up EDLs for the online.
    But then comes HD. 720p...1080i...1080p. 23.98, 24, 29.97, 59.94. So many options...things got really complex. Now with HD you really need to know what your deliverable is...even before you shoot. Because everything is geared toward getting that final master. You CAN proceed without knowing that, but then getting the proper master will require more hoop jumping. So, at this point, you need to figure out what you want to deliver and work towards that. 1080 23.98psf HDCAM? 720p 59.94 D5? 1080i 29.97 HDCAM? You have to figure this out.
    Editing 24p footage from the Varicam (which translates to 23.98) at 29.97 DV was a poor choice. DVCPRO HD 720p24 isn't even twice the file size of DV. DV is 3.6MB/s, and DVCPRO HD 720p24 is 5.4MB/s...so editing native would have been the wise choice. But that is moot. Moving on.
    When I edited a 16mm film...shot on 16mm, telecined to HDCAM at 23.98...I captured DV downconverts that ran at 29.97. I asked the post facility doing the online if I should do it at 29.97, or should I reverse telecine to 23.98...they said stick with 29.97, so I did. Then we changed post facilities and they said I really should have been editing at 23.98...because I have now made the online rather tricky. But this is what they had me do. Export an EDL of the 29.97 timeline. Use Cinema Tools to convert that from a 30fps EDL to a 24fps EDL. Then give them this and the final project. They were able to rebuild the cut, with some issues where I had speed changes, but they did it.
    So what you need to do now, is find the place that will be doing the online, and get someone there to get this thing where it needs to be. It isn't as simple as recapturing at 29.97 or 59.94. The footage was shot at 59.94, but with flags set to make it 23.98 when captured. If you had a Kona or Decklink capture card, you could capture it at 59.94, but that format won't match up with the 29.97 EDL...different time base. And you cannot capture 59.94 as 29.97...not unless the footag was flagged in the camera as 720p30.
    This is a very complex situation and I have barely scratched the surface. THis is why you need help from an HD expert, preferrably someone from the post facility where you will be doing the online.
    Shane

  • 24P or not to P, that is the question...

    I was hoping someone could clarify the significant importance of buying a 24P camera in which the footage is going to end up on a NTSC SD DVD. I filmed footage for a film shot with a Canon HV20 in the 24P mode. The footage looks fantastic after you put it through Compressor and get 24fps.
    To me this is all irrelevant however, I'll explain. After you shoot on the HV20 it records as 29.97fps. It is not 24fps until you pulldown the remaining frames in Compressor.
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    If someone has a different view or I am missing something here could you clarify please? Please keep the explanation simple as I am not a super techie when it comes to these discussions!!
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    Rory
    Message was edited by: Rory Mells

    No...that is NOT the only advantage. Outputting to DVD is also a serious advantage, as, again, 24fps gets you more storage and better data rates. DVDs you buy with Hollywood movies are all 24fps.
    Then there is the storage used to edit the footage on. 1 hour of Prores at 29.97 is about 76GB, and 1 hour of ProRes at 23.98 is 61 GB. Big savings.
    Also, there are many formats of broadcast HD delivery that require 23.98 masters. I am required to deliver HDCAM masters at 23.98...sometimes HDCAM SR masters. So it is not only for film...
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  • 24p - not 23.98

    I shot a feature film on the SONY HDW-F900 HDCAM. The movie was shot at 24p, not 23.98. Since all the footage is 24p I am having a hard time figuring out how to input this to begin editing without any duplicate frames.
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    G5 dual 2.0 1 GB RAM   Mac OS X (10.3.2)  

    Sony uses some behind the scene scheme to get 24p HD
    out of the camera. Unlike the DVX100a that does true
    native 24p DV.
    But 24p IS in the real world actually 23.98, just not
    in the Sony world. Just like 30i is actually 29.97
    in the real world.
    again, this is not right. the sony cinealta line of cameras, along with the panasonic varicam, dalsa, and thomson ldk6000 and viper are capable of shooting a variety of framerates, including both 23.98 fps and 24 fps which are different.
    the dvx100 does not shoot 24p. it shoots an in-camera telecined 23.98fps which is recorded to tape at ntsc 29.97 fps. if it did shoot a 24p framerate, i seriously doubt it would be as cheap as it is.

  • FCP 7 + HDCAM 29.97 = many timecode breaks

    Hi all,
    I've edited tapeless material for years, but my current HDCAM tape project leaves me scratching my head.
    When I capture 24p material, it works great! It's native 24p and also +Non-Drop Frame.+
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    Andrew

    Same here. I have 60+ hours to digitize and it's a nightmare.
    I've been chatting about it on Creative COW for a few days. I'm searching elsewhere as well.
    My post on the COW
    http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1120907

  • 24p Advanced- Highest Quality Output

    Hi,
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    Rule: You cannot do better than capture it natively. Whatever format it is.
    You'll want to remove that pulldown during capture if you are really printing it to film.
    If you want to work in better than what you shot for graphics reasons etc... put it in a pro res sequence setting. you'll upconvert all to 4:2:2.
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