HDV, AVCHD or What?

Well, it's July 2009. Assuming you have a powerful enough computer, does PPro CS4 easily support AVCHD? Or should I only look at HDV cameras?

Can you explain to me what the benefit of this approach is in comparison to just firewire?
Quality wise - Absolutely none and i have not even claimed that there is or should be any. I know all about "Once you have your shots on tape...". already and dont disagree on that.
If one has the need to work with uncompressed HD or with the Cineform codec i think the benifit is that i dont need to transcode the footage when the FireWire capture is done. Any MPEG2 can be frustrating to work with for many reasons so the ability to easy conform the media into another codec in real time during the HDMI/HD-SDI capture for a smoother editing experience is worth it sometimes. And, HDMI + FireWire, HD-SDI + FireWire or Component + FireWire keeps the original timecode in the captured file for easy frame accurate re-captures when/if needed.
Some people will disagree and some people will agree.
The actual video capture is done throught the HMDI/HD-SDI interface while the FireWire cable only carries the timecode and give the user the ability to control the camera/deck. (I dont know if any metadata is carried over since i never use it nor have the need for it...)
But again, there is no gain in picture quality. However, for post work with multiple render generations its a great benifit though as long as you avoid the Blackmagic Design Motion JPEG codec.
Btw, HDV is 1440x1080.
/R

Similar Messages

HDV & AVCHD

Quality-wise, is HDV superior to AVCHD?

+The reason for the question is in my experience shoots are always longer than you anticipate, tapes are easy to change and store. How easy is a hdd to replace?+
Alaskaman -- I don't think you can replace a hard disk that is filled. If it's filled, you are SOL until you capture it onto your Mac/PC and then erase the hard disk.
I don't know very much about AVCHD versus HDV except for what I read online. I don't have an AVCHD camcorder (using HDR-HC1). However, as others have pointed out, it goes beyond just the format.
For example, in my real life experience, I am still using the HDR-HC1 although I am looking to get a more "pro" camera. But that is another topic. Relevant to the present discussion is the fact that ALL of my friends/family who have gotten the newfangled hard disk or flash memory card based models sort of regret doing so because it is a lot of hassle for them to have to get the video out, when their storage fills up. And they don't always have time to do so.
The problem is, when you've got an event to shoot, or a vacation to go onto, and you are out of storage, what do you do? Buy a new camcorder?! Buy *yet another* memory card/stick? Try to upgrade the hard disk yourself without waiting for technical services to do so?
With a miniDV tape system, I just buy another pack of 5 tapes. Cheap storage that I can archive.
Don't get me wrong; I would enjoy the speed of not having to play tape to capture video into my Mac, but that cam would definitely be a secondary cam and not a primary, and I would probably only record B-roll with that (the way I do with my photo camera sometimes in video mode).

AVCHD projects - what format to export?

Hi
The AVCHD project setting seems to work well with material I've shot on a little Canon HF100. However, I don't seem to be able to export back out to the AVCHD format. Is that correct? Is it not an option? What are my options for HDTV quality export? H264 Blu-Ray or MPEG-2 Blu-Ray. Is that it? HDV doesn't seem to be an option either. Can I export to a HDV deck?
thks

I have recently started using a Canon HG20. Using Premiere CS4 I mixed HDV footage from a SONY A1U in the timeline. The HDV was captured using a SONY HVR-M25U deck. After some testing, I was able to use Adobe Media Encoder to export the timeline as MPEG2 1440 X 1080i, with pixels at 1.33 and used the high quality setting. Then I imported the new file into an HDV sequence and exported it back to the HDV deck. I was able to check the file before exporting to tape this way. I had to make 2 small corrections which I think was related to my using 24 bit AVCHD. They were both panning shots.
I hope this helps.
Lynn

Original HDV/AVCHD vs AppleTV picture quality

I've read several posts where people complained about iMovie's AIC and AppleTV's HD quality. I have HD cable and a very nice 1080i TV, but with home movies I'm use to standard def DV (edited in iMovie and burned to DVD). I've shot with HDV and AVCHD, played them directly on the HDTV and certainly had the "wow" factor.
So the question is, once I take the HD original footage, import it into iMovie, save it for AppleTV and play it back on the same HDTV, how much of that wow factor will be lost? Will someone say "looks nice, is that hi-def? Or will they stare at amazement and say "me got to have that!"

There are several factors to take into account here.
Firstly the AVCHD as you know will be converted to AIC, AIC isn't uncompressed but it is pretty close so at this stage I doubt you will see any degradation (as much as you like your HD cam, remember it's a consumer camera, so in terms of quality it's not the best to start with).
There isn't really very much you can do with AIC due to its huge file size (data rate will be somewhere around 80/100 Mbps), so consider it an intermediate codec.
After editing you have your choice of conversions. You could export it out at full 1080 resolution at a relatively high datarate, because the video is being converted there will be some degradation but again you are not likely to notice this.
The tv will not however play these files and they will need further reduction in resolution and data rate. What these reductions are depends on whether you are using PAL or NTSC, for PAL you can export to 1280 x 720 @ 25 fps and a datarate of 5 Mbps, NTSC will be 960 x 540 @ 30 fps and a datarate of 5 Mbps. If you are using imovies tv preset, PAL will be exported also at 960 x 540, you'll need to use the manual settings to achieve 1280 x 720.
While the difference in quality after conversion for the tv, may well be noticeable, in my opinion it's certainly acceptable.
On the other side of things, if you want to edit your movies you are going to have to convert from AVCHD, tools for editing this format are effectively non existent. The PS3 and x-box may well play movies exported to 1080 at higher datarates than the tv, but handling such files becomes difficult. They are relatively large and will soon fill up the device, I doubt the PS3/x-box will handle streaming of these files very well. Delivery of full quality HD is still pretty much limited.
Finally. consider also your TV, although it accepts 1080 does it have an effective pixel display of 1920 x 1080, if it doesn't it may well be that the effects of such conversions are not as noticeable as if it did.

HDV & AVCHD independent of PAL and NTSC?

When purchasing a HDV or AVCHD camcorder do I need to care about PAL and NTSC standards?

Firstly, as pointed out in your other thread, you won't be able use it with iMovie 6.
PAL is what we use in Europe. NTSC is used in the USA. iMovie can import both.

Importing video from Sony HDR-CX410 FCP 6.0.6 will not recognise AVCHD files. what is the solution?

First I have to admit I'm not technical in any way so I'm easily confused so please forgive me if my question sounds unprofessional.
The computer is a Mac desk top tower with Lion OS x 2x2.66 GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon with an internal hard drive plus a number of remote hard drives.
I'm using Final cut pro 6.0.6 to edit video.
The question is, up until now I've been using material shot on mini DV tapes, then digitised into the computer via the camera. As this format is getting long in the tooth I decided to get one of the latest DVCAM cameras, I went for the Sony HDR-CX410.
It was not until I had purchased the camera & shot a few test seq. & then tried to down load into the computer that I found out that Final cut does not recognise the AVCHD files on the SD card.I've tried importing from the camera as well as a card reader with no result.
I've looked at a number of sites including Apple support community where it looks like this is a major issue for many people but I can't find anyone who is using the same camera. I wondered if this issue is something you have covered in the magazine, if so please let me know which copy, if not can you help in any way. It appears that Final cut proX may be able to translate the AVCHD files but I'm not sure. Am I right in thinking that if I do upgrade to FCPX I will still have to convert the files, if so would you recommend a suitable software program. Is there any reason why Apple make it so difficult to edit this AVCHD format when all the latest cameras are using it, perhaps its time to change back to a PC?

Eric,
FCP 6.0.2 (compared to previous version) comes with the latest improvement and support for AVCHD.
However, here is a suggestion:
In Log&Transfer (top frame) on the right of *search field* there are three buttons, click on the one showing a little arrow-down and a sort of little star. Choose preferences then in the *transcode to* section click on those two tiny arrows pointing one up and the other down and choose Apple Intermediate Codec. Can you now transfer? (Add selection to queue)
Once again 6.0.2 might provide better support for your camera.
Use the search tool for more info.
G.
PS. Please note that some people have had problems with 6.0.2 so get us much info as you can before updating.

HDD vs. HDV capturing. What produces better quality

I currently shoot for content in SD on mini DV tapes. I want to upgrade to a camera with either a 3 ccd or ? I have read alot about what is available but i am very confussed as to what format or camera I should purchase. I want to stay in the affordable range ($900 to $1,500) but want to know if capture to a HDD or should I continue to capture on Mini DV? Any help would be appreciated.

HDD stores the data on a Hard Drive instead of tape BUT it does not record in the DV format.
Instead it uses a version of MPEG which is not quite as good quality as it is compressed many times more.
However, the main problem is that FCE/FCP can't use MPEG natively so you have to find some other expensive or time consuming way of converting your footage before you can edit it.
Ian.

AVCHD in, what now?

I've upgraded to 4.0.1 so I can import (log and transfer) my AVCHD clips, edit and I see there are a few options for exporting to HD, but with no bluray I'm trying to find a way to export to AVCHD and burn to a dvd to play in a bluray player that will play AVCHD files.
Does anyone have a workflow that works?
Message was edited by: RoryMac

Dual Layer (DVD-DL = BD-9) will give roughly double DVD capacity and is about half way between BD-5 (BD on DVD) and BD, and you still don't need BD burner. I managed to put 80 minutes on BD-9. The capacity really depends on "compressibility" of the footage. Black or white screen needs almost nothing, panning video is not too bad, ice hockey with the camera zooming, panning and lot of motion including audience in the background moving needs a lot of bandwidth and disc space, it is hard to compress - not too much repetition frame to frame. Mpeg compression counts on repetition and motion vectors (macroblocks shifting around, but otherwise same) a lot, to save bandwidth/file size.

Best quality for output Shooting HDV and DV What is better

I am shooting commercials for local cable. I have a sony fx1 HDV. it shoots 16x9.
The cable Co only accepts dvc pro tapes or mini DV tapes.
I have been shooting in DV mode and importing as firewire basic. (is that correct?)
when I output to tape it plays on any 4x3 tv like everyone is tall.... If I go in and adjust distortion to -33.3 it looks fine. Looks widescreen on 4x3 and widescreen on a widescreen flat panel.
Isn't there a preset so I do not have to adjust all of this?
Also would I have better quality if I shot in HDV and imported that way then just drug the edited product to a firewire basic dv sequence for output?
any input appreciated

Also would I have better quality if I shot in HDV and imported that way then just drug the edited >product to a firewire basic dv sequence for output?
If you have the option to shoot in HDV, do it every time unless there is an overriding need.
Firewire Basic is wrong for 16:9 stuff. Use a DV Anamorphic Easy Setup. Which one depends on the video standard or the camera and the cameras audio setting.
Can you provide these?
You may want to read this thread, emphasis on field order:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1974650&tstart=0
Al

Cannot create HDV, AVCHD or Cineform sequence

Hi,
I think this came with last patch my colaborator and I can't create HDV, AVHD or Cineform sequence on one of his machine; just DV.
Any idea how to fix this ?
Vista 64 Ultimate
fresh install
updated to last PP CS4 patch
Thank you.

Seriously, the problem is with your preferences.
On Vista do this:
Navigate to C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Premiere Pro\4.0 and delete (or drag to Desktop) the entire 4.0 folder. It will get rebuilt on the next PPro CS4 launch.
On XP do this:
Navigate to C:\Documents and Settings\[username]\Application Data\Adobe\Premiere Pro\4.0 and delete (or drag to Desktop) the entire 4.0 folder.
On Mac do this:
Navigate to Users/[username]/Documents/Adobe/Premiere Pro/4.0 and delete (or drag to Desktop) the entire 4.0 folder.
Next, navigate to Users/[username]/Library/Preferences and delete the file com.Adobe.Premiere Pro.4.0.plist
Be aware that on the PC the paths above point to hidden folders. So you may need to enable "Show hidden files and folders" in folder options. If you're not sure how to do this, check the Windows help files. Once you've deleted or moved these files, launch Premiere Pro 4.1 again. You should now see the missing presets and editing modes.
This is new behavior for Premiere Pro CS4. If the preferences indicate that there's something wrong with an importer, it blocks access to the importer and the presets. This was behavior that I saw fairly regularly during the beta cycle of the 4.1 update. It sounds like a few of you have run into it as well.

CPUs for HDV/AVCHD editing

I am starting to put together my system, piece by piece (I am cheap so i wont buy till I find it on sale)
I have read on this forum alot about the i7 920 being the best cpu to get.
As I have spoken to some of the retailers (only one who seem to know what they are talking about)
They have mentioned i7 is last years technology and that video editors
like it because it can be greatly over clocked.
But since its last years news what about the i5 (this years news).
It is less powerful?
I have been told it cant be over clocked, is that a feature Intel purposefully removed since it has the
power and doesnt need to be over clocked?
What about AMD Phenom?

In my opinion it is. The i7-870 is pretty expensive in comparison to the 920. This is of course offset by the mobo price (P55 are a lot cheaper than X58 boards, but more limited in both PCI-e expansion, graphics capabilities and memory capabilities, not to consider Gulftown capabilities).
I still have to see i7-870 benchmark results, but take into consideration that my system, which is based on a i7-920, holds the top position on the http://www.passmark.com/baselines/top.html list with a score of 6055, that my same system running at only 3441 MHz holds rank 9 with a score of 4623 on that same list (see BL# 106949), which leaves all the other systems running at 4000+ MHz in the dust, further consider my top position at the PPBM4 list and I think that I can safely say that I have a pretty decent system and if I were to build a new system today, I would not change anything relevant today, despite that my system is already 6 months old. Maybe a Noctua NH-14 cooler instead of the NH-12 I have, or some SuperMicro disk cages. But that is all.
Look at the results below to see how my system performs in comparison to others, and you may be convinced:
This is at a clock speed of 3441 MHz

Forget your HD, HDV, AVCHD, Blu ray, HDDV, this is the way forward

http://stage6.divx.com/TV-Ads-Time-Machine/video/1322072/Kodak-B&W-6?cid=S6H -nl081007

hey there Da Nam,
that was great! & films from 100 years ago are still playable. the highest def & best archive. i still have a projector & cam from when i was a kid starting to make home movies on Super 8.

AVCHD - professional or what?

Here goes nothing....
I am / was considering buying a new Panasonic AG- AF100 for some of my projects.
What scares me is ... AVCHD as a format when it comes to be edited.
I will be undertaking extensive tests (shoot and workflow) before I purchase but...my limited experience with AVCHD is not good.
NB: I have never edited any AVCHD that I shot myself yet.
As recent as today I have been editing some AVCHD footage supplied by a client from his Am Cam Canon. It was horrendous to work with and confirms my suspicions that PPRO does not seem to "enjoy" monitoring it. (Source / Program)
Note: the ******* bought and uses a NTSC camera in PAL Land and I had 29.xx frame rates. Us Pal landers aint used to that crap! I did edit in a matched sequence ...BTW ...in case you wondered.
Unlike DVCPRO HD ..the small amount of AVCHD I have edited has proven to be a less than desireable editing experience especially once FX or CC are applied. (MB Looks did not want to know about it for some reason)
MB Misfires were o.k but took an eternity to render.
I do not want a workflow that includes transcoding. I want the silky smooth "butter" like clips I edit and export currently . (DVCHD Pro / avi / mov/ Pro res)
Any pro editors here working with AVCHD and what are your experiences in a pro workflow. (eg Broadcast, FX, CC, Compositing, After Effects etc..)
Note:. I am not talking YouTube or home movie production here. I am seriously looking for the possible gotchas with this format and they tend to display when you get to a certain level where the quality is monitored and specced..

I would consider myself a professional, and I do use AVCHD to some extent (I've got a b-camera that records in AVCHD).
As several other posters have said, if you're just doing a simple cut up of the footage and editing something together, AVCHD works fine. It's when you try to start doing other things that you run into problems, and here's why:
There are basically two types of encoding algorithms: one is called inter-frame, and the other is called intra-frame. In intra-frame encoding (the type used in DVCPRO-HD, JVCPRO-HD, and XDCAM-HD, among others), each frame of material is encoded separately, meaning that as you work with the footage, each frame can be dealt with on its own. The file sizes are typically bigger, but the quality is much higher. Inter-frame encoding (the type used in AVCHD and others) uses what is called a Group of Pictures (or GOP) where, typically ever six frames, you have one frame that is encoded at its full resolution. The intermediate frames aren interpreted based on the full frame (or I-frame) which falls every six frames (basically the same thing as tweening). What this means, is that if your cut happens to fall in the middle of a six-frame GOP, all six frames have to be decoded and analyzed by your NLE before anything can be done, adding to the slowness of your system. It also means that in order for any FX to be applied, each GOP has to be broken down into individual frames, and finally re-encoded back into the GOPs. Interframe encoding is a horrible spec, slows down every NLE (even the mightiest of computers), and was really meant for the home-movie enthusiast who simply records, copies to the computer, does some basic edits (maybe) and then burns to a DVD. It wasn't really designed for use in professional cameras. However, the small file size has become so popular, that professionals are attempting to use it to save on space. Read the Wiki article on inter frame encoding for some more information and diagrams of how this all works.
There's a little bit of the tech speak on it, here are some of the real-world results I see on a day-to-day basis:
Color correction sucks. It's really really hard to make my AVCHD b-cam footage match anything else--HDV, DVCPRO-HD, RED, Canon 7D... anything. I've found that it typically has a distinctive yellow tint to it (may just be my camera, but there is no way to manually adjust the K white balance) which usually cannot be removed in post.
Fast pans or recording of any sort of action (especially if recording in any of the interlaced modes) really sucks. You can see some pretty bad interlacing artifacts in your footage, and you get what has been termed the "jello-effect" of the GOP as it "tweens" between every six frames and so you get a leaning effect of vertical objects in a pan (buildings, trees, people, etc.)
Encode times are typically three to four times longer than footage that's compressed using and Intraframe codec.
I'm guessing this is also due to the GOP thing and the frequency of the light spectrum), but under most lighting conditions (basically anything except the sun or incandescent around 3200K), I get a really bad "pulsing" effect to my image which sometimes disappears after encoding to a final format, and sometimes it doesn't.
Using the motion effect to increase the size of the image at all ("zoom-in in post") ends up giving me really crappy, blocky-looking footage.
For that form-factor, you could pick up JVC's GY-HM100U for half the price of the Panny. I'm about to pull the trigger on it's big brother, the GY-HM700U, which can be had for $2k more than the Panny. Both of those cameras use the much better Intra-frame encoding algorithms. And keep in mind, the Panny doesn't come with lenses, either, so unless you've already got lenses to fit that camera, you've got more cost that's gonna eat up your budget. If you want interchangeable lenses, the GY-HM700U can do any 1/3" bayonet lens, and can be adapted for any 1/2" or 2/3" bayonet lens.
Good luck!

AVCHD or HDV for your Editing?

Hi,
when come to the Editing stage, which is the format that you work pretty well and easier, HDV or AVCHD?

what media are you using? solid sate? (non-tape)?
I use use HDV (SONY V1E) and AVCHD (CANON HF100) but edit both in ProRes. ProRes is a very high quality editing codec, up to about 145Mb/s or 225Mb/s (HQ) which is going to be way more than your source footage. You can only ingest material as ProRes not ProRes (HQ).. but this wont be an issue as mentioned above.
Once your material is ingested FCP will auto detect your sequence settings once you start to place your clips in the timeline.
Tip (slightly off topic): Check your sequence Render settings: bit depth, if you are working with high qulaity graphics or serious about colour correction best to use the higher 10bit setting (from 8bit or RGB), and set your render quality to BEST (from Normal).

Mixing AVCHD video with hdv in a project

I recently purchased the Sony HXR-NX5U AVCHD and CS5. I am getting used to both. I have the Sony z7u which records in HDV format. What is the logical workflow to combine footage into one project without losing much image quality (ie. can I combine on a timeline?).
Thanks,
Lisa

Excellent, quick answer too!
Thanks,
Lisa

HDV, AVCHD or What?

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