Lightroom Sharpening

Hi,
It is advised that some sharpening is required when sending images to press. I have been using Photoshop High Pass sharpening with Edge Mask mostly. Recently I have noticed that there is a sharpening option when exporting images from PS Lightroom. I wonder if there is any advantage in Lightroom sharpening compared to Photoshop Layer Blending Sharpening. I am asking this question from those who are experienced in offset printing.

Yes this is a very good article and has been out since the issue of version 1.1 which had quite a few improvements/changes from version 1.0, while 1.2/3/3.1 were mainly bug fixes.
I hope there will be a v 1.3.2 bug fix which clears up the printing problems for Leopard and Vista, and download issues direct from cameras before a paid update.

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Lightroom Sharpening vs. TopazLabs InFocus

InFocus is very much like a TopazLabs version of FocusMagic: i.e. well done (but you have to get the sliders right, and I think using in conjunction with a layer mask is a smart move, to "remix" some of the areas that are overly sharp and/or have artifacts). I run FocusMagic on Windows 7 (PS/32-bit) despite the fact that FocusMagic is officially not supported on Windows 7, and it works just fine. Nevertheless, I will be buying InFocus since it works in PS/64-bit (along with the rest of my plugins), and I like to support TopazLabs :-)
If FocusMagic looked alive I'd reconsider this decision, but its development seems to have come to a stand-still.
Anyway, in my opinion, one can often get better results using Lightroom's excellent sharpener, for vanilla blurring. But in the cases where blurring is due to linear motion, there is no substitute for a directional deconvolving algorithm (like InFocus and FocusMagic), instead of Lightroom's non-directional sharpening algorithm.
Photoshop also has directional sharpening (see smart-sharpen), and I really haven't done a critical comparison between Photoshop's and TopazLabs, but I'm guessing TopazLabs is better or they wouldn't have bothered building/releasing the product..., although ya never know... One thing I will say about Photoshop's though is the shadow/highlight sharpen "masking" may make a layer mask unnecessary. InFocus has some edge masking and artifact reduction sliders to help reduce the need for a layer mask, but for me, once I'm going to the trouble to salvage a blurry image, a layer mask is nearly always used in conjunction with the built-in tool sliders...
Rob

NX will do a better job of conversion of NEFs than any other app I have tried. C1 and Lightzone are close seconds. LR is third, IMO. But, NX is so slow and has such an antiquated interface that further slows workflow that I can barely stand using it. However, if you have the patience, it is a very capable application. LR is slow and has serious workflow drawbacks IMO, but it is a speed demon compared to NX.
I use NX very sparingly (about 5%), Lightzone(about 65%), and LR (about 30%)for image developing--obviously, neither LZ or NX are DAMs. LZ is overall the best app I have used for RAW Development, given that it has a more sophisticated and useful set of features, including regional masking, selective color, zonemapping, soft proofing, etc. Hopefully, LR V2 will have some of these features!

Lightroom sharpening values. Which do you commonly use?

I'm interested because I've been looking back at a lot of the Raw files i have processed via Lightroom, and i have a nagging feeling that i have been over sharpening.
Obviously, set values effect Raws from different cameras differently, and also every picture will need different amount of sharpening to the next one too. I'm aware of that, but everybody must have a sharpening starting point that they use that by experience they know will be pretty close to what they will end up using.
I'd just be interested to know the amounts others use so i can compare whether i have been applying a bit too much sharpening or not.
My images are mostly of my child. They are rarely close up and often contain the scene she is in, in the background. So they are neither landscape nor portrait scenes, but probably classed as general.
The values i typically start with (and if i'm honest, often stick quite near too) are: Amount:55, Radius 1.0, Detail 40, Masking 20. Do they seem reasonable?

Based on other people's settings I've seen posted over the years, I've gathered that my settings are on the low side - I guess I prefer softness to (what I perceive to be) over-sharpening.
For more explanation of these values (or to automate detail settings for yourself via free plugin I wrote):
robcole.com - ISODetailer
Cheers,
Rob

Can Lightroom sharpening have a visible impact on photos displayed at 800x530?

Sorry for the mundane nature of this question - but I don't quite get this from what I've read on previous posts and I'm not too technically smart with this stuff.
From what I understand reading through tutorials for capture sharpening in Lightroom, you need to have your photo at 1:1 magnification to see the effects of sharpening, which I do in fact see. However, you're never going to post any of your photographs at 1:1 magnification, so unless you're going to print the photo, what is the practical reason for bothering? The way I understand it, it is unlikely that you will see any impact of sharpening on the image at smaller sizes which you would post - so does that mean that it is not possible to improve the perceived sharpness of the images you display on the web? I guess I have the same question for noise reduction.
Thanks for your help on this. I've been confused by this from the beginning, and just figured I'd eventually figure it out - which I haven't.

>I guess I have the same question for noise reduction.
You will not see much camera-generated noise at less than 1:1 magnification. Test it and look at a long exposure photo or the dark areas of any picture. You will certainly see an improvement if you move the Luminance or Color Sliders on photos that are noisy in those dark areas.
And the same is true for colour fringing, such as the edge of a building against a bright sky. Some lenses do not deal with that very well and you can get a colour fringe at those edges.
Lightroom does deal with both of these, although I haven't yet had to correct "Chromatic Abberation", maybe my Nikon Lenses are too good!!
But for ordinary viewing, and photos posted to web, there is no need to bother with noise reduction, lens correction etc.

Lightroom Sharpening Tutorial

I just went carefully through the following sharpening tutorial from Martin Evening. I highly recommend downloading the image and going throught the steps. I now finally understand what all of the sliders do, i.e. amount, radius, detail, etc. This tutorial is part of an update to his execellent book. Check it out.
http://lightroom-news.com/lightroom-11-update/sharpening/
Bevan

Yes this is a very good article and has been out since the issue of version 1.1 which had quite a few improvements/changes from version 1.0, while 1.2/3/3.1 were mainly bug fixes.
I hope there will be a v 1.3.2 bug fix which clears up the printing problems for Leopard and Vista, and download issues direct from cameras before a paid update.

Lightroom Sharpening & Exporting

Two questions:
1. When I look at an image in the Library view, has the Sharpening settings been applied in that view or is that purely direct from the Camera RAW? In other words, when I switch to the Develop view and open Detail - are those default settings only seen in the Develop or are they actually being shown in the Library view as the defaults?
2. On the Library view, I see two buttons marked "Import" and "Export" - is there a way to get the "Export" button to show up in the Develop view or do I always have to go to the top menu and do a "File/Export" in that view? Seems like having a big "Export" button in the Develop view would be nice.
Thanks

In the Develop Module <Import> and <Export> are available via >File > Import Photos or Export.
WW

Sharpening in PS3 and lightroom

Hi,
After sharpening in PS3 with the intent of printing from Lightroom, what should the settings be regarding the sharpening in Lightroom? Still on high? How does the Lightroom sharpening affect the sharpening done in PS3, if in fact something is happening? Thanks again!

John,
Good question. You may already be very aware of the following, but for those who may not be, the sharpening tools in Lr are MEANT to be used as the first stage in a two or three step process, as outlined by Bruce Fraser in his book, RealWorld Camera Sharpening with Adobe CS2. Jeff Schewe, a close friend and collaborator with the late Mr. Fraser, has explained the whole thing both online in Lr tutorials and here on the forum.
Bruce taught three stage sharpening:
1) Capture, where you overcome the problems inherent in digital sensors and Bayer algorithms (this is what LR's sharpening is designed to do and does quite well);
2) Creative, where you select specific areas to do sharpening with the settings appropriate for that area, including "de"-sharpening some areas if useful (done in Photoshop or your other full-pixel-editing program of choice);
3) Output, sharpening designed to match the image to the specific output use, whether "online" or printed, and dependent if printed upon the specific size of the image to be output on the specific printing device. This last stage, also probably done with your chosen pixel editor, is done only for that specific print and you might choose not to save this as your "final" of that image.
As you can see, the problem with printing from Lr is that it is not really designed to do the output sharpening ... but still, once you understand the tools it does fairly well, for smaller prints at least. I think you'll have to test what it does to an image already sharpened in CS3, and let us know what it does.
I think, as Nicolas suggested, that if the Lr staff includes a printing module and expects us to actually use it, they might include a separate tutorial on this specific useage of the sharpening tools.
For anyone who hasn't seen it, PLEASE go online and find Jeff's tutorial on the sharpening features of Lr and how to use them.
R. Neil Haugen

Workflow using LR & PS together for sharpening

I use LR 3.3 as my default image organizer and processor. But sometimes I want to go into PS to use the tools there (I use CS4). Let's say I want to make a high quality JPG from a RAW file that resides within the LR catalog. I've started with some LR adjustments, but I also want to make some PS tweaks. What is the best workflow?
I'm aware of the three step procedure of capture sharpen, selective sharpen and output sharpen when processing RAW exclusively in Photoshop. When I import card images into LR, I usually add a small amount of sharpening automatically (amount=25). Does this qualify as the capture sharpen if I use the "Edit with LR Adjustments" in the external editing dialog when using PS from within LR? Or does the creation of the TIF file negate that original sharpening and must I start from scratch in PS? When changes are saved back to LR, do I stop at selective sharpen in PS and use an output sharpen when I export the TIF to JPG in LR? Or do the output sharpen in PS and use none in LR export? I think no on the latter, because if I am correct, I will need some kind of sharpening any time I convert or resize a file.
Or for those special pix, am I better off to just grab the original RAW with PS, convert with ACR, and process 100% in PS and convert to JPG from there (manually adding to LR catalog afterwards)?

I would love to see a sharpening improvement in Lightroom that allows the local pins to have different settings than the globals. In case you did not know - presently all locals share the same settings with the globals. I also acknowlege this would be more complex to implement, and slower.
Anyway, I sometimes export a photo back to Lightroom, sharpen some more with different settings, then export again to Lightroom, sharpen some more (locally) with different settings... - this technique is effective for lens sharpness fall-off correction, since a higher radius and lower detail is more appropriate toward the edges. It does not take directional stretching into account like DxO's algorithm supposedly does, but DxO is not a panacea either - I can usually get as good or better results using this technique in Lightroom than with DxO's auto sharpness fall-off correction.
But back to your original question... - I concur with Pete: save output sharpening for final output, but if you are going to go outside for sharpening and/or other things, it does beg the question of whether to do it in Lightroom first, also external, then again in Lightroom..., or just outside..., or just in Lightroom...
And, I dont have an answer, but I do find the question fascinating. Personally, I've experimented a fair amount with this when using tools like Focus Magic, or Nx2 sharpening, or Topaz Detail enhancement... - how much to do where... how much to do before and how much to do after... (and how does NR fit in...)
Sorry I cant be more helpful, but my general conclusion has been:
It really depends on which software, what you are trying to do, how the various algorithms complement each other... - And I got a bit overwhelmed before figuring out the particulars...
What I will say however, is that most sharpeners work best when used in moderation, so one approach is: do a little at each stage. In other words, do some moderate sharpening in Lr before taking it into Ps, then do some there too - but go easy, then maybe even a little more when you get it back to Lr... - This approach is not necessarily optimal for each case, but seems to be generally good...
Rob

Sharpening

I have read that Lightroom sharpening is only effective for capture sharpening.
In regard to output for the web, what is gained by using Photoshop for output sharpening over using additional sharpening in Lightroom before using the Lightroom Web Module?
As I gain experience with image adjustment, I am able to see things that were once simply invisible to me. At this point I find it difficult to see the difference between sharpening in LR and PS. What should I be looking for?
Thank you.

In regard to workflow, in order to use the Lightroom Web Module and properly sharpen images to size it would be necessary to use Photoshop to sharpen the thumbnails and large images contained in the folder that the Web Module creates. Is this a good approach?

Sharpening images for Photobook

I've been wavering back and forth about the best course of action to sharpen images for my photo books that will be printed on an HP Indigo at Sharedink. Do you think the below steps will yield good results?
So far my process has been:
Edit images in Lightroom (color correction, exposure adjustments, and capture sharpening, etc)
Output full sized tiffs (no output sharpening) to a folder and then import them into my Indesign layout.
Once finalized, I run a script to resize all images in InDesign to 100%.
I'd like to apply some output sharpening to these re-sized images and was wondering if importing the images into Lightroom and then exporting them with output sharpening set to Matte Low Setting would yield good results. I don't need a ton of sharpening. I'm just concerned that the Lightroom sharpening is not optimized for Halftone output.
Thanks for any advice.

Hello,
just a guess: Aperture does sharpening during export based on size and designated output process. Just try to export to mail in different sizes: You always get a properly sharpened image, e.g. when exporting to 320px or to 2640px. And from my tests it looks like the images in the book-pdfs are treated the same way - althought edge width of the sharpening tool seems to be somewhat altered to reflect the 300DPI for book output vs. the 72dpi for Internet (mail) output.
Just a quick remark on sharpening: It just will not do to just sharpen the images independent of output size and resolution, as it is described in an earlier posting in this thread. As soon as an image is scaled more than 120% up or 80% down, dramatic quality losses are inevitable.
Regards,
Dieter

Sharpening presets

How do unsharp mask settings map to Lightroom sharpening? Amount and radius of course map, but how about clipping and its relationship to either detail or masking? I wish that Gaussian blur were an option in Lightroom, by the way. Thanks!

Actually I'm not sure that amount and radius map against USM either
The easiest way I guess is to compare with the same image.

Why is sharpening using the adjustment brush inconsistent?

Moving from 0 to -50 does absolutely nothing. -50 to -60 causes huge changes for every single digit, and everything after that seems to work fine.
Sharpness 0
Sharpness -25
Sharpness -50
Sharpness -60
Sharpness -75
Sharpness -100
Hopefully the difference can be seen in those images. I can always upload larger crops elsewhere.

Negative sharpening between 0 and -50 reverses any existing sharpening. Negative sharpening between -50 and -100 increases blurring:
http://laurashoe.com/2011/09/27/creative-sharpening-in-lightroom-sharpen-eyes/

Different view to develop and library module

Hello everyone, I have a big problem during my workflow, or when working images from the development at the end of the work as the images are like me and very sharp. But when I see in the library module are not sharp and the blacks are very mordibi. Below I post the link to see for yourself.
MODULE DEVELOPMENT:
MODULE LIBRARY:
The problem is that when I export my image is identical to the form LIBRARY and not that beautiful clear form DEVELOPMENT. So I find myself not export images with crisp blacks and dishes.
I already tried to delete the cache, but does not change anything, and I use 1:1 previews, you have no idea how to fix my problem?

twenty_one wrote:
Ah, now I see the rightside of that screenshot, with, as you say, sharpening 150 and NR 0. That's a combo it would never even occur to me to use, not in a hundred years...
Anyway, I tried this with an ISO 1250 shot, but couldn't see any differences anywhere. But maybe you need to go higher.
I've learned to never take anything for granted when reviewing LR forum posts. An ISO 1250 shot is probably too low with most DSLR cameras to see this issue. On my 5D MKII I could really only see the "lightening" between Develop and Library views with ISO 6400 raw images. It may also show up at lower ISO settings with images that are heavily underexposed (i.e. LR Exposure +1 and greater), and with smaller sensor cameras (1.6 crop, P&S).
Gianlu24, keep in mind that Adobe increased the Sharpening amount from '100' in LR3 to '150' in LR4 when using a high 'Masking' setting. For most normal images and Masking settings you should use a Sharpening amount below '100.' There are two basic types–Capture and Output sharpening, each adjusted using separate controls. In addition you can apply both Global and Local Capture Sharpening in LR. These three articles by Laura Shoe may be helpful:
http://laurashoe.com/2011/08/21/sharpening-in-lightroom-part-one-overview-and-capture-shar pening/
http://laurashoe.com/2011/09/27/creative-sharpening-in-lightroom-sharpen-eyes/
http://laurashoe.com/2012/07/11/sharpening-in-lightroom-part-three-output-sharpening/

Grid Preview image different colours to Develop module

I have just scanend a load of colour negatives with a Nikon Coolscan V and created NEF 6000 x 4000 pixels 14 bit 137Mb files and imprted into LR 3.6. When i look att hme in the develop modeule they look great and sky is good blue colour. When I look at then in the library they look more washed out and blues are more purple. I have never had this problem before with images taken on my camera so is this related to the preview quality for such a large image?
Thanks any advice Mike

twenty_one wrote:
Ah, now I see the rightside of that screenshot, with, as you say, sharpening 150 and NR 0. That's a combo it would never even occur to me to use, not in a hundred years...
Anyway, I tried this with an ISO 1250 shot, but couldn't see any differences anywhere. But maybe you need to go higher.
I've learned to never take anything for granted when reviewing LR forum posts. An ISO 1250 shot is probably too low with most DSLR cameras to see this issue. On my 5D MKII I could really only see the "lightening" between Develop and Library views with ISO 6400 raw images. It may also show up at lower ISO settings with images that are heavily underexposed (i.e. LR Exposure +1 and greater), and with smaller sensor cameras (1.6 crop, P&S).
Gianlu24, keep in mind that Adobe increased the Sharpening amount from '100' in LR3 to '150' in LR4 when using a high 'Masking' setting. For most normal images and Masking settings you should use a Sharpening amount below '100.' There are two basic types–Capture and Output sharpening, each adjusted using separate controls. In addition you can apply both Global and Local Capture Sharpening in LR. These three articles by Laura Shoe may be helpful:
http://laurashoe.com/2011/08/21/sharpening-in-lightroom-part-one-overview-and-capture-shar pening/
http://laurashoe.com/2011/09/27/creative-sharpening-in-lightroom-sharpen-eyes/
http://laurashoe.com/2012/07/11/sharpening-in-lightroom-part-three-output-sharpening/

Noise reduction lost during export?

Hi everybody
I'm having a very strange issue in the last few days. I work on a picture and when I export it the noise reduction is gone in the generated jpg.
Please have a look at the screenshot... the image on the right is the image I see in lightroom... the one on the left is the jpg exported.
I'd glad is some could explain why is this. I shoot with a Sony a7.
Thanks.

There is nothing for Adobe to fix. They are not going to do a full export computation every time you tweak any slider—that would take seconds per slider move and there’d be a lot more complaints about how slow LR is than there are about people who wish LR was magic.
You’ll have to learn how to sharpen in LR, rather than assuming a Fit view is how things would look when exported at an arbitrary size.
Laura Shoe has a good review about the three phases of sharpening: Capture Sharpening, Creative Sharpening and Output Sharpening, where what you’re doing in Develop is only phase 1:
1: http://laurashoe.com/2011/08/21/sharpening-in-lightroom-part-one-overview-and-capture-shar pening/
2: http://laurashoe.com/2011/09/27/creative-sharpening-in-lightroom-sharpen-eyes/
3: http://laurashoe.com/2012/07/11/sharpening-in-lightroom-part-three-output-sharpening/

Lightroom Sharpening

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