Color Consistency in Numbers?

hello --
i have been noticing and struggeling with color inconsistencies between Numbers & Keynote and was wondering if others have found a solution to this issue. I created a custom color palette in Keynote for the Color Picker. I have set all the colors to use sRGB. When i apply one of those colors as a background color in Numbers however, the color space switches to Generic RGB and the rgb values are not the same as those in Keynote, or as defined in the Color Picker. When i then switch to sRGB the color changes dramatically and doesn't match those in Keynote anymore.
any suggestions as to what is happening here?
thank you in advance for your time.

I never though of clicking on that little box before. I thought it was decoration.
First thing I can say, and I've noticed this before, is that when I use a saved color in a document then I use the magnifying glass to see what color the document actually was given, the two colors are often not exactly the same. I just now tried a cell fill in Numbers with a gray of 191:191:191 and used the same as a fill in Keynote. Both Numbers and Keynote changed it to 191:190:191. The color space for the swatches was Device RGB and the color space of the colors from the magnifying glass was also Device RGB. This same thing is true if I use the magnifying glass on the color swatch in the color chooser
I also tried defining a pure sRGB red 255:0:0 color swatch. The magnifying glass gives it back to me as 243:0:34 in Device RGB.
The magnifying glass for me always returns values in the Device RGB color space. If the color was defined in another space, it appears to be converting the values to Device RGB. I have not been able to make Numbers do something different from Keynote. If there is any difference in the colors from Numbers to Keynote, I haven't been able to see it. I do not have a wide gamut monitor, which you might have.
I don't know if anything above was helpful, it is simply what I have observed.

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We have an encoding and creative workflow that is entirely mac/FC Studio base, but authoring is done on a PC.
We have run into a very peculiar problem involving color shifting...
M2Vs and Still Images (Tiffs) are exported from Motion Projects using Compressor. The last frame of the m2v is identical to the Still Image.
When opened in quicktime the colors appear identical.
When brought into DVD studio pro and Authored, the jump from the M2V to the Still Image is seamless in terms of color.
Now when that M2V and Still Image is brought into our PC authoring Software, there is a noticeable shift in color between the two. The still image is significantly darker than the M2V. (A HUGE PROBLEM)
So the above is based on exporting a still image and an M2v from Motion Projects, what if we simply exported the last frame of the M2V from quicktime or compressor as a still image. SAME EXACT RESULTS.
Next I brought the M2V into After Effects and Exported the last frame as a Tiff. In DVD Studio Pro that Tiff appears significantly BRIGHTER than the M2V, but when brought over to our PC there is NO shift at all!!
For a number of reason our workflow can not accommodate a dependency on After Effects to provide us with color consistent Still Images for our PC Authoring Software.
Is there anyone out there, a guru in the ways of color management perhaps, that can lend some insight into how I can ensure that the Still Images I export from Quicktime/Final Cut Studio will not display a shift in color from the M2Vs on the PC?
Thank you so much,
ryan

Ryan,
Your issue is primarily related to gamma, and also related to color space conversion issues. If you search these very forums, and google, you will find extensive threads discussing this.
Managing gamma in a FCS-based post workflow that involves still images, multiple platforms, and multiple color spaces, requires special attention.
The various applications inside FCS deal with gamma and color spaces in different ways. There are a LOT of intricacies, from Final Cut's bypassing of ColorSync, to default gamma settings for RGB content, to DVDSP's handling of still image color space conversion. You'll need to sit down and spend some time building the knowledge you'll need to navigate the waters.
Start with these links, and go from there:
http://www.poynton.com/notes/colourandgamma/GammaFAQ.html
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93794
http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7384256
http://creativemac.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=23956
The very short version of your problem is related to the fact that Mac uses a default display gamma of 1.8, and just about everything else in the world related to your video pipeline (including your PC) uses 2.2 to 2.5. It's more complex than that, but the links above will get into detail.
On the bright side, your problem is completely solvable once you learn the gamma side of things, and carefully maintain proper gamma from start to finish in the workflow.
-Matt

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Thanks. Sarah

I have looked at is and the only conclusion I can come to is that using the pantone colors is a good idea for print and not a good idea for the web.
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However if your only concern is color consistency and one of the objects is vector you can probably use the Edit>Edit Colors>Adjust Color Balance and Saturation to adjust the color.
I would say a wiser way to do this is to color the art in an rgb environment for the web and not use spot colors swatches that were designed to work in a cmyk for print.
If you turn on Overprint preview you will see what I mean, then though it is matched and you do a save for the web you will see the conversion is not working well for that environment
I would save the paths and use swatches you create yourself because this was not intended to work this way and is probably part of the problem.
Overprint preview will show you what you will get in print but the consistency for the web well I would say there is something wrong .
this shows what you can get with adjusting the colors and you will get this for save for the web by doing so this and if you don't adjust the colors but turn on overprint preview you get this as well
This is what you get without overprint preview turned on and what you would get for save for the web if you do not adjust the colors.
I have no idea why there should be so big a difference except to say they are going about this in the wrong way and it needs to be corrected.
There seems to be no reason for this to be. PMS 464 should be PMS 464 if it is in the same environment.
Now of course if one had it as rgb in photoshop and brought it into Illustrator for a cmyk document then there is going to a conversion which you might not like and if you create a cmyk document with art that was convert from rgb to cmyk in transport and are trying to match objects from the different applications that probably would not work.
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I'm on the verge of giving up any hope of CS3's color management
working consistently. But I'm tenacious, so let's give this one more
go. Exhibit A:
http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=colorsquaresou2.png
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PDF and viewed it in Acrobat (2), placed said PDF in an ID document
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viewed in Acrobat (4).
The squares you see in the image above have been screengrabbed
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"[...] colors created in Photoshop CS3 and Illustrator CS3 match the
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More details:
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All embedded profiles were included. Simulate black ink and overprint off in
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There are a million and one settings so I won't list them all.
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> Setting your monitor profile to sRGB is always a mistake.
Ok, let's accept that for a moment.
> Unlike non-color-managed applications, Photoshop uses your monitor
> profile to convert the data it sends to your monitor. If you have a
> properly, accurately, and often calibrated and profiled monitor,
> then you and others can get an accurate rendition of your file.
I agree with all that.
> Setting two different uncalibrated and non-profiled monitors to
> sRGB does in no way, shape or form mean the image is going to look
> the same on both monitors.
No problem with that either. If you think I meant that before, then
obviously I did not explain myself clearly enough.
> If you don't understand that, you have not even begun to wrap your
> head around color management.
> Since you're more interested in arguing than in learning or solving
> your problem, there's not much that others can do to help you.
That's your assumption, rather confrontationally put, and it's
untrue.
Perhaps what I've written is ambiguous and is being taken the
wrong way. Let me try to put it better.
My basic point (it may well be wrong and I'd love to know why
if it is) is this:
If Illustrator and Photoshop are using the same color management
techniques, then they should open the same jpeg file, say, and
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would perform a gamut mapping from the *same* working space
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mapping, the operating system would receive from each program
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According to this hypothesis, which may or may not be correct,
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both opticians are given the same wrong prescription. And
let's suppose the glasses are made precisely according to
that prescription. In this analogy the prescription is a
bit like (not too much though) an inaccurate monitor profile.
Now, if I look at something with one pair, it is blurred or
distorted. If I look at that same thing with the other pair,
it is also blurred and distorted, but in the same way. The
scene looks identical. Of course, that's not what I want
to see, a blurred scene, but at least I know the opticians
did the same thing, functionally speaking. At least I know
there is some consistency in the way these opticians work.
So, at the risk of unnecessary repetition: I'm not interested
in the absolute accuracy of colors at this point. I'm merely
trying to get an understanding of why one Adobe color-managed
program is producing different on-screen results to another:
same input + same color mapping functions =/= same output?
By the way, I have discovered something that is different
about Illustrator. Monitor profile changes apparently have
no effect until Illustrator is restarted. In Photoshop the
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We use Macintosh G5 computers with CS3.
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thanks!

Sunshine,
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Before you buy something by GMB you should deliberately
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I'm doing product shots for my wife's eBay sideline.
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I'm usually shooting against a full white background (or full black)
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Gray cards (unless designed specifically to be so) are exposure guides, not color temperature guides. A white balance target would do you a better job.
The gray card is from Scott Kelby's Lightroom book, and he specifically mentions using it for color correction (actually, the technique for copy/pasting the WB settings gathered from the card is from his book, too).
Also, in the Lightroom manual, it says "Move the White Balance Selector into an area of the photo that should be a neutral light gray. Avoid spectral highlights or areas that are 100% white."
It is the color of the background that varies that gives it away in a grid of images.
When I get home, I'll try to attach some sample images. But in general, the backgrounds are pretty consistently solid white - it's the coloring on the product that's different. Depending on my time and how expensive the item is, I'll use Photoshop to ensure the background is 100% white.
Without a constant light source (window light changes over the course of time) you really can't depend upon copying and pasting the settings.
Yeah, I know. I'm trying to convince my wife to use her eBay profits to buy me a properly lit mini-studio, but until then, I'm stuck with what I have (referring to the situation, not my wife!). But also, the shots are usually within a few seconds of each other - it's not like the light is changing that much, at least not enough to account for the differences.
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What are you doing to the images in Color?
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x

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This mean branding
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http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg430141(v=office.14).aspx
Next you have to customize your corev4.css file - and create your own css file - apply it in your master page
http://erikswenson.blogspot.com/2010/01/sharepoint-2010-css-references-in.html
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Romeo Donca, Orange Romania (MCSE, MCITP, CCNA) Please Mark As Answer if my post solves your problem or Vote As Helpful if the post has been helpful for you.

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