60p to 24p

Hello all,
I recently shot some footage with an HVX set at 720p24, but the gremlins in my fire-store 100, for whatever reason, told it to start recording at 720p60 halfway through my shoot. By this I mean, that the footage has 60 individual (no duplicate) frames with the time code at 59.94.
What's the best way to re-conform this to 24p to match the rest of my clips? I've read about people doing this with compressor or with something called a Natress filter, but I don't know the specifics of either route. Have any of you done this and had the resulting 24p clip play back smoothly?
Thanks.
Ben

Shane, I understand the difference in motion. And as I said, it was not my intention to capture at the frame rate that I did. With regards to the slight stutteryness, I'm comparing one of these problem clips to an actual 24pN clip from an earlier part of the shoot. I put both in the 23.97 timeline, but the one captured at 60p feels like it should still run slightly smoother or with a little bit more motion blur maybe. I think I'm simply looking for the best way to cheat that "look" back into the footage.
Your post below is right. Cinema Tools is not a good option for that as this doesn't really have much to do with 2:3 3:2 pulldown type operations and it won't let me conform the footage anyway.
Ben

Similar Messages

Converting 720/60p to 24p

Im using a Panasonic HMC150 and shot some footage in 720/60p so I can try out the slow motion effect. How do I convert the clips shot in 720/60p to 24p using Final Cut Pro? I don't know how to set the timeline up to be 24p. Is it just a matter of getting the footage in the timeline and changing the speed?

YOu use Cinema Tools. Tutorial found here:
http://library.creativecow.net/rossshane/slow-motioncinema-tools/1
Shane

From 60p to 24p...

Hi guys, with new FCX how do you now conform 60p into 24p? Thanks a bunch !

@RedHavoc
Yes. I downloaded Final Cut Pro X this morning and created a project with a frame rate of 24p. I imported footage shot on my Canon 7D @60fps. I dropped a clip in the timeline, selected it, went to Modify>Retime>Conform Speed and it retimed the footage to 40% of it's original speed.

Converting 30p/60p to 24p

hello
i am trying to convert my 60p footage from my Canon 7D to 24p to get that "film look". If i simply drag a 60p clip into a 24p timeline, will it automatically convert it to 24p?
This seems to make sense, but Philip Bloom on his web site has this long process of conforming it to 24p in Cinema Tools, then speeding that back up in Compressor to match the original timing. Does it have to be done this way or can i just drag it in?
thanks
heres the link for philip blooms workflow:
http://philipbloom.co.uk/tutorials/canon-5dmkii-tutorials/how-to-convert-canon-5 dmk2-footage-from-30p-to-24p/

be aware, the "film look" has much less to do with the frame rate and more to do with cinematographic elements like depth of field, lighting, and grain. Even if you convert 30 to 24, you still had a shutter speed of 1/60th of a second, so the individual frames have less motion involved than if you had a shutter speed of 1/48th of a second.

60p to 24p Pulldown Conversion - Best Settings?

Our studio recently purchased a new camera for some run-and-gun shooting. Unfortunately, it does not support 24p natively, only 60p & 60i. It does, however, support shutter speeds from 1/2 all the way to 1/4000. What advice can you give regarding pulldown conversion into a 24p project, both for camera settings and FCPX?
Please note that I'm looking for 1:1 speed, NOT slow-mo.

Shane, I understand the difference in motion. And as I said, it was not my intention to capture at the frame rate that I did. With regards to the slight stutteryness, I'm comparing one of these problem clips to an actual 24pN clip from an earlier part of the shoot. I put both in the 23.97 timeline, but the one captured at 60p feels like it should still run slightly smoother or with a little bit more motion blur maybe. I think I'm simply looking for the best way to cheat that "look" back into the footage.
Your post below is right. Cinema Tools is not a good option for that as this doesn't really have much to do with 2:3 3:2 pulldown type operations and it won't let me conform the footage anyway.
Ben

Conform Speed- 60p to 24p

Hi guys, one feature that nobody seems to be talking about is the "conform speed" from the speed-popup-thingy, I love I can conform to 24p for true slow mo when I shoot 60p (avoiding to go to Cinema tools, not to mention the native ingest of my DSL footage while transcoding in the bg)
But I'm not sure if one should use the "rate conform" of this conformed clip (in the inspector) at the default 'floor' or at 'nearest neighbor'.
What would act like a simple frame by frame conforming without introducing any artifacts? In my tests it seems that "nearest neighbor" is more appropriate but I could be wrong...
Any ideas?

Shane, I understand the difference in motion. And as I said, it was not my intention to capture at the frame rate that I did. With regards to the slight stutteryness, I'm comparing one of these problem clips to an actual 24pN clip from an earlier part of the shoot. I put both in the 23.97 timeline, but the one captured at 60p feels like it should still run slightly smoother or with a little bit more motion blur maybe. I think I'm simply looking for the best way to cheat that "look" back into the footage.
Your post below is right. Cinema Tools is not a good option for that as this doesn't really have much to do with 2:3 3:2 pulldown type operations and it won't let me conform the footage anyway.
Ben

How to convert 60p to 24p?

We are shooting with the HDX-900. Mostly 720p. Our deck is the
Panasonic AJ-1400. I'm looking at wanting to convert footage shot at
60p to 50% slomo.
Anyone have any ideas?

In the Browser, does it say 59.94 for the frame rate? If so, then it is some hiccup. I hit this every now and then. In this case I would then use Cinema Tools to OPEN the clip and then CONFORM it to 23.98fps. COPY IT FIRST...it modifies the clip destructively...meaning it will be slow motion now forever...no going back.
Shane

Black frames at the end of an exported file when converting from 60p to 24p

I have another export issue that I can't figure out.
I import footage I shot at 23.98fps (on a JVC HD100) using a Kona LH card at 59.94fps DVCPro HD, in which it has a 2:3 cadence. I need to make files that are actually 23.98p DVCProHD. Unfortunately, when I export in Final Cut from the 59.94 original, the new 23.98 file has all of the image, exported correctly, followed by a number of black frames such that the total number of frames in the exported file equals the number of frames in the original file. That is:
If the original 59.94 file was 3s long, that is 60 * 3 = 180 frames. The exported 23.98 file also has 180 frames, but only 3s of image = 3 * 24 = 72 frames, followed by 180 - 72 = 108 frames = 4s 12frames of black.
How can I prevent this from happening, and end up with an exported file that is (e.g.) just the 3s of image, and not 7.5s of which 4.5s are black?
It's true that I can manually clip this black off, but I need to do many clips as a batch, and would really not have to change one clip at a time. It is also true that I can do a batch in compressor, and that this process does not suffer this problem -- that is, there is no extra black -- however, there is another problem: the original 59.94 DVCProHD files are actually 1280x720 with square pixels; the files exported from FCP via the KONA DVCProHD codec maintain this true HD proportion, but the ones exprted through compressor (which does not appear to support the KONA LH implementation of DVCProHD as an option) have the size 960x720 with anamorphic pixels, and I would rather keep the original size. Thus, I would rather export from fcp. If anyone has any insight into how I might resolve this....
Thanks,
Robert Schaller

Thanks. If I understand you correctly, it does seem to export correctly if I paste the 59.94 clip into a 23.98 sequence (you can't nest sequences that have different time bases) and export from there, and it doesn't even have to specify square pixels, etc.: the AJA codec implementation seems to take care of that. There is no longer any extra black, so, per file, that gives the right result.
That, however, is only one part of the problem, though a significant part. Next is, I really would like to do this as a batch process, as I tend to have many clips to do at one time. As soon as I try any kind of batch export, I end up with one of two problems:
1) if I try to batch export from fcp, I'm back to having extra black frames, or
2) if I try to batch export with compressor, I get 960x720 files.
If anyone has any suggestions on how to get the right files in a batch, that would be the next step. Is fcp scriptable? And, if so, can you write a script that takes a clip, pastes it into a blank 23.98 DVCPro timeline, sets the correct in and out points (i.e, in at the beginning and out 1 before the end), exports it with a specified codec and time base, with a name based on the source clip, and then repeats that as needed?
Thanks for any input --
Robert Schaller

Canon 7D 720/60p converted to 720/24p in Premiere Pro CS4

I've exhausted all my resources trying to find a simple answer but it seems like anything regarding 60p to 24p is about slow motion video which I already know how to do and understand thoroughly.
My question is, with my Canon 7D, there's no option for 720/24p (23.976), there's only 720/60p (29.97) or 50p. Getting 30p video is simple because Premiere just drops every other frame. Now 24p is a little trickier. There is an option for 1080/24p which is overkill for what I want and need to do. I also don't have the capacity in memory cards for that.
I understand that if I drop a 60p video on a 24p timeline, Premiere will just drop frames. But since 60 is not divisible by 24.. how does Premiere know which frames to drop? I believe there's also a Frame Blending option as well.. how would that work?
I'm looking for the best way to convert 60p video to 24p in Premiere. I can't imagine it being overly complicated.

quazis wrote:
Thanks for the reply but I'm not sure who told you that 1080p24 produces smaller file sizes than 720p60.
Canon 7D has a max recording limit of 4gb (per file) due to FAT32 file system restrictions. At 1080p, 4gb = 12minutes. On a 16gb card, that's only 48minutes. At 720p, 4gb = 30minutes. That's 2 hours.
Then it's Canon's encoding scheme or sensor use that makes such a huge difference. My AVCHD files from a Panasonic HMC150 are smaller at 1080p24 than at 720p60. Which makes sense since the raw pixel count per second is less with 1080p24 (49,766,400 at 1080p24 versus 55,296,00 for 720p60).
I have a tutorial on my web site about using dv2film, which is designed to convert 60i DV to 24p DV. But it also works for HD footage. Check it out and let me know what you think.
BDVS Tutorials
-Jeff

***Final Cut Pro and 24p/60p Footage

Hi.
I'm working on a short project where most of the footage is 720/24p. We have some B-roll that's 720/60p. We definitely want to use this footage. I'm familiar with conforming it to 24p in Cinema Tools and having nice slow motion, but I don't want that. I just want to mix the footage in at regular speed as best as possible. Right now, I just dropped it into the timeline as is, rendered, and I guess it looks okay. I'm assuming FCP is just taking out frames.
Is this okay, or is there a better method?
Thank you!

Open up Compressor drop in the material and create a preset to that uses Frame Controls to conform the 60p to 24p. You'll want the output to be in your editing codec (ProRes?). You do not need to resized the image.
In a simplistic way, what this will do is throw out 4 of 5 frames (take it down to 12p) then build the intermediate frame between each remaining frame to get back to 24p. Given the amount of info being tossed into the rubish bin, you'll want the conversion to happen thoughtfully.
Set your frame controls to Better (motion compensated). If Better doesn't yield the results you want, you may want to go to BEST. You should understand that going to BEST will increase rendering times dramatically.
Otherwise, Motion and AfterEffects can do retiming. I find AE does it as well or better than Motion and does it faster.
Good luck.
x

24p 25p 30p 50p : what's recommended for HD in a PAL environement

While i'm choosing a new digicam that can shoot movies (1920x1080), I wondering what's the frame rate to prefer for editing with FCS to produce Bluray
in a "PAL world".
I'm very interested in a Nikon P510 with its huge zoom but it record at 30p.
Instead of the NiKon a friend suggested the Sony HX200 that shots 50p and 24p...
In other world i would like to have an advice if:
24p it's ok to edit in FCP
30p it's ok to edit in FCP and it's ok (i doubt) in the PAL environement
I'm quite experienced in PAL SD (miniDV --> DVD ) workflow but very confused on the HD one...
Thanks

In a PAL environment you can use either 25p or 50i .... both are the same framerate but one is progressive (p) and one is interlaced. Both can be edited in FCP
24p is often used to give footage the "film look". It is also supported in the Blu-Ray standards and in FCP.
50p/60p are non-standard framerates that are not always supported by NLEs. More often than not they are used to achieve smooth slow motion in post (e.g. 60p to 24p conforming). To my knowledge FCP can handle 50/60p only with the help of third-party capture card. 50/69p is also not supported on Blu-Ray devices.

720p60 3:2 Pulldown to 720p24 in Final Cut?

We shot a feature film with a Panasonic Varicam at 24p and captured directly to a computer via HD-SDI through a BlackMagic Design Decklink HD Extreme using Apple's ProRes codec (looks fantastic by the way... for those interested there is definitely a visual difference between DVCProHD and ProRes when capturing from an uncompressed source). The transport mechanism was 720p60 because that's what the Varicam outputs, and Final Cut's capture doesn't pay any attention to the HD-SDI meta-data (if any exists) so the pulldown frames were not removed in the capture process.
So, now I have all of this 60p footage that has superfluous frames added in the 3:2 pulldown process of the camera. When we edit these clips within Final Cut in a 24fps timeline, about a fifth of our clips play back stuttered as they are dropping, or more accurately doubling, every other frame and ignoring those in-between. I've figured out the reason for this is because Final Cut has no clue what frame of the 3:2 sequence each clip begins with and thus thinks each clip begins on an A1 frame. In 4 out of 5 frame sequences, this is fine, as shown here:
Normal telecine sequence:
AAA BB CCC DD EEE FF…
Edit starts on first frame:
AAABBCCCDDEEEFF
ABCDEF
Edit starts on second frame:
AABBCCCDDEEEFF
ABCDEF
Edit starts on third frame:
ABBCCCDDEEEFF
ACCEE
Edit starts on fourth frame:
BBCCCDDEEEFFG
BCDEFG
Edit starts on fifth frame:
BCCCDDEEEFFGGG
BCDEFG
As such, we see a stuttering issue (which appears as 12fps... every other frame is ignored of the original footage) on all clips that begin with the 3rd A-frame because Final Cut reverses this pulldown automatically but assumes that the beginning of the clip is at the beginning of the sequence every time, when it's not. I had hoped that I could somehow change the starting pulldown frame within Final Cut but see no way to do this. Cinema Tools doesn't have any good tools for working with 60p original content, so I'm stuck here.
I downloaded and installed the Nattress Standards Conversion filters and have experimented with them but have not been successful at eradicating this problem entirely. It seems its conversion from 60p to 24p assumes 60 unique frames, not a 3:2 pulldown clip. This coupled with the fact that Final Cut has some flakiness with its handling of the pulldown in general leaves me seeking the best strategy for handling this from wise council, which I would absolutely this forum to be.
Thanks for any help in advance!

Alex, thanks for your help. I didn't notice one of the FCP settings for my camera had been changed. Funny how working at 2:45 a.m. can sneak up on your brain.
Thanks again & take care!

NTSC vs PAL upcoming shoot- need help.

hi, i have a huge project coming up. some video shot in US other in Europe.
thinking of using AF-100 as well as a DSLR, as second camera cutaways.
want to use 1080 30p setting, ideally. question is, how do i handle shooting in europe? If i have a US crew and bring a NTSC camera, how shall it be shot given the 50hz vs 60hz issue? If i hire a crew in Europe using AF-100, it will be PAL but then how do I edit that footage along with stuff shot in US? much thanks.

Hello Sue,
personally I'd convert everything to PAL as I've always felt that I get slightly better results from NTSC to PAL conversions than vice versa ... but it also depends on your final output.
Since you're saying that you'll shoot with AF-100s and DSLRs, why not shoot everything in 24p and forget about standards conversions? And from what I hear you can even shoot overcranked 50/60p in 24p mode with the AF-100.
hope this helps
mish

Best frame rates for 4 different cameras in multicam

Well, I've been flopping around in different threads on this forum, but I think the question is beginning to finally take shape for me. Basically it's all about deciding on frame rates for four different cameras I will be using to shoot a 6-day intensive course I will be teaching. The video will be primarily for computer viewing (YouTube, Quicktime movies). Here are the cameras:
2 new Canon cameras capable of frame rates of 60i, 30 frames per second progressive "recorded as 60i", and 24 frames per second progressive also "recorded as 60i" (there is a known issue with importing the 30 frames per second into fcpx, as fcpx does not recognize this as progressive, but ClipWrap can get around this).
1 Sony capable of 60i, 60P, and 24P
1 Sanyo capable of 60i and 30P
Possible settings:
Just do all at 60i, but people say this is not so good for computer viewing
Canon at 30 fps (using ClipWrap to see it gets recognized as progressive), and the Sony and Sanyo at 60i. Will this cause syncing or other problems, mixing frame rates like this? How bad a hit in quality is 60i on computer screens?
Canon and Sanyo at 30 fps, Sony at 60i
Same as #3, but use JES Deinterlacer to get Sony 60i to 30 fps.(I tried this out, by the way, and the resulting frame rate, after deinterlacing, showed up in the inspector window at 30, not 29.97. Is that a problem?
Anyway, I aplogogize for wearing out my welcome on this forum, and I thank everyone for creating such a wonderful bank of information.

Not sure what you're trying to achieve here - for the best overall quality, if possible, choose a frame rate that all the cameras can achieve. That way you won't lose quality in the conversion.
If you're not satisfied with that, you need to do some tests to see which gives you the effect you like best. Nobody here can help you really - it's up to you.
Andy

Export HD to NTSC Widescreen -- not truly 16:9

If you export HD footage, 1080x1920 for example, to NTSC Widescreen, you end up with 720x480 with rectangular pixels that have a 1.2121 pixel aspect ratio. That means, the display is effectively 873x480 pixels, which is a a screen aspect ratio of about 16.4:9 instead of 16:9. What you end up with is the original video image squashed between thin, vertical black bars on the right and left sides (not the thick black bars you get when you display a 4:3 video in a 16:9 display).
If you open the video in an NTSC Widescreen Sequence, you'll see those black bars. The video image does not fill the screen.
This is easily fixed: change the Scale Width value to 102.3 (uncheck Uniform Scale). That puts the image portion of the clip into the proper aspect ratio (and shoves the black bars off the left and right sides of the screen). But I'd rather change the scale of all the clips in a project.
Since NTSC has to be 720x480 pixels, if you want to display something at a 16:9 ratio, the pixel aspect ratio should be 1.185 instead of 1.2121.
Perhaps an Adobe engineer can explain why exporting HD to NTSC Widescreen creates a video with black vertical bars and how a 720x480 (with rectangular pixels with a 1.2121 aspect ratio) clip can be considered as having a 16:9 aspect ratio.
Thanks,
Jeff Sengstack

you have to do your frame aspect ratio calculations based on the image area (clean aperture) not the production aperture.
page 4...this link
http://www.panavision.com/publish/2007/12/10/GenesisFAQs20071207.pdf
My take on this is that CCD's that are full size for 35mm film ( beginning of aspect ratios for a lot of stuff ) there is less fudging re: transforming a smaller chip size to the correct exact image size, that the image size derrived from the real camera recording may not be exactly the "production" aspect ratio sizes...or something like that... It is confusing to me also, as I have no video cameras, digital or otherwise, and don't shoot anything but still film.
I think ( not sure but think I read ) that the red camera actually has a CCD "larger" than the genesis, so it actually is capable of recording higher resolutions than typical 4.4.4 production dimensions....but how that works into "clean" image area and aspect ratio is confusing to me also...
To further confuse me, this article has info on exact number of lines broadcast for pal and ntsc...
note THIS in the article ===------------------------------------------------------
NTSC Video
525 scan lines per frame, 30      frames per second (or be exact, 29.97 fps, 33.37 msec/frame)
Interlaced, each frame is      divided into 2 fields, 262.5 lines/field
20 lines reserved for control      information at the beginning of each fieldSo a maximum of 485       lines of visible data
Basics of Video
Analog video is represented      as a continuous (time varying) signal.
Digital video is represented      as a sequence of digital images.
    Types of Color Video Signals
Component video --      each primary is sent as a separate video signal.
The primaries can       either be RGB or a luminance-chrominance transformation of them (e.g.,       YIQ, YUV).
Best color       reproduction
Requires more       bandwidth and good synchronization of the three components
Composite video --      color (chrominance) and luminance signals are mixed into a single carrier      wave. Some interference between the two signals is inevitable.
S-Video (Separated      video, e.g., in S-VHS) -- a compromise between component analog video and      the composite video. It uses two lines, one for luminance and another for      composite chrominance signal.
    Analog Video
The following figures are from A.M. Tekalp, "Digital video processing", Prentice Hall PTR, 1995, NTSC.
NTSC Video
525 scan lines per frame, 30      frames per second (or be exact, 29.97 fps, 33.37 msec/frame)
Interlaced, each frame is      divided into 2 fields, 262.5 lines/field
20 lines reserved for control      information at the beginning of each field
So a maximum of 485       lines of visible data
Laserdisc and S-VHS       have actual resolution of ~420 lines
Ordinary TV -- ~320       lines
Each line takes 63.5      microseconds to scan. Horizontal retrace takes 10 microseconds (with 5      microseconds horizontal synch pulse embedded), so the active line time is      53.5 microseconds.
Digital Video Rasters
Color representation:
NTSC uses YIQ color       model.
composite = Y + I cos(Fsc       t) + Q sin(Fsc t), where Fsc is the frequency of color subcarrier
PAL Video
625 scan lines per frame, 25      frames per second (40 msec/frame)
Interlaced, each frame is      divided into 2 fields, 312.5 lines/field
Uses YUV color model
    Digital Video
Advantages:
Direct random access       --> good for nonlinear video editing
No problem for       repeated recording
No need for blanking       and sync pulse
Almost all digital video uses      component video
Chroma Subsampling
How to decimate for      chrominance?
4:4:4 --> No chroma      subsampling, each pixel has Y, Cr and Cb values.
4:2:2 --> Horizontally subsample Cr, Cb signals by a factor of 2.
4:1:1 --> Horizontally subsampled by a factor of 4.
4:2:0 --> Subsampled in both the horizontal and vertical dimensions by a factor of 2. Theoretically, the chroma pixel is positioned between the rows and columns as shown in the figure.
4:1:1 and 4:2:0 are mostly      used in JPEG and MPEG (see Chapter 4).
CCIR Standards for Digital Video
(CCIR -- Consultative Committee for International Radio)
                       CCIR 601       CCIR 601         CIF         QCIF
                        525/60         625/50
                         NTSC         PAL/SECAM
Luminance resolution   720 x 485      720 x 576     352 x 288    176 x 144
Chrominance resolut.   360 x 485      360 x 576     176 x 144     88 x 72
Color Subsampling        4:2:2          4:2:2         4:2:0        4:2:0
Fields/sec                60             50            30           30
Interlacing               Yes            Yes           No           No
CCIR 601 uses interlaced      scan, so each field only has half as much vertical resolution (e.g., 243      lines in NTSC). The CCIR 601 (NTSC) data rate is ~165 Mbps.
CIF (Common Intermediate      Format) -- an acceptable temporary standard
Approximately the VHS       quality
Uses progressive       (non-interlaced) scan
Uses NTSC frame rate,       and half the active lines of PAL signals --> To play on existing TVs,       PAL systems need to do frame rate conversion, and NTSC systems need to do       line-number conversion.
QCIF -- Quarter-CIF
ATSC Digital Television Standard
(ATSC -- Advanced Television Systems Committee) The ATSC Digital Television Standard was recommended to be adopted as the Advanced TV broadcasting standard by the FCC Advisory Committee on Advanced Television Service on November 28, 1995. It covers the standard for HDTV (High Definition TV).
Video Format
The video scanning formats supported by the ATSC Digital Television Standard are shown in the following table.
Vertical Lines
Horizontal   Pixels
Aspect Ratio
Picture Rate
1080
1920
16:9
60I 30P 24P
720
1280
16:9
60P 30P 24P
480
704
16:9 &   4:3
60I 60P 30P   24P
480
640
4:3
60I 60P 30P   24P
The aspect ratio for HDTV is      16:9 as opposed to 4:3 in NTSC, PAL, and SECAM. (A 33% increase in      horizontal dimension.)
In the picture rate column,      the "I" means interlaced scan, and the "P" means      progressive (non-interlaced) scan.
Both NTSC rates and integer      rates are supported (i.e., 60.00, 59.94, 30.00, 29.97, 24.00, and 23.98).
At 1920 x 1080, 60I (which      CBS and NBC have selected), there will be 1920 x 1080 x 30 = 62.2 millions      pixels per second. Considering 4:2:2 chroma subsampling, each pixel needs      16 bits to represent, the bit rate is 62.2 x 16 = 995 Mb/sec.
Homepage of the Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC)

60p to 24p

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for