24p in FCE

Sorry to post two topics but I had this question that wasn't answered by searching. I have FCE4 and I've read in previous posts that it can handle some 24p and also that it could not.. I'll be shooting with my new camera (when I get it) which is a panasonic dvx100b. If I shoot in 24p (regular not advanced) and DV, not HDV; will I be able to edit in FCE in normal DV 29.97 mode? Will I have trouble importing / Exporting in 24p? Is it true 24p or does it mess up the pulldown? Thanks. Let me know if more info is needed.

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Work around for capturing 24p in FCE

I am working on a clients system its a new Mac Power Book Pro running FCE 4.
Shot some HD footage at 24p. I have discovered that FCE does not natively capture 24p. Anyone suggest a good work around? trying to capture at 29.97 the footage stuters pixilates and creates copius amounts of un usable files.

Try using MPEG Streamclip or JES Deinterlacer to convert your frame rate and progressive to interlaced.
Just be aware that changing the frame rate is not a great thing to do, as you are likely to lose some visual quality, especially since you are in an NTSC country and will have to go to 29.97 or 60i. (If you were in a PAL country you might get away pretty good converting to 25 fps, which means only 1 additional blended frame in each 24. NTSC won't be as clean.)
You also need to find out exactly how the original video was shot. There are quite a few camcorders that shoot 24p over 30i or 60i, so you may actually have 60i material. It would help a lot to know exactly what make/model camera was used for the source footage.

24P in FCE 4?

Is there 24p editing in FCE4?
I'm guessing 'no' but I thought I'd ask. I couldn't find a single reference to 24p editing anywhere on the Apple website.
To be more specific, I'm interested in editing my Canon camera 24FPS footage. The Canon 24FPS convention I am told is similar, but not identical to real 24p footage.
Thanks in advance.

I don't know the answer to that. You might try the FCP forum to find out how this camera shoots 24p in 1080. I assuming you're using 1080. Find out whether you can edit it in a 1080i sequence. If you can't, you can't edit in FCE.

Using 24p

I hope I’m not biting off more than I can chew, (I’m new to this), but recently picked up FCE and while there are many who say you can’t edit 24p with FCE, Tom Wolsky says you can work in 30p and 24p but have to “make each sequence you work on render material without fields”. I’m using a DVX100b and would like to use 24p normal 3:2 pull down. A couple of questions, though:
If I use the 24p (or 30p) setting in my camera do I still use Easy Setup (DV-NTSC) or do I use another setting to capture direct from camera?
Apple tells me you can’t use in camera 24p settings. And, if so, I’m wondering does this also work if I want to use 24p in 16:9?
I tried using Tom’s instructions by right clicking on FIELD DOMINANCE then selecting NONE, but unable to get any response (doesn’t highlight) when I try to click on the Field Dominance. Is this because the short sequence I’m working with was shot 60p and not matched?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Much thanks,
huddie

> that they are not true 30p but really 60i rendered to 30p
Well, I certainly can't speak for all of these cameras, but I have played around with some of this "30p over 60i" footage -- but most of this was from HDV cameras, not AVCHD. Avoid if you can. Basically, the luma is progressive and the chroma is interlaced.
I have a function (it's actually part of the dv2film and hd2sd functions) that will deinterlace only the chroma, so can recover greatly true progressive output... but this is an unmitigated a pain in the *** to deal with all the time, and you certainly lose at least a little chroma resolution. Avoid :)

Combining 16:9, 24p and standard NTSC in FCE

Please forgive the newbie ignorance, but I seem to have gotten myself into a severe predicament with no practical way out. Here's the situation:
In a rush of naive enthusiasm, a desire to NOT indulge my usual tendency toward perfectionistic procrastination paralysis, encouragement by others—including experienced advisors, albeit one with Windows/Avid-only experience and the other a successful, working director/screenplay writer with a minimal understanding of technical issues—and finally, getting snowed by glowing sales brochures with hidden fine print that glossed over critical compatibility issues, I borrowed a s-load of money and launched my documentary by jumping out of a plane with the following parachute:
1) Essential outdoor footage (rushed to take advantage of good summer weather) shot at 24p in true 16:9 on a borrowed Canon XL2.
2) Equally essential indoor footage (and pretty much all remaining future footage) shot in standard NTSC (29.97i? 4:3) on my Canon GL2.
3) An aging dual 500 G4 that's been expensively brought up to minimal Final Cut Express standards through a series of hundred bucks here, several hundred bucks there steps. (I probably could've bought a new Mac for what I've spent on techno-duct tape for the old!)
4) A desperate hope that I might find some way to get 1-3 to work together before I hit a rapidly enlarging terra firma!
Lest you think I'm totally nuts, let me say in my defense that I have been experimenting with post-production procedures along the way—first with iMovie until it became obvious it wouldn't do the effects I wanted and now with FCE, which will handle the minimal fancy-schmancy stuff my doc needs. But now based on my fitfully improving understanding of the technical constraints, I believe I've been misled by "false" iMovie and FCE WYSIWYG images that implied I could meld my XL2 and GL2 footage without problem.
To be more specific, I was able to successfully capture the XL2 footage in iMovie through my GL2, or at least I thought I was. I assumed the data, being digital and all, would capture correctly regardless of camera. When I could see it squished horizontally in 4:3 on my monitor, I assumed it had transferred correctly and could then be manipulated however I wanted. After I got FCE, I seemed to be able to capture the two kinds of footage and even put them together (of course, with corresponding letter- and pillar-boxing), but am now thinking I've got a mess underneath what I see on screen.
All of which is to ask, Is there any practical way to solve my problem? My piggy bank is down to its last few pennies, and short of winning the lottery, my immediate possibility of getting more cash is nil. My quixotic goal is to turn this mess into a real (24p, 16:9) movie. (If I can get them combined, I plan to use the discrepancy in quality between the two kinds of footage as an "intentional" effect).
Three other questions: After reading another discussion thread, I got JES Deinterlacer to see if it could successfully convert my NTSC to widescreen 24p. The small clip I used was glacially slow to convert, which is frustrating but could be an acceptable workaround except that it appears the result is severely degraded (which makes sense since the file size is 10% of the original). My original thought was to crop the top and bottom of the 4:3 to fit it in with the 16:9 (instead of stretch it) and have the resulting increasing contrast in resolution be part of the inside/outside "effect." Can JES, or something else, solve my conversion problem? If so, will FCE be able to handle the result?
Second thing is one of my original XL2 tapes was lost so I took my iMovie version and put it back on tape through my GL2. Has this been degraded from the original? What is happening to the 24p, 16:9 data as it goes back and forth from camera to hard drive through iMovie and FCE.
Third is I found several threads that warn specifically against capturing from a Canon camera to a firewire hard drive. I seem to have had no problem so far, but is there something corrupt underneath that I can't see?
Hoping this long post is not too annoying (maybe my mistakes can help others avoid similar ones?) and that there's a miracle out there that'll keep me from crashing and burning in a fireball
Many thanks, Chris
G4 Dual 500 Mac OS X (10.4.8)

"There is not quality degradation for digital content upon printing to tape or copy, even from a iMovie version. DV is a already compressed digital material, edited in the compressed format, so you can go far beyond 20 generations of copy without significant degradation.
"It's not exactly the same thing with HDV (because there is a conversion by Apple Intermediate Codec at each capture/print process)."
Thanks, Michel. I guess I'm still confused about the gist of the capture process, which seems to be what led me into this mess in the first place. I understand that the raw data is digital and that it won't degrade if it's copied, which is what I thought capturing was in essence. But if DV capture is standardized, what—if it's not some kind of codec-translation filter—makes the resulting media files different depending upon which application (and camera?) is used. (I know cameras can record differently—thus my XL2/GL2 discrepancy—but do they also behave differently in the capture process?)
The other explanation I can think of for the differences in capturing between iMovie, FCE, and FCP is that Apple has simply restricted the aspect ratios and frame rates each app handles as part of the justification for differing prices. I had thought they could each accept the same raw footage but what they did with it afterwards was increasingly sophisticated and therefore costly.
Live and spend lots of money to learn!

Adding 24p look in FCE HD 3.5

How can I create the 24p film look in FCE HD 3.5? Orig. footage is 60i.
G4 DP MDD FW800 Mac OS X (10.3.8)

Get Graeme Nattress' Fim Look plugin. http://www.nattress.com

Ingesting AVCHD Footage into FCE (shot 720/24p)

Hi, I've been reading up a lot on various problems with ingesting AVCHD footage into FC Express. I'm using a Panasonic HM150 camera. I've transfered the footage from a SD Card reader to my Iomega 500GB external drive. We shot our footage at 720/24p. I tried to use easy setup for this, but there is no format for this in FCE 4.0.1. The best that I can do seems to be AVCHD 1080i. Can anyone assist me with how I can get FCE to ingest AVCHD footage shot at 720/24p and the exact settings I need to use to ensure correct ingestion? Upon trying to log and transfer it, I keep getting the red exclamation mark. Would this be because the settings are incorrect? I'm surprised that FCE doesn't have this particular setting since many people do shoot in the 720 mode.
Many thanks,
J.D.

Although FCE isn't designed to work with 24p footage, I've heard of a lot of people recently being able to ingest it anyway into FCE, but then getting stuck when it's time to put it into a sequence.
Click the gear button in the upper right of the Log and Transfer window, and navigate to the Preferences menu. Make sure Audio is set to *Plain Stereo* and click the button to *Clear the Cache.* Now try ingesting with your Easy Setup set to AIC 720p30. If it works, you can then use the free [MPEG Streamclip|http://www.squared5.com> to convert the capture scratch files to 29.97fps and edit them in FCE.
If it doesn't work, you may be able to use [Voltaic HD|http://www.shedworx.com/voltaichd] to convert from AVCHD to the Apple Intermediate Codec at 29.97fps for editing.
Message was edited by: skalicki`

Can FCE convert PF24 (24p @ 60i) into true 24p?

I am looking at purchasing a Canon HF-S100 which can shoot in 24p @ 60i. I use FCE 4. Is it possible to have FCE4 or some other program take this footage and convert it to true 24p? If not, can it be done with FC Pro? Thanks for the help!
Brian

FCE does not support 24p media. You need FCS. You would need to completely decompressed the media into another format. Compressor can do it. At high quality it's a very slow process.

Inexperienced 24p editor w/ FCE

Hey, hopefully someone can help me with my problem:
I shot a project using the Panasonic DVX100B at 24p (not advanced 24p). My cinematographer tells me I need to import using a camera that can at least shoot 24p if not the exact model. Trouble is, I don't have access to one at this current moment in time, and I have found that I can import using a camera that shoots regular video instead of 24p.
Basically, I have no idea how I should go about capturing my footage. Sometimes my FCE's capture program doesn't work right and I have had to import using iMovie. This hasn't been an issue before since I was shooting on regular video.
So... do I really have to import using a 24p camera, or can I import using another camera and change the settings while I'm editing?
I've read numerous discussions on the "editing 24p" subject, and they have not helped me understand it better as of yet, and I can't find any useful information in the manual.
Can a young lad get some help? Thanks!

I read this thread earlier today trying to find a solution to a similar problem, and learned some information I hadn't known. If you have shot the footage in 24fps, you can import it at 24fps, and then when you export to DVD, you can keep it at 24fps, and when played back on NTSC, the DVD player and TV will convert it back to 30fps. In my experience, this looks the best. I'd do a quick test with one clip, and actually burn a test DVD with 24fps to make sure it looks good.
That being said, when I was using the AG-DVX100a, importing at 30fps, exporting 30fps, and burning 30fps was a much easier workflow. It's completely native to everything, and you never have any synch issues, and it still looks like 24P.

FCE, Panasonic AG-DVX100B, and 24p

Last weekend I rented a Panasonic AG-DVX100B. I chose the F5 preset for 24p (not advanced), cine-like, etc.
When I imported it into FCE 3.5 I got 30-interlaced.
I tried re-importing into a fresh, new project in FCE but FCE still shows the imported videos as 30-interlaced. I've double-checked the camera settings and it's definitely recording 24p.
Any idea what might have gone wrong?
TIA,
--Richard

FCE does not convert on the fly during capture.
You have to use an Easy Setup that fully matches your camera settings, but unfortunately FCE does not have a 24p setting for your camera.
I guess with FCP you could capture from your camera with those settings.
Piero
Message was edited by: PieroF

FCE and 24p

Hi,
I recently bought a Canon 550D to shot 24p movies. I had then to discover that FCE does not yet support this framerate. I'm a bit surprised this has not yet been added, since there are consumer camcorders, like the Panasonic HV20, that have had this feature for years. And Apple has always marketed their software to ambitious/advanced creatives.
FCE has not been upgraded for years, and it seems to me that there are no annoucements for a new version. Before (sadly - I like FCE very much) switching to something else, does anybody knows if there are rumors of a new version, or there are plugins or the like that can help with these (no longer so) new formats?
Paolo

does anybody knows if there are rumors of a new version
Such speculation violates the forum's terms of use.

HDV 24P importing into Final Cut Express?

I am trying to import a QuickTime clip Codecs: HDV720p24 - from Final Cut Pro into FC Express but unable to. The video clip come in with only sound no pic. Does FC express import HDV 24p??? and if so how do I find that codec. Please help..thanks

Thank you Tom... is there a way to export the file in a readable format from FCP? It seems there is a codec for HDV720p30 but not p24... I was told when I ought FCE that it would be able to transfer files from one format to the next. Is this a lie?

Log and transfer footage from Panasonic GH1 into FCE

I have already read the few threads discussing importing AVCHD video from the Panasonic GH1 camera into FCE. I was expecting that the 1080x24 (wrapped in 60i) would import OK but the 720x60p would not. However, so far, I have had both formats import using the log and transfer just fine. These have been only short clips roughly a minute or less in length but no sign of FCE crashing when importing the 60p footage.
So, is this considered normal or has something in the most recent OSX updates fixed this FCE capability?

The program is usually able to ingest 24p and 60p footage fine, but upon exporting it will be conformed to the frame rate of your sequence. Since FCE doesn't support custom sequences all exported movies are either in 29.97fps or 25fps. Problems also sometimes arise where the program interprets your footage as 29.97fps instead of what it actually is, causing the audio to drift a bit as well.
Better to stick to what the program supports: 50i/25p and 60i/30p. If you need the functionality of 24p or 60p you should upgrade to Final Cut Pro.

What is the best way to work with AVCHD 720 24p footage in FCE4.1?

Hi I have a Panasonic HMC-150 and I've been shooting 720 24p footage at 21 mbps transfer rate.
I was wondering what is the best way to work with this material in FCE 4.1? I see that in the easy set up menu they only have the option of 1440X1080i at 50 or 60 fps or 1920X1080i at 50 or 60 fps.
Also in the rates drop down menu there is only 50 or 29.97.
So I was wondering which is the best choice for 720 24p footage and will it look alright in any of them? Also is it possible to customize these settings?
And finally can you work with faster transfer rates (21mbps) in FCE?

Yikes, this is going to be tricky since FCE does not support native 24p editing.
The work around for some of us is that AVCHD material that is 24p is often recorded to disc at 60i using telecine, in which case it can be editing at 29.97 frames per second, and then detelecined afterward for final export at 23.98 fps. The problem is that I think your camera actually records real 24p - not 24p packed into 60i. When you import the material from the camera what does QuickTime report the framerate as?

AVCHD--1920x1080 24p native--final cut express

New to FCE and video. I shot a bunch of video on a Canon HFS 21 in 1920 x 1080 24p native. I am trying to import it into FCE, but it looks like FCE wants me to degrade my video to import it and edit. Same goes for some video I shot with my Canon Mark IV, which was also 24 p. Is there anyway to work with FCE and 24p native or do I need to upgrade to FCS? Thanks in advance.

I just got a Panasonic GH2 which can shoot in 1080p24 and I edit with FCE. What I have figured out is that if you just use a 29.97fps timeline, it plays the 24fps video fine. Then when you export the project at the end, just export back to 24fps and it should line back up with the original 24fps of the video you shot and not skip or duplicate any frames.
The one thing that might be a problem is that when you tell FCE to export at 24fps, it actually does what I think is a pull-down and exports at 23.98 fps. This may mean that once in a great while there is a dropped frame. If you do the same thing but use a 25fps timeline in FCE the actual exported rate is 24.04 I think. This is worse as there will be duplicate frames twice as often.
If you are concerned about the dropped frames with using the 29.97fps timeline in FCE, export to a lossless (or near lossless) format at 29.97fps (ie by not using "Quicktime Conversion"), then post process the result in JES De-interlacer (free), using "standards conversion" to convert the video from 29.97 to 24fps (use telecine mode, not blend). This will resample the frame rate to exactly 24fps and you should be good. Link:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html
I have noticed some weird jumpy stuff if I slow down a 24p clip in FCE where the camera was panning left and try to fight that by moving the clip right on the canvas (the faster frame rate of the FCE motion keyframe move fighting the slower frame rate of the original video moving in the opposite direction), but I assume that would also happen with 30p or 60i video in that situation if you slowed it down enough - just the 24fps video is making it more obvious at less extreme speed reductions.
Message was edited by: Arvid

24p in FCE

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