FCP to STP workflow problems

Hi all, having some real problems with a charitable recording I have done for the kids local theatrical group and wonder if anyone can help. Here is the issue:
Recorded kids play with single cam with onboard mic. Used Sony HDV A1 which has used track 1 for the audio from the shotgun mic and has put the audio from the onboard stereo? mics on track 2. Audio is as good as its going to be with the shotgun mic apart from the times when parents are clapping when it distorts.
Have the whole play in 2 long - 45mins - runs without any stop start.
I then put the sequence on the timeline and use the razor blade to split the various scenes (need to cut some of the play out). Now have the whole play with 2 audio tracks with cuts where I want them. Tricky bit comes next.
I need to loose the audio track 2 as it is too quiet and use the mono track 1 but try to do something with the distorted and too loud sections. I tried to send each cut scene to STP, make the adjustments, send it back etc., but have noticed (after waiting 24-hours for the render down to SD for the DVD) that each of the cut scenes seems to have been treated as a whole 90 minute section by STP with each one coming in at 1.2Gb! No wonder Compressor was taking a long time to do its stuff!
So, I take it there is a better way but any idea how I should do this? Working with the 45 minute clips on the timeline is nice and easy but how do I handle the audio? Just want the one track replicated across audio 1 and 2 plus for STP to just handle each section of the sequence rather than the whole thing.
Many thanks in advance,
Michael

Hi Jim,
Many thanks - this has helped a lot and I can now work on the audio with each clip and the resulting file size has gone down to a fraction of the original.
Any thoughts on the 2nd part of my question around audio tracks? As mentioned my Sony A1 seems to have captured two tracks and I need to discard one (the onboard mic). If I do this by simply deleting the 2nd Audio track in FCP when I open the track 1 in STP I can see it again. I guess by removing it from the FCP timeline does not result in removing the track from the referenced file that is sent to STP.
Tried converting tracks to mono in STP, saving and returning to FCP but then I get a 'reconnect missing media' error as the number of tracks has changed. When I reconnect it works fine (mono audio from both left and right) but the red \ through the file name audio symbol is still shown against the STP file name in the FCP browser. Suppose I can live with this but the red \ is probably telling me that I am doing something wrong!!
Thanks once again for the help so far,
Regards, Mike

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Missing "(sent)" files roundtripping b/n FCP and STP

Sorry, but I'm posting this here because the STP forum is quite slow to reply. And, I'm not sure if this is an FCP or STP issue.
I have just finished my first project using STP. I was doing a lot of round tripping b/n FCP5 and STP (about 15 clips) and everything was working splendidly. Airconditioner noise easily zapped! A beautiful thing. Annoying pops and cracks removed with just a few clicks of the mouse. More beautiful things. Then...I finished the project (thank gawd), output via Compressor and into DVDSP. The final DVDs are produced and the client loves them. But, I had both a 30i and 24Pa version of the project. I had originally edited the 30i version and then duplicated this project and removed all the Advanced Pulldown to produce the 24P version (without having to re-edit; another beautiful thing). Note, I DID NOT do the STP round-tripping until the 24P version of the project. After everything was complete, I deleted the 30i project (it was never needed) leaving just the 24P version on the internal disks.
Suddenly, when I next opened the 24P version of the project ALL OF THE STP-FIXED AUDIO WAS GONE! NOW OFFLINE!!!
Where the heck did they go? And, where were they originally? When you round-trip like this, what kind of file is STP (or FCP) creating? In the Browser, I noticed FCP creates a new audio file clip icon and appends "(sent)" to the original audio clip name (e.g. an audio clip with the name "21DConfRoom03" has a duplicate? audio clip created, presumably by STP, with the new filename "21DConfRoom03 (sent)")
Where are these so-called "(sent)" audio clips source stored on disk? Where in the standard FCP file structure are they? Is it possible FCP was putting them into the 30i version of the project file structure by mistake? (remember, i first edited in the 30i project version before duplicating and creating a 24P version).
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
-Michael

When you say ProTools outputting individual aiff, is it a mix down file?
Yes. I have certain audio configurations that we need to output for the networks. Ch1 & 2 are a stereo mix, then CH3&4 might be Mix minus Music, then Ch5 Mono Dialog, Ch6 Mono Prod Audio. Ch7&8 SFX....9 and 10 Stereo music.
So the mixer mixes down what we need for the various tracks.
Also, as I change my film, is there any way to update the found files in ProTools?
Don't change your cut. You should not be sending the audio to the mix if you aren't done cutting. You wait until you have picture lock, then send the audio. If there is a change, then you re-export the OMF, they reconform, and send new tracks. HOW does the audio guy conform? Got me...I just know that they can.
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Metering issue between FCP and STP

Hello folks,
I'm having an issue when I export a piece of audio from FCP to STP. Once it is in STP, I normalize it up to 0 db. When this is complete, the meters peak in the 0 db range. When I save and return that same piece of audio back to FCP, it will now peak at -12 db. I'm unsure of why there is a discrepency in the meters. Why does it say 0 db in one program and -12 db in the other? I'm not sure what I'm missing and was curious to know if others have had this issue as well.
Mac 2.0 G5 Mac OS X (10.4.4) FCP Studio
Mac 2.0 G5 Mac OS X (10.4.4) FCP Studio

Yes the meters are all wonky in STP. My guess is that whoever designed them does not know the first thing about audio post production or digital metering and work flow between formats.
If Final Cut Pro uses -12dbfs as their reference instead of sony -20 standard then so be it, but broadcast standard is -20dbfs = 0dbm
It looks like they have taken the -12dbfs = 0dbm and included it into the meters in STP. So they are no longer using the -12 ref correctly and are not actually Digital Full Scale Meters but an entirly NEW kind of meter that Apple has design for the purpose of?
So a REAL -12db full scale signal shows as 0db full scale in these meters what ever they are. Not rational or useful. Plus the balistics are from outer space. You cannot seem to tell how close you are to the imginary O reference they are using.
I repeat: A REAL - 12DB Full Scale signal, shows as 0db Full Scale in these meters adding to an already confusing hodge podge of digital references.
Minor discrepency
So if you want to master your audio close to 0db full scale for DVD you will have to use a different program as 0dbfs does not exist on these meters! So when you hit +12db on these meters the signal is actually 0dbfs on ANY OTHER FULL SCALE DIGITAL METER IN THE WORLD.
Daniel Shattuck
Creative Director
Trinity Learning Community

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FCP quicktime conversion export problem

issue exporting still image instead of video
FCP quicktime conversion export problem
within the last 2 weeks i have exported from FCP studio 7.0.3 as quicktime conversion, the settings are:
export as QuickTime Conversion:
> Options> quality> set to Best>
Standard Video Compression Settings
Compression Type: H.264
Motion:
Frame Rate: Current fps
Key Frames: Every 24 frames
check Frame Reordering
Compressor:
Quality: Best
Encodeing: Best (Multi-pass)
Data Rate:
Automatic
Filter… none
Size>
Dimensions:
NTSC 720x486 16:9
>ok
Sound: (don't change anything)
Format: Integer (Little Endian)
Sample rate: 48.000kHz
Sample size: 16-bit
Channels: (L R)
>Export
the results i get a odd. - the video exports fine, except for the beginning titles, instead a still frame image from somewhere else in the video occupies that intro, until the first transition- in this case- dip to white, then the rest of the video is fine. the portion of the beginning that does not show are composed of: livetype text credits in V2 - in which i have done a manual opacity fade up and down - so the livetype text fades in, over matte color solid in V1. in the exported video -i do not see any of this, all i see is a seemingly random still from somewhere else in the video. i can however hear the audio as it is supposed be.
cant figure out why this is happening. anybody know?
i think the livetype files are 1920 x 1080.
my FCP sequence is 720 p
this has only recently started happening and doesn't seem to be consistent.
im wondering if it has to do with the live type files, or the white solid?…
or the conversion settings above?

Alistair
Earlybird is exporting H264 ... the Key Frames setting is determining the GOP length. This value should really be determined based on the complexity of the video, to my understanding, the actual frame rate has no bearing on it. If you have very complex fast moving content then a low Key Frame rate is advisable to ensure good image quality (although it will adversely affect the filesize) whereas if you have slow moving or static content (like an interview subject) then a higher Key Frame rate will still produce a good image but at a smaler filesize. The default of 24 should be pretty much fine as a catchall starting point.
Earlybird
Corrupted render files (and render references) can be a pain because FCP will use those files and references in place of the original media when building the export. And so it should as it does't want to waste time re-rendering sections that are apparently already rendered. Unfortuantely, as noted, if the render file has gone bad and/or starts referencing the wrong media then you'll get these wierd flashes of completely unexpeced and unwanted footage showing up where it shouldn't be. When you trash those files then QT / FCP will just go back and re-reference the original media ... so it's usually a worthwhile step to take just in case thats the problem. The worse case scenario is that it only that doesn't work and you spend some time unecessarily re-rendering.
As to why these files go bad? That I don't know. Why do Preferences get corrupted? That I don't know either but it definitely happens :-(
Cheers
Andy

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I exported from FCP to STP via multitrack, did my audio edits, then exported back to FCP via xml import. Three video clips in FCP are now out of sequence (they are completely different, like they have different I/O points. These clips are only 1 second long .
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I hate when someone doesn't first search threads for answers before posting. That would be ME late last night. After searching, I don't find definitive answers to my issues.
I am using DV NSTC 48Khz preset in FCP.
The FCP Easy setup: Format NTSC, Rate (all rates)
In STP, Preferences, synchronization, frame rate is 30 non-drop. Is this correct?
What is 30/29.97/Drop Frame?
Could this cause my video clips to come back to FCP out of sync and have the wrong I/O points.
I would really like to use STP instead of just doing the sound in FCP.

FCP to STP: "Can't find render.mov"

I'm having trouble roundtripping FCP to STP. I control/click, choose send to STP, but half the time i get an error message that it can't find the "render.mov" file. Or, sometimes it goes to STP, but when I save to send it back, I get the same message.
Someone on another board suggested I delete all my render files via Render Manager, then re-render the timeline. Is that safe? Is there any risk involved in deleting those render files? Also, will deleting those also delete any STP changes I was able to make?
Thanks for any help or suggestions!
David Manis

This is what you need to do. uninstall FCP and then install FCS. it may take time to find every thing. don't forget
Library> application support> pro apps
Preferences too.. if you have footage on the computer that you want, don't delete those capture scratch files and render files.
there are some files in there also....

Exporting from FCP to STP not going so well

Hello All,
I've been working between FCP and STP, sending the audio over to STP for a better mix.
Things have been going pretty well, although the feature of having the export back to FCP and automatically drop in the timeline doesn't seem to work. I do like the greater degeree of control via STP.
Anyway, I am attempting to send another multi-track file over to STP. I'm attempting to do this from the timeline, and not from the browser. To accomplish this, I select all, then choose send from the file menu, etc.
The following is happening:
1. The file send reads, "Exporting XML Data"
2. Then it stops, and a new message reads, "Error sending selection to Soundrack Pro"
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Thoughts.
Thanks.
DG

Okay,
I need to know. Is it my questions, or is this group restricted to FCP internal issues only. I'm always amazed that 25 people have viewed this type of question, but the wealth of experience doesn't toss just one pearl of wisdom.
I think this is FCP related, but perhaps the exporting closes the door on interest.
Let me down gently, as I'm fragile
DG

FCP/STP workflow suggestions

I am editing wedding video and although I am comfortable in FCP I have not incorporated STP into my workflow yet. My question is how best to do this. I have worked through a book to become familiar with STP, but it's the integration of the two that they spend too little time on. The scenario is I edit possibly hundreds of clips into a video in FCP and then send a sequence to STP as a multitrack project. Now, since I've done a multritrack project I have one of two options for getting the audio back to the FCP project.
1. I can either choose to export the audio as a sound file and then go back into FCP, mute all my existing audio, and then import the STP created audio file.
2. Send the whole thing to Compressor straight from STP.
My problem is I can do the whole edit in FCP, be happy with the results, do all the audio post production work, create the DVD, and then if the customer comes back wanting changes I suddenly have a dilemna. If they ask for just one clip to be modified/changed in FCP I essentially have to redo all of my Soundtrack Pro work again, don't I? I mean the original STP project is no longer valid because I've changed the source material it relies on, so it all my STP work need to be done again? Please tell me there is something I'm missing, a better way? It's a tough issue for me to wrap my head around because it seems no matter which option I use from above the issue of re-edits causes another issue. So, to clarify.
1. Which workflow from above would your recommend, export the audio and reintegrate to FCP or go straight to Compressor?
2. Any ideas on how to handle the re-edit issue? Is there an alternative workflow I haven't considered that makes re-edits easier to deal with in this scenario?
Thanks in advance.

The most honest answer your going to get is, it depends. If ingesting the whole interview into FCP and then looking at it works for you then fine. Do it that way. There are others who would have gone into the interview knowing what they wanted out of it and could tell what parts to use. Still another possibility is to sit down and play the clip in quicktime and take notes of what is of use and just ingest that. Still another way is, the get the interview transcribed (with TC note) and decide from the transcriptions what parts you want to use. Really kind of depends on you.
Sound tweaking. Hmm. got to go with it depends, again. What type of tweaking. Levels? Do them in FCP. Looking to get rid of an offensive sound (hum) do that in STP and do it to the whole clip before you start editing. Remember that almost anything you do to the sound won't actually make it better. A particular annoying thing can be minimized, but that doesn't make it sound better, that's done in the recording.
o| TOnyTOny |o

Workflow FCP to STP to Color efficiency

I was hoping someone with a bit more experience might be able to explain to me my limitations. I am trying to be as efficient as possible when working with Final Cut Studio.
Typically, I have been doing my edits in Final Cut Pro and then roundtripping to Soundtrack Pro and then finishing with a roundtrip from FCP to Color.
•Is there a way have 2 individuals - one work on STP and one work in Color - work at the same time on the same edited sequence after video edits have been made in FCP?
•Can I roundtrip the same sequence to both programs (STP and Color) at the same time and have 2 separate machines work on the same file?
I would love to be able to speed up my post production work. I do not have Final Cut Server; is there any way to do something like this?
Thanks!

Hi Jim,
Many thanks - this has helped a lot and I can now work on the audio with each clip and the resulting file size has gone down to a fraction of the original.
Any thoughts on the 2nd part of my question around audio tracks? As mentioned my Sony A1 seems to have captured two tracks and I need to discard one (the onboard mic). If I do this by simply deleting the 2nd Audio track in FCP when I open the track 1 in STP I can see it again. I guess by removing it from the FCP timeline does not result in removing the track from the referenced file that is sent to STP.
Tried converting tracks to mono in STP, saving and returning to FCP but then I get a 'reconnect missing media' error as the number of tracks has changed. When I reconnect it works fine (mono audio from both left and right) but the red \ through the file name audio symbol is still shown against the STP file name in the FCP browser. Suppose I can live with this but the red \ is probably telling me that I am doing something wrong!!
Thanks once again for the help so far,
Regards, Mike

FCP-compressor-NTSC/PAL workflow problems...

Hello there,
I'm writing this thread on behalf of a collegue of mine who is in a bit of a pickle... I've been on the phone to him all morning and i'm stumped...
He's just finished offline-editing a new feature film by Nicolas Roeg (walkabout, performance etc) and needs to churn out a DVD for viewing-update purposes, here is the tech info followed by the problem...
ok... so, in FCP he has the sequence and media at photoJPEG quality.
The editing timebase for the sequence is 24 fps.
The problem is that he wants to make a PAL DVD, but when he goes into Compressor, and applies the relevant settings, it always comes out as NTSC...?
I've been on the phone to him, and we've both had little test sequences open (only 10" long sequence) to talk through the work-flow, and as I'm not an advanced Compressor user, I can't find ANYTHING in preferences that sets the PAL/NTSC option.
I am under the impression that it is a FCP setting that actually maked the difference... ie, he is currently using photoJPEG, 24fps... which should (for a PAL DVD) be at 25fps, DV quality.
So how do we turn a photoJPEG 24fps sequence into a PAL 25fps file that can be squidged in Compressor to make a PAL DVD...
I hope I'm making sense... and HUGE thanks in advance for any help.
regards,
J

Perhaps do an intermediate first? The automatic settings in compressor are designed to choose which frame rate it thinks is best for you, so will make the wrong decision sometimes, in terms of your desired output. Try making a new mpeg2 setting, based on the preset for dvd, and change the frame rate to 25. It will then force it to pal 25. Or if it doesn't look great, change to a quicktime first with the same settings as your mate's sequence output, apart from the frame rate which you should force to 25. Then put this new movie back into compressor with the dvd setting.
Try it on a short clip first (a minute or so), then you won't waste time with something that isn't going to work.

Shared Project Workflow Problem: Hitting a Wall with Markers

Hi there,
Apologies in advance for the long note. We're using Adobe CC to edit and finish commercials and are having a significant issue regarding shared project workflow. First, some context:
We often edit projects remotely. When this happens, assistants and other editors who remain in LA will have access to the media on our SAN while the editor and assistant traveling out of town will have their own copy of the media. I know Adobe Anywhere would solve any issue relating to two identical sets of media in use in different cities, but we're a small shop and the hardware and software expense don't make sense for us at this time. Please do not respond to anything mentioned from here on by stating we should just get Adobe Anywhere. Thanks.
What will regularly happen is that the remote editor and assistant will need work done on the project here in LA while they're in session with the clients. Sometimes this work involves marking up clips with comment markers so the editor can more easily locate a specific moment. Here's where the problem arises.
Unlike FCP and Avid, Premiere handles markers within the clip's metadata. So, if I have two separate projects linking to separate but identical instances of media, one of those media instances gets updated with new markers, there is currently no way to get those markers to the other project without also shuttling the new marked-up media. This is not possible when a remote editor needs dailies marked up in a couple hours and is working across the country or abroad.
But let's assume for the sake of argument that it is possible and we apply this workflow. Let's also assume that in the time it takes the local assistant to mark up the clips for the remote editor, the editor has added a couple markers of his own, which is reasonable and happens all the time. Now when the editor links to the newly marked up clips he's received via shipment, he'll wipe out all the markers he's made on his own since giving the order to mark up the footage. That is a significant inconvenience, especially with clients in the room asking stuff like "can we look at the take where the guy says 'good' instead of 'great'?"
So what happens if we just have repeating sets of media, so that every time the clips markers get updated, the editor actually imports those clips, even though the picture and audio data in those clips is completely redundant to what's already in the project. The issues with this are, as I can see it, 1) increasing the amount complexity within the project so that you'd have to scan many bins of dailies to look for a single marker, 2) increasing by orders of magnitude the amount of storage space needed, 3) even if problems 1 and 2 are handled, if you have to go to finish with multiple versions of a cut, and those versions reference separate instances of the same clip from different bins, Premiere's dupe frame detection will not work and you'll need to spend a lot of extra time locating duplicate clips manually before sending your EDL or XML off to final color grading.
At this point, I think it's necessary to interject something: we're talking about markers here. Why is this such a problem? FCP and Avid have no such issues simply by making markers - even clip markers - part of the project metadata. From what I understand, Adobe has chosen to do things differently because of dynamic link, so that After Effects and Prelude, for example, could add markers to a clip and those markers would ripple across all instances of that clip in the different applications. It's a great feature which we take advantage of here from time to time.
So what's the solution?
My workaround in CS6, which does not solve the issue of needing to merge clip markers so that an editor's markers and an assistant's markers can be applied to a single piece of media, was to turn off "write XMP ID to Files on Import." This would generate an XMP sidecar file which could be easily passed along with a project file to the remote editor, who could then overwrite his local XMP sidecars with the new ones containing the new marker info.
However, in Premiere CC that is no longer possible. It appears that if Premiere CC can access the XMP ID on a file, it will not generate a sidecar regardless of what you have set in your media preferences. We use ProRes Proxy as our dailies format (again, please no comments on this, it is not up for debate at this time) and Premiere can get to the XMP ID within the files and will not, no matter what it seems, generate an XMP sidecar.
We could change the company workflow to use DNxHD 36 instead of ProRes Proxy, which would give us XMP sidecars, but that would not solve the issue of needing to merge marker lists between projects non-destructively.
The best solution I can think of would be to have a script or some kind or built-in feature which would allow for the batch export, import and merging of marker lists. This way Adobe could keep its current clip-metadata-based marker workflow while giving professional users needing more flexible marker behavior the ability to have assistants non-destructively modify clip markers without necessitating the creation of extra media or project complexity.
I would really love some input on this and ideas from the pro community out there who has experience with shared project workflows - especially projects being shared remotely. There's not a lot of info out there about this and it would be great to hear what others are doing.
Thanks a million for sticking with this, if you've made it this far.
Best,
Jon

Thanks Jim,
I understand that Adobe Anywhere solves this, but there should be this fairly basic functionality (which exists in Avid and FCP) in a non-enterprise edition of the software. I have submitted a couple different feature requests about this, going back to CS5, so hopefully enough people make similar requests for a fix to be implemented. Adobe Anywhere is really not a solution for our small shop as currently configured/priced, especially when we can have editors working remotely with very affordable USB 3 drives. The only hangup is the markers, which just isn't worth a 5 figure fix. As such it's hard to consider the problem solved for either us or any small shop or post crew.
Best,
Jon

FCP into STP missing Audio files

I have been working w/out STP for a couple of years now and have been getting by okay. Now I am looking to take advantage of STP "streamlined workflow"
I can't even bring my project succesfully into STP from FCP, majority of sound won't send into STP.
I believe it is some type of setting in FCP and or STP.(audio effects originaly exported from stp into fcp will cross apps, audio taken from tape will not, sony xd sound will not)
Any Ideas

• When you opened the Song, did it tell you that files were missing (in which case, it would give you the opportunity to search for them)?
• Did you Save the Song when you finished the recording session (because if not, it won't know you recorded anything new)?
• Did you record onto a removable hard drive?
• Did you delete Regions in the Arrange Window & choose the wrong option, thereby deleting the actual audio files themselves rather than just the Regions?
There are many, many ways to go from here, so answer these questions first & we'll take it from there. The more detail you can give, the easier it will be to find out what happened & what to do about it.

Help on FCP and STP

Hi James,
I tried to do what you said and it half works ! By sending one track at the time when I control-click the audio track I have now two options:
STP Audio File Project / STP Multitrack Project
I can also choose the - Open in Editor- option
The only problem is that the clip sent to STP for editing it's not the one I edited in FCP, but it's actually the master clip (much longer) !!!
Why ?!!!
Do I have to send both cips (L-R) and work on each of them separately ?
Instead if I want to edit the clip using a STP Script the pop up menu still doesn't give me the option to choose the script I want to use as there still isn't any submenu to choose from !
Thanks a lot
Stefano

Hi Stefano, When you control click and the menu opens do you scroll down the list until you find the STP selection, When you control click on the timeline all the external editors should appear in a menu and then a sub-menu with different choices for STP.
Brendan
G5 DP 2.7Ghz, FCP 5 Studio iBook 14 Mac OS X (10.4.2)

Media Offline when Exporting back to FCP from STP. Lesson 10 in APTS book.

Hello, I am going through the Apple Pro Training Series Book by Martin Sitter found a road block in Lesson 10. The topic is conforming at that seems to work decently (except for garbled text in the right side of the Conform tab). My issue is when trying to export back to FCP. I choose to Send Files to FCP sequence. A new sequence is created in the selected project as expected. The audio is fine, but instead of using the video from the correct sequence, it seems to be trying to use clips from the older sequence. Additionally, all the video clips show up as Media Offline. I can reconnect media, but the problem is that it is the wrong video sequence. Oddly, in STP the video looks perfect. Is there an error in the metadata? can this be fixed or prevented? Thank you

Barreltone,
I am exporting back into Final Cut Pro via Send to Sequence. I have been exporting from the browser of FCP (sequence), and not the timeline (clips). I'm going to try that tactic, and see if that works.
DG

FCP to STP workflow problems

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