Business on : product s/w cost and implementation cost - approx

One of our employer, who is a medium segment coy is asking about approx cost involved in
1. cost of product software including license
2. implementation cost/consultancy
3. In general what are the modules covered in this
4. approx project implementation period
if possible, arrange the url on benefits of business one
regards
madhu

Hello,
The detail can be difference per country especially about mandays calculation. The license could be the same for all countries. The estimations are:
1. 5 license = 13,000 USD
2. Consultancy = 250 - 400 USD (depends on consultant experience and certifications)
3. The modules are ERP ranges from Financial - HR. Total modules 13 including reports.
4.30 days for standard and no customisation
The url is :
http://www.sap.com/solutions/sme/businessone/index.epx
http://www.sap.com/smallbusiness/business_value/costs/index.epx
Rgds,

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Production and Implementation

Hello Gurus,
                      I want the details like....In production support what are the our usual works(roles), and what we have to do.
                      If we are getting tickets, in which manner we have to respond for those tickets.
                      What are the exact daily works in a production support project. And what are the exact daily works in a implementation project.
                      What are the t-codes we have to be perfect in support and implementation.
Please help me
Thanks and Regards
Kumar.

Hi,
It may vary in different projects.
I can just give you a couple of general roles.
Migration project
Designing mapping documents in order to check the need of creation in BW.
Developing various objects like Cubes, ODS, Info Sources, InfoObjects etc.
Designing Transfer Rules and update rules including start routines, update routines and Transfer routines as per the requirement.
Scheduling Info Packages to carry out the data loading process. Involved in data loading from SAP R/3 to Source layer ODSs into BW. Loaded data using Data mart, as the Business layer and Report layer ODSs get loaded from source layer ODSs using data mart functionality of BW.
Involve in the backfilling of historical data from present sys to SAP BW .
Developing the Master/Transactional data process chains considering the dependency among the BW objects and automated the triggering and monitoring of the same on daily, weekly and monthly basis.
Transportation of various BW components.
Performing unit testing and data validation of newly developed and enhanced objects in Quality BW system in terms of providing an efficient solution.
Responsible for overseeing the Quality procedures related to the project.
Responsible to deliver (Transport into Prod) the object as per the scheduled deadlines; with accuracy of deliverables by considering the quality norms.
Involving in the Client/Onsite communication for any client side clarifications, for assignment of work, for discussing on project status related issues, etc.
Support project
Data Load Monitoring:
1.Carried out data load on a daily, weekly and monthly basis using Process chains from both SAP Source systems as well as Non-SAP Source systems such as Informatica.
2.Resolving Data load error such as Invalid characters, Time period conversion, Currency conversion, Duplicate records, etc
3.Ensuring the availability of the updated data in the datatarget on time.
4.Spooling out data through Infospoke from SAP BW to systems like Trillium, Ariba (Reporting Tool)
Ticket Resolution:
1.Process chain modification: Working on Optimizing Process chain by creating new process chain considering the load dependencies.
2.Reloading of R/3 data from different clusters Reconciliation issues
3.Enhancements as per Business requirement.
Additional responsibilities:
Preparing design documents from the Business Requirement docs and identified the relevant data targets for satisfying the customer requirements.
Creation of Operational manual: BW Run & Maintain Support.
Process Chain Detail Documentation (Sequencing & Dependency within Local Chains).
Monitoring checklist Document (From Process Chain Perspective)
BW Doc checklist preparation
Table space activity with basis team.
Data load analysis taking into account the CPU utilization.
Applying Support packs and performing ORT.
Most projects have different number of cubes with varying volume of data. You cant generalize this.
hope this helps,
Refer
https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/go/portal/prtroot/docs/library/uuid/08f1b622-0c01-0010-618c-cb41e12c72be
Roles & Responsibilities for Junior & Senior consultants(Technical)
Thanks,
JituK

CN41N and S_ALR_87013533 report not showing Production order planned cost

Hi Experts,
I am having issue to get total planned production order values in my CN41N or S_ALR_87013533 cost report. I am facing 2 issues :
1. CN41N repoet does not show individual material cost planned in BOM.
2. CN41N report and S_ALR87013533 report does not show total value but only picking fixed value.
Example :
1. CN41N report :
Above screenshot shows no values in Project plan cost & Order cost column but it shows total cost as a lumpsum on top for project. I need to know how can i get material cost populated here for Project Valuated stock material?
2. S_ALR_87013533
This report shows Total Cost of BOM as 1 line under Material Procurement activity similar to CN41N report. Also Order value is picking from Fixed cost from planned order and total cost is added on top. How can i get Total cost picked from production order?
Is there any Setting in PS config which allow me to pick the detail production order plan cost in both report under planned cost.
Thanks in advance.
Ashish

Hi Ashish,
I doubt whether Item level reporting in S_ALR... (hierarchy report) is possible or not because I haven't seen item level cost in them only the lump-sum cost because they are summarized at cost object level itself. Navigation path are there which we use to go into details of cost.
Please check the following links:
https://scn.sap.com/thread/1743833
(In the above thread,focus on Mr. Mohamed Rafi comment.)
http://scn.sap.com/thread/3530080
http://scn.sap.com/thread/1311820
Order cost plan in report CN41N
Display of plan cost.,&nbsp;CN41N&nbsp;|&nbsp;ABAP,&nbsp;SAP,&nbsp;benX AG,&nbsp;benXBrain,&…
Just an additional pointer ,have a look on your costing variant and variation variant settings for material section.
Regards
Saurabh

Use of different production versions for MRP and costing

Dear PP Gurus ,
We have a scenario in which there are multiple production versions for a particular product .The MRP run as welll as costing run considers only the production version 0001.
We would like the system to consider different production versions for MRP and costing ..that is 0001 for MRP and 0005 for costing .
Is this possible ... if yes ...Kindly suggest the config and master settings for this to happen .
Ram ~

Dear Ramakrishna,
For doing the costing for a specific production version use CK11N,under quantity structure tab key you
can assign the prod.version which is to be used for costing purpose.
While taking MRP if you want to consider the particular Prod.version,assign the demand to the
correct prod.version under schedule line tab in MD61.
Otherwise the system always picksup the first prod.version for MRP.
One more alternative is you have to lock the other prod.versions if you want the system to consider a
particular prod.version.
Check and revert back.
Regards
Mangalraj.S

SAP Business One Best-Practice System Setup and Sizing

SAP Business One Best-Practice System Setup and Sizing
Get recommendations from SAP and hardware specialists on system setup and sizing
SAP Business One is a single, affordable, and easy-to-implement solution that integrates the entire business across financials, sales, customers, and operations. With SAP Business One, small businesses can streamline their operations, get instant and complete information, and accelerate profitable growth. SAP Business One is designed for companies with less than 100 employees, less than $75 million in annual revenue, and between 1 and 30 system users, referred to as the SAP Business One sweet spot. The sweet spot covers various industries and micro-verticals which have different requirements when it comes to the use of SAP Business One.
One of the initial steps during the installation and implementation of SAP Business One is the definition of the system landscape and architecture. Numerous factors affect the system landscape that needs to be created to efficiently run SAP Business One.
The <a href="http://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/B1/BestPractiseSystemSetupand+Sizing">SAP Business One Best-Practice System Setup and Sizing Wiki</a> provides recommendations on how to size and configure the system landscape and architecture for SAP Business One based on best practices.

For such high volume licenses, you may contact the SAP Local Product Experts.
You may get their contact info from this site
[https://websmp209.sap-ag.de/~sapidb/011000358700001455542004#India]

E-Business Suite Application Dev using OAF and ADF (White Paper Feb. 2008)

Hi,
In Oracle White Paper entitled "E-Business Suite Application Dev using OAF and ADF (Feb. 2008)" it was mentioned on page 7 :
+"When ADF 11g becomes production, we will publish a revised paper that compares OAF with ADF 11g, and discuss development against E-Business Suite."+
I've had no luck finding a new comparison table for OAF R12 with ADF 11g :(
can anyone help me on this?
thanks in advance,
Adrian

Srini Chavali wrote:
It is still not clear if your have to use SSO - the scripts loadsdk.sql and regapp.sql specifically are for Oracle Single Sign ON (OSSO) - the authentication schemes referred to on page 20 of the same doc do not require SSO. So, is SSO a requirement in your scenario ? If not, you should be following the steps in the section titled "Confuguring Custom Authentication" (beginning of page 20).Ouch..Sorry Srini, I have completely misinterpreted by the page no.'s in Adobe pdf reader.I was telling you about page 18 of the document.
Anyway i'll start with configuring Custom Authentication as by your suggestion.
But i'll move forward with no understandings about SSO and its implementations.
All I could get is this links
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E15586_01/webcenter.1111/e12405/wcadm_security_sso.htm
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E15523_01/install.1111/e12002/sso_das.htm
Is this link correct to start learning about SSO or do I need to learn anything (LDAP,OAM,etc..) before that ?

Management VLAN Design and Implementation

Greetings, friends. I'm having trouble getting a clear picture of how a management VLAN ought to look. I just installed a Catalyst 6509-E as my core switch, and as soon as they arrive I'm going to be replacing all of our other (HP) switches with Catalyst 3560X switches. I understand the reasoning behind segregating traffic, not using VLAN1, etc., but I've never actually implemented a management VLAN--I've always just accessed the switches via the IPs assigned to them where all the client traffic flows (not VLAN1, by the way).
Is "management VLAN" simply what we as humans call a VLAN we dedicate to management activities, or is there something official in these switches to designate a "management VLAN?"
Is it best practice to include SNMP, netflow, syslog, and NTP as "management" traffic?
There's a lot of documentation talking -about- management and management VLANs, but unless I'm blind or not looking hard enough I can't seem to find any implementation whitepapers or best practices whitepapers that demonstrate setting one up on a campus LAN. Are you able to point me in the right direction to find such documentation? Is it perhaps buried in a manual somewhere that isn't explicitly labeled "Management VLAN Design and Implementation" or somesuch?
What is the best practice for accessing the management VLAN? Inter-VLAN routing + ACLs? Multi-homed PCs or servers? Additional PCs to be used as access stations?
Thank you for your wisdom, experience, and advice!
Kevin

1. Yes, you may want to keep this traffic separate of the other traffic limiting device management access to just this vlan, as this prevents eavesdropping.
2. Indeed all other housekeeping goes via this VLAN altough you could limit it to the interactive or session traffic.
3. On a campus you could think of one big VLAN spanning the campus, one a multi-site environment or where you use L3 to go to you datacenters you probably need multiple management lan's. I've seen implementations where the management traffic was kept separate and even didn't use the routing protocol in use. The whole management lan was statically routed and would work even if OSPF or BGP was down.
4. I feel a situation where the people providing support are connected on the lan giving access to the devices is probably best. A dual homed pc is a good solution I think, other customer feel the management lan should be treated as a DMZ accessible via a firewall, but the hardcore customer insist on a second pc connected to the management lan.
Points to consider are as always,
Find the single point of failure. Any device, L2 L3 firewall that could cut off management from accessing a part of the network.
Find the right balance between security, costs, easy of access for the business your in.
Cheers,
Michel

Architecture and Implementation

Hello All,
I am kind of new to this field and I have started building applications, and now I have two terms that I would like some to explain to me. Sounds simple and crazy but, what do the terms "architecture" and "implementation" mean in the perfect Hyperion sense. For example, what does an Essbase architecture do, for example, does he design cubes? etc and other question is about "implementation" what does it mean when someone says "I have implemented 3 planning applications?
If someone could spare a little of their precious time to explain these terms that would be wonderful. A link would be great as well.
Thanks

Its recommended to maintain three environment.s
1. Development Environment ( BOD )
2. Quality Environment ( BOQ )
3. Production Environment ( BOP )
BOD : Development environment where you do all development. This environment may not be as same as Production with respect to server, resources and so on.
BOQ: Quality environment where Business users do testing. This environment is expected to be same server, same version when compared with Production. Resources such as memory and number of servers could vary.
Once approved by Business Users, content will be migrated from BOQ to BOP.
BOP: Production environment only meant for usage not for any development. UAT happens here once again to check the functionality of reports & other objects
In general, the BOQ and BOP content is always same except the objects which are under Business Users testing.
When it comes to backup, we must take frequent backups for CMS database, Input FRS, Output FRS and Audti Database.
The fequency depends how frequently the production environment is being updated.
Best Regards
Gowtham
[My site|www.xpert4ms.com]
[Business objects version history|http://xpert4ms.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=142]

Product is not abstract and does not override abstract method

Received the following errors.
Product.java:3: Product is not abstract and does not override abstract method ge
tDisplayText() in Displayable
public class Product implements Displayable
^
Product.java:16: getDisplayText() in Product cannot implement getDisplayText() i
n Displayable; attempting to use incompatible return type
found : void
required: java.lang.String
public void getDisplayText()
^
2 errors
Code reads as follows
import java.text.NumberFormat;
public class Product implements Displayable
     private String code;
     private String description;
     private double price;
     public Product()
          this.code = "";
          this.description = "";
          this.price = 0;
public void getDisplayText()
String message =
"Code: " + code + "\n" +
"Description: " + description + "\n" +
"Price: " + this.getFormattedPrice() + "\n";
     public Product(String code, String description, double price)
          this.code = code;
          this.description = description;
          this.price = price;
     public void setCode(String code)
          this.code = code;
     public String getCode(){
          return code;
     public void setDescription(String description)
          this.description = description;
     public String getDescription()
          return description;
     public void setPrice(double price)
          this.price = price;
     public double getPrice()
          return price;
     public String getFormattedPrice()
          NumberFormat currency = NumberFormat.getCurrencyInstance();
          return currency.format(price);
Please help!

Received the following errors.
Product.java:3: Product is not abstract and does not
override abstract method ge
tDisplayText() in Displayable
public class Product implements Displayable
^
Product.java:16: getDisplayText() in Product cannot
implement getDisplayText() i
n Displayable; attempting to use incompatible return
type
found : void
required: java.lang.String
public void getDisplayText()
^
2 errors
Code reads as follows
Please use the code tags when posting code. There is a code button right above the text box where you enter your post. Click on it and put the code between the code tags.
These error messages are quite clear in telling what is wrong. You have an Interface called Displayable that specifies a method something like thispublic String getDisplayText() {But in your Product source code, you created thismethodpublic void getDisplayText() {The compiler is complaining because the methods are not the same.
You also need to return a String in the method probalby like thisreturn message;

Ask the Expert: Plan, Design, and Implement Mobile Remote Access, the Cisco Collaboration Edge Architecture

Welcome to the Cisco® Support Community Ask the Expert conversation. This is an opportunity to learn and ask questions about planning, designing, and implementing mobile remote access (Cisco Collaboration Edge Architecture) with Cisco subject matter experts Aashish Jolly and Abhijit Anand.
Cisco Collaboration Edge Architecture is an architecture that provides VPN-less access of Cisco Unified Communications resources to Cisco Jabber® users. This discussion is dedicated to addressing questions about design best practices while implementing mobile remote access.
For more information, refer to the Unified Communications Mobile and Remote Access via Cisco VCS deployment guide.
Aashish Jolly is a network consulting engineer who is currently serving as the Cisco Unified Communications consultant for the ExxonMobil Global account. Earlier at Cisco, he was part of the Cisco Technical Assistance Center (TAC), where he helped Cisco partners with installation, configuring, and troubleshooting Cisco Unified Communications products such as Cisco Unified Communications Manager and Manager Express, Cisco Unity® solutions, Cisco Unified Border Element, voice gateways and gatekeepers, and more. He has been associated with Cisco Unified Communications for more than seven years. He holds a bachelor of technology degree as well as Cisco CCIE® Voice (#18500), CCNP® Voice, and CCNA® certifications and VMware VCP5 and Red Hat RHCE certifications.
Abhijit Singh Anand is a network consulting engineer with the Cisco Advanced Services field delivery team in New Delhi. His current role involves designing, implementing, and optimizing large-scale collaboration solutions for enterprise and defense customers. He has also been an engineer at the Cisco TAC. Having worked on multiple technologies including wireless and LAN switching, he has been associated with Cisco Unified Communications technologies since 2006. He holds a master’s degree in computer applications and multiple certifications, including CCIE Voice (#19590), RHCE, and CWSP and CWNP.
Remember to use the rating system to let Aashish and Abhijit know if you have received an adequate response.
Because of the volume expected during this event, our experts might not be able to answer every question. Remember that you can continue the conversation on the Cisco Support Community Collaboration, Voice and Video page, in the Jabber Clients subcommunity, shortly after the event. This event lasts through June 20, 2014. Visit this forum often to view responses to your questions and the questions of other Cisco Support Community members.

Hi Marcelo,
Yes, there are some requirements for certificates in Expressway.
Expressway Core (Exp-C)
- Can be signed by either External or Internal CA
- Better to use a cluster name even if you start with 1 peer in Exp-C cluster. In the future, if more peers are added, changes would be minimal.
- Better to use FQDN of cluster as CN of certificate, this way the traversal zone configuration on Expressway-E won't require any change even if new peers are added to Exp-C cluster.
- If CUCM is mixed mode, include security profile names (in FQDN format) as Subject Alternate Names
- The Chat Node Aliases that are configured on the IM and Presence servers. They will be required only for Unified Communications XMPP federation deployments that intend to use both TLS and group chat. (Note that Unified Communications XMPP federation will be supported in a future Expressway release). The Expressway-C automatically includes the chat node aliases in the CSR, providing it has discovered a set of IM&P servers.
- For TLS b/w CUCM, IM-P & Exp-C
+ If using self-signed certificates on CUCM, IM/P. Load Cisco Tomcat, cup, cup-xmpp certificates from IM-P on Exp-C. Load callmanager, Cisco Tomcat certificates from CUCM on Exp-C.
+ If using Internal CA signed certificates on CUCM, IM/P. Load Root CA certificates on Exp-C.
+ Load CA certificate under tomcat-trust, cup-trust, cup-xmpp-trust on IM-P.
+ Load CA certificate under tomcat-trust, callmanager-trust on CUCM.
Expressway Edge (Exp-E)
- Signed by External CA
- Configured Unified Communications domain as Subject Alternate Name
- If using a cluster, select FQDN of this peer as CN and FQDN of Cluster + this peer as Subject Alternate Name.
- If XMPP federation is being deployed, enter the same Chat Node Aliases as entered in Exp-C.
For more details, please refer to the Certificate Creation Guide for Cisco Expressway x8.1.1
http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/td/docs/voice_ip_comm/expressway/config_guide/X8-1/Cisco-Expressway-Certificate-Creation-and-Use-Deployment-Guide-X8-1.pdf
- Aashish

Product master in CRM and R/3

Hi Gurus,
can anybody make my understanding clear regarding the difference of product master in CRM and R/3. any links to know more on it will also help.
Thank you in advance.
Regards,
sasmita

Hi Sasmita,
Here are some of inputs will help for undersatnding:
The CRM product master is a collection or arrangement of various settypes which contain specific data.
Pre-defined settypes are delivered (e.g. basic product data; conversion of unit of measure)
Enhancement of the product master with own settypes is possible
Settypes correspond to database tables
Attributes correspond to your product characteristics.
Attributes can be summarized with the help of set types
In the system there are standard set types which are always available. However, you can also create and implement user-defined set types, to depict marketing data, for example.
The usage of set types can be restricted (e.g. certain set types only allowed for products of type product) Distribution chain-dependent set types can be created.
A set type is only permissable for a product when the set type is assigned to the category to which you then assign the product. To assign a set type to a category, use the function Edit categories and hierarchies.
You can assign a set type to several product categories within a category hierarchy. However, each set type can only be assigned within one hierarchy. In doing so, a multiple assignment of a set type to one and the same product (over contrasting categories) is prevented.
A product can be assigned to several categories, as long as these are within different category hierarchies. A product can also be assigned to only one category per hierarchy.
The assignment to the base hierarchy R3PRODSTYP is vital, so that basic data set types are available, for example.
R3PRODSTYP depicts the product types present in the R/3 system.
Customer product numbers can be assigned. This Customer product ID is stored in the relationships
Global Trade Item Number (GTIN)
Customer-own checks can be defined before a product can be saved. Enhancements  Consistency check
Transaction :
COMMPR01-Maintain Products
COMMPR02-Mass Maintenance for Inactive Products
COMM_HIERARCHY-Maintain Categories and Hierarchies
COMM_ATTRSET- Maintain Set Types and Attributes
Tables:
Product (active) COMM_PRODUCT
Product (inactive) COMM_IPRODUCT
Product description COMM_PRSHTEXT
Category hierarchy COMM_HIERARCHY
Category COMM_CATEGORY
Set types COMC_SETTYPE
Attributes COMC_ATTRIBUTE
Relationships COMM_IL_*
COMM_PRODUCT : Product header and administration data.
COMM_CATEGORY : Category
COMM_HIERARCHY : Category Hierarchy
COMM_PR_FRG_REL :
COMM_FRGTYPE :
COMC_SETTYPE :
COMC_PRODUCT : General Product Settings
COMC_R3_FIELDS : Assignment of R/3 material master fields to CFOP
COMM_CFGMAT : Basic Data for Materials
Hope this will help.
Regards,
Arjun
Pl. Do reward the points

How to Unlicensed E-business suite product ?

Hi,
How to Unlicensed E-business suite product module ?
If I want to take off CASH management which is currently showing as licensed product like that.
Thanks

Hi,
There is no direct way to achieve this, so you will have to restore the application/database files from a backup before this module was licensed. If you cannot afford this solution, please log a SR and see if Oracle support would suggest any workaround.
Note: Please do not update any table manually unless you are instructed to do so by Oracle Support.
Regards,
Hussein

Where can I find the download link for Adobe Acrobat Installer DC? We bought the product as a program and not as a subscription. Thanks'

Where can I find the download link for Adobe Acrobat Installer DC? We bought the product as a program and not as a subscription. Thanks'

I forgot to get back to you. Thank you very much for your prompt reply.
Your suggestion helped!
Pamela Oettel
*Oh by the way, referrals to your friends are the heart of my business! If
you know of someone who is buying or selling a home, please give me a call.*
cell: 510-703-8636
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On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 2:29 AM, GautamBahl <[email protected]>

I can't log in the App store because an from Zambia which is not listed in Apple outlets. How do i go around this as apple products are using globally and not only in the listed countries. My product is a Mac book pro.

I can't log in the App store because am from Zambia which is not listed in Apple outlets. How do i go around this as apple products are used globally and not only in the listed countries. My product is a Mac book pro. i feel this limits how i can use my product

Unfortunately you have taken an Apple product outside of the area where Apple currently does business. There isn't legally a way around this. Apple cannot license apps to you where you currently live.

Business Cycle between a Customer/Buyer and Vendor/Seller

Hello everybody,
Can anybody send me a link which explains the entire business process involved between a customer and the vendor, right from creation of PR to delivering the products?
Cheers,
Deepak.

Hi Deepak,
In procurement scenario, assume that you have a company and you want to purchase some raw materials for manufacturing the end product.
The stores manager in your store room realises that a particular raw material is going out of of stock (based on the inventory mngt rules) and hence he creates a request for purchase. This is called Purchase requisition creation in SAP.
This PR will be now reviewed by the guy in procurement section. He will try to ask the production dept, whether this material is needed now. Based on the approval (PR release by release procedures), the procurement guy creates a Purchase Order on a Vendor. Once the PO is created, the softcopy of the same will be send to the vendor through email/fax/printout etc.
Now the vendor will deliver the goods which will be received by the stores guy (Goods Receipt). Simultaneously the invoice from the vendor will be received by the Finance Dept(Invoice Receipt)
Now the Invoice receipt will be compared with the PO, and if values and quantities are tallying , the amount will be paid based on the payment terms.So it is like
PR-PO-GR-IR-Payment is the process cycle in procurement. Here the vendor, various depts in ur organisation plays the role.
On the sales side, assume that you are owing a company, and you sell things. One of your customers want some materials from you.
For this, he creates an Inquiry asking for some details about that material(price, delivery date etc)
You will respond to that Inquiry by giving him a Quote(Quotation)
Now the customer accepts your quotation for price, quantity, delivery date, other discounts etc and he finally creates an order for the material.
Once you receive the order, you make the materials available, and you then deliver the materials to him (Delivery and Goods Issue)
Subsequently you also send him an invoice.
So the typical sales process will be like
Inquiry-Quotation-Sales order--Delivery-Goods Issue---Invoice
Though these are the basic processes in procurement and sales, there are lot of variations in these processes based on the business requirements.
There are also functionalities in SAP that you can make one of your customers as a vendor of a service. For example you give consumable goods to a shop, but you buy some advertisement space in his shop.
Hope the answer satisifies you.Pls lemme know if you need more info.

Business on : product s/w cost and implementation cost - approx

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