Color Profiles and Printing

Hi all, First timer here so please be gentle!
I have recently purchased LR3 (I know!) and having trouble printing from there.
I have a Spyder Express calibarted monitor and as instructed both in LR Help and elsewhere on the net, I select the color profile of my printer and paper (Canon MP990 with Plus Glossy II) from within LR and ensure color management is set to "None" within the printer driver. When doing this (with both Relative and Perceptual Rendering) I experience slight out of shift colors when printing. I understand I might expect this as the printer can never match what I see on screen 100% but here's the rub....When turning off the screen calibration profile using the Spyder utility on the toolbar, the colors displayed are near exact what I'm seeing on my prints. Also, I have been experimenting with many different options and when I select "Managed by printer" within LR, and then "Driver" Color Management within the printer driver I once again get near perfect match to what I see on screen using the claibrated monitor profile!??
I know this means I can just do one of the above to get prints matching what I see on screen but I also like to publish pics on the net and send some away for printing so how can I be sure which (if any) of my "workarounds" are valid or if there is some underlying problem somewhere which means that when following the instructions of LR, Canon, Windows and many internet guides, my prints do not match my calibrated monitor profile? And why is it that selecting "Pinter Managed" with "Driver" OR truning of my screen calibration and using the stated instructions result in better color rendition?
Apologies if this is not LR specific (guess could be a problem with Win, Canon or Monitor profile rather than LR) but my Google search led me here and there appears to be a wealth of expertise available here on such matters!

i once had to print on a epson P50 printer from my sister because my own printer was send in for service.
i have a full color managed system from monitor, scanner to printer.
but i have never managed to get good results with the P50 when i selected that photoshop should do the color handling.
the prints with the printer driver doing the color handling looked much better then the photoshop managed prints.
there are some ICC profiles for epson paper coming with the P50 and of course i used them (i was printing on epson premium semigloss) ..... but it did not help a bit.
and yes i know about disabling color management in the printer driver when PS does the color handling.
trust me.. there was no double color handling.
after some testprints i found out that i have to set the color handling to "printer driver" and change the color adjustment to "Adobe RGB" and "Gamma 1.8" in the printer driver.
that way the P50 produced good looking prints. not 100% perfect but much closer to my calibrated monitor display (i use a dtp94 for profiling).
that will not help you with your canon printer.. thought.. but i just want to tell you...your are not alone.
that said my Epson R2880 prints PERFECT when photoshop does the CM and i would never let the printer driver do the color handling on this printer.
i guess some printers are just not working well when photoshop (or lightroom) does the color handling.
especially cheap consumer models.
a friend had an epson R200 and complained about the same issues i had with the P50.
he always had to fiddled around in PS to adjust the images for printing and i don´t mean subtle changes.
i gave him my settings and his prints looked better, immediately with no need for PS adjustments.
i know that is against everything you might have read in books or heard in tutorial videos about printing. i wondered too and that was why i have done a few dozend testprints with the P50, trying all the different settings.
they always say that you have to let photoshop do the color handling... (and i can say it´s true for the R2880 or R3880)... but my experience with cheap epson models (R200, P50) tell another story.

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How do I get an SVG file to the same color profile as my illustrator file (U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 and what would be the correct color profile for printing on a shirt?

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Thank you.

dadanas wrote:
Hi Simcah, I have a similar problem. Have you found out any solution?
thanks, dan
You need to ask the printing service provider. Dealing with color totally depends on the printing process involved and of course the machines used.

Color profile for print

Do I need color profile for print taged in the file?
I need to print some photos at LAB (photo lab) and they print in color space sRGB.
I have created through Adobe Raw a JPEG file, which has untagged color profile.
Is it necessary to have a color profile for a print at photo lab tagged in the file or better not?
Thank you for explanation.

Since you say the printer "prints in color profile sRGB", it sounds as though you should save your images tagged with the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color profile.
If I'm understanding you correctly "Lab" does not mean "print lab", it's an acronym that describes an alternate color space for representing an image, fundamentally different from RGB. Print houses normally don't expect an image to be sent to them in Lab mode.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lab_color_space
In all seriousness, you should ask these questions of their customer service:
1. What format should I provide the image in (JPEG, TIFF, etc.)?
2. Should I tag the image with the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color profile?
-Noel

One again about color profiles and lightroom

I have wide gamut monitor (nec pa271w) and I tried to calibrate it. After calibration it created new color profile and make it default in windows color managment. But now all pictures in Lightroom are not so colourful as they were before. If I choose srgb(default profile for windows) the colors become as they were before calibration but in this case I see srgb color space and not full color that my monitor can produce. I read articles about calibration but didn't find how to solve the problem with lightroom.

You wrote
function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}
function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}But now all pictures in Lightroom are not so colourful as they were before.
This is probably the effect of your now calibrated monitor vs. the uncalibrated one.
Often uncalibrated monitors show highly over-saturated colors. It looks very rich and flashy and people are wowed.
But these over-saturated colors cannot be printed and do not reflect the true state of the image data.
When your monitor is calibrated properly it will display the colors as they should be.
When you chose sRGB all the colors - particularly the reds and greens - will appear more saturated. That is the effect of this color space that is much smaller than Adobe RGB or Pro Photo RGB.
LR will automatically find and select your calibrated color profile if it is saved in the right place / folder.
And you can't change that. There is no provision for a different color space in LR.
WW
PS: As Pete and other posters have said already: Set the white point of your monitor to 6500 - that is the accepted standard. Don't choose sRGB to make your photos look good. Rather work with a calibrated monitor and then edit your photos in LR to your liking. You seem to think that your photos are a given and you have to adjust your monitor to make them look good - that's not how it's done.
WW

I am trying to print a color photo on my MacBook Pro from iPhoto (not using Photoshop) using Epson 2200 printer, and everything I do in the Color Matching and Print Settings results in a photo with a pink cast to it. What am I doing wrong?

I am trying to print a color photo on my MacBook Pro from iPhoto (not using Photoshop) using Epson 2200 printer, and everything I do in the Color Matching and Print Settings results in a photo with a pink cast to it. What am I doing wrong?

Have you checked the ink cartridges and made sure the nozzles are clear? Are you able to print from outside of iPhoto with the correct color?
Try the following: make temporary copy of the library and do the following:
1 - delete the iPhoto preference file, com.apple.iPhoto.plist, that resides in your
User/Home()/Library/ Preferences folder.
2 - delete iPhoto's cache file, Cache.db, that is located in your
User/Home()/Library/Caches/com.apple.iPhoto folder.
3 - launch iPhoto and try again.
NOTE: If you're moved your library from its default location in your Home/Pictures folder you will have to point iPhoto to its new location when you next open iPhoto by holding down the Option key when launching iPhoto. You'll also have to reset the iPhoto's various preferences.
OT

Using Color profiles and exporting for web browsers

I've been trying to figure out the answer to this question. As I'm sure you're aware Safari supports color profiles while other web browsers like Firefox do not. I would like to setup Aperture so that it displays and exports images for the widest audience possible. Unfortunately it embeds a color profile and my images on the web only display correctly in Safari. I've tried changing the proofing profiles and export settings to no avail. I didn't seem to have this problem in iPhoto, a picture there looked the same on screen as it did in Safari and Firefox but I can't achieve the same with Aperture...

Thanks for that information, unfortunately I'm not really any closer to solving the issue since I've already tried that. 1) by default, doesn't Aperture automatically embed the sRGB color profile? 2) if I set view>proofing mode to sRGB shouldn't what I see on screen match what a "dumb" application such as Firefox does when it ignores the embedded profile and display sRGB? I've tried going into the preferences>export settings and changed everything to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 but I see no difference in the final image between that and the default setting.
I guess my question is more specific to Aperture since I don't have this problem with other applications. For example, in photoshop if I do Export for Web it strips out any embedded profile and when I open that image in Firefox and Safari side-by-side they are exactly the same. But not so when I export an image from Aperture, when opened in Firefox it is desaturated and flat and of course in Safari it honors the embedded profile and looks fine.

My screen went high-contrast. color profiles and calibration didn't help. It looks fine before I log in though!

My screen went high-contrast. color profiles and calibration didn't work well -
HOWEVER-
It looks fine right before I log in!
Is there a way to repair the color profiles or whatev?
I Installed Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements a couple weeks ago that's when I think it began

I found it! "Enhanced Contrast" was set in the "Universal Access" control panel
Thanks, whoever posted that!

Can I share color profiles and distiller settings with all user accounts on my imac?

Everyone in our studio is on OSX 10.8.3 with adobe cs6 (not creativecliud version).
I have installed color settings and distiller settings on to the macs under the employees user profile.
All the machines also have a general user profile which anyone can use (setup mainly for use by freelancers).
Is there a space on the macs where i can install the color profiles and distiller settings so that all user accounts have them set up?
At the moment i am having to go into each user account on each machine and do it manually.
Also once i have installed distiller settings in one user account I can't install them on subsequent users.
I have tried placing the files in the
library/applicationsupport/adobe/color/
library/applicationsupport/adobe/adobepdf/settings
and
user/library/applicationsupport/adobe/color/
user/library/applicationsupport/adobe/adobepdf/settings
any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,Russell

In that case, assuming your wife's XP User Account can access the D: drive as well, you don't have to bother with the To share your music with other accounts on the computer section of that article. That's already taken care of.
Just log into her account and head directly to the To listen to another account's music files section and follow those instructions.
If I had to emphasize one step to keep from stuffing it up, it would be:
4. Deselect the "Copy files to iTunes Music folder when adding to library file" option.
("Deselect" being a fancy way of saying "uncheck")

Color settings and printing

I have created a custom monitor profile and use this to optimise the results from my printer. If I am sending my photos else where to print or emailing them, should I use this profile or the default sRGB profile or is the AdobeRBG even better.
Thanks

Your custom monitor profile is only used for display purposes not printing.
Monitor Profiles and Printer Profiles are independent of each other.
When printing you need to use a Printer Profile that matches the printer and paper. If you are sending your images out then you should check with the print shop. Typically they will expect images in sRGB.
Colin

Color profile and 16 bit printing

I read a post that said sRBG was the best color profile for ibook. It is also the smallest gamut compared to Adobe 1998 or ProRGB. Is it really "the best" one to use? Also, can iBook printing support 16 bit files? If the answers are yes to sRGB and no to 16 bit, does anyone have a suggestion for someplace else to have only one book printed? Thank you.

I read a post that said sRBG was the best color profile for ibook. It is also the smallest gamut compared to Adobe 1998 or ProRGB. Is it really "the best" one to use?
Yes - that is the reason that it is recommended - user experience with Adobe RGB for example has been unsatisfactory
And note that iPhoto is a consumer product and the books are designed for consumers - I find them outstanding as do most users. Only you can choose what pleases you.
for more info on preparing your photo see - http://www.apple.com/support/photoservices/preparation_tips/
Generally you will find that doing less editing and doing it in iPhoto will produce the best (yes - best does mean best once again) results
Also, can iBook printing support 16 bit files?
No idea
If the answers are yes to sRGB and no to 16 bit, does anyone have a suggestion for someplace else to have only one book printed? Thank you.
Google is a wonderful resource for things like this
LN

How to get paper color profiles when printing from Acrobat

Hello,
I've been in trouble trying to print with specific paper profiles from Acrobat.
I'm running on mac os 10.8.5, and the latest version of the suite (Acrobat XI).
My printer is an Epson 3880.
I can print ok using my paper profiles when I'm printing from Photoshop; the paper profils show up in the printer box,
and I can choose from my different paper profiles, some of which I've installed recently, non-Epson papers.
But those paper profiles don't show up in the menu when I print from Acrobat…
Any hints why I can't reach those?
Thanks in advance for any help,
Keth.

Are you talking about the color profiles? If so then:
1. Go to File>Print
2. Click the Advanced button
3. Select Color Management from the window pane
4. Select the Color Profile from the Color Profile pop-up menu

Issue with Color Management and Print Module

The is a repost per request from a comment on Julieanne Kost's blog...
Having sticky output settings can be useful but now that LR has a color managed workflow, it introduces some problems. For example, if a Proof Copy is created and edited to a particular profile, then that copy is taken into the Print Module, if the output profile that has “stuck” from the previous job does not match you have a problem. It would be nice if the behavior for proof copies would be to automatically match the editing profile or at least warn of a mismatch. And while it is nice to be able to create a Saved Print with all the output parameters, it would be helpful to be able to create saved sets of “Print Job” settings assuming that they will be consistent for a particular printer/ink/paper combination (and whatever “Print Adjustment” you have found to your liking) then easily applied to any image being prepared for output. Perhaps a “save setting” selection under the “Print to:” menu.

So what you propose is the templates are proof copy sensitive and if they are setup for profile A but the proof copy describes profile B, then everything but the template defined profile is honored? I could get behind that idea (but what if one selects multiple VC’s with differing profiles and goes into Print?).
That's pretty much it. It does get complicated quickly as you look at multiple VCs or (and I think we need to start making the distinction between proof copies and ordinary virtual copies) if you bring a mixture of PCs and VCs into the print module. I would suggest that the default behavior be to set output profile of the PC as defined in the PC and retain the "sticky" behavior for ordinary VCs.
I also think that having the ability to save a "Print Copy" may change what we need out of the templates and perhaps their overall function should be re-evaluated.
The VC name should show you the profile used for soft proofing if you have the overlay on. That helps too. My concern are those who work with these VC’s and the text overlay is off.
I'm not getting that behavior. The only place the copy name shows up in the print module is in the filmstrip header. Maybe I have a preference set wrong somewhere... Still, I'd rather the software take care of making the match rather than having to double check to make sure I haven't inadvertently changed the profile somehow (i.e. clicking on a template just to see how it would look on another size paper).

Converting to CMYK color profile (for print) in raw format

I am looking to self publish a cookbook in lightningsource. They need the photos in cmyk format. When is it best to convert to this color profile from rgb?
I have bridge CS5
What I'm doing currently:
I click on my .arw image file and select "open in camera raw" which brings me to an editing screen. At the very bottom is says rgb, and 240 ppi
I need 300 ppi at least and cmyk color.
Now I know how to change these things in Photoshop, but I was taught that editing it in camera raw in bridge is better to preserve quality for print.
Should I just edit it in raw and then convert to 300 dpi and cmyk color in photoshop? Or is there a way to do this in bridge? Whats the difference? Any advice will help, trying to make my pictures look amazing in print

Correct me if I misunderstood anything!
You are on the right track except for the ppi story. The ppi settings just are a figure expressing the amount of pixels stored in 1 inch, without the width and height figures of the image itself you can't do much with it and just changing this figure is not changing the total amount of available pixels.
For instance create a new document at 300 ppi and use the international paper size A4 (21 x 29,7 cm). The amount of pixels is 2480 x 3508 (roughly the result of an 8 MP dSLR.
Use the image size option in PS and be sure to not resample (meaning creating new pixels or deleting pixels to alter the original file size that is 24,9 MB). Now change the amount of pixels to whatever you like. If you increase the number the width and height decrease, and vice versa. Yet the amount of pixels and file size stay at 2480 x 3508 and 24,9 MB.
But with the specs of wanted width and height for the end result of 300 ppi starts making sense.
For instance you have a image at the size of a post stamp and an image at international paper size (A4) and both are 300 ppi. The small post stamp size would be in cm about 2 x 3,5 while the A4 size has about 21 x 30 cm width and height.
So you can imagine having both needed to be printed at the A4 size in 300 dpi (printers work with dots, hence they use dpi - dots per inch- and while not the same they both often use the 300 figure and stand for pretty high quality result) the A4 sized original will meet the wanted standards without problems while the post stamp would have to be resampled to the new A4 size and when having still 300 ppi needed there would be a lot of interpolation (creating new pixels to match the new size) and this would often result in pixelated or worse quality print result, because PS has to use guess (albeit quit educated guessing) work to add more pixels that are needed to reach the new dimensions.
ACR has the advantage to set the ppi by default at 300 but as said, as long as you don't alter width and height of the original it is just a figure without any significant importance until you know the complete specs for the output source.

Color Profile and ACR 4.6 (Vista)

Hi,
My monitor is calibrated with Spyder3. I have set up my Photoshop CS3 so that the color management policies are disabled and the proof conditions are set up to the .icc profile produces by the calibrator. With these settings the files that I save in Photoshop look similar in Photoshop, Microsoft Office Picture Manager, IE and on paper.
But if I decide to open a RAW file, then it is opened in ACR and looks very different: all colors are over-saturated and totally unnatural. Nevertheless, clicking on "Save Image" without changing anything produces a jpeg, which, if opened in Photoshop, looks fine.
I played with this jpeg in Photoshop and was able to reproduce those unnatural colors of ACR in the following way:
- Go to Save For Web&Devices
- Open the Preview Menu
- Chose Windows Color
Normally I have Uncompensated Color chosen there and then it looks normal.
Here are the examples. First, how the file looks in ACR ad then in PS:
Does anybody know why this might happen?
Thank you very much,
Vera

vemina39 wrote:
Thank you Ramon,
Could you please elaborate? I have looked through the page you gave me a link to. I did not see much new there.
The problem I have is with proofing. If I switch to sRGB I have consistent colors through all my applications but they look very washed out and way too cold. If I then make my picture look "natural" (whatever that means) on my screen, it looks too saturated and too warm on most of other screens I tried. (And on paper too.)
Proofing under my .icc does not give that problem, but it has the other: ACR and Photoshop proof differently. So I cannot use ACR for conversion and have to use the Canon's software, which (I suppose) uses the monitor profile for proofing.
Are you OYing about the fact that I do not convert the profile of my pictures before sending them to the printer?
Vera
Vera,
If G. Ballard's excellent, clearly written pages did not help you, you can bet I won't be able to either.
No, I was saying OY! about your entire post!
Good grief! you're turning off Color Management in Photoshop (or you think you are, but you're not "turning it off", you're just messing it up) and you're massively misusing your monitor profile.
Honestly I don't have the time, strength or inclination to explain it to you step-by-step.
CAUTION: NEVER, ever set your working space to be your monitor profile!
In very broad strokes:
Calibrate and profile your monitor, use the resulting profile ONLY in your OS and nowhere else, not anywhere in Photoshop. Set your working profile to a device-independent profile such as ProPhoto RGB, Adobe RGB or sRGB, embed the same device-independent profile such as ProPhoto RGB, Adobe RGB or sRGB, in your file (that is called "tagging your file"), work with your file and save it.
• Then, for the web, Convert a copy the file to sRGB if it's not already tagged as sRGB, then soft proof (Proof) the file with the sRGB profile to see how other people who happen to have a calibrated monitor (less than 2% of all web viewers) will see it in a color managed application.
For heaven's sake DO NOT soft-proof with your gosh-darned monitor profile!!! You're just fooling yourself that way. No one else in the entire world will see the image the same way except by sheer serendipity.
—What kind of printer are you using? Are you talking about your own inkjet printer or a commercial printing press?
• If your own printer, then your file should be created in an Adobe RGB working color space (you can move up to an even wider space once you know what you are doing), tag your file with the embedded Adobe RGB profile, and then use your TARGET (paper) profile to soft-proof your image. The Target Profile, also called paper profile, MUST be specific to a particular combination of paper/ink/printer.
• If a commercial press, ask them to provide their own profiles for their print presses or devices so you can use it for soft proofing.
In both of these last two cases, use the paper target profile for soft proofing. NEVER your gosh-darned monitor profile!
Again: If G. Ballard's excellent, clearly written pages did not help you, you can bet I won't be able to either. I'm done here.

CS5 Color Calibration and Printing Problems vs. CS3

We are migrating from CS3 to CS5, and i'm working on getting the printing right.
We are on MacPro towers, 10.6.6, with LaCie LCD Monitors and an Epson 2200. Calibration on monitors and printer done by EyeOne Pro and Profilemaker Pro.
Printing: In CS3, creating the profile was done by printing the appropriate Eye One testchart. It gets opened with 'no color management', and is printed out with 'no color management'. This way, the testfile is being printed as the printer prints, with no tweaks. The color adjustment controls (brightness, saturation, cyan, magenta, etc) within the Epson driver are set to Zero. Then, this print is scanned in, using the Eye One, and you get the profile of the printer.
Now, when printing actual files, 'Photoshop Manages Colors' is utilized, and the created Profile from Eye One is selected.
We have had great luck with this, matching screen to print. If a slight tweak is needed, then we could use the Epson color adjustment controls to modify slightly.
Again, we've had great prints consistently for years using this method.
Now comes CS5...
Printing. Trying to use our existing profile...
When 'Photoshop Manages Colors' and the Profile are selected, now the Epson color adjustment controls are greyed out. So, we lose out on the 'tweaking' possibilities. I'm a fan of profiles, but now i have absolutely no control after the fact.
Trying to create a new profile....
'No Color Management' is not longer available as an option in 'Color Handling'. So, now i can't even print out the baseline testchart without adding some sort of profile to it? If i would choose 'Printer Manages Color' for this testpage, I would normally set the Epson Color Adjustments to Zero to get this baseline print for profiling. But now, If I would do that, it's only going to be greyed out when i go back in and let Photoshop manage the colors. Sheesh...
To make matters worse...
I pull up the same testchart in CS3 AND CS5. We are on a calibrated monitor, using North American Prepress presets on both programs. Same monitor, same color settings, same file. AND the testchart looks different in each program. Similar, but definite differences in shades. Eyedropper readings are the same for both programs.
So, CS5 is even rendering color differently on screen, and i have little or no way to create my custom profile or control my printer? Sheesh....
Any help or direction is appreciated.
Rich

thanks for the input.
I will look at the links you recommended. When 'Compensate for Scene-Referred Profiles' is unchecked in CS5, the monitors match. I'll need to do some research to see that that 'compensation' is, and what's happening.
As for the 'not considered a good color managed workflow'...
That's fine. But I would consider a good managed workflow using a calibrated monitor, and using a profile that matches the printer and substrate being used, right? When i plug in the canned printer profile in CS5, i get unsatisfactory results. With that 'correct' workflow, there is no way to modify what is ending up on the printed page. You get what you get.
Even if i back up to CS3, create a custom profile with the Eye One, run Colorsync/Profile all the way through, and eliminate the Epson Color Adjustments, I'm still obeying a 'correct' workflow, but what if my prints are slightly too Cyan? Or slightly too open/light? (granted, Profilemaker Pro does have a profile 'editor', but it's convoluted and extremely difficult to use. I've never gotten good results with it.)
If you have no way to do small adjustments at the back end on the printer, and it's been 'profiled' correctly, and the prints don't match calibrated screen with proper color spaces....
uh....then what do you do? which one is right? The screen or the printer?
I've had hundreds of images over the years go from screen to client (or press if we were controlling the print phase of the job), which then got printed, and have had basically 'zero' client issues with color. We have great color here on screen, from capture into post production.
But when my client wants a proof, in house, they want to see what they've been seeing all day in the studio and in post. How am I supposed to adjust my prints if a 'proper color managed workflow' isn't giving me matching proofs?
I sincerely appreciate the input here. I'm just frustrated, because even if my 'workflow' isn't technically correct, it's not without merits and I've had excellent consistent results that just 'worked'. Now, i've got to find a new method within CS5.

Color Profiles and Printing

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