How to set up printers using wired ethernet without appletalk

Curse of Snow Leopard. I've spent an hour or more reading posts to no avail. I have a couple of macs on a wired ethernet network and a couple of older printers. Everything was a breeze to set up using Appletalk but now that I have a nice new Mac Pro and OS 10.6 I'm stuck.
Can someone walk me through this process step by step? Or point me to instructions I can understand? I know the printer IP addresses. I know that for the computers I'm using DHCP which I vaguely know has something to do with the internet. I get that these addresses change and that's bad for sending to a printer. I do not get how to change the printer addresses--they are programmed in to the hardware in both (old--from the '90s). I also don't have a clue what the difference is between IP printer, LPD printer, etc. I can get the system to see the printers and I can set them up but nothing prints. Yes, I could use a print server running an older OS with Appletalk but I'd really like not to have to--power, heat, noisy fans, more boxes and monitors in my workspace.

Well, I suggest you do some experimenting - try IP > HP Jetdirect protocol instead of LPD (Jetdirect doesn't require a queue name).
I have seen other queue name possibilities mentioned on the web - PS (means send to the postscript queue), PCL (means send to the PCL queue), and text (means send to an unfiltered text queue).
text may be a good first try for queue name - to see if anything will work.
Have you tried pinging that IP address to make sure it is right? Is your computer's IP address in that same subnet 192.168.1.xxx?

Similar Messages

  • How to set-up and use FAMILY Sharing

    Can someone please explain to me in detail how to set-up and use FAMILY Sharing, none of the information I have so far found in the documentation helps at all, in fact it puts you in a constant loop giving the same information over and over again
    We have quite a few devices from ipads, iphones and ipods and I need to set-up Family Sharing.
    We have our main Apple ID which is linked to our Payment method, I have now got my son a new iPad, I have created his Apple ID and set-up a link via FAMILY Sharing to our main Apple ID.
    From what I read we should be able to share our purchased Apps between family members.
    So I figured I would be able to get the Apps now via iTunes that are part of the FAMILY Sharing, however when I go into ITunes (latest version downloaded yesterday) I can only see the Home sharing menu item not FAMILY Sharing, so I cannot work out in Itunes how to get Apps that are FAMILY shared.  So ok I will try and get Apps directly via the Ipad using the App Store.  To test it is working I look for a known paid for App, I then go to download it and it is now asking me to pay for it again. 
    Can someone please explain to me in detail how FAMILY Sharing is supposed to work and how I get it to work please.
    Thanks for your help
    Greg

    Hey GregWr,
    Thanks for the question. The following resources provides some of the best information regarding Family Sharing. Included, you’ll find information on making sure the accounts are set to "Share my purchases”, as well as information on downloading Family Member purchases from the iTunes Purchased section. Please note that some applications are not shareable.
    Sharing purchased content with Family Sharing - Apple Support
    http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201085
    Which purchased content can I share using Family Sharing - Apple Support
    http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203046
    If you don't see your family's shared content - Apple Support
    http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201454
    Thanks,
    Matt M.

  • How to set up shared use of "Contacts" data w/ 2 individual user accounts?

    How to set up shared use of application "Contacts" data for two individual user accounts?

    Link the contacts in one user account to a online cloud based system like Google or apples iCloud and then link the second user to that same online account. This could cause some slight problems if both people maintain their own online account to either of those systems on a phone or pad.

  • How to set proxy authentication using java properties at run time

    Hi All,
    How to set proxy authentication using java properties on the command line, or in Netbeans (Project => Properties
    => Run => Arguments). Below is a simple URL data extract program which works in absence of firewall:
    import java.io.*;
    import java.net.*;
    public class DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy {
       public static void main (String[] args) {
          URL u;
          InputStream is = null;
          DataInputStream dis;
          String s;
          try {
              u = new URL("http://www.yahoo.com.au/index.html");
             is = u.openStream();         // throws an IOException
             dis = new DataInputStream(new BufferedInputStream(is));
             BufferedReader br = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(dis));
          String strLine;
          //Read File Line By Line
          while ((strLine = br.readLine()) != null)      {
          // Print the content on the console
              System.out.println (strLine);
          //Close the input stream
          dis.close();
          } catch (MalformedURLException mue) {
             System.out.println("Ouch - a MalformedURLException happened.");
             mue.printStackTrace();
             System.exit(1);
          } catch (IOException ioe) {
             System.out.println("Oops- an IOException happened.");
             ioe.printStackTrace();
             System.exit(1);
          } finally {
             try {
                is.close();
             } catch (IOException ioe) {
    }However, it generated the following message when run behind the firewall:
    cd C:\Documents and Settings\abc\DnldURL\build\classes
    java -cp . DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy
    Oops- an IOException happened.
    java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused
    at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.socketConnect(Native Method)
    at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.doConnect(PlainSocketImpl.java:305)
    at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.connectToAddress(PlainSocketImpl.java:171)
    at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.connect(PlainSocketImpl.java:158)
    at java.net.Socket.connect(Socket.java:452)
    at java.net.Socket.connect(Socket.java:402)
    at sun.net.NetworkClient.doConnect(NetworkClient.java:139)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.openServer(HttpClient.java:402)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.openServer(HttpClient.java:618)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.<init>(HttpClient.java:306)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.<init>(HttpClient.java:267)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.New(HttpClient.java:339)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.New(HttpClient.java:320)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.New(HttpClient.java:315)
    at sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection.plainConnect(HttpURLConnection.java:510)
    at sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection.connect(HttpURLConnection.java:487)
    at sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection.getInputStream(HttpURLConnection.java:615) at java.net.URL.openStream(URL.java:913) at DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy.main(DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy.java:17)
    I have also tried the command without much luck either:
    java -cp . -Dhttp.proxyHost=wwwproxy -Dhttp.proxyPort=80 DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy
    Oops- an IOException happened.
    java.io.IOException: Server returned HTTP response code: 407 for URL: http://www.yahoo.com.au/index.html
    at sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection.getInputStream(HttpURLConnection.java:1245) at java.net.URL.openStream(URL.java:1009) at DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy.main(DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy.java:17)
    All outgoing traffic needs to use the proxy wwwproxy (alias to http://proxypac/proxy.pac) on port 80, where it will prompt for valid authentication before allowing to get through.
    There is no problem pinging www.yahoo.com from this system.
    I am running jdk1.6.0_03, Netbeans 6.0 on Windows XP platform.
    I have tried Greg Sporar's Blog on setting the JVM option in Sun Java System Application Server (GlassFish) and
    Java Control Panel - Use browser settings without success.
    Thanks,
    George

    Hi All,
    How to set proxy authentication using java properties on the command line, or in Netbeans (Project => Properties
    => Run => Arguments). Below is a simple URL data extract program which works in absence of firewall:
    import java.io.*;
    import java.net.*;
    public class DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy {
       public static void main (String[] args) {
          URL u;
          InputStream is = null;
          DataInputStream dis;
          String s;
          try {
              u = new URL("http://www.yahoo.com.au/index.html");
             is = u.openStream();         // throws an IOException
             dis = new DataInputStream(new BufferedInputStream(is));
             BufferedReader br = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(dis));
          String strLine;
          //Read File Line By Line
          while ((strLine = br.readLine()) != null)      {
          // Print the content on the console
              System.out.println (strLine);
          //Close the input stream
          dis.close();
          } catch (MalformedURLException mue) {
             System.out.println("Ouch - a MalformedURLException happened.");
             mue.printStackTrace();
             System.exit(1);
          } catch (IOException ioe) {
             System.out.println("Oops- an IOException happened.");
             ioe.printStackTrace();
             System.exit(1);
          } finally {
             try {
                is.close();
             } catch (IOException ioe) {
    }However, it generated the following message when run behind the firewall:
    cd C:\Documents and Settings\abc\DnldURL\build\classes
    java -cp . DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy
    Oops- an IOException happened.
    java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused
    at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.socketConnect(Native Method)
    at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.doConnect(PlainSocketImpl.java:305)
    at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.connectToAddress(PlainSocketImpl.java:171)
    at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.connect(PlainSocketImpl.java:158)
    at java.net.Socket.connect(Socket.java:452)
    at java.net.Socket.connect(Socket.java:402)
    at sun.net.NetworkClient.doConnect(NetworkClient.java:139)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.openServer(HttpClient.java:402)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.openServer(HttpClient.java:618)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.<init>(HttpClient.java:306)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.<init>(HttpClient.java:267)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.New(HttpClient.java:339)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.New(HttpClient.java:320)
    at sun.net.www.http.HttpClient.New(HttpClient.java:315)
    at sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection.plainConnect(HttpURLConnection.java:510)
    at sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection.connect(HttpURLConnection.java:487)
    at sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection.getInputStream(HttpURLConnection.java:615) at java.net.URL.openStream(URL.java:913) at DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy.main(DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy.java:17)
    I have also tried the command without much luck either:
    java -cp . -Dhttp.proxyHost=wwwproxy -Dhttp.proxyPort=80 DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy
    Oops- an IOException happened.
    java.io.IOException: Server returned HTTP response code: 407 for URL: http://www.yahoo.com.au/index.html
    at sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection.getInputStream(HttpURLConnection.java:1245) at java.net.URL.openStream(URL.java:1009) at DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy.main(DnldURLWithoutUsingProxy.java:17)
    All outgoing traffic needs to use the proxy wwwproxy (alias to http://proxypac/proxy.pac) on port 80, where it will prompt for valid authentication before allowing to get through.
    There is no problem pinging www.yahoo.com from this system.
    I am running jdk1.6.0_03, Netbeans 6.0 on Windows XP platform.
    I have tried Greg Sporar's Blog on setting the JVM option in Sun Java System Application Server (GlassFish) and
    Java Control Panel - Use browser settings without success.
    Thanks,
    George

  • How to set up and use AirPlay

    How to set up and use AirPlay

    Welcome to the Apple Community.
    AirPlay; When watching suitable content on the iPad, tap the screen to bring up the controls, tap the AirPlay icon and select the Apple TV. The content will then stream to the Apple TV.
    Mirroring; Double tap the home screen button, swipe the application panel to the right, tap the AirPlay icon and choose the Apple TV. The iPad screen will then be streamed to the Apple TV.

  • How to set unequal columns using master pages in InDesign CS3?

    How to set unequal columns using master pages in InDesign CS3?

    I don't have CS3 anymore but I don't think this has substantially changed in the last few versions of InDesign.
    Choose View > Grids & Guides > uncheck Lock Column Guides. Then drag the column guides to the position you want.

  • How to set air port extremem 802.11n without cd?

    How to set air port extremem 802.11n without cd?

    What computer do you have?  What operating system is it using?

  • How do I create and use a ringtone without syncing and without jailbreaking?

    How do I create and use a ringtone without syncing and without jailbreaking?

    You create ringtones on your computer and sync them to your iphone.
    You can buy ringtones from the ringtones section (at the bottom of the screen when you open itunes) of the itunes app on your iphone.
    There may be apps that will do this - not sure.

  • How to set-up printers in Snow Leopard???

    I installed Snow Leopard (10.6) on one of my full backup external La Cie Hard Drives. It took about an hour to install-- and everything seems fine-- I enjoy the slider in windows to get icons to 512 size.
    OK BUT how to set-up my ethernet connected Apple LaserWriter 12/640PS (about 1997 vintage) and my Canon Pixma i4000R printers? They work GREAT in Leopard 10.5.8 - but I can't even find them in the Print/Fax System Preference when I start in Snow Leopard. And I don't know where to go nor what to do to find the drivers etc. etc. etc. I choose to install ALL printer drivers when I did the set-up of SL.
    It was kinda automatic with 10.5 - but with 10.6 - just nothing. It finds my Canon SCANNER- but no printers...
    Thanks for any comments here -- glad I've kept leopard on my internal MacBook HD!
    Steve

    Stephen Schulte2 wrote:
    I installed Snow Leopard (10.6) on one of my full backup external La Cie Hard Drives. It took about an hour to install-- and everything seems fine-- I enjoy the slider in windows to get icons to 512 size.
    OK BUT how to set-up my ethernet connected Apple LaserWriter 12/640PS
    That's an AppleTalk device. You would need to set it to use TCP/IP via DHCP. See <http://support.apple.com/kb/TA21790?viewlocale=en_US> and similar. Good luck.
    (about 1997 vintage) and my Canon Pixma i4000R printers?
    Canon released a driver for that device in June this year. I'd see if that fixes your problem, or if it doesn't, I'd contact Canon tech support.
    They work GREAT in Leopard 10.5.8 - but I can't even find them in the Print/Fax System Preference when I start in Snow Leopard. And I don't know where to go nor what to do to find the drivers etc. etc. etc. I choose to install ALL printer drivers when I did the set-up of SL.
    It was kinda automatic with 10.5 - but with 10.6 - just nothing. It finds my Canon SCANNER- but no printers...
    Thanks for any comments here -- glad I've kept leopard on my internal MacBook HD!
    Steve

  • Can't browse web (outbound HTTP port 80) using wired Ethernet

    I just purchased a new 20" Core 2 Duo iMac today (Leopard installed) and I'm seeing a very strange problem: I can't browse the web using a wired Ethernet connection. Here are the specifics:
    - When I set up wireless ethernet w/ Airport, it works fine (outbound port 80 access is successful)
    - Going back to wired ethernet, when I pop down into a shell, I notice that outbound FTP (port 25), outbound SSH on port 15554 works fine. When I run curl (text-based web browser), it hangs. This tells me that its only port 80 that's giving me problems and nothing else. The network connection in general is fine.
    This tells me the following:
    - wireless ethernet is working fine
    - wired ethernet mostly works - all outbound TCP ports that I've tested work great. Its just the HTTP/Web port 80 that seems to be blocked.
    I went into the Security area and under Firewalls, it appears that the default configuration is set up to allow just about anything out and in.
    This is so bizzare - I thing as far as networking goes, the web access is the most important one, so I can't see Apple disabling this somehow. What gives??
    Earlier, I had set up a few user accounts for the rest of the family and set up Parental Controls on my two kids accounts. When I started noticing the outbound web access issues, I even went as far as deleting all the accounts to try to return the system as close as possible to how i received it.
    Anyone have any ideas why my outbound web access is blocked?
    Thanks,
    Ben

    I am not sure what the fix is but let me give it a try here for you. (Making sure edit works with questions 1,2,3)
    1. What version of ColdFusion Builder are you running. Are you sure you are running Beta 3?
    2. Can you access these files from your explorer window?
    3. Are you using RDS to connect to these files or the file system? (should be able to do both but that might be helpful to know which is failing.)
    4. Now the final question... by browse you might have a different issue. What version of CF server are you running? This might not be the issue but again could be if you are running developer version. If not an issue let me know and will try to hook up with you via connect to do an online screen share and help you out here.

  • How can I share printers using a non apple router, imac to ipad?

    Newbie in osx, but experienced in linux.
    My new imac has 3 printers setup for sharing, but ipad 2 / iphone 4 fail to see them.  I am using the belkin router that I owned already, instead of buying an Airport.
    I found a solution at askubuntu.com Q 26130 at http://askubuntu.com/questions/26130/how-can-share-my-printer-so-that-i-can-use- it-with-airprint
    I setup a linux machine on the network, with no physical connection to any printer. The 1st, an hp fax psc has a usb to imac, as the 2nd, an hp psc, the 3rd printer is an epson wireless, which is only connected on the network by wifi to the belkin router. I'm certain the imac "sharing" is properly setup, because the linux machine has no trouble finding the printers.  Only the ipad / iphone have a problem.
    Once I put the linux machine (with the above changes) on the network, everything works as desired.  I can print on the ipad / iphone to any of the 3 printers, using the built in Airport printer routine (not the epson or hp apps). And the imax and linux machines can also print on all 3.
    So, I suspect the imac isn't telling the router to display the printers on the network in a way that iOS can see them. I know it would work if I owned an Airport, but I'd rather not spend that much right now.
    I'm sure someone knowledgable in OSX might have an idea where to stick an Airport definition file, created from the python script in askubuntu, that could solve this without having to run the linux laptop all the time.  Any ideas?
    TIA

    It's possible to use free software (Virtualbox and Ubuntu) to fix the broken iOS 5 Airprint printing with non supported printers.  Here's a fix that works on my imac, but should also work on even a windows pc.
    My setup is a lion imac with 2 non-airprint supported usb printers attached, a belkin wifi router that provides network connectivity for my imac, ipad, and iphone.
    Install ubuntu 11.10 in a virtualbox vm.  Specify to use the "Bridged Adapter" with "en1: WiFi (AirPort)" for the network hardware.  Make sure the imac's usb printers are setup with sharing.  On ubuntu, select System Settings > Printers and add your imac's shared printers to the list.  Then start ubuntu's firefox and set "localhost:631" in the address. On the administration tab, under the Server section, check "Share printers connected to this system" and hit Change Settings button to activate it.  Go back to ubuntu's printer setup, and right click on each printer and check that the properties Policies tab does not have any messages about it being unshared. If so, then go back to firefox and make sure the Server sharing checkbox is enabled. It may help to reboot.
    Fire up virtualbox to be able to use AirPort printing to your imac's usb printers, when you want to print from the iphone or ipad. This also works on iOS 5.
    Only problem is error message from iphone to check the printer for errors, even though it actually prints ok.
    references: 
    http://askubuntu.com/questions/26130/how-can-share-my-printer-so-that-i-can-use- it-with-airprint
    https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-June/033611.html

  • How to set up time capsule with ethernet?

    How do I set up a Time Capsule using just ethernet? I have to do a complete backup (1 TB) (AGAIN!) and it will take forever using WIFI. And the instruction manual even says that the first complete backup should be done using just ethernet, --but you know what, it does NOT say how in the world to do that.
    I thought I had stumbled into a few minutes ago, as I had turned off the WIFI and just had it connected to my MacPro just using an ethernet cable, and yet Time Machine was able to find it and start backing up to it ... but that shut off my internet connection! I couldn't log into this site or any other site until I pulled the power plug on the Time Capsule.
    I have FIOS internet connected to my ethernet 2 plug and the Time Capsule connected to my ethernet 1 plug -- would it help if I reversed them?
    This thing is seriously fouled up. Should have just bought a Firewire hard drive.

    I thought I had stumbled into a few minutes ago, as I had turned off the WIFI and just had it connected to my MacPro just using an ethernet cable, and yet Time Machine was able to find it and start backing up to it ... but that shut off my internet connection! I couldn't log into this site or any other site until I pulled the power plug on the Time Capsule.
    I have FIOS internet connected to my ethernet 2 plug and the Time Capsule connected to my ethernet 1 plug -- would it help if I reversed them?
    Your TC setup is wrong.
    You should bridge it.. If using Lion.. you poor guy.. expect endless networking issues..
    This is not caused by the TC.. guess where the issue is??
    To bridge you need to load in 5.6 utility because the one in Lion is useless.
    Then see these instructions.. particularly the last bit for how to bridge.
    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4074627?tstart=30
    Then plug the computer directly into the TC and all should work fine.. don't forget to turn off wifi otherwise it might slow it down still.

  • How to set up an integrated wired and wireless network

    I have an iMac 17" 1GHz connected to a ethernet hub which in turn is connected to a DSL modem and from there to my ISP. I also have a MacBook Pro wirelessly connected to an AirPort Express; the AE is connected to the same ethernet hub through its ethernet port.
    I can connect to the Internet wirelesly using the MacBook Pro, but I can not seem to connect to the iMac.
    How can I keep the iMac wired and the MacBook Pro wireless, but see both on a network? The AE instructions don't seem to have an example for this kind of network.
    Any help would be greatly appreciated!
    Cheers,
    Martin
    MacBook Pro   Mac OS X (10.4.6)  
    MacBook Pro   Mac OS X (10.4.6)  

    Martin,
    As Frank said, you'll need a router with DHCP and NAT abilities (nearly all have this) connected to the modem.
    But just in case your "ethernet hub" is actually a router, just re-configure the AE not to distribute IP addresses - AirPort Admin Utility - Network tab. Try that and let us know.
    For minimal clutter, if you were DSL broadband instead of cable, you could sell the modem, sell the ethernet router, sell the Airport Express and buy a single Ethernet and Wireless DSL modem router - for less than the price of the AE. Some people like to keep the modem separate to make upgrades to the modem cheaper. My solution is to buy a decent modem in the first place, ie make sure it has ADSL2+. Almost all modem/routers do this now, even my ancient ones have firmware upgrades to offer this.
    For minimal spend, you can pick up an Ethernet router for about $30. Just replace your ethernet hub with it.

  • How to set/change ip-address on ethernet interface

    I have an IP address set on my wireless interface (with Internet access - no problem here), but I want to use my Ethernet interface to connect to a NAS device, on a "private/hidden" network - different network (10.0.1.xx)
    What is the best way to do this?

    Look in the printer's user manual for instructions on using TCP/IP (Ethernet.) The printer will have to connect to your network via an Ethernet port. If I remember correctly those old printers only have an AppleTalk serial port, so you will need an adaptor. They were called PhoneNet adaptors. I have no idea where you might find one today. They have a serial port connection on one end and an Ethernet connection on the other.
    Unfortunately, I don't know that the printer will work unless you can turn on AppleTalk, and SL no longer supports it. If that's the case then you need a different type of adaptor - one that actively converts from AppleTalk to Ethernet. They were once made by Asante and Farallon, and they sold for around $100. But they are no longer made.

  • AirPlay function when using wired Ethernet?

    Can I use AirPlay between my IPhone 6 and new Apple TV when the AppleTV uses a wired Ethernet connection?

    As mentioned above, the answer is yes. That is how I use it. It will also work fine if both the ATV and a Mac are wired.
    It is somewhat unfortunate that Apple has decided to name certain networking features with "Air" as I've run into many situations where people think it will only work if the devices are all on the same WiFi network. Recently, after installing a printer and connecting it to the network with an Ethernet cable, someone asked me, "Why did you do that? Now I won't be able to AirPrint to it."
    Sigh.

Maybe you are looking for

  • Get rid of visual voicemail

    Since i upgraded my 8900 to OS 5.0 i have a new feature, visual voicemail, that is not supported by my carrier (o2 germany). On every device boot (as a developer this can happen frequently) i get a sms stating "the speed dial 73240 is not available"

  • Adobe Media Encoder CC won't start if flash player plugin is installed

    Few days ago I installed windows 8.1 pro on a brand new PC and I was having problem starting AME, clicking on icon simply doesn't sort any effect, the software didn't open. I tried starting it as administrator, deleting \AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Adobe M

  • WCS Heat-MAP

    I am using the planning mode available in the WCS to generate proposals, Is there any way that in the proposal I can just view the heatmap and not the AP's. The reason for this is, I just generated the proposal of a mall. As the space is  huge it is

  • QSM Architectu​re

    Hi Guys, Please, I would like to know about LabVIEW Queued State Machine - Producer/Consumer Architecture. This is like event structure in the producer loop and state machine in the consumer loop. Any representation vi may helps. Sasi. Certified LabV

  • Union of tables to give a spatial view

    I have a series of tables that i am trying to join together and display in a view. Some of them have a slightly different structure. They all have either a east/north, easting or northing, or a centrex and centrey. I then want the centroids for each