Alternate Color Space

We are running Creative Suite 6 on our macs here. When you create a new spot color from the library the alternate color space is in LAB. We work at a printing company and this doesn't do us very much good. Is it possible to change this to be CMYK?
Thanks for your help!

This forum doesn't get all that much traffic. If you have applications specific questions ask in those forums.
The answer may be different for the two apps.
Bob

Similar Messages

Separation color space

Hi,
When I edit existing pdf file,and change spot color of separation color space to another(from one pantone color to another ,for example) ,I can't see the difference(colors are changed only if I change it to None or All).Is application using tint transform and alternate color space by default,except in case when color is set to None or All? I read in pdf reference that only if output device can't recognize color ,tint transform is used,then how it recognize one pantone color and other not?
Regards
Marko V.

I really do not understand the question. The color space typically would not change. Are you opening the PDF in Illustrator? Are you selecting an element in Pantone A and changing it to Pantone B? The change should be obvious unless it is so subtle, you can't see the change on your monitor. But, the color space should be retained in whatever scenario you're discussing. Color space usually refers to either RGB or CMYK in Illustrator.

PDF ERROR! ICC Based color space contains/ alternate key

Can somebody help me?
When I put in Rip (Agfa Apogee X) a pdf I receive the follow error: ICC Based color space contains/ alternate key.
I don t know where is the problem? There Is a problem with pdf? or it is a problem in my Rip? how can I solve this?

That's pretty odd, because (techncnically) an ICCBased color space must contain an Alternate key, so why complain about it? It certainly seems specific to your RIP, so I would check with Agfa what it means and whether it is a check you can turn off, or if an update is available.

Separation color space - get alternate color (function of type 0)

Hello,
I'm trying to retrieve the alternate color value of a spot color which has a function of type 0. Actually I just want to retrieve the result of the function when the tint is 1.0.
How can I do that?
Thanks in advance,
Joe

Right Leonard.
The function is PDApplyFunction().
Thanks,
Joe

Spot colors Black, All have the same alternate color values

If printer’s mark [Crop, Registration, Page] is enable in the InDesign preset options, we are getting “Spot colors Black, All have the same alternate color values” error in the PITSTOP log report.

Rob, here's screenshot of Acrobats Output Preview Object Inspector. You can download my PDF here - //www.fileswap.com/dl/Q1CzzOzEqt/
I'm not sure if CM was assigned to document when created or afterwards. In Color Settings preferences is stated Fogra 39 (if it matters - document was meanwhile saved and opened...). Are there other options to assign workspace to exsisting document?
Peter, this is not the case. Placed image has embeded same color profile as is working space of document in ID. I tried the same with sRGB image placed in same ID document and compared it to PS but color shift (greenish) is present - it looks exactly the same.
Guys, I can't tell you how happy I am to have you help me with this terrible and nerve-wracking problem.

Banding in broad color space???? grrr

I'm on an old laptop, PS 5.5. I have a properly exposed iso 1800 D600 jpg
captured in adobe rgb color space.
I use camera raw to open this picture in photopro space and 16 bits to
avoid banding and yet if I lift the curve a tiny bit or any other brightening trick
immediately there is banding. What?

Steve Zeeeee wrote:
What else happens with this choice and how does it affect photo editing?
As far as I know, with Photoshop CS5.5 Standard edition you'll have all GPU-dependent features, so you might just find the screen updates a hair slower - or not, modern processors are pretty fast, even in laptops. The primary difference is that the Adobe Color Engine is executed in the CPU, rather than the GPU, and as such it produces more accurate results.
With Photoshop Extended versions and/or CS6 I think there may be actual GPU-dependent features that are hobbled or disabled if you use Basic mode GPU operations, though to be honest I've lost track of all the permutations.
Try it and let us know whether Basic mode supports all that you do, just with more accurate color. It's what experts do when we need to use an alternate configuration setting to work around a problem.
By the way, the issue does not present itself even in Normal or Advanced modes if you choose to make the Adobe RGB 1998 profile your working space. Since few output devices provide gamuts larger than Adobe RGB it's a possible alternate workaround.
-Noel

Can you show slideshow within Lightroom 4.4 in Adobe RGB color space?

Can you show slideshow within Lightroom 4.4 (not export out from LR) in Adobe RGB color space provided that you are using a wide gamut monitor which is capable and hardware calibrated & profiled to show such color space?
If this is possible, what is required to do so in Windows 8 and i7-4770 & HD Graphics 4600 platform or does LR take care of it automatically?
This is very basic question, however, I could not find a clear answer/info from LR documentation, so wish that someone can advice.

Those settings are probably stored in a plist somewhere in ~/Library/Preferences. If you can locate the appropriate file, you should be able to copy it to all the network user folders.

Image in PDF error - Expected end of color space

Hi friends,
I am displaying a PDF file in an webdynpro application. The contents are coming from the output of a RFC. The pdf file contains an image. While I am running the Webdynpro application the image is not coming. An error popup <b>"Expected end of color space"</b> is generated. But the texts of pdf file is coming properly.
Please help.
With regards,
Sekhar

Hi Sekar
We are facing the same issue. Have you managed to resolve this issue ?
Please advise
Regards
Vivek

Asking the Bridge Team: Bridge "working color space" setting when one does not have the Suite?

Common sense tells me there is really no such thing as a
"working color space" in Bridge, because
Bridge is not an image editor, just a browser
Therefore, this may turn out to be a purely academic question; but that doesn't keep my curiosity from forcing me to ask it anyway. ;)
Is there a way to set the Bridge
"color settings" when one does not have the suite?
The only Adobe program I keep up to date is Photoshop, so I've never had the suite. My version of Photoshop is 11 (CS4) and I run updated
(not upgraded) versions of Adobe Acrobat 7.x, Illustrator 10.x and InDesign 2.x. Consequently, the Synchronize color settings command is not available to me.
It seems to me that Bridge is behaving like a proper color-managed browser (e.g. Firefox with color management enabled), in that it displays tagged image files correctly and assumes sRGB for untagged image files. This normally works fine.
But what if I wanted Bridge to assume my
Photoshop color working space for untagged images
so that it behaves the same as Photoshop? I'm just curious, as I deal with a minuscule, practically negligible amount of untagged files.
My reason for bringing it up now is that I don't recall this being explicitly mentioned in forum replies when users inquire about color settings in Bridge. A recent post regarding Version Cue in the Photoshop Macintosh forum got me thinking about this. Just wanting to make sure that I'm right in my assumption that
there is really no such thing as a
"working color space" in Bridge, because Bridge is not an image editor, just a browser.
Thanks in advance.

Hi Ramón,
Thanks for sharing the outcome of your tests. However, I may have found a bug/exception to Bridge's colour management policy!
It appears that CMYK EPS photoshop files are not colour managed in Adobe Bridge, even if they contain an embedded ICC profile.
I've tried every combination in the EPS 'Save As' dialogue box, so it doesn't seem to be an issue with file encoding. Also, Bridge doesn't rely on the low-res preview that is held within the EPS itself.
My guess is that Bridge is previewing the CMYK EPS with a Bridge-generated RGB image, but it's being displayed as monitor RGB (assigned) rather than colour managed (converted to monitor RGB). For most users the difference will be barely perceptible, but the problem became very noticeable when using Bridge to preview Newsprint CMYK images on a wide-gamut monitor (images that should have appeared muted really leapt off the screen!).
How do I report this to the Colour Police at Adobe?!?

Using PHP to generate images in alternate colors

I have a PNG image of a black silhouette graphic with
softened edges against a transparent background.
Can I use PHP to generate this image in alternate colors
(allowing the black graphic to be displayed in a color other than
black)?

AngryCloud posted in macromedia.dreamweaver:
> I have a PNG image of a black silhouette graphic with
softened
> edges against a transparent background.
>
> Can I use PHP to generate this image in alternate colors
> (allowing the black graphic to be displayed in a color
other than
> black)?
I have no experience with this, but I was just poking around
in the GD
references and found a comment on imagefill() that might
help:
http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.imagefill.php
Comment:
http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.imagefill.php#81873
Or you may need to work with some of the other alpha
functions.
Mark A. Boyd
Keep-On-Learnin' :)

Lightroom's 4 color "spaces"

I’m working on designing an advanced photography course. This course makes use of Lightroom and Photoshop in the photographic workflow.
I’m learning and researching myself as I go along, and I feel I have reached a ceiling on what I can work out from the sources at my disposal thus far.
So I am turning here for help.
I am trying to clarify how tones and colours are affected from the actual scene through to the printed page. This might seem like overkill to some. However, there is a lot of misunderstanding and confusion, not to mention heated discussions amongst photographers about these issues. I’m experimenting with metering and colour / tone targets and my calculations are only meaningful if I understand how tones and colours are affected at every stage of the workflow.
Here’s how I understand it:
There are 4 (sort of) Colour “spaces” in Develop where a real-time dynamic preview of an image is rendered
1.       The “viewing space” (ProPhotoRGB Chromaticity co-ordinates, sRGB gamma)
2.       The “computational space” (ProPhotoRGB chromaticity co-ordinates, linear gamma – “MelissaRGB”)
(Martin Evening’s Lightroom 3 book published by Adobe press - Appendix B, section on color space page 628-632)
Below that, things get a little fuzzy. According to Jeff Schewe (Real World Camera RAW for CS5, page 32) there is a sort of
3.            “Native Camera Space” and of course there is the
4.            RAW data in the file on disk.
So to generate the dynamically rendered preview, the image goes through the four “layers” as follows (from bottom to top). This is almost certainly flawed, but one has to start somewhere when trying to work things out :-)
1. The RAW file is read from disk. Colorimetric interpretation is performed using a camera profile (e.g. Adobe Standard for whatever camera it is you are using). This process puts the image data into “Native camera space” (“Plotted” onto CIE XYZ with D50 white point)
2. In “Native camera space, the scene white balance (as selected by user, guessed by Lightroom or reported by camera) as well as additional camera calibration panel matrix tweaks “informs” the colorimetric conversion into Lightroom’s “computational space” e.g. Melissa RGB. The colorimetric definition of camera RGB primaries and white is re-DEFINED. The demosaicing as well as chromatic aberration corrections are performed in “native camera space”
3. Almost all image processing calculations occur computationally in the “MelissaRGB Lightroom computational space”
4. What is displayed on the screen, however, has an sRGB tone curve applied. This represents the “viewing” space. The histogram is generated from this and the RGB colour percentage readouts are generated from this as well. In addition, some slider controls from user input are weighted back through the tone curve into the computational space below.
Could someone from Adobe kindly help me to clarify the steps? Eric are you reading this? :-)
Thanks in advance

Sandy - Thanks for the link. The spreadsheets you posted on your site is quite helpful.
Jao – I think what you said goes to the heart of what I am trying to achieve here: “Photograph a grey target at the exact same exposure with the exact same lighting but with different cameras and you'll end up with different values in the raw files” Which is why I encourage photographers to experiment with their cameras in order to understand exactly how the camera will respond in the heat of a real shoot. Set up a scene; take a picture, open in Lightroom. What is clipped and why? Use a reflective spot meter. Repeat. Use a hand held incident meter. Repeat. How much can you reliably recover? Are you happy with what your meter considers the mid-point (and what you set your exposure for on the camera) or do you need to compensate? Just how much latitude do you have between what your camera histogram shows as a blown out highlight and what Lightroom shows as a blown out highlight. This relates to tone. I could go on with more examples, but by now, I am (hopefully) making more sense.
I’m merely trying to clarify that which is already public in order to form a coherent mental picture. And by mental picture I do not mean an accurate representation of the minutiae and maths involved. Think of a subway map. It represents a bird’s eye view of a transportation system in a logical fashion, yet it bears almost no resemblance to the cartographical reality of the physical topography. I really don’t care where the tunnels go, how they were dug, how they are maintained or where they twist and turn. What I AM looking for is a logical (not physical) map. This map tells me where the different lines begin and end, and where I can change from one line to the other. The most important quality of the map as a whole is that it provides context. You can tell, at a glance, how different lines interact with each other and even how it links to other entities such as bus stations or public landmarks.
As many have rightfully pointed out, I should not have to care about the maths/secret sauce/internal calculations. And I don’t. In addition, I am a very happy Lightroom user and I am very comfortable using it. I know what a user needs to know to get his picture from A to B. There is no shortage of information on how to accomplish that.
It might help if I illustrate what I am trying to do below:
Please excuse the low resolution, the maximum height allowed for upload is 600 pixels. The picture below goes on the bottom left of the "layer" picture above.
Even though there are certainly many mistakes in my diagram, this is a helpful visualisation. I derived this diagram from publicly available information. As the subway map, this is a logical (not physical) representation that provides context in a visual form. With a little help from people like Eric I am sure I can correct and expand it. The net result is an enhanced understanding of Lightroom and ACR and where it fits into the photographic process, both in terms of tone and colour.
I am not posting the entire chart here since I am not even certain that a 4 “layered” representation is an appropriate logical representation. I posted the spine of the chart with the 4 “layers” and one part that elaborates on the colorimetric interpretation between the two bottom layers. Comments and corrections are welcomed. And I am convinced that this can be accomplished without divulging anything confidential.

Rendering Chroma 4:2:2 with color space 0-255

Hello Everyone.
Just as a warning I'm fairly new to video editing, so I will probably not say this right. I have a screen recording that I used FRAPS to collect, and then I packaged it into an .AVI container w/ a lararith codec , and a 24bit RGB color scheme in video dub. I have then opened and edited that video in Premiere Pro and want to export it. The problem that I'm having is screen recording has a LOT of color between 0-16 and 235-255, so any broadcast color space I use makes the video look awful. I was wondering if anyone knows how I can render out with a 0-255 color space and a decent chroma subsampling (my guess is 4:2:2).
Thank you everyone for your help.

No, you are asking the right question, and I understand your problem. I just can't recreate it.
I just took a really wild Quicktime video I downloaded from Videoblocks.com that isn't anywhere close to being broadcast safe, and I exported it to a Windows Media file.
The first picture is a screenshot from the video. (it is a set of lower thirds in one video - I am just supposed to use one at a time of course.
The second picture is the Reference monitor from frame 12;24
I exported the sequence to a Windows Media file and then imported it, putting it right on top of the other video on the sequence so I could make sure to be on the exact same frame. The third picture is the reference monitor from the WMV file on the sequence. As you can see, there is not much difference. Some, but you have to look closely.
So, my question to you, since I do not use FRAPS, is what are your sequence setting? Did you just drop a clip on the New button to create a new sequence with the exact right settings? And, are you making the mistake of using the renders to help you export?
The problem is that I don't understand your source material. I guess I could download FRAPS from somewhere and give it a try? I am just a bit busy with other things today.

Open in external editor -- original color space workaround

I was frustrated--like other's whose posts I've read--by the fact that when opening files (tiff, jpeg, psd) in an external editor they are all converted to the Adobe 1998 rgb space.
I am working around this comfortably and by using some Automator actions that I got from Ben Long's Complete Digital Photography site: http://www.completedigitalphotography.com/?p=414#more-414
In my Pictures folder I have an Auto Processing subfolder with Photoshop droplets and lots of 'hot folders' tied to Applescript folder actions. I made two new folders: OPEN in Photoshop & IMPORT to Aperture
The Open in Photoshop folder has attached from Automator the following actions from the default Finder suite: Open Finder Items and Move to Trash.
The Open action is self explanitory, the next step of moving the recently opened file to the trash guarantees that I can't save to the source file. This forces Photoshop to do a Save As even if I hit command + S. The Save As prompts me for a location and I choose the Import to Aperture folder.
The IMPORT to Aperture folder has attached the Import Photos action from Ben Long's Aperture suite. By selecting the Delete the Source Images After Importing Them option and the Show Action When Run option I get a prompt asking what project to add the new files to and the old files are deleted from my hot folder after the import.
This isn't a perfect round trip solution because I still end up with two copies of the image in Aperture--even if I was just opening the source image to tweak an adjustment layer. I might create an Applescript that would prompt the user and delete the precvious copy of the image if desired.
Like many of you I was feeling blue yesterday about rumors of changes in the Aperture team at Adobe. Blue not because I beleive Aperture's going away, instead because I expect if this rumor is true that we will see some delays in the short term while the new team gets up to speed.
While I am waiting for that to happen I intend to use this discussion site to find creative workarounds for Aperture's current limitations and share them as widely as possible. Many of you are already doing the same.
Thanks!

Yes you could do that.
I was part of the alpha/beta test group for Adobe CS2. Most of my work was with scripting and automation, especially for Bridge. I did have a very good dialog with Bruce Fraser, Seth Resnick and other testers whose opinions are as good as fact in my book.
The consensus was that most digital cameras--certainly the pro models--had a color gamut substantially larger than Adobe RGB (1998). Note that ACR give the option of developing an image into sRGB, Adobe RGB, Color Match RGB, or Pro Photo RGB; 8-bit or 16-bit. That's the way I want it in Aperture.
If you use the perceptial rendering intent (this is almost certainly what Aperture is using as its undisclosed default setting) then you will compress the wider gamut of the camera into the smaller Adobe RGB (1998) gamut. If in Photoshop you used the Convert to profile command and choose the perceptial rendering you would probably expand the color gamut back out a little bit. Why bother? Aperture really should have options for open in external editor like the very good export version settings.
I have in my Aperture library a bunch of 16-bit grayscale scans and some CYMK files that seem to be working fine with the workflow above and Automator actions. (Lab files won't import.) I wouldn't want to go through the convert to Adobe RGB (1998) and reconvert to proper space with these files. My workflow is letting my store these files in Aperture and still edit in native color spaces in Photoshop with minimal effort for a round trip. I like it.
P.S. I said in my original post that it would be easy to write an Applscript to delete the orignial file in Aperture when reimporting a slightly modified Photoshop version. It may be possible but its not easy in the current version which only has a bare skeleton of Applescript functionality.

ACR 4.1 Color space(s)

Windows XP Bridge CS3
ACR 3.7 and previous used to give the option to convert to various colour spaces (profiles I always get confused here).
I've noticed that my Canon raw files show up in bridge as "colour mode RGB"
If I edit in ACR4.1 and save; they show up as "colour mode RGB and colour profile Adobe RGB" which is the color space of the camera (20D).
Files that I have previosly edited in lightroom (ACR 4) show up as "pro photo RGB"
I have my colour space in photoshop set to pro photo RGB so lightroom edited files open without a mismatch whereas files edited in ACR4.1 in bridge produce a colour space mismatch.
Am I missing something? or has the behavior of ACR changed in this respect since the comming of version 4?

It sounds like you have Camera Raw set to Adobe RGB. You can change that to Pro Photo RGB.
Along the bottom of the Camera Raw dialog box there should be a link that lists the color space, bit depth, file size, and resolution. Click on that change the Space from Adobe RGB to ProPhoto RGB.

The availability of color space in RAW, TIFF and JPEG files

This is useful if your new to DSLR photography.
This is Nikon response on my question in the discussion: View photo metadata
I'm assuming that you know that Adobe RGB shows about 50% and sRGB 35% of CIELAB color space.
In a DSLR camera like the Nikon D800 you can select a color space (Adobe RGB or sRGB) in the shooting menu.
In Adobe Lightroom 4.3 the RAW metadata shows no color space info. Therefore I asked why not?
In the (Dutch) Nikon D800 manual on page 84 (about RAW) and 274 (about color space) and Nikon FAQ website there is no descripton about the color space availability/behavior in RAW, JPEG and TIFF files.
In the book "Mastering the Nikon D800 by Darrel Young" on page 125 - 126 is written: "If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB....."
All experts on this forum answered: color space does not apply/affect the RAW data file or RAW files have no color space.
The respone of Nikon Europe Support (Robert Vermeulen) was: In Nikon D800 NEF RAW files both color spaces (Adobe RGB and sRGB) are always physically available. In JPEG and TIFF files only the in the shooting menu selected color space is physically available. So the forum experts gave the correct answer!
Of course you can convert afterwards a JPEG or TIFF file with sRGB color space to Adobe RGB but you don't get more colors.
When you install the Microsoft Camera Codec Pack or FastPictureViewer Codec Pack they only show color space metadata for JPEG and TIFF files and nothing for RAW because color space "doesn't exist". I thought the codec packs removed the color space metadata for my RAW files.
Adobe Lightroom also can not show color space for RAW files because that "doesn't exist".

Van-Paul wrote:
The respone of Nikon Europe Support (Robert Vermeulen) was: In Nikon D800 NEF RAW files both color spaces (Adobe RGB and sRGB) are physically available. In JPEG and TIFF files only the in the shooting menu selected color space is physically available.
I still think this is an evasive answer that doesn't really pinpoint the exact chain of events that take place. They are:
1. The raw file contains the naked data captured by the sensor. This is just a very dark grayscale image.
2. In the raw converter it is encoded into a working color space to process the information. In Lightroom this is known as "Melissa RGB", or linear gamma Prophoto. It is also demosaiced to bring back the color information.
3. From Lightroom it can be exported to one of the familiar color spaces like sRGB or Adobe RGB. This is, in principle at least, a normal profile conversion.
These three steps are what the camera does to produce a jpeg. So the basic steps are the same, the camera is just doing it automatically (and usually butchering the image in the process...).
This Darrell Young is, I'm sure, an excellent photographer, but in this he is seriously confused and just propagating a common myth. Anyway, thanks for bringing up this discussion, hope you didn't object too much to the tone of the answers... Our only concern here was to get this right and with no room for misunderstanding.

Alternate Color Space

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