DNG Profile Editor - Can it show L-a-b values for resulting colors?

Hello,
When adjust colors I haven't found out yet how I can see the resulting L-a-b values of the new color. I see the values when I move the mouse over the picture but these are still the original values even after a change. How can I display the values of the resulting colors assigned in the color table?
So what I would really like to enable (if that is possible) is that i hold the mouse over the left side of a color in the color table and see the original L-a-b values and then i move the mouse to the right part of the same cell at the color table and see the L-a-b values of the result.
Is that possible somehow?
Thanks,
Michael

At present, you cannot see the resulting (i.e., "after") Lab values. This has been noted as a request for future updates.

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DNG Profile Editor can't read ColorChecker shot on slide film

I use my DSLR (Olympus E-5, 50mm macro) to digitize old Kodachrome and Ektachrome slides. As it happens, I have reference shots of a Macbeth Color Checker I shot back then. I thought I would be able to create custom DNG profiles to get accurate digital conversions of the slides. But when I shoot the slide of the color checker, convert to DNG and try to build a profile in the DNG Profile Editor, I get an error when I hit the Create Color Table button, specifically, "Non-neutral grey patches. The gray patch in row 4, column3, has a significant color cast. Please reshoot the chart carefully to avoid color casts and try again." I've had the same problem with Kodachrome 64, and Ektachrome 200.
If I shoot a ColorChecker directly using the same illumination (I've tried both strobe and incandescent for the slides, neither works) the profile is generated OK.
BTW, the RGB values for neutral color checker patches on the short of the slide (strobe illumination) when I open it in the profile editor are
White 123, 127, 92
LLG 91, 94, 78
LG 61,60,60
DG 27,26,31
DDG 7, 6, 9
Black 0, 0 ,0
I tried reshooting the slide gelling the strobe with 30Y, so I got 89,89,88 for what I think is row 4 column 3, but I got the same error message.
So you can see that there is not a consistent color shift across the brightness range (skews from -B at the light end to +B at the dark end, while R and B are relatively constant)
OTOH, the values for the Color Checker shot straight with the camera are consistent in the color shift across the brightness range:
White 104, 104, 107
LLG 71, 70, 75
LG 46, 45, 48
DG 24, 23, 26
DDG 10, 10, 11
Black 2, 2, 2
Any way to get around this or am I just screwed.
Thanks

Hi!
I tried YouSendIt. The Express app did not install, and Safari reported an error, bad server response or something. I have earlier uploaded files using SendThisFile, but that required a URL, not an e-mail address. so if you are still interested in the files, you might mail me an upload URL. - Fine anyway that you already fixed the bug.
-BTW, the "Subscribe to this discussion by email"-button does not work for me, it keeps deselecting itself.
Kind regards - Hening.

DNG Profile Editor: Can't create profile from JPG file

Guys, could you tell me why DNG Profile Editor fails to create color table using 4 colored circles ? It says "Unable to check white balance using gray patches. Please use the four color circles to identify the four corner patches of the chart and try again" even though I places four circles properly (it works with DNG files shot with my Nikon D700).
I created this DNG file from JPG file by opening it in Camera Raw plugin and saving as DNG file. Original JPG was shot on camera of Samsun Galaxy S phone. I know I'm crazy but I want to have color profile for it All patches are properly exposed after slight correction of Exposure slider in Camera Raw.
I'm using latest beta3 build
Here is link to DNG and JPG file I'm trying to use
http://www.box.net/shared/4v2rzlzjfp
Thanks!

If you convert your JPG to a DNG can you change the profile to the one you computed from the other JPG you converted to a DNG?
Profiles are not for JPGs. Profiles are for RAW files that ACR supports. You can't (easily/ever) get a RAW file from your Galaxy S and Adobe doesn’t' support that RAW format even if you could.
To see if your profiling is working, you can used the ColorCheck module from a trial version of Imatest that you download from www.imatest.com and look at the color-error.
You can also try the Read_Color_CC24.jsx script from Rags-Gardner:
http://www.rags-int-inc.com/PhotoTechStuff/ColorCalibration/

Creative use of CC calibraton in the DNG Profile Editor

The DNG Profile Editor can be used to create profiles that mimic film looks.
I think right now it is manual trial & error process involving changes in hue, saturation and lightness, but it could be theoretically achieved with Color Checker calibration working in reversed order.
- Photograph the CC using your favorite film
- If B&W, develop in your favorite developer
- Scan the film
- Use the scan in the DNG Profile Editor as target values
The current DNG Profile Editor obviously does not allow that, it would require adding a new tab and clone the CC calibration feature and alter it to use the photographed values as target values as opposed to internal values.
I don't know if it would be worth the effort, but I thing the idea is worth of sharing.
By the way, unless I'm doing something wrong, the saturation slides don't seem to go 0%, so creation of B&W profiles is not possible.

Good idea. Yes, I've posted an example on my Flickr.
I chose a picture with good reds and yellows. There are four images in the set:
1. The original, untouched image. This is using the new Adobe Standard beta profile, brought into Lightroom with all default settings, including linear tone curve, no exposure or color adjustments, white balance "as shot", etc. For reference.
2. The image with my test profile applied, but no further adjustment.
3. My original attempt at the image, using the "old fashioned" pre-DNG-profiles raw processing method, for reference. The yellows are orangeish, which isn't that objectionable but also isn't accurate. The reds are weaker than I would like.
4. The "final" image, with my test profile plus additional tweaks -- white balance, tone curve for contrast, crushing out the blacks a bit more, etc. Two or three minutes of total processing, versus quite a bit more for the previous attempt with no "special" profile. The reds and yellows are perfect.
The Flickr set:
http://flickr.com/photos/100mph/sets/72157606547890574/
This was just a first, pretty quick attempt at playing with the DNG Profile Editor. I'm sure it can be tweaked more and even more can be accomplished.
[Edit: note: I changed the "upload date" on the test images so they wouldn't stay at the top of my Flickr page. Ignore the 2007 date, it doesn't mean anything.]

**-Camera Profiles and DNG Profile Editor FAQ-**

A page containing answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Camera Profiles and the DNG Profile Editor can be found
here

New FAQ entries:
What changed between beta 1 and beta 2?
Is it safe to delete beta 1 profiles? What will happen if I do?
I now have the beta 2 profiles and want to delete the older beta 1 profiles. How do I do this?
Please read carefully.

Camera Profiles and DNG Profile Editor

I saw the lightroom 2.0 eseminar and the presenter mentioned Camera Profiles and the DNG Profile Editor. All I see is ACR4.4 and 4.3. The the FAQ page says I need ACR4.5 and I can't find it and haven't gotten any update notice. Should I just wait for an update or forget it?
Don

>I have CS4. Will this overwrite ACR 5.1 in CS4?
If you have CS4, you should update to ACR 5.2. If you install 4.6, you will break your CS4 install. Either just run the Adobe updater app, or go to http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/new.jsp to download it. DNG converter is a separate download. Both camera RAW and NDG converter contain the final release version of the new profiles. DNG profile editor can still be downloaded from Adobe Labs: http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles. There is also a profiles download there that you don't need if you install DNG converter 5.2.

Bug in DNG Profile Editor

I have been trying to use the DNG Profile Editor to create an inverted tone curve to import a color negative. I want to create an inverted linear tone curve when I convert the negative and use the downstream software to apply the appropriate camera curve. The issue I face can be replicated by doing these steps:
Go in to DNG Profile Editor. Tone curve tab, select "linear" for the base curve. If you create your own custom curve and export the .dcp file and read it in with the color tables external profile, you can see the curve you expected. It works as you expect for any curve even negative curves unless you select 'linear'. Then, if you repeat the same process except this time you draw an inverted custom tone curve (so the image goes to/from negative to positive) and export the .dcp curve and view it, the curve includes your inverted curve, but also includes the base curve (as though the 'base curve' menu had been selected)...which it should not include. It seems to be a very difficult if not impossible task to get an inverted linear line for the tone curve which makes it impossible to do any scientific measurements with a negative image.
I want to report this as a bug and request a fix.
Thanks.

Rob, I looked at the both a curve xmp file and a profile recipe that contained a custom tone curve with a text editor. The profile recipe has a lot of information and it's not easy to locate the tone curve data. I think it's easier at the present time to input the individual points in the tone curve tab of the DNG Profile Editor. Maybe Adobe will add this capability at some point.

Colorchecker passport and the DNG profile editor

I finally got around to getting a Colorchecker passport to use with the DNG profile editor.
I was secretly hoping I could save time by shooting the chart on location and make an instant profile out of that - then the colors would be at least "close ballpark" so I would just have to apply white balance and then move on to more specific adjustments. But of course it wasn't that easy, it still takes a fair bit of color tweaking to get right in most circumstances.
So I'm wondering if my energy would be better spent trying to perfect one good dual illuminant general profile. For this I would use 3000 K tungsten at one end and 5500 K studio flash at the other. Or would it be better to use overcast daylight? In either case it's obviously important to ensure the chart is absolutely evenly lit.
And then I should probably have a separate profile for fluorescent tubes.
I'm curious what other people's experiences with the colorchecker/DNG profile editor are? How are you using it?

The color profile changes with the lighting, so a profile that was computed for daylight won’t be right for tungsten or fluorescent. Keep in mind that a custom camera profile is the set of corrections on top of an existing Adobe profile that the DNG has assigned to it, perhaps Adobe Standard, and all Adobe profiles are dual-illuminant profiles, so it makes sense you’d want to also create a dual-illuminant profile for general purpose use that has the same two lighting scenarios as Adobe used: 2850K and 6500K. The 6500K is the tricky one because full sun is warmer, closer to 5000K, and you need the right amount of haze to create 6500K sunlight, unless you are using standard D65 bulbs, indoors, which is likely what Adobe does.
I use a dual-illuminant profile for general purpose use, but since the WB-Tint values of both the tungsten and daylight ends are close to zero, lighting that has a tint not close to zero needs a separate profile. The common example is the greenish light from fluorescents, and I have several single-illuminant profiles for various artificial lighting scenarios with WB-Tint values that are relatively non-zero. I also have ones for very red sunsets and very blue twilight. If I had studio lighting I’d make a profile for that. Sometimes I make a custom profile for a church or other venue that has significant non-neutral walls or ceilings, or where sunlight through the stained-glass windows shining on the walls are giving a significant color-cast including a non-zero tint value to the lighting. If you know you’ll be doing some shots near a large amount of tall, green vegetation then a custom color profile can correct for the green tinge to the ambient lighting coming down from above mixing in with the sunlight.
Adding to the suggestion about wearing neutral clothing, I’d argue for dark neutral clothing because something lighter clothing will reflect environmental colors (sunlit vegetation or brick walls, etc, outdoors) and not be neutral.
Besides non-neutral clothing, try to avoid areas that have green grass or tree leaves or brick buildings that also color the light and reflect off the colorchecker. For the sunlit shots, I put my colorchecker face up on the sidewalk or parking lot, to avoid coloration from the grass and far away from trees or buildings especially in the direction I’m pointing the camera, so the only lighting is direct sun and ambient blue-sky, possibly diffused by hazy clouds. I point the camera down at the colorchecker, at a 45-degree angle and at a compass direction and not directly toward the sun, nor directly away from the sun. I try to shoot the target that is face up on the ground perhaps at a 90-degree angle from the sun to minimize any residual glare from the colorchecker’s slightly non-matte surface. Obviously directly away from the sun, the color-checker will have my shadow on it or I will be blocking the light from the sky near the sun.
I use the same sort of process for the tungsten end, choosing a room with neutral walls and put the target relatively flat on the floor facing up, perhaps tipped up somewhat toward the light, but not so much as to have any glare from the lighting, either, in other words, not with the lighting directly behind the camera, but somewhat over to the side.

I have downloaded DNG Profile Editor 1_0_4 and prepared a profile which I can not see in my Camera Raw 6.0 (I have photoshop CS5). Could you please give me an advice?

I have downloaded DNG Profile Editor 1_0_4 and prepared a profile which I can not see in my Camera Raw 6.0 (I have photoshop CS5). Could you please give me an advice?

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Remove Sophos
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DNG profile editor : where can we find a link for downloading an updated version (for Mac OS 10.9)

The links I found here (http://www.adobe.com/downloads/updates.html) are both for Windows, althought one is named "MacIntosh".
The beta version seems to have problems on Mac OS 10.9 (it is impossible to quit the application).

Adobe - DNG Profile Editor : For Macintosh : DNG Profile Editor 1.0.4

Questions about DNG Profile Editor recipe code

I have been playing around with DNG Profile Editor. With a text editor I made the following recipe:
I have some questions:
1. Right now I have my control points at 60 saturation. Will using two points for each color (say 70 and 40) make my changes more consistent across darker and lighter shades of the specific color?
2. Does DNG Profile editor respect HueLow and HueHigh, are they just placeholder numbers, or are they ignored if two points are close to each other?
3. What does FeatherAdjust do? I'm guessing it controls the rate of drop off of the corrections. Is the value respected by DNG Profile editor when it creates a profile?
Thanks for your time and attention, -Bruce.

1. For now DNG-only. Here's why:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#PEOnlyDNG
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyNameDNGPE
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyPESeparate
2. Standalone for now. See above links for why.
3. Use the 'Preview Color Changes' option in the Options menu.
4. You can use 'Apply Raw Adjustments' in the Options menu to see your raw adjustments. This is __not__ recommended for building a general-purpose profile because you are then optimizing a profile with specific image adjustments in mind, rather than building a profile based more on the inherent camera characteristics.
5. True, that is a limitation of this implementation.
6. I am not sure what you mean. The Chart Wizard automatically optimizes the color patches in a test shot based on reference values for many physical charts, which is more practically useful than the numbers printed on the reference card that comes with the chart.
7. Make sure you avoid color casts in the bottom row. The PE is picky about making sure your gray patches are relatively neutral. It is an attempt to help you get a better profile.
8. Use 'Show Affected Colors' from the Options menu.
You may wish to read this page carefully and thoroughly:
documentation
It is the reference online documentation for the DNG Profile Editor and a few of the things you wish to do, such as preview all color changes, apply raw adjustments, and visualize the extent of each color adjustment, are all documented there.

Camera Calibration in ACR & DNG Profile Editor

I am having the hardest time figuring out how to use the camera profiles generated with DNG Profile Editor in Camera Raw.
I am using Photoshop CS4 in Windows 7. I have generated the .dcp file with DNG Profile Editor and saved it in the folder: Program Files/Adobe/Photoshop CS4/Presets/Camera Profiles.
This is about as far as I've gotten. I have not been able use this profile in ACR under the Camera Calibration Tab. I have been lead to believe that is would show up automatically. I have not found any video tutorials related to ACR and installing Camera Profiles. They all seem to relate to Lightroom.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you would like to look or copy profiles manually (for example you have received a profile made by someone else; for Windows7 you should be able to see where the Profiles are stored by searching for *.dcp (meaning any file with the extension .dcp)
That will show you where the Adobe supplied profiles are located. You can copy your custom profiles to the sub-folder of your camera type in the Camera folder.The other folder you see is where the Adobe Standard profiles live.
If you cannot see the programdata folder (and that is the case by default) you can make all hidden files visible:
(this from Windows Help, just search for show hidden files)
Computer>Organize>Folder and search options>View. In Advanced settings check the radio button Show hidden files, folders, and drives and then OK
Now you should see the programdata folder visible under your system (C:) folder
I hope that helps.

Why the lens profile list can't show ALL lens profiles items from "LensProfiles 1.0" folder?

When I add a new lens profile - Samyang 14mm f2.8 - .lcp file into the "LensProfiles > 1.0" folder, I appear there are many lens profile items can't show in the Lightroom lens profiles list.
Please tell me how can I add these items into the LR lens profiles list........... thanks!!!

Sorry my bad, should have put.
Your custom Camera Raw & Lens Profiles should be installed to the User folders…
Lightroom 5 no longer uses the shared ProgramData (Windows) / Application Support (Mac) folders for Camera or Lens Profiles. Instead, it stores the built-in profiles with its program files.
When you create camera or lens profiles, they must be stored in the user locations listed below. If you previously stored custom profiles in other locations, you’ll need to move them to these user folders, otherwise Lightroom won’t be able to find them.
Windows—C: \ Users \ [your username] \ AppData \ Roaming \ Adobe \ CameraRaw \ CameraProfiles \
Mac—Macintosh HD / Users / [your username] / Library / Application Support / Adobe / CameraRaw / CameraProfiles /
For the lens profiles, substitute the LensProfiles folder for the CameraProfiles folder.
The camera and lens profile file extensions are:
.dcpr—camera profile recipe file used for creating/editing a profile in the DNG Profile Editor
.dcp—camera profile
.lcp—lens profile

Camera Profiles and DNG Profile Editor beta 2 now available

Hi everyone,
Beta 2 of the camera profiles and DNG Profile Editor are now available. Please visit here and enjoy:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles
I hope to have more detailed release notes/changes for you soon. You are welcome to ask questions, but please note that it may take a while for me to respond.
Eric

Eric,
I followed very carefully your instructions for installing the new beta2 profiles and deleting the beta1 profiles, but have the same problems as many others. I'd like to provide a bit more information. I'm running Windows Vista Home Premium and have installed Photoshop CS4, updated with ACR5.1 and Lightroom 2.1 final release. As others have described, the default for all of my images was set to one of the Camera profiles (Canon faithful beta1), but now the profile name in Lightroom is blank. I tried looking at the other profiles and it does indeed appear that the beta2 profile is being used, but if I then reset the image it now shows ACR4.4, whereas the image had been imported with the camera profile as default. Also, if I open an image in ACR5.1 that was specified to use the same camera profile, it now shows ACR4.4 and it is not using the beta2 profile of what I had been using, I can see this by selecting the other profiles. Going back to Lightoom, I guess I could select all my images and select the Canon faithful beta2 profile, but then the mark shows up bottom right of the image showing that they have all been edited/modified, is there anyway to get all my images using the profile I was using but the beta2 version, without this happening and how about new imports?
Thanks, David.

How to make dual illuminant profile in DNG profile editor?

I have just started working with the DNG Profile Editor. In another discussion I commented on the clarity of the instructions provided by the tutorial. I had no difficulty creating a single illuminant profile using the X-Rite color checker passport. But when it came to producing a dual illuminant profile, following the instructions exactly, I was stymied.
1. Open dng image of Color Checker photographed in 6500K illumination.
2. Open dng image of Color Checker photographed in 2850K illumination.
3. Select Chart tab in editor.
At this point one is instructed to "Click the 6500 K-lit ColorChecker image window to select it."
But the 2850K lit image (last loaded) has replaced the 6500K image window (at step 2) and I can find no way to reopen the 6500 K lit image window in order to proceed to the next step.
As a matter of interest, why do these instructions suggest setting the pop-up window in the Chart Pane to "6500K only" and then create color table with first image. Thereafter select second image, set pop-up window to "2850K only" and create color table. I seems to me that, having loaded two images (even if I can only see the second image loaded) one should choose "both color tables" and then create color table. In fact I have tried this and it does produce a profile, but I have no way of determining if it is a correct dual illuminant profile.
Please help.

2. HYPERLINK "/people/MadManChan2000"MadManChan2000,
Oct 21, 2013 9:09 AM in reply to blumesan
Note that the "Both color tables" option always creates a single-illuminant profile. The "Both color tables" option means that the computed color corrections will be applied to both color tables (i.e., the color table for the first calibration illuminant, which is usually Standard Light A, and also the color table for the second calibration illuminant, which is usually D65).
After playing around with the Profile Editor for a while, and examining the results with dcpTool, I now understand (I hope) what Eric is saying. In his language a single-illuminant profile is one created from a single dng image using the "both color tables" option (without regard to the illuminant used to capture that image.) When one does this (using Adobe Standard as the base profile) an examination of the resulting profile with dcpTool shows the following:
Two illluminants are identified: 17 (Std A) and 21 (D65).
Color Matrix 1 & 2; Forward Matrix 1 & 2; Hue Sat Delta Tables 1 & 2.
Which certainly gives the impression of a dual illuminant profile to novices like myself. My guess is that the PE software itself applies a default assumption of these two illuminants, corrects the image for each illuminant and constructs two color tables, one for each illluminant. When used, the profile will interpolate between the two tables based on the white balance of the image being edited.
If this is indeed correct it makes me wonder in what way does such a profile differ from a dual illuminant profile created from two dng images, each captured under a different illuminant (2800K & 6500K) as described in Tutorial #6 of the PE instructions. These instructions contain the following description of such a dual illuminant profile: "The result is a single profile that performs well under a wide range of illuminants instead of a single fixed illuminant." Which really make me scratch my head. Should one conclude from this that a single illuminant profile (created using the "both color tables" option) will perform less well under a range of illuminants? Will it perform well only under a narrow range of illuminants centered around the illuminant used to capture the single image?
As a footnote, it is worth remarking that I (and perhaps others) have been confused by examining profiles created by the XRite software when using only a single dng image. Examining such a profile with dcpTool one sees the following structure:
One illuminant only #23 (D50)
A single Color Matrix table.
A single Hue Sat Delta Table.
Thus one comes to expect this structure in a single illuminant profile.
I would be very happy to see Eric's comments..

DNG Profile Editor - Can it show L-a-b values for resulting colors?

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