Color Management - Different Lab-Values in Eye-One and PS4

After having calibrated my screen "Eizo" and my printer Epson 3800 for - in this case paper Tecco PL285 carefully, I reached almost exact the same Lab-values, as I checked the monitor profile, printer profile and messured the printed output with Eye-one - (Monitor-Profile, Print Profile PL285, Result Photoprint) see table below. Colorprofil ICC was Adobe1998 in all cases. My monitor is calibrated with Kelvin 5500, Gamma 2.2 and brightness 120.
BUT my question is - as I messured the colors direct in PS4 with the pipette (Photoshop messure), the Lab values were very much different. Can anybody explain me the different or tell me where to adjust ? - A pure "human-eye-control" with my eyes saw the colors as almost being alike, but trying to be perfect - I will be happy to learn about/solve this.
Best regards
JanBoss
TestChart
1-1
1-2
1-3
1-4
1-6
2-1
2-3
3-6
4-1
4-4
L
a
b
L
a
b
L
a
b
L
a
b
L
a
b
L
a
b
L
a
b
L
a
b
L
a
b
L
a
b
Photoshop messure
92
-1
7
80
0
5
66
0
3
48
-2
6
10
-1
4
21
14
-49
42
61
42
74
20
64
35
24
23
39
-16
25
Monitor-Profile
87,5
0,7
-5,0
77,0
0,8
-4,9
63,2
0,7
-4,9
46,5
-0,6
-1,4
13,2
-0,3
-2,2
21,2
12,5
-53,0
40,2
58,4
32,6
71,2
19,5
55,3
33,7
22,0
16,2
37,7
-14,0
18,6
Print Profile PL285
87,6
0,7
-5,2
76,9
0,8
-5,1
62,9
0,7
-5,1
46,2
-0,7
-1,6
12,9
-0,5
-3,2
20,8
11,0
-53,8
39,9
58,8
32,0
71,3
19,4
56,8
33,1
21,9
16,5
37,2
-13,9
18,4
Result PhotoPrint
87,5
0,7
-5,0
77,0
0,8
-4,9
63,2
0,7
-4,9
46,5
-0,6
-1,4
13,3
-0,4
-2,1
21,2
12,5
-52,9
40,2
58,4
32,6
71,2
19,5
55,3
33,7
21,9
16,2
37,7
-14,0
18,6
Monitor/PhotoPrint
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
-0,1
0,1
-0,1
0,0
0,0
-0,1
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,1
0,0
0,0
0,0
0,0
Print Profile/ PhotoPrint
0,1
0,0
-0,2
-0,1
0,0
-0,2
-0,3
0,0
-0,2
-0,3
-0,1
-0,2
-0,4
-0,1
-1,1
-0,4
-1,5
-0,9
-0,3
0,4
-0,6
0,1
-0,1
1,5
-0,6
0,0
0,3
-0,5
0,1
-0,2
Photoshop/PhotoPrint
4,5
-1,7
12,0
3,0
-0,8
9,9
2,8
-0,7
7,9
1,5
-1,4
7,4
-3,3
-0,6
6,1
-0,2
1,5
3,9
1,8
2,6
9,4
2,8
0,5
8,7
1,3
2,1
6,8
1,3
-2,0
6,4

Hello,
Set the rendering intent to absolute colorimetric in Photoshop's color settings. Otherwise, everything is stretched from L 0 to L 100.
Regards,
Yann

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quote:
Can you tell where are you changing the icc color profiles in
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quote:
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I'm pretty familiar with color management generally, and I have read the tutorials in the Missing Manual and at computer-darkroom.com. I will describe my recent experiments.
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"So it seems that Organizer and Editor do color management differently when
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My Epson 870 finally died. But, while it was working I did manage to get it
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Album.
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Hi folks,
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Perhaps Im getting confused because Im trying to compare what LightRoom does with what RawShooter does.
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Lightroom color management.
a.) Monitor profile used: The profile set as the default in your operating system (e.g. Windows xp). (your monitor profile software usually does this when you calibrate/profile your monitor).
b.) Working space: ProPhotoRGB
c.) Export color space: You can choose one of the following sRGB; Adobe RGB or Pro Photo RGB.
There is no option (afaik) to change a.) or b.) the option you choose in c.) will affect how the exported image will be displayed in color managed applications or non-color managed applications.
Non-color managed applications are not able to display Adobe RGB or Pro Photo RGB correctly. I guess if you wish a consistent display of your images in color managed and non-color managed applications then the only common factor is sRGB and you should export your images in sRGB color space.
The benefits of the other expanded color spaces are in printing and you also would have to get this end of your color management correct. Printing profiles to match your printer and each paper being used etc.
Until you can get this all sorted out you will get better results from sRGB, this is also applicable when using most commercial printing services.

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That advice doesn't help with this issue. I don't need to use a color checker to verify that the colors are different. It's very obvious. I'm having the same issue this guy was having that was never addressed:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1250202
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You can test this by taking a websafe hex code, lets use 0066cc, fill a small square with it in Photoshop, saving it as a Jpeg with an sRGB profile embedded, then discard the profile by going to:
PS/Edit/Assign Profile/Don't Color Manage This Document
Save a second Jpeg copy of that same color square without the profile.
Make three pages in Muse, one page with 0066cc entered as the BG fill in Muse; one with with the backgoung set to a tiled BG image in Muse using the the 0066cc square Jpeg with the embedded sRGB profile as the bg image; then the third page should be configured like the last with the 0066cc square Jpeg that's untagged without the profile, set it as the tiled bg image.
When you compare the 3 pages in a browser to the 3 page displays in Muse you'll notice that the only page that matches the Muse color is page 2 with the tiled bg image set to the 0066cc filled square Jpeg that has the sRGB profile embedded.
The reason why is that the browser is reading the embedded sRGB profile from the tiled BG image Jpeg and so it's color managing the browser fill, since it's a Jpeg not a hex code, Muse matches that one and on all three pages displayed in Muse, because it's color managing everything no matter what, regardless if there's a profle associated with that color or not.
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I have two workflows for Photoshop that produce the exact same results and I want to know which one to use, but most importantly why?
WORKFLOW 1: NO COLOR MANAGEMENT
1. Photoshop Color Settings is set to "Monitor Color" which tells the PSD to not use color management.
2. I check with Proof Colors (View > Proof Colors), having Monitor RGB selected (View > Proof Setup > Monitor RGB), and of course nothing changes.
3. I Save for Web and nothing changes (If I select "convert to sRGB" in the Save for Web dialog the colors wash out so I NEVER check this).
4. Export the image.
WORKFLOW 2: sRGB
1. Photoshop Color Settings is set to "North America General Purpose 2" which tells the PSD to use sRGB.
2. I check with Proof Colors (View > Proof Colors), having Monitor RGB selected (View > Proof Setup > Monitor RGB), and the colors change a good bit.
3. I Save for Web and it matches what Proof Colors shows me (If I select "convert to sRGB" in the Save for Web dialog nothing changes).
4. Export the image.
Both of these yeild the exact same image. The technical difference is that the second image has sRGB embedded? From a workflow difference I perfer the first one since I never have to check if Proof Colors is selected, the image looks the same no mater what. In the second workflow I have to always check if Proof Colors is selected otherwise what I see in photoshop doesn't look the same as the exported image.
PLEASE help me to understand, that while both of these workflows yeild the exact same image, why the second one is better because I feel like the first one is not.
P.S. Majority of the work I do is for the screen (web or application UI) so I'm not to worried about print work but wouldn't mind any pointers in relation to this situation.

It's about 1:30 AM in my part of the world I need to get some rest, so I'll have to be brief.
I've never seen so many misconceptions crammed into a single post as you've managed to get in your last one.
I'll try to get at least the most glaring ones.
eddit wrote:
1. I do understand that of the millions on monitors there are none that match, and the exact reds, greens, and blues that I see on my screen differ from other screens (i have a number of computers in my home and am very aware of this).
Good, but that's not the point.
eddit wrote:
I also know that there is a huge gamma shift from PC to Mac as I use to be a PC users and am now on a Mac.
Only if the Mac user is still living in the stone age. Macs should be calibrated to gamma 2.2, just like a PeeCee. The old gamma 1.8 standard is a relic left over from the day of Apple monochrome monitors and LaserWriter b&w printers. Even Apple recommends 2.2.
eddit wrote:
why would I work with a psd that is color managed, if it will all just get dumped by the browser anyways?
Because presumably you want to have a clue as to what your image looks like and what it might look like to others.
This is totally independent from whether you embed a profile or not. Different issue.
eddit wrote:
2. I'm not talking about EMBEDDING profiles into any of the images that I Save For Web.
Neither am I.
eddit wrote:
3. I am far more interested in color consistency rather than color accuracy as G Ballard points out in his tutorials.
The only way to achieve consistency is through a color managed workflow. That's what Color Management is all about, consistency.
eddit wrote:
From what G Ballard says, in a web browser, Macs apply the monitor profile and Windows applies sRGB.
Good grief! That is so wrong or badly phrased that I feel bad even quoting it! That statement is garbage/rubbish.
Only the bloody Slowfari (Apple's Safari) throws monitor profile at untagged files, i.e. files with no embedded color profile. No other browser does that. Period. If the file is tagged, Safari will honor the embedded profile.
Firefox 3.9 (both Mac and Windows) correctly assumes sRGB for untagged files (files without an embedded color profile) with color management enabled in the guts of Firefox and/or even with color management disabled.
All other browsers on this planet, Mac and Windoze, are not color managed and assume sRGB for all files, with or without an embedded profile.
The reason the files look very similar to you is that you are dealing with the lowest common denominator (sRGB, where the s stands for sh¡t, as we know now), and probably your color monitor is pretty close to that common denominator.
If you happened to have an expensive truly wide-gamut monitor, your untagged files created in your monitor profile as working space would look like cr@p to you.
Get this through your head: you cannot turn off color mangement in Photoshop, no matter what you do, the application won't let you. You're just messing up with color management the way you work, you are not "turning it off" as you seem to think.

Same colors appearing different in the same document

I have a document where I have filled different table cells with the same RGB color. However, they sometimes appear as two different shades, one darker than the other. I checked to be sure it was the same RGB color and it was, but it appears quite different both in InDesign and when I export it to pdf. Any idea why the same color is appearing differently in the same document?

It doesn't appear to be a monitor problem, as the colors are different both on my laptop screen and on my external monitor. As I do not have the ability to print a hard copy before the file gets sent to the printer to make a proof, I need to know which is the "right" color (or at least the once closest to how it will print). Even if the colors are showing up differently on screen, if the swatch for both is exactly the same, will it show up as the same color once the actual hard copy is printed?

RGB Color management between Illustrator and Photoshop

Hi,
I have a color management issue when exporting JPGs from Illustrator and opening them in Photoshop:
In Illustrator (file is in RGB mode), I have a logo which has the color RGB 0/0/153 and I export a JPG. When I open the file in Photoshop, the color is RGB 1/0154.
I have activated Adobe CC Color Manegement via Adobe Bridge (option "Europe, Universal 3"), which should produce consistent results in all Adobe applications.
So which is the color that is actually in the file? And what do I have to do to get the color I want (0/0/153) actually exported from Illustrator? I need this color to comply with corporate design specifications of my client.
Since I have to produce a lot of files it is not possible to readjust all colors in Photoshop ...
Thank you!
Michael

First, check to make sure that the RGB working colorspace is the same for both Illustrator and Photoshop.
When exporting the jpeg from Illustrator make sure the 'embed' color profile is selected, and it is the color profile that is required for your client. If this is for web use, then sRGB is your best choice.
When you open the exported image in Photoshop, make sure that the color settings for Photoshop are set to 'Preserve Embedded Profiles'. After you open the image in Photoshop, you can double check by going to Edit > Convert to Profile... The source profile should match the embedded exported profile from Illustrator. If these match, your RGB color values from Illustrator and Photoshop should also match.
If the source profile does not match, cancel out of the 'Convert to Profile" and go to 'Assign Profile". Assign the profile that you embedded when exporting from Illustrator. Now Photoshop should have the same values as Illustrator.

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