CMYK output

I LOVE Pages! I was able to throw together four high quality pages with fine graphics and style in little time at my customers site. They were impressed.
Just my luck, once I posted the PDF files on my .Mac HomePage for the printing company to download for publishing, they reported to me that the PDF's were RGB and not CMYK which they needed.
I have tried everything I can find to export or convert a CMYK PDF from pages. I have also tried converting with Acrobat and Photoshop but they distort the text.
Without CMYK ability, this program is a waste of my time and money.
Can anyone tell me how to salvage this?
Many points to the one that gets this one.
Thanks Much everyone.

Well, I'm afraid, if you're doing a book that includes graphic illustrations, it's not that simple. Pages is excellent for setting up a manuscript, but I wouldn't expect to get all the way through production with just Pages (or with just Word or any other word processor.)
I'll give you an example: For O'Reilly, I work in a hugely complex Word template, which means that when I send the manuscript, it's already nearly totally formatted as the text is going to appear. But although I do this, and send in very carefully corrected photos for the figures, it still gets torn apart by production--the graphics go out to the artists who do the color seps and recorrect them for CMYK, the text goes to someone who goes through and substitutes any symbols they have their own in-house font for (like the symbols for the various keystrokes). Then the whole thing is put into Framemaker, a color pdf is made of the final layout, and that is sent to me for final proofing, both of text and graphics color, before it gets plated, or if we're in a real hurry, I get a grayscale pdf and separate large sheets of the graphics to check.
I'm not saying you couldn't do this, just that it's a large complex task if you want to include color. A novel wouldn't be that hard to do.
In your case, I would suggest maybe investing in a good photo quality printer and a cheap laser for the text. I have often printed brochures and such by making two copies of the file, one with the b&w stuff and one with the graphics, and running once through the laser for the text and once through my inkjet for the graphics.
If you are doing this at home, rather than CMYK, you need: 1. a good quality printer (canon or epson would be my choice), 2.the right ink and paper for that particular printer, or you can convert the file all day long and it will look lousy when printed.
For the published version, that's what publishers and graphic artists get paid for. If I were to publish a printed book myself, I'd definitely factor hiring someone who knows about production to help with the layout/final file/color sep process.
EDIT I should mention that there are several active maling lists for self-publishing authors, where you can find knowledgeable help from people who've done just what you want to do. I would definitely investigate joining one of them. It could save you a lot of tiime and grief looking for publishers, artists, supplies, etc. (I might point out that distribution is the toughest part of self-publishing, much more so than creating the physical book.)

Similar Messages

Need Info on RGB to CMYK

Hi,
I am new to Illustrator (CS5) and not fully comfortable with RGB vs CMYK. For instance, I created a logo for use on the web using Document Color Mode: RGB where my background color in RGB is 0, 0, 130. When I create a Print document using Document Color Mode: CMYK and copy the logo into the print document, it converts that background color to CMYK (C:100, M:98, Y:16 K:18) where the RGB is now (44, 45, 111).
Is there a way to get a closer match to the original RGB color 0, 0, 130? When the specifications for the print advertisement says images must be in CMYK, I hope I am accomplishing this by using the Print Document Color Mode of CMYK vs RGB? I feel somewhat ignorant on utilizing the RGB vs CMYK color modes and if anyone can give me a tip on what techniques they use to get a closer match of colors for RGB to CMYK or vice versa, I would love to hear it.
Thank you,
Keith

Keith,
First, be aware that you have posted to the Photoshop forum, not the Illustrator forum. The general concepts of color and color management are the same across the spectrum of digital imaging. However, its implementation is slightly different from application to application, so you may also want to post your question to the Illlustrator forum.
[EDIT: Brain fart on my part... This is the color management forum, NOT the Photoshop forum, so you are in the right place! (I spend most of my time in the Photoshop forum; I lost track of where I was...)]
That said, you're running up against a general concept: color gamut.
The color you've spec'd in your RGB file (0/0/130 - and we'll assume for now that it's in the sRGB color space) is outside the gamut of every CMYK color space. That means that the RGB color you see can not be reproduced using a mix of the four CMYK process colors (cyan, magenta, yellow, black). When converting to CMYK, the software picks the closest color that is within the gamut of the CMYK space, hence the color shift.
When you're designing for CMYK, it's best to work in soft-proof mode which allows you to see a pretty close approximation of what your colors will look like in the final color output space - in your case, CMYK.
In Photoshop, to turn on soft-proof, go to View > Proof Setup> Custom... and choose the CMYK output space that matches the press conditions you are designing for.
There are books written about this, but hopefully this short answer points you in the right direction.
Message was edited by: Rick McCleary

Printing with a LED Colour Laser Printer - No CMYK support?

Greetings.
I bought an Oki A3+ printer (C9655) three weeks ago to output a large amount of images for the editing and proofing of a book project. The results I am getting are pretty bad as Lightroom cannot see their profiles so they cannot be loaded (they can be seen & loaded in Photoshop CS3 or InDesign CS3). Their technical support is saying that Adobe Lightroom doesn't appear to support their profiles which are CMYK. Although the results are pretty good via Photoshop or InDesign, I really don't want to have to import 100's of images into another app just to print a decent quality preview hard copy.
What I expected would be straightforward in printing whatever DNGs I select from a collection via the Print module is apparently not possible. Is it really true that Adobe won't support CMYK in Lightroom? And if so why? There are threads requesting CMYK support that go back to Lightroom 2 Beta.
What about printing cards on thick board? What about printing a preview of a book project? It doesn't have to be inkjet RGB all the time. (Admittedly quality really looks "photographic" on inkjet but at too high a cost for previews).
LED Colour laser printers like the one I bought using 4 blocks of toners are becoming more accessible & popular. Surely there will be an increasing amount of users who expect like I do to be able to output directly to the printer without convoluted workarounds.
Adobe, could you please get Lightroom to talk to Colour Laser Printers that work in CMYK and manage the colour? Getting the printer to manage colour really gives poor results. The colours are pretty good but the shadows and blacks seriously lack density making the result just unacceptable. I am frustrated I have not been able to do the outputs I bought the printer for and it appears that the solution lies in Adobe supporting CMYK outputs.
Any help would be greatly appreciated in getting a solution soon.
Thanks.
(Mac 10.6.8)

Thank you for your prompt response Andrew
Please forgive me if I wasn't clear. I don't actually have any CMYK files in my catalogue. Nearly all my files are DNG's that were imported from RAW (if they are edited in Photoshop, it's usually in ProPhoto RGB). What I want to do is output collections directly from Lightroom to paper on the Oki. With hundreds of images to print, I really don't want to use Photoshop. The way I understood it, the printer needed CMYK data to be able to print an image but I think I got it wrong (maybe because Oki only supply CMYK profiles?).
From what you say and from looking at the printer settings options, there must be a way to get Lightroom to send data over to the Oki in a language it fully understands (which I think is by letting the Printer manage colour). I have experimented with different options in the Printer settings, but so far all the results are wrong. I'm now looking at loading profiles in the "Graphic Pro" settings. It looks like they need to be loaded with an installer app and it looks like the only way to be able to use them is by storing them on the printer - which unbelievably means paying over £300 for their hard drive!
Hopefully there is a simpler solution. I'm getting the impression the printer has great capabilities but I'm missing out on them because I can't work out how to get the settings right. What I thought would be pretty straightforward (printing a preselection of images from Lightroom) has turned into weeks of complication and frustration.
If you have any more advice to spare, I would be delighted to read it!
Thanks again.

Converting RGB PDF to CMYK PDF

I'm looking for a way to convert RGB PDF's to CMYK PDF for printing purposes. The RGB PDF is created by an online Flash application and I'm hoping to convert the file using Acrobat via Command line. I have tried a couple of programs e.g. PStill and PDFcreator but these just don't do the job. It's important to use the command line due to the fact that the conversion must be done automatically on a dedicated server.
Important to know is that the PDF consists of texts and images and gradients. This is a RGB example which I would like to convert. This is the CMYK output I have created manually.
Other solutions next to Acrobat are also welcome as long as they do the job

In your original message you say "the conversion must be done automatically on a dedicated server" - this implies that Acrobat is being used outside the EULA, which strictly forbids installation as a server process. Acrobat is licensed for individual interactive desktop use by one person, no other deployments are allowed.
You cannot access Acrobat's editing and batch-processing functions from the commandline at all. Adobe has server-based solutions for PDF generation (LiveCycle ES3) but they are extremely expensive and would need work to get them to do what you're looking for. Realistically, your Flash developer needs to recode his app to output in CMYK or you will need third-party software on the server to re-fry the files. I don't know of any off-the-shelf commandline tools which can perform color conversion on existing PDFs.

Change a PMS color to a specific set of CMYK values in a PDF?

IS this possible? without the use of Pit stop?
Here is my dilemma, I want to take an existing pdf with one spot color and make it basically a registration color of 100% of each CMY and K. I can do this manually through Illustrator but to do this over a thousand times is MUCH to tedious.
Anyone know of any other options to do this?
some more details, I work for a specialty print shop and happen to have a 4c DI press. We are trying to get this one color spot job to image the cmyk outputs all at once BUT having different copy on each head/CMYK plate.
So far we can do it through Acrobat to postscript file to RIP BUT I think, because the original file is a PMS/spot its knocking out.
SO we tried through Illustrator which seems to work its just tedious, where we are trying to save time not add more.
Its a crazy work around but if we could get it to work would be great for this job.
Maybe my questions should be is there a way to force the process colors to over print?
WE tried it on the rip and its not working there either.

1. Place PDF in InDesign
2. Make a new CMYK spot color, defined 100C 100M 100Y 100K
3. In Ink Manager, find spot color of the PDF in the list.
4. In the ink alias for this, pull down and select the spot color you created in step 2
5. Still in the Ink Manager - beside the spot color you created in step 2, click once on the spot icon on the left to change it to process
6. Output a new PDF from InDesign
Once you have the InDesign file set up, all the work is done for any future PDF files you place. InDesign simply takes the spot color in the original PDF (ie Pantone 293 C) and maps it to your 100 CMYK spot. The 100 CMYK spot is in turn forced to process by the ink manager (the ink manager can be accessed in the flyout in the swatches panel)

CMYK to RGB color conversion?

Hi,
I have to convert CMYK color array in the RGB color space and vice versa.
I am using the following code;-
UID colorUID = iDrawing->GetColorUID(kFalse);
UIDRef colourUIDRef(iDrawing->GetDataBase(), colorUID);
InterfacePtr<IColorData> colorData(colourUIDRef, UseDefaultIID());
char
strColor[16]={0};
if(colorData->GetColorSpace() == kPMCsCalRGB)
    ColorArray rgbColor = Utils<IUIColorUtils>()->GetRGBColorValue(m_DB, colorUID);
    sprintf(strColor,
"#%.2x%.2x%.2x", ToInt32(rgbColor[0] * 255), ToInt32(rgbColor[1] * 255), ToInt32(rgbColor[2] * 255));
else
    ErrorCode errStatus = GetRGBColorStr(colourUIDRef, strColor);
ErrorCode GetRGBColorStr(UIDRef colourUIDRef,
char* strColor){
    ErrorCode status = kFailure;
    do
          I
nterfacePtr<IColorData> colorData(colourUIDRef, UseDefaultIID());          IDataBase* m_DB = colourUIDRef.GetDataBase();
// If color sapce is other then RGB then get the colour array
    ColorArray colourArray = colorData->GetColorData();
    // If the colour space is CMYK then convert it to RGB
    if(colorData->GetColorSpace() == ICMSProfile::kSourceTypeBuiltInCMYK)    {
          IDocument* document = Utils<ILayoutUIUtils>()->GetFrontDocument();
          ColorArray rgbColor = Utils<IColorSystemUtils>()->ColorTransform( document, colourArray, ICMSProfile::kSourceTypeBuiltInCMYK,ICMSProfile::kSourceTypeBuiltInRGB);
     sprintf(strColor,
"#%.2x%.2x%.2x", ToInt32(Round(rgbColor[0] * 255)), ToInt32(Round (rgbColor[1] * 255)), ToInt32(Round(rgbColor[2] * 255)));     status = kSuccess;
}while(kFalse);
return status;
}while(kFalse);
return status;

I did some experiments with Illustrator CS6 and the MacBeth RGB test chart and verified my results with Photoshop CS6. I discovered Illustrator is (mostly) doing what it should be doing, within a 1% error (probably rounding) on the output CMYK values. Here's a summary, in case anyone else needs this info:
Assuming the source file's elements are all untagged, when a mixed RGB/CMYK PDF is opened in Illustrator and CMYK mode is
chosen, Illustrator will use the profiles and rendering intent defined in
Color Settings to make the color conversions from RGB to CMYK. Thus, we
have control over the profiles used for this conversion.
If the RGB elements in the PDF file have embedded ICC profiles,
Illustrator will use the embedded ICC profile instead of the RGB profile
defined in Color Settings. This ONLY happens, however, if the PDF file
also includes the correct CMYK output intent profile.
If the PDF doesn't contain a CMYK output intent, Illustrator will fall
back on the Color Settings RGB profile for RGB->CMYK conversion. I believe it
would be more correct for Illustrator to use the embedded RGB profile and
the CMYK profile defined in Color Settings, but that's not how it seems to work.
If the PDF contains the incorrect CMYK output intent, Illustrator will
ignore the Color Settings and respect the embedded RGB and CMYK profiles
for the conversion, as might be expected.

Color Settings CS3 Mac for CMYK Commercial Print

Can somebody advise me as too what I should be setting my color settings to so they will be the same across the suite and when I send my files to commercial print that prints CMYK sheet fed coated.
I've read so much I'm confused. I'm new to CS3 and the Mac ... In the past my work has come back perfect in color and matched to my monitor. Now on CS3 on the Mac I'm not sure what to do.
If anyone can help it would be most appreciated.

Charlene wrote:
> Marco ... I read your post on rGB / CMYK conversion
Which one was that, if you could remind me?
>I work through a print broker that prints CMYK and the only thing he can tell me is that they print CMYK and on sheet fed coated.
Well, yes, print is always CMYK. As for "sheetfed coated", I would assume that they intend a color space like the one described by the U.S. Sheetfed Coated v2 profile (though it could possibly be the GRACoL2006_Coated1v2 profile). You may want to ask them to confirm one or the other, to be safer.
>So my question is di turn everything to CMYK on my monitor and change to sheet fed coated in the settings?
To make sure I understand your question, I think you are asking me whether you should turn your image file(s) to a chosen CMYK output profile. Yes and no. You should do your color and tonal correction work
b in RGB
, and convert to the intended CMYK output profile
b only as a last step
, just before you deliver the files to the print provider or the prepress specialists.
Do
b not
convert your files to the intended CMYK output profile in the beginning and correct them in CMYK. Do not do that. That is not the most desirable way to work.
The default working spaces in Photoshop's Color Settings are important, but not essential. Yes, you should set the default RGB profile to AdobeRGB (if not ProPhoto RGB, though you may wish to hold off on that one until you have more experience with the application), and the CMYK default profile to U.S. Sheetfed Coated v2.
But, as long as your chosen color management policies are to "Preserve Embedded Profiles", and as long as the image files you work on are tagged with the appropriate profile, then the default profile in Color Settings is no longer relevant.

LaserJet Output Changes between Illustrator & Photoshop (CS2)

Win XP on Dell PC, Adobe CS2 + Bridge, Huey Pro 1.5.0 color management, HP Color LaserJet 3800 Postscript Printer, printing a hi-res CMYK TIF.
1. How can I synchronize the color output of a TIF file between Illustrator & Photoshop.
2. And what is causing this variance?
3. Also, Huey Pro is new on my system. Would it be my best option to color proof this image onscreen for the closest representation for final output (by digital printing press)?
When I print this TIF file directly from Photoshop CS2 = darker/richer CMYK output.
When I print a layout in Illustrator CS2 with this exact same TIF linked into the layout = different/lighter CMYK output on the same PS printer.
My system is color managed by Huey Pro & my educated guess would be that Huey is not causing the differences in output. Right?
Is there something in Bridge I should check?
This has been a longterm problem I've been needing to resolve...

What exactly do you want to do with both the apps?
Since the exchange of files from AI to PS is based on PDF, I wouldn't expect problems. The only question is, if Photoshop CS2 will be able to read PDF 1.5, since that's the format AI CS6 embeds in its files. If it doesn't work, you could still save a PDF from AI and make it any other PDF version.
Illustrator can read lower version PSD.
Copy-Paste might be a problem. I can't experiment, since I don't have that PS version any more.

Choosing profiles for forced RGB to CMYK color conversion

When a mixed RGB/CMYK PDF is opened in Illustrator CS6, Illustrator forces a conversion to one color space or the other. See this screenshot: http://imgur.com/sK8iEdn
I assume this is a limitation of Illustrator and there's no way to keep both color spaces. Under that assumption, Is it possible to choose the profiles used for the conversion from RGB to CMYK? Can Illustrator be made to use the RGB and CMYK profiles defined in its Color Settings to make this conversion?

I did some experiments with Illustrator CS6 and the MacBeth RGB test chart and verified my results with Photoshop CS6. I discovered Illustrator is (mostly) doing what it should be doing, within a 1% error (probably rounding) on the output CMYK values. Here's a summary, in case anyone else needs this info:
Assuming the source file's elements are all untagged, when a mixed RGB/CMYK PDF is opened in Illustrator and CMYK mode is
chosen, Illustrator will use the profiles and rendering intent defined in
Color Settings to make the color conversions from RGB to CMYK. Thus, we
have control over the profiles used for this conversion.
If the RGB elements in the PDF file have embedded ICC profiles,
Illustrator will use the embedded ICC profile instead of the RGB profile
defined in Color Settings. This ONLY happens, however, if the PDF file
also includes the correct CMYK output intent profile.
If the PDF doesn't contain a CMYK output intent, Illustrator will fall
back on the Color Settings RGB profile for RGB->CMYK conversion. I believe it
would be more correct for Illustrator to use the embedded RGB profile and
the CMYK profile defined in Color Settings, but that's not how it seems to work.
If the PDF contains the incorrect CMYK output intent, Illustrator will
ignore the Color Settings and respect the embedded RGB and CMYK profiles
for the conversion, as might be expected.

LR6 supports CMYK, kind of

LR6's print module now supports CMYK output profiles, awesome. I'd prefer a TIFF over a JPEG but this is a good start. But CMYK profiles cannot be accessed in the Export module, just RGB. That seems rather odd.

As I understand it, that conversion should really involve a number of extra "prepress" specifics, more involved than just the selection of a profile - GCR, dot gain and such - if it is going to satisfy a particular usage.
That's all built into the ICC profile. Further, LR does export CMYK, just in the Print Module. But not Export. Makes no sense.

JPEG file embedded in PDF (CMYK)

Hello,
As I understand the PDF Specifications it's possible to directly include a JPEG file in a PDF.
It has to be encapsulated into a XObject and its filter must be set to DCTDecode.
(Even the JPEG header and such get stored in the final PDF)
So I wrote a litte program using the Adobe PDFL that create such file, basically it reads the entire JPEG file using a ASStm [ASFileStmRdOpen()] which is called by the [PDEImageCreate()].
I set in the Create() call that the stream is encoded.
Of course it creates alongside this the appropriate PDEColorSpace.
In the end all of this works in RGB I get the intended output.
But when I use CMYK JPEG file, the PDF I get is the negative of the image (as if I applied Adjustements->Invert in Photoshop). Did I miss something for CMYK files ?
Below links to download the test files & the result :
- CMYK (JPG) http://dl.free.fr/h2jecWBpj (PDF) http://dl.free.fr/gv5zecOEp
- RGB (JPG) http://dl.free.fr/nccbrL1mg (PDF) http://dl.free.fr/ho5kqmkD4
Thanks for the help.
Message was edited by: blvd4

I assume your talking about "Table 13 – Optional parameter for the DCTDecode filter" : ColorTransform.
If the encoding algorithm has inserted the Adobe-defined marker code in the encoded data indicating the ColorTransform value, then
the colours shall be transformed, or not, after the DCT decoding has been performed according to the value provided in the encoded data and the value of this dictionary entry shall be ignored.
So again if I understood correctly when Photoshop writes the jpeg file it sets the APP14 marker (described here : http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/TagNames/JPEG.html#Adobe) and isn't this flag sufficient for a PDF reader to make the appropriate conversion for correct CMYK output.
On a sidenote in libjpeg if this marker is present and considering its value and there is 4 components in the input file it sets the colorspace to YCCK. Is YCCK equals to inverted CMYK ?
Or is inverted CMYK flagged elsewhere in a JPEG file ?
I suppose Adobe Reader (the one I use on Linux) is a conforming reader that fully support the PDF specifications and reacts to marker in JPEG file format that in turn get stored in the stream of a XObject, am I wrong ?

Freehand CMYK/RGB export

Hi there.
Looking for some advice on Freehand
I have just started producing picture books and have been
told by the printers they should be outputted as CMYK. Originally I
created all the images in fireworks and can only export as RGB.
This in its self isn’t that much of a problem as the printers
can convert to CMYK during the printing process, but obviously when
the pics are converted the colours tend to differ slightly.
My question is this: If I get freehand, will I be able to
design and export in CMYK so the colours used in the original will
hold true when they go to print?
Thanks
G4briel007

> fireworks and can only export as RGB. This in its self
isn?t that much of a
> problem as the printers can convert to CMYK during the
printing process, but
> obviously when the pics are converted the colours tend
to differ slightly.
> My question is this: If I get freehand, will I be able
to design and export in
> CMYK so the colours used in the original will hold true
when they go to print?
RGB > CMYK conversion will always change colors. Colors
like bright greens, oranges and violets will suffer the most. This
is simply because rgb color space is much wider than cmyk.
So, the colors will change in any program and it is best to
choose the one which has the best control over conversion. I would
not necessarily use FreeHand because the color management is
inadequate although it can be adjusted fairly well. For print KDS
must be used (Preferences > Color).
The problem is that FreeHand cannot import all the effcts and
although some can be reapplied they do not work in CMYK oputput.
The color conversion, however, is quite simple after opning
png file select Name All Colors from the Xtras > Colors menu and
then convert all colors that appear in Swatches palette to CMYK.
But this applies only to outline objets and text. If FreeHand
renders objects with effects they remain rgb.
Maybe saving as psd and making the connversion in Photoshop
is a better choice but this will work only if your original files
are about 300 dpi because resampling will scale only outline
objects and text leaving effect values like intact.
It is maybe better to use FreeHand for cmyk output but then
you cannot use raster effects. Or you can use Fireworks but you
have to set the resolution to 300 dpi to avoid problems, this of
course create large files. Also you cannot preview your art in CMYK
in Fireworks.
So, there are options but make a few test files and send them
to printer before starting to make the actual work. Usually
printers are just pleasd if the technique is tested beforhand
ensuring that problems do not come up just before the deadline.
Jukka

Save As PDF bugs

Hi All,
In the past, I've always printed to PS via the Distiller instance, but now we have new branding with spot colors used in the FM templates, so now Save As PDF is a must.
I am finding what I think to be a bug, because it is consistently reproducible. When I Save As PDF choosing Page Range: All, I can get all of the pages printed with spot colors and working hyperlinks, BUT the leftmost cell of the first row of every single table is empty, even though the FM screen itself displays the row's contents.
Here's the PDF outcome — please note the first body cell of the table is empty:
All tables in the document have the same issue. I tried opening other documents, they all have the same behavior. I tried importing formats from other tables, creating new table formats, etc., and the same issue persists, even when I copy-special the char formatting of a cell that does print and paste it to the non-printing cell.
Here's what the same section looks like in the FM window:
However, when I Save As PDF choosing Page Range: 1 to [last number], the contents of the first cell in the first column of the first body row of the table displays perfectly fine, but of course none of the hyperlinks work. Here's that outcome:
If that cell didn't print in any table of any output, it would likely be some kind of formatting issue, but that's not what's happening. The cell prints anytime that I do NOT Save As PDF for ALL pages (which leaves the less-than-satisfactory options of either no working hyperlinks, or pgf/char/tbl format colors generating RGB while the imported graphics on the ref pages retain a different color output that's nearer the spot color).
It's annoying to have to choose pages 1 through (whatever is last) to get all of the rows of all of the tables to properly display, but I would do that as a work around if the hyperlinks worked. However, having to choose between either getting all the tables' body rows complete, or having all the hyperlinks working, or getting both of those but no spot color (which is what happens when I print to PS, yielding inconsistent color issues) is making me choose between lose, lose, or lose.
Is there a patch or work around for this issue, or am I going to need to either convince Marketing that branding guidelines for color in their tech doc suite doesn't matter, or pay USD$2000 to get a PDF processor that links everything on the backend just to get all the content and colors right, and add the links post-PDF creation...? Perilous choices. (You can choose to lose your eye, lose your ear, or lose your arm, but you cannot keep all three. Choose. 'Tis but a flesh wound. Monty Python must have written the script.) I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound exasperated (or exaggerated, as you wish); I have never had this kind of issue with FrameMaker before, and I did a lot of talking around here to convince them to buy the new TCS5 as the best solution for their PDF and online help deliverable needs.
Maybe I'm idealistic, but it doesn't seem too much to expect a program as mature as FM to create PDF output that supports hyperlinks, retains spot color, and actually displays all the text relatively WYSIWIG to the FM interface... Surely I'm missing something, or this is a bug with a work-around, right...?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Rene

Thanks for chiming in.
We've got Pantone 307 CVC as the spot color on H2 text and table header backgrounds, as well as several character formats (bullets, hyperlinks, etc.).
In FM, Help > About shows version as 12.0.1.331. Is there a newer patch?
The PDFs are multi-use, because some customers use them as print material, while others use the PDF directly in electronic format. (Audience is international: UK, EU, all over the Americas, as well as some in east Asia and Russia. Yes we have more issues to address than this, but that's another topic for another post at another forum.)
Marketing doesn't like how green the Pantone 307 CVC renders in the PDF when we use the PS>PDF option, so that's why we started using CMYK output = Save As PDF. ("Whether it's in the PDF or printed, it's supposed to be consistent with the blue in the logo, not a teal color.")
I wonder if the better solution might be to find an RGB visual equivalent...
Row background colors alternate 3% and 10% every other row. I have the same results whether I use the standard Dark Gray from the FM color catalog, or Pantone 444 CVC. The only font in play is Calibri. Heading row background is Pantone 307 CVC with 10pt Calibri 100% White text for headings. Cellbody text is 9pt Calibri 100% Black text (colors from FM stock color definitions).
I was going to upload a sample FM file, but I don't see a way to do so...?
Rene

Color management, printing with InDesign CS3

RGB output devices (this includes essentially all inkjet printers from every manufacturer, when driven by the manufacturer print driver). Inkjet printers driven by a PostScript RIP are considered CMYK output devices, and thus this post does not apply to them.
When printing to RGB output devices from InDesign using the same ICC profiles and settings as in Photoshop, you still get crummy results, in terms of color, that differ from both IDCS2 and other Adobe applications including Photoshop CS3.
InDesign CS2 previously did all rasterizing and color space conversion in InDesign prior to submitting the print job to the OS. In CS3 this was changed to submit PostScript + colorspace information, which is then supposed to be normalized by the OS. Except that it doesn't work. Mac OS X drops the color space information.
The work around is to check "Print as Bitmap" in the advanced section of the IDCS3 print dialog. This causes IDCS3 to do the conversion and generate a bitmap prior to submitting to the OS, rather than depending on the OS to do color conversion or rasterizing, which is the default behavior with IDCS2. Thus you can use the same ICC profiles and print driver settings as with all other Adobe applications, if you choose this option.
Chris Murphy
co-author Real World Color Management 2e

Chris,
First, I am surprised that there has been no response to your post since there were more than a few complaints about the problem in this forum when IDCS3 first came out. So thank you for the solution to this vexing problem.
But I find some of the language in your post a bit problematic:
>InDesign CS2 previously did all rasterizing and color space conversion in InDesign prior to submitting the print job to the OS.
and
>... rather than depending on the OS to do color conversion or rasterizing, which is the default behavior with IDCS2.
The second quote seems incorrect on two counts:
1. It contradicts the first quoted statement.
2. In my mac IDCS2 (version 4.0.5 build 688) in the options area of the color management pane of the print dialog, the only available choice for the Color Handling pop up is "Let InDesign Determine Colors".
So the default behavior with IDCS2 seems to be "Let InDesign Determine Colors".
I am not at all taking issue with the main point of your post, which I welcome wholeheartedly. I just find the second quoted phrase from you post confusing. Can you please clarify.
Returning to your main point, are there any downsides of using the Print as Bitmap method?
Thanks,
Al

Printing from InDesign and Photoshop - colors don't match

I'm printing the same CMYK image from Photoshop and from InDesign, to a HP desktop color printer. I'm using CS3, all the color settings are identical in both programs, but the printed colors don't match. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
(cross-posted in InDesign forum)

I have had the same problem: an image printed from PS differs from the same image printed from ID. However, I can't very well print as bitmap from ID since the image is part of a spread, including text. I have tried various combinations of settings. I made the PS image to 100% of the ID final size (in the layout). I tried various print dialogue settings (high transparency flattener, medium transparency flattener, color managed, not color managed, CMYK output and leave unchanged ... every combination I could think of). ID does something on printer output. My understanding (at least from CS2) was that ID output to printer uses a PDF format of some sort. I had the idea maybe the ID output did some sort of resampling or re-rendering of the image, but have not prooved that out. I did get some slight improvement in the ID output when the image in the ID layout was put in at 100% (whereas it had been 88% (the original image being bigger than the ID layout size). What I am getting now in CS3 is a clean looking photo in PS, but in ID, skin tones look somewhat blotchy and a bit more saturated. The PS image is better than ID, and while ID is not bad, why is it not as clean as PS? I can definitely see the difference between PS and ID output and know it will show on press, too. Any suggestions?

CMYK output

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