Does Safari Convert Embedded Profiles to Monitor RGB or sRGB?

I am building a test page here:
http://www.gballard.net/firefox/
A Mac devotee, I checked the top rollover on a Windows Vista machine using Safari and can't figure out what I am seeing.
The top rollover (Windows Safari) is showing me a visual dead-on exact "match" between tagged whackedRGB and untagged sRGB (this is very impressive for Safari and not what I expected to see).
*I figure only two things could be happening:*
*1. Safari is Converting the tagged file to sRGB and Assuming sRGB on the untagged file, and NOT Converting to the monitor profile, or*
*2. Safari is Converting the tagged file to the monitor profile; and Safari is Assuming sRGB on the untagged file and then Converting it to the monitor profile.*
I only had access to the Windows machine for 5 minutes...does anyone know what's going on, how Safari is matching these two rollovers on Vista?
+++++
If any Windows Safari users are seeing even the slightest shift in the top rollover, that would be useful information...

Okay, I put my Windows Vista Business hard drive back in my Mac Pro and booted off it.
I installed Xrite iMatch 3.6.2 software, connected my eye-one display 2, profiled my monitor with a custom ICC profile, and rebooted.
Now I am seeing exactly the same Safari behavior I see on system 10.6 using this hardware (and my other Mac Pros running profiled 30" Apple displays) --- a slight shift in the untagged sRGB rollover.
The untagged sRGB rollover appears like Safari for Windows is defaulting untagged sRGB to my custom monitor profile now, the same as my OS-X machines, and as I expected it to work on the PC.
+++++
Previously, my Windows system was using whatever profile my NEC 2490WUXi setup by default --- I had a feeling setting a custom profile would provide a clue.
Seeing is believing...

Similar Messages

Windows, wide-gamut does Safari Convert to monitor profile?

Hi, I was looking for the Safari Windows forum, but this was the only one I could find.
Can someone with a Wide Gamut monitor (not set to its sRGB preset) using a calibrated custom monitor profile look at the sRGB rollovers here
gballard.net/photoshop/srgb_wide_gamut.html
And tell me if the Tagged image is a dead-on exact "match" to the Untagged rollover?
If the Tagged file looks normal or over-saturated like the Untagged image?
I am trying to determine if Safari for Windows Converts Tagged color to the monitor profile like Photoshop (or only to sRGB) and it should be most obvious on wide-gamut AdobeRGB type monitors.
I've pretty much concluded the Untagged color gets sent straight through to the monitor unchanged (so Untagged images should appear overly red on wide gamut panels).
Thanks...

Okay, I put my Windows Vista Business hard drive back in my Mac Pro and booted off it.
I installed Xrite iMatch 3.6.2 software, connected my eye-one display 2, profiled my monitor with a custom ICC profile, and rebooted.
Now I am seeing exactly the same Safari behavior I see on system 10.6 using this hardware (and my other Mac Pros running profiled 30" Apple displays) --- a slight shift in the untagged sRGB rollover.
The untagged sRGB rollover appears like Safari for Windows is defaulting untagged sRGB to my custom monitor profile now, the same as my OS-X machines, and as I expected it to work on the PC.
+++++
Previously, my Windows system was using whatever profile my NEC 2490WUXi setup by default --- I had a feeling setting a custom profile would provide a clue.
Seeing is believing...

Convert to Profile Puzzlement

I am afraid I am revealing my ignorance with this question, but I am puzzled by what I see when I convert an image from Adobe RGB to sRGB. What I see is no change whatsoever, that is visible to my eye. My working space is Adobe RGB, but when I convert an image to sRGB in order to send it for viewing on a monitor, as for example when attaching a lower-resolution version to an e-mail, I see no difference in the image on my calibrated (Spyder2) monitor.
I start with an image taken with my Canon 40D with the color space set for Adobe RGB, as I print most of my good images and do not post images on the Web with any frequency. As I mentioned, my Photoshop CS3 working space is also Adobe RGB. When I do use Convert to Profile... and choose sRGB, I can see no change at all. I have tried a different copy of the sRGB profile (sRGB IEC61966-2.1), properly installed in C:/Windows/System32/Spool/Drivers/Color, but there is no difference.
Explanation or clarification will be appreciated.
Bob N.

Not sure I agree there...?
The way I understand it, "convert to profile" isn't supposed to change appearance, that's the whole point, because Photoshop is changing the actual numbers to accomodate the new profile.
"Assign profile" on the other hand, *will* change the appearance.
This becomes clearer if you keep the histogram open: when you "convert", you can actually see the histogram change. With "assign" the histogram doesn't change - and as a consequence; the appearance does.
The reason for "converting" from your working space (Adobe/ProPhoto) to sRGB is so that the image will look *roughly* the same in a non-color managed environment (e.g. the web) as it does on your color managed monitor.
...or am I way off here?

Images with no Embedded Profile

Can anyone tell me what LR does in terms of Colour Management if you import a non-raw format image e.g JPEG, that has no profile associated with it?
Does it Assign a specific colour space - if so which?
Thxs
Colin

>Does it Assign a specific colour space - if so which?
Images without an embedded profile are assumed to be sRGB and will be handled accordingly by Lightroom (i.e. on-the-fly conversion to Lightroom's own RGB colour space). Remember that all editing is carried out in Lightroom RGB.

Trying to configure Windows default Monitor RGB

Hi, I am trying to figure out the Windows color management interface to set up and confirm Monitor RGB.
Also how to set up and confirm that Windows is Defaulting to sRGB in untagged/unmanaged apps.
Thanks in advance for any help...
First DEVICES tab:
In this screen shot, I see Device is set to "Display: Generic PnP Monitor-ATI"
This doesn't look like a monitor profile (what is it)?
I see "Use my settings for this device" is checked
What behavior does that turn off/on?
In ICC Profiles, I see "Starbucks.icm (default)"
This looks like the Default monitor profile, but how/where was it selected?

Okay, I plugged my Vista hard drive into my Mac Pro and booted into Windows Vista and took a deeper look.
Control Panel> Color Management> Device tab:
"Display: Generic PnP Monitor - NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT" appears to selecting the monitor attached to that card.
To see the actual monitor, go to Device Manager> Monitors (expand): right+click on Generic PnP Monitor> Properties> Details tab> click/expand Property drop menu and scroll to Hardware Ids ("Value" should list monitor). I am not sure what PnP means (plug & play?).
Checking "Use my settings for this device" probably lets me add and select profiles and behaviors to use with this monitor.
Unchecking "Use my settings for this device" probably tells Windows to make these decisions for me behind the mystery curtain (not desired if you like to know what's happening).
To select/change Windows Default Monitor RGB:
For example, if I wanted to switch my Monitor RGB to sRGB, I would click on "Add..." and choose the sRGB profile from the list of profiles installed on the system. Same routine if I had a custom monitor profile....
Once I have the desired monitor profile appearing in Devices> Name — to set it as my Monitor RGB — I would click on it to highlight it, then click on "Set as Default Profile" (and reboot for safe measure and to be sure the change sticks after rebooting).
+++++++
To confirm Windows Default Monitor RGB:
Go to Control Panel> Color Management> Device tab (and note profile "(default)".
This "(default)" designation probably identifies the current Windows default monitor profile, and it is probably where Photoshop picks up its Monitor RGB profile.
In other words, in the above example, Windows is using the "Starbucks.icm" custom monitor profile.
+++++++
To confirm Photoshop's Monitor RGB:
In Photoshop, go to Edit> Color Settings.
See Working Spaces> RGB and click to expand the drop menu.
Photoshop's Monitor RGB is the profile listed to the right of "Monitor RGB - (profile name)".
Note: Never set Working RGB to Monitor RGB (I am only pointing this out so you know where to confirm what profile Photoshop is using for Monitor RGB)...

PS CS with color space set to Prophoto RGB - will ACR change embedded profiles?

Probably a foolish question but my problem is that I have a mixture of files:
My own files (all initially RAW (NEF) which I import into ACR as 16 bit Prophoto RGB ).
Files from family members and from slide scanning performed elsewhere - they are in 2 groups:
The first of these from elsewhere acquired files were all JPEGs that I converted to Tiffs in Bridge before setting out to edit them-- all unfortunately 8bit and sRGB.
The scanned files were scanned as tiffs but also 8bit and sRGB.
My normal procedure is that I in ACR I have set the files to 16 bit and Prophoto RGB. In PS the same but also to preserve embedded profiles. I have the impression that working with the "foreign" files in 16 bit does give me more room for editing but that I should continue with the embedded profiles.
Is there a way to ensure that the color profiles are not changed in ACR even if the line in the middle below says 16 bit Prophoto RGB (I have PS CS5). I would hate to have to change this line each time I view a file in ACR. I would hate more to loose the editing facilities in ACR as these acquired files do need som special care before they are mixed with my own in our family albums. I prefer the 16 bit Prophoto RGB option for my own files as I like to play with them - i.e. apart from including them in Photo Albums.
I do see that a logical way is to process all the acquired files before going to my own files but it is so much more practical for me to work with a mixture of the files sorted chronologically - a year or month at the time.
I would even consider getting an upgrade to CS6 if this version could help me.
Can someone enligthen me?
Thanks, Git

Hi, Tom.
The real issue here is getting accurate color. You can't get accurate color by setting your monitor profile to sRGB. sRGB is a virtual color space that doesn't describe the exact color gamut of any physical device. But, in order to display sRGB or any color space accurately, you need to get a characterization of your monitor.
Here is an AWESOME way to get access to a colorimeter: http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/pantone-huey-colorimeter Looks like for $32 you can rent this for a week. Go in on this with a friend and profile both of your monitors and hardly pay a thing. If you have a reasonably good quality LCD monitor, this custom profile you make will be fairly accurate for many months. At the very least, this is way more accurate than having no regular calibration at all.
Hope this helps!
Bret

Display profiles and soft proofing Windows RGB / Monitor RGB

This might have asked before, but I did not find any definite answer for this. Sorry this gets a bit long.
Short question:
What's the difference between softproofing with Windows RGB and Monitor RGB targets? I see differences in my image between these targets.
Long question(s):
Here's some reasoning.. let me know when I go wrong.
I have hardware calibrated my display Spyder 3 elite to sRGB standard. I have understood that the generated display profile contains a LUT table that affects gamma values for each RGB component, so that affects both gamma and color temperature. That table is loaded into video card when Windows starts. In addition to the LUT table, the display profile contains what? Probably information on what color space the display has been calibrated to. Does that matches directly with the LUT table information, but may deviate from sRGB in the case my monitor cannot reproduce sRGB 100%?
Now if I have image that that is in sRGB, but the embedded sRGB profile has been stripped away, should any non color management aware image viewer show the colors properly, if it is assumed that 1) my monitor can handle full sRGB space and 2) my monitor was succesfully calibrated to sRGB and the LUT table has been loaded into video card?
Or does it still require a color management aware program to show the image, which implies that the LUT table information alone is not enough and the display profile contains some extra information that is needed to show the image correctly? I would think this is true, as I needed to turn on color management in Canon Zoom Browser to see images in it the same way as in Photoshop.
Now to the original question, what's the difference in Photoshop when soft proofing with Windows RGB and Monitor RGB targets
I read from www.gballard.net that
Photoshop can effectively "SoftProof" our web browser color:
Photoshop: View> Proof SetUp> Windows RGB
Photoshop's Soft Proof screen preview here simulates how unmanaged applications, web browsers, will display the file on 2.2 gamma monitors, based on the sRGB profile. If the file is based on sRGB and our monitor gamma is 2.2 and D/65 6500 degrees Kelvin, we should see very little shift here, which is the goal.
Photoshop: View> Proof SetUp> Monitor RGB
THIS IS WHERE the color-brightness-saturation problem will repeat consistantly.
Soft Proofing Monitor RGB here strips-ignores the embedded ICC profile and Assigns-Assumes-Applies the Monitor profile or color space.
The color and density changes seen here show the difference between the monitor profile and the source profile sRGB.
I'm not sure how to read that. Assume here that my monitor has been calibrated to sRGB and the PS working space sRGB. Do in both cases photoshop strip away color profile from the image at first? What happens after that? Does in Windows RGB case Photoshop pass the color values as they are to display? What does it do in "Monitor RGB" case then? Does it assign my monitor profile to the image? If it does, does there also happen conversion from one color space to another? In either one conversion there must happen as the soft proofing results are different. Does either one cause "double profiling" to the image as the monitor is already calibrated?
Thanks

Windows defaults to sRGB if you don't calibrate your monitor so untagged sRGB files should display (more or less) correctly in applications that don't know about color management on systems with uncalibrated monitors.
When proofing against Windows RGB you're proofing against sRGB, it will show you how applications that don't know about color management on an uncalibrated monitor will show the image. This is what you proof against if you want to see how the image will display in web browsers.
When you proof against Monitor RGB, Photoshop will assign your monitor's icc profile to the image which tends to be utterly useless most of the time.

PS CC Converting to profile and embedding a profile

Hi,
I just started using PS CC 2014. I have a number of variables that have changed, such as a new iMac, secondary monitor etc. I am working in aRGB when processing and I go to print via the Canon plug-in for Photoshop. I convert to profile using the ICC profile I want to use for the media and ink set that I am using. I had custom profiles made for these papers. When I save the file after printing it, it embeds the ICC profile, example Epson Premium Luster etc. instead of keeping it in the aRGB working space. I do not recall ever seeing this done automatically in prior versions and years that I have used PS. I would like to save the changes etc. but I do not want the paper profile embedded because I may want to use another paper with that file next time. When I open the file the next time and I want to print it I get the message that there is a mis-match between working profile and embedded profile, or something similar to that ( I do not have the message in front of me ). That means I have to convert the file to the working space at that point and it is an extra step that I did not have to do before.
Is there a box I need to check or uncheck somewhere to keep the file in the aRGB space or am I just loosing my mind here?
Thank you,
Jim

I'm not a Color Management expert, but converting and then saving from Adobe RGB to a Printer Profile tags and saves that file with that profile.
Your file space, Adobe RGB, no longer matches Photoshop's Adobe RGB working space and that's why you get the warning.
If you are printing from Photoshop, you do not convert to that profile and save, otherwise it is embedded.
That would only make sense if the printer was somewhere else, and you would then make a copy of that file with that specific printer profile embedded.
What you do is use the Print dialog and check "let Photoshop manage colors" and you pick your profile from the list.
Your file stays tagged as Adobe RGB.
You can turn off mismatch warnings in CC 2014 But be sure you are not "hiding a problem".
Edit menu > Color Settings
Uncheck these boxes:
Gene

Safari cannot install profile due to an unknown error. I didn't install anything. Does anyone knows why I'm getting this error message?

I was watching a clip in livel, suddenly I have seen a error message on my iPhone screen safari cannot install profile due to an unknown error,
Does anyone know why I have got this message?
I didn't install and did not want to install anything!

You can not download items from the internet with an ipad, you can download from the app store or from itunes or some cloud services (dropbox) but not from browsers, there is an Iphone app for we transfer in the app store that appears that it can be used on an ipad as well.
You may want to take a look, its free

Layer got merged after using convert to profile form RGB to CMYK

Hi all,
I am converting a print design in photoshop cs5 from RGB to CMYK. My Layer got merged after using convert to profile form RGB to CMYK.
after this i have save file and close it and i didn't have backup of this file.
Now Please suggest How do i recover my all layers
i need only my layers back..... Please help me

Sorry bud...but if you converted to CMYK and did NOT hceck Preserve Layers and then saved over your original layered RGB file, your layered RGB image is toast–as in gone, as in you are screwed...sorry, but Convert to Profile can flatten all the layers (depending on the options) and once flattened and saved, you have no option to recover the layered RGB file (unless you have is saved somewhere).

Does iOS 7's Safari Convert Youtube Flash and HTML5 Videos to Quicktime? How Is it Playing?

Hi. It's good to see Safari (I have iOS 7) playing videos on sites like Youtube. Is it converting Flash and HTML5 to Quicktime or is the video playing because it's only using HTML5? How does Safari go about playing Youtube and Flash videos? Apple has solved the Flash for mobile problem then?
Thank you. Have a great upcoming sunday mass/ great week.
God bless.

there is no flash for mobile problem since adobe has discontinued flash for any mobile device.
Safari is not converting anything.
HTML5 facilitates streaming video in a format that ios devices can natively play(mp4).
Youtube/google is putting stuff up in html5.

Wide Gamut Monitors & 10.6 Default Monitor RGB

Hi, an Adobe employee just told me Snow Leopard 10.6x defaults untagged and unmanaged color, that SL "uses sRGB for untagged images/graphics, and converts to the profile for each display”.
I no longer have a WIDE GAMUT monitor to test myself.
Can a few people with wide gamut displays running 10.6x and Safari 5 please go to
www(dot).gballard.net/photoshop/srgbwidegamut.html
and roll over the tagged and untagged sRGB images at the top of the page.
And post back if they "match" to prove or disprove his statement?
(By his statement, the tagged and untagged rollovers should "match."
Also, if they shift, how does the untagged sRGB change in appearance?
Thanks (I am trying to get my page updated)...

That's expected, a wide gamut monitor will be a lot redder.
Yes. Just a lot more color range and gamut to view than a "standard" monitor.
Tagged) Photoshop/Safari is reading the embedded profile and CONVERTING to Monitor RGB.
Actually, that's what the OS or Photoshop always does. No matter what you're viewing in Photoshop, and no matter what the CMYK, RGB or grayscale working spaces are set at, the color you view is always your monitor profile, which is the last conversion done before displaying the image in Photoshop to the screen. Which is why I use my monitor profile as my working RGB space. I want my images to contain the color data of the device I'm viewing, not a canned space forced to fit. Here's what I mean. This image is Adobe RGB and my monitor profile overlaid. It's mostly a top down view. That was the best orientation I could turn the 3D map to for the example.
The ghosted map is the monitor space. As you can see, if I were to use Adobe RGB as my working space, I'd be losing all of the color I could be using that extends beyond Adobe RGB (reds through pinks, greens), since Adobe RGB would limit how far I could saturate those colors, as it has to stay within the limits of the profile. On the other side of the coin, the left side shows how much of Adobe RGB extends beyond my monitor space. The even brighter pinks through bright cyans across the top left.
But I don't care about that color. I already get all the saturation I can reasonably use for a photo. I mean, just how unnaturally bright do you want someone's lime green shirt to look? Using a color space your monitor can't display is also a very bad idea in my opinion. Say you're happy with the color you see on your current monitor. Then you get a new monitor at some point with an even wider color range. Suddenly, those bright pinks are way more saturated than you remember. What's wrong? Nothing. Your new monitor is just showing you values that were already in your Adobe RGB tagged image your previous monitor was incapable of displaying. I would much, much rather use my monitor profile for my RGB images. Then when I do move to any even wider range monitor, ColorSync/Photoshop will be able to properly map the color to fit the new monitor profile so the images look identical, or nearly so, as they did on the monitor I was using before.
In short, I consider canned profiles such as Adobe RGB, sRGB, ColorMatch RGB, etc. completely useless. None of them represent the device (monitor) in front of you. Only a properly created monitor profile is accurate to that device.
If the Adobe theory were true, you would NOT see a brighter, redder image on the rollover (they would "match").
Sorry, -g. By, So far, it sounds like his theory is true., I just meant that my tests were following his theory up to that point. After that though, it falls apart.
Can you tell me if Photoshop> Assign Profile (your custom EIZO monitor profile) displays like the Safari untagged rollover (especially level of saturated reds)?
Yes, but it looks that that to start with if I open the untagged image and tell PS to leave the color as is. So PS/ColorSync is already doing the only thing it can do with the color, mapping it to fit the monitor profile.

Colour management - embedded profiles

Could anyone assist as I haven't had this problem in CS5 photoshop but when I upgraded to CS6 photoshop I followed the recommended settings like using ProPhoto RBG.
I edit in the working space colour management but not always have the same results on screen...have calibrated my monitor.
Then when it does look correct on screen and I re-import into Photoshop, my picture turns out bright red and I need to use Adobe RBG (1998). I am saving the pictures with the profile embedded, works better with Adobe RBG.
What should I be using as the settings as well as management policies - currently Preserve Embedded Profiles?
I don't want to have nice looking pictures in Photoshop and then have them print incorrectly or look terrible on another monitor.
Thanks

it would be more accurate to say that the Working RGB is "Assumed" not Assigned...assigning is an action of tagging the image.
Hi, Jeff, I concede your point.
If I recall correctly, Bruce and color.org also favor that terminology?
Though as a non-technical writer targeting beginners, I prefer to use "in essence," "for practical purposes" Photoshop is "Assigning" its default/working space under c.pfaffenbichler's scenario because it has the same end effect -- the proof is -- manually Edit> Assign Profile (working space) and the source RGB Converts to Monitor RGB and Print Space exactly the same as c.pfaffenbichler's approach (or is that not correct?).
But I do believe everyone here agrees that THE CORRECT SOURCE PROFILE MUST ALWAYS BE ASSUMED OR ASSIGNED BEFORE PHOTOSHOP CAN FAITHFULLY CONVERT/TRANSFORM SOURCE COLORS TO MONITOR RGB, DESTINATION PROFILES OR SPECIFIC PRINT SPACES.
For me, I think my loose "Assign" terminology is easier to visualize and demonstrate in a learning environment (at least it was for me to grasp or describe the concept in an active, visual sense).
On the other hand, I think "Assume" better suits OSX and Windows engineering assumptions the monitor is an sRGB-compliant device in an unmanaged viewing environment -- but that's just how I choose to present my theories.
As always, I prefer a shredding if I am wrong or unclear because my goal is to get it right and to the point...
G BALLARD

Export as PDF with embedded profiles for Grayscale images

Does InDesign CS6 export pages with Grayscale images as PDF with embedded profiles?
Possible profiles, for instance:
– Gamma 2.2
– Dot gain 20%
– Black Ink ISO Coated v2 (ECI)
Export mode:
– Acrobat 5 or higher
– No color conversion
– Embed all profiles
Test by Acrobat Pro
Advanced > Print production > Preflight > PDF analysis > List objects using ICC/Lab/Calibrated Color
[The question is not about the export of Color images as Grayscales]
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

I wouldn't ever use different RGB profiles and different CMYK profiles and
different Gray profiles in one doc – it's just necessary for tests.
If you had a hypothetical case where your InDesign document's assigned CMYK profile and intended output was ISOcoated_v2_300_eci and you recieved grayscales for placement with different gray profiles assigned, I think you would have to make the conversion in Photoshop if you want the grayscales to be converted to your ISOcoated_v2_300_eci output intent space.
So in this case I have a grayscale image with Dot Gain 10% assigned and you can see the 50% patch is reading as 50% in Info panel:
If set my Working Gray space to the ISO Coated profile as above and do a Convert to Profile with the Destination set to Working Gray:
The preview doesn't change but I get converted gray values—50% is now 44%:
If I place the grayscale in an InDesign doc with ISOcoated_v2_300_eci assigned as the CMYK profile, the preview won't change (you have to turn on Overprint /Sep Preview), and the converted numbers will show in Separation Preview. The preview and numbers will also be unchanged in Acrobat if you export to default PDF/X-4

Embedded profile mismatch

Hi
I have a Nikon D300, color space set to AdobeRGB. i am shooting in Raw NEF. In Raw when i convert to gray scale i get thefollowing message:
'the document ..... has an embedded color profile that does not match the current working space. "
Photoshop CS3 is set to use color space North America Prepress 2, default is Adobe RGB(1998). I know it seems basic but what is it best to just use embedded profile or is it best do something else.
Is it best to change the color space to another setting? Thanks for your time.
Regards Bruce

Do a "Open as Smart Object"
That way you can retain the capture space in the file but you are working in the Adobe RGB working space.
It's best to do your image edits "in" Photoshop in a uniform color space.

Does Safari Convert Embedded Profiles to Monitor RGB or sRGB?

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