FCP vs Media 100 Colour Space

I have a client who will not digitise material into FCP because he says that the colour space in his Media 100 system is far superior.
He is editing DV material via firewire to FCP and component analogue to Media 100, (yes I know the perils of going in via analogue from DV to a DV codec... but he insists...)
DV vs analogue arguments aside, is the colour space in Media 100 superior?
Actually, what is colour space? I get the concept, (just,) in Photoshop but is there a difference for editing systems.
I was once told that the DV encoding system was better in Avids than in FCP, but I'm unsure of the quality of my source information... So now I'm wondering if there is a difference on all edit systems.
Finally, if there is / isn't a difference in the DV codec, does it make a difference for uncompressed material.
Many thanks,
LEE

Here are some things to be aware of:
Media 100 picture size is either 640 x 480 or 720 x 486. DV picture size is 720 x 480. Those numbers don't convert easily. There will be jittery motions during pans and when people move. The only way to combat this is to make FCP use the D1 picture size of 720 x 486. My experience is this never looks good.
Everything that will be recompressed will have to go through the P6000 board of the Media 100. This takes FOREVER! It takes me 5 hours to encode a 1 hour DVD on my Media 100, which has 2 1GHz processors. My 700 MHz iMac at home encodes a 1 hour DVD in less time. The P6000 hardware slows encoding to other formats way down.
There is a difference from one codec to the next. But capturing in one Codec 1 and converting to Codec 2 to try to make up for poor quality of Codec 2 will not help. Codec 2's quality problems will still be there. It's the nature of Codec 2. Graeme is right in saying that it will ruin picture quality. On top of Codec 2's problems, you're adding a generation. It's like transferring from DV to Beta, and then recording Beta to VHS because the Beta quality is better than VHS, even when your final output is intended to be VHS. It makes more sense to go DV to VHS in the first place.
Unless you intend to edit on Media 100, there is no point in digitizing to it. Save the hassle, the time, the money, and the quality by keeping everything native DV. Have your client read these posts if he still won't budge. We are experienced in this field.
By the way, before anyone says anything about me comparing DV to VHS, that is not my intention. I threw obvious formats out there to show workflow orders and to give an analogy. DV is a very good codec. I will tell you that I like M100 better, but DV is not that far behind. I use DV at home, and I am very happy with the results. In fact, I was debating between M100 and FCP at home for my side business of wedding videos, and have decided to go the FCP route due to quality and cost efficiency. DV is not VHS quality. It is far beyond VHS. DV is far beyond DVD quality. I feel DV is above even Beta SP.

Similar Messages

  • Trying to compare FCP with Media 100 for a Public Access studio

    Hi all,
    I am new here. I do most of the review of products for our Public Access studio. We have a couple of existing Media 100 systems and we are considering adding or upgrading our NLE capabilities. Our studio manager had a chance to look at FCP being used at our high school and she came back with a number of impressions that I wonder about and would like to vet with people who know more about FCP. So, any comments would be helpful.
    The high school media person demo’d FCP for her and let her play with it a bit. After looking at it herself, she says she would definitely say Media 100 is easier to understand/use, especially if you've never used non-linear editing before. That is fairly typical of the people doing Public Access production in our town.
    However, it looks to her like there are a lot of tools that come with FCP that Media 100 either doesn't have or are not easily found in it. For example, she feels FCP’s set up looks more complicated and confusing compared to Media 100’s, but in FCP you can have up to 99 video lines in a program, where with Media 100 we're just going back and forth between the a and b video lines. Plus you can have up to 99 Audio tracks on FCP as well, where our max at the moment is 8. Now as to when you would need 99 video or audio tracks, she is not sure, but it is definitely a capability that we don't have in Media 100.
    Titling looked easier to her on Media 100. With FCP there were a lot of filters involved and hoops to jump through, plus she couldn't do a word with each letter a different color, for example, unless she did each letter on a different track.
    The media person warned her that FCP is really large. Apparently the program itself takes up like 35 GB of space on the hard drive, and a typical 30 min. project comes in at over 100 GB! She couldn't believe it, but she was assured it’s true. Even with our longest programs, like like a School Committee meeting thqat went 3 1/2 hours, it would came in at a max of 30 GB on the Media 100. She got the impression this big difference was so because Final Cut renders everything you do, including rendering any edits you make on your footage as new files, and stores it all in a huge folder. She thinks with Media 100, you import the footage and use it as is - the only things it will render are screen freezes, transitions, and color effects. Is that sort of comparison correct (and fair), or is something being missed?
    She says in her experience that something like iMovie is the most basic as far as what you can do, then Ulead would be a step above that- the editing is basically the same, but you have a few more options. Media 100 would be next as far as ease of use and understanding of the program. FCP seemed a little confusing even to her. Comments or insights?
    G4   Mac OS X (10.4.7)  

    Welcome to the family, maybe.
    I switched from M100 about four years ago, I was never so glad to give that company the boot. A direct comparison just isn't possible but I'll try to answer some questions. There is a Media 100 forum on creativecow.net.
    she says she would definitely say Media 100 is easier to understand/use, especially if you've never used non-linear editing before.< </div>
    Yes, absolutely, M100 has always had an elegant and refined interface. However, the paradigm in FCP is not opaque. It's far more interesting, deeper, more complex. So, yes, it's a bit tougher to grasp. But don't sell your students/users short. They'll get it.
    99 tracks is marketing BS. The serious work is done with nesting. How many public access pieces need more than 5 or 10 video tracks?
    Titling in FCP depends on third party filters like Boris or tools like LiveType and Motion. The basic titling tools in FCP are lame and difficult to use, in my opinion, compared to the elegant titler in M100 (as long as you don't launch Graffiti).
    The installation includes tens of gigs of animation, movie and music loop resources that you don't need to load. The suite includes Motion, LiveType, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro and FCP.
    If you're shooting DV, a 3-1/2 hour show is, umm, well, you look it up, DV is DV. But if you're capturing 3 hours from each of three cameras, that's a lot of DV.
    Rendering depends on lots of things. M100's native codec handles lots of realtime stuff that FCP can't unless you've got a huge Macintosh. Previewing is not a big deal at lower rez in FCP, you get used to it. .
    FCP is really scary. You can look at thousands of "I'm in way over my head, HELP!" posts here. But all those folks find they slip right into the Apple paradigm, the weirdly new workflow and start exploring the wide new world of serious editing that FCP opens up. You'll hate it for a few months because it's so dramatically different from M100. You'll love it, though.
    If you want to continue the thread, give the rest of the disaffected former M100 users a few days to post their comments. There are many of us here. Then maybe start a new thread, one question at a time.
    bogiesan

  • Comparing FCP and Media 100 file sizes

    Hi again,
    As suggested in the response to my prior question, one of the areas I could use help with for comparing FCP with our access studio's current Media 100 systems is the relative files sizes that can be expected with each. As I mentioned before, the feedback we got from our high school was that FCP seems to create very much larger working files than Media 100. Is that a fair comparison?
    As an example, if you have an hour of material on DV, how much disk space do you expect it to take on each of the systems when you bring it in for editing?
    (I suppose this gets back to what the normal working file formats are on both systems - I don't know)
    It seemed to be suggested that in the course of editing that possibly FCP created a lot more files (e.g. more disk space) than Media 100. Again is that fair, and to what degree?
    Thanks
    Bob
    G4   Mac OS X (10.4.7)  

    Well, not knowing how Media 100 captures this footage
    puts us at a disadvantage.
    Me too
    FCP captures DV at 13.64GB/hour. This is NATIVE
    resolution...no compression whatsoever. A simple
    file transfer.
    OK, that is a helpful start.
    Does Media 100 do this, or does it
    capture it using one of it's codecs?
    Not really knowing that is part of my problem. Media 100 started with analog video capture which must have used a codec, and which I think creates a proprietary compressed file format. I have to suspect that DV intake is converted to that same format. If I understand correctly the analog intake offers options for the compression level so the files sizes will vary, but my impression is that the common ones are considerably smaller than 13 GB/h.
    The main issue I am trying to get a handle on is that the feedback we got from the high school was that "a typical 30 min. project comes in at over 100 GB". By comparison we input a 3 1/2 hour tape on the Media 100 and use on the order of 30 GB - something like 8 GB/hour or 4 GB for a half hour. Comparing against that report from the school for FCP there seems to be some sort of disconnect that I am trying to resolve. One hint was the thought that maybe the 100 GB included additional working files beyond the basic input files - working files generated during editing I suppose. By comparison Media 100 seems to generate a minimal amount of extra files.

  • Exporting Lower Third from FCP for Media 100 use

    I'm exporting out a lower third for someone else to use in Media 100. It is set to alpha+RGB. The exported QT file has a black background that I assumed would be keyed out once brought in to Media 100 and layered over an interview, but it's all black. Is it something I'm doing wrong in FCP or on the other end in Media 100?
    Power Mac G5   Mac OS X (10.4.7)   Dual 2.7 GHZ 4 GB SDRAM

    You need to use the Animation Codec with colors set to Millions+ (the "+" is your alpha channel) also, you should make sure your lower third is not rendered.
    Patrick

  • Pixma Pro 100 Colour Space Questions

    Hi
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    7) Are colour space and calibration settings all about printing what you have on the screen or is it mainly for extra colour depth in the print ?.
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    Thomas
    Solved!
    Go to Solution.

    You can not set the printer to match the monitor.  You must set the monitor to match the printer.  But the printer is already calibrated by the factory.
    First, you must not let the printer set anything.  Turn off every bit off control it has.  You can do this with the Canon My Printer under the Printer Settings tab.  Do you know how?  I will guess, yes, for now but if you don't get back to me.
    Second, you need to have your photo editor (like Photoshop or Lightroom) handle all the print settings and color matching. You know how to do this? I prefer Photoshop and I use AdobeRGB color space.
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    Most people set their monitors too bright.
    You must get the gray-scale very close.  You need to get the brightness very close and you need the contrast very close.
    After you do these things you can make adjustments to your prints by just looking at your screen.  Because you know the monitor and printer are on the same level.  One more point, you can NOT get a printer to print every color exactly the way you see it.  It isn't possible as all colors and adjustments effect all others.  My goal is to get the skin tones right.  That is what people notice most. Remember you are dealing with two different disciplines here.  One is colored light and the other is colored dyes.  They are not the same thing.
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    All the Canon photo printers I have ever seen have this warm/magenta cast.  Canon engineers must prefer this look.  It can not be changed.  You need to "fix" it in post.
    Make sure you have the correct ICC profiles and you are using Canon brand ink and paper until you get good with the printer.  Very, very important, otherwise you don't know if the printer is doing exactly what you are telling it to or not.
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    EOS 1Ds Mk III, EOS 1D Mk IV EF 50mm f1.2 L, EF 24-70mm f2.8 L,
    EF 70-200mm f2.8 L IS II, Sigma 120-300mm f2.8 EX APO
    Photoshop CS6, ACR 8.7, Lightroom 5.7

  • Outputting to Media 100

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    Power Mac G5/dual 2.0   Mac OS X (10.4.5)  

    Karen,
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  • Convert Media 100 bin into FCP 4.5?

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    Thank you everyone for your responses. I figured it might be a hopeless cause but I thought I'd try anyway. I have tried to open the bins in word/text edit/etc but have come up empty. Actually, text edit opened it so that I could at least decipher some in/out points but it was such a gargled mess that it was useless.
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  • Media 100 QT/FCP transcoder

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    budakhan wrote:
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    That's not really what I meant, Media 100 was elegantly cool with a mature interface and it was very fun to use. The 2-track paradigm was a stupid marketing decision but the rest of it was great stuff.
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  • Export to Media 100?

    We have a unit here on our campus that uses a Media 100 system and will not give it up. We have been asked to provide them exported Quicktimes per their requirements (Photo JPEG, 720 x 486, etc.) and when we do, they have issues with the results. I'm wondering if I can download and install a Media 100 codec and apply it on the export from Final Cut, will that work? I've done this when working with an Avid Media Composer, which had a proprietary Avid codec, and I could export files out of After Effects using this codec. And the results were always great.
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    We run Media 100 & FCP at our facility.
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  • Which colour space for camera and LR

    Thanks for the answers to my last post about sharpening and workflow.
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    >sRGB should be good enough, but it's also good to hear you also shoot raw ... afterall, sRGB contains all of the color in most photographic images.
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  • After Effects rendering with Format MXF OP1a 1080i/25, XDCAM with colour space "HDTV (Rec. 709) 16-235" but after rendering the colour space is "30-217"

    Hello!
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    Thanks for your answer, but i don't know an Adobe Media Composer, you surely mean Adobe Media Encoder, or not? Anyway i do not find the option for colour space in Media Encoder, so i would be very thankful if you could tell me where to find it.

  • Colour space issues

    Hi,
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  • Which colour space for different displays

    Hi Everyone,
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    Stuart

    OK, then you should be all set and ready to go. Just work in Adobe RGB throughout.
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    Internet Explorer gets nothing right and is completely useless with wide gamut. Just ignore it.

  • Colour Space Change

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    Thanks
    Tim

    Hi mr. Pillow
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  • Media 100 to Final Cut Pro

    I need help, but don't we all.
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    Information you might want to know.
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    We have brainstormed about getting another system and making a direct copy but it doesn't seem > logical to buy an OS 9.0 system that is 10 years behind. Something with a future in mind should be > done.
    I shall gently suggest this is a dopey position for your accountants to take. You should be able to buy a used Media 100-equipped G3 or G4 for pennies on the dollar, less than your boss is going to spend taking these new clients to lunch once, even if you're not invited.
    Can't help you with the current product line, though; I have no idea what Boris's current version of M100 software will do with legacy files but it's $900-1,600, about the cost of two lunch dates with this new client of yours.
    bogiesan

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