Lossless rotation

Is there an official answer out there to the question - "Does iPhoto '07 perform lossless jpeg rotations ?"
(sorry if this has been answered, but I can't find it)
Thx.

There's a contextual application, Photo Tool, that will rotate losslessly. Rotating a file with Photoshop acutally increases the file size. A 3 MB jpg file went to 4.3 MB jpg file. The same goes for Photoshop Elements.
I've run across some sites discussing the additional compressions that jpgs go thru when being edited and what I came away with is that unless you're enlarging the files tremendously, you'll be hard pressed to see the difference. It will take many re-compressions before it becomes obvious to the naked eye.
I read where iPhoto 7 now is now supposed to be somewhat lossless in its edits. I just ran a test on a file and here's what I got:
original = 2.2 MB
first edit (retouch tool to remove item from image) = 2.0 MB
second edit (Adjust pane to change exposure, histogram and shadow lightness) = 2.2.
third edit (rotate 90 degrees) = 2.2 MB
export the edited file to the desktop = 2.2 MB
It appears that iPhoto is performing as advertised in regards to lossless or near lossless editing.
Do you Twango?
TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
I've written an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. It's compatible with iPhoto 08 libraries. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.

Similar Messages

Lossless rotation programs

does anyone know any programs to losslessly rotate? iPhoto and Preview are creating problems for me (see http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1400469)
also, can anyone recommend a good and simple program for red-eye reduction? I don't want to use iPhoto for these things because it creates a "Modified" duplicate.

audiofreq wrote:
does anyone know any programs to losslessly rotate? iPhoto and Preview are creating problems for me (see http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1400469)
See Old Toad's previous answer to your question
There's a free Contextual menu application, PhotoTool CM that will batch rotate, losslessly, files from the Finder. It would be much faster than doing each photo individually in Preview. Old Toad
also, can anyone recommend a good and simple program for red-eye reduction? I don't want to use iPhoto for these things because it creates a "Modified" duplicate.
See SMTR's response to this thread -- http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6517094&#6517094
There is no way, in iPhoto to modify a Photo without saving the original and creating a modified version - it you want do to this then you need an external program (like Photo Shop Elements) to make your "NEW" originals before you import them into iPhoto
LN

Why no lossless rotation - PC has had it for years (e.g. ACDSee Classic)

I migrated from PC three months ago and I am still struggling with iPhoto 6.
Why is it that there is no simple button for lossless rotation of JPG pictures without the need for a modified duplicate??? You would not need a "duplicate" since it would be LOSSLESS! Several simple and user friendly programs have had this feature in Windows for years.

Thanks,
that is one way of seeing it and I can respect iPhoto's view of not touching the original in any way. But why would anyone want to keep portrait originals laying on their side if there was (and there is) a lossless option turn the picture to its original orientation. My wife shoots 50% portrait so I have to use 50% more HD space. Irritating. Not the wife - iPhoto.
And yes it would be very nice to find out why PS etc. do not support lossless rotation! There are some rules when lossless can be applied (e.g. 8x8, 16x16 blocks) but as far as I know "every" digicam is compatible. (Wonder why asian Kia as a car manufacturer is giving seven year warranties but Mercedes Benz only about three years??? Which still has more value? Kia/MB or 7/3 years? Not a very good example but still)
But thanks again.
Message was edited by: R+Benzin

Jpeg lossless rotation in organizer?

Currently using PSE 4, but moving up to 7 soon. I've read in previous threads that within the Organizer jpeg rotation is lossless, however I've observed that after doing an initial set of rotations there is a decrease in file size*; subsequent rotations however, do not change the file size. Does anyone have an explanation for this observation, and is the rotation not lossless afterall? (*For purposes of viewing vertically oriented images correctly in Windows XP and Vista, I've found that I need to rotate the images horizontally and then back vertically, otherwise they remain oriented horizontally when viewed outside Elements. This is problematic when burning images on CD/DVD to share with others.) Thanks.
Ethan

Also, I looked in Edit>Preferences>Files, as well as elsewhere in PSE4, and found no information or option for rotation using orientation metadata.
I no longer have PSE 4 installed. But the options may be called Edit > Preferences > Files >Fast JPEG Rotation and Fast TIFF Rotation -- ignore any description you may find in the PSE 4 User Guide, since based on what I see in the PSE 5 Guide, it's completely garbled. (The names of the options and their descriptions got fixed by PSE 7.)
In PSE7, if the option were unchecked, I'm assuming all vertically oriented images would come in horizontally, and thus require rotation anyway. If this is so, I'm not sure what's gained by unchecking the option?
When you take a vertically oriented photo with many newer cameras, the camera records the actual JPEG image horitontally oriented, and it records in the file's metadata the following setting:
Orientation: Rotate 90 CW
In general, when you import a photo into PSE 7, it always obeys the setting of the Orientation field, regardless of the setting of Rotate JPEGs Using Orientation Metadata. So when you import that vertically oriented image into PSE 7, it will come in correctly oriented, vertically.
If you then export that photo and view it in a non-conforming application, the photo will appear horizontally oriented, because that's how the actual image is recorded in the file and because the application ignores the Orientation field.
If you uncheck the option and then rotate counter-clockwise, PSE changes the orientation field to:
Orientation: Horizontal (normal)
and it leaves the actual JPEG image untouched, since it is already horitontally oriented. If you then rotate clockwise, PSE leaves the orientation field as:
Orientation: Horizontal (normal)
and it rotates the actual JPEG image to vertical orientation. When you export that version to non-conforming applications, they will see the image vertically oriented.
When experimenting with this, be aware that at least some downloaders (e.g. the Windows Live Photo Gallery downloader) will read the Orientation field in a photo and rotate the actual JPEG image accordingly (depending on the options you've set). They do this precisely because not all apps conform to the industry standard for the Orientation field.

How to perform lossless JPG rotation?

If I rotate a JPG 90/180/270 degrees in Preview or iPhoto or Aperture, will it be a lossless rotation? If not, are there plugins or third party apps that can?

g-pod:
iPhoto does lossless rotate. You can check it out by rotating a photo and then dragging it to the desktop. Check the size in the Finder and drag it into an open Safari window do confirm that it has been rotated. Safari does not read the orientation tag so it's a good test.
Happy New Year
TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
I've created an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. It's compatible with iPhoto 08 libraries and Leopard. iPhoto does not have to be closed to run the application, just idle. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.

Lossless JPG rotation with Preview?

If I rotate a JPG in Preview, will it be a lossless rotation?

I had my question answered here: http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=6233761
Thanks for directing me to that part of the forum.

Rotated photos--fine in preview, wrong in iphoto

Hi,
I've looked through help for this, and can't find anyone with the same problem. Can anyone help?
I imported about 500 photos from my Canon S1 using Image Capture, erased the card, and then found that the camera hadn't auto-rotated the photos (they are all portrait orientation), probably because the camera was pointed straight down.
Anyway, as these are photos of documents that I need to be able to read, I was worried about rotating them because of jpeg loss, so I used a program called PhotoToolCM to do a lossless rotation. The images now have no thumbnail in Preview, but when I open them, they have the correct orientation. However, when I import them into iPhoto, they have the wrong orientation! How do I change this without rotating and saving 500 photos? The problem is not only the waste of time, but also that rotating jpegs in iPhoto causes gradual degrading of the image, which I really want to avoid.
Many thanks to anyone who can help me out!
pjs

By reading this Apple kb it would seem that Phototool does lossless rotation by writing to the exif. Any application that is exif aware will read it and rotate the image to be viewed by reading the exif tag. the problems is when an app is not exif aware. It seems iPhoto is not. I just did a test with Photo tool and a jpg and imported it into iPhoto. It imported in unrotated.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302669
The kb is for tiger.
The gist is, if you want all applications to read the photo as rotated you won't be able to do the lossless rotation by writing to the exif tags because not all applications are exif aware.

IWeb Rotates jpeg on upload

Ok, this is very weird.
I'm using iWeb 3.0.4; on MAC OS 10.7.5, on a MacBook Pro 15-inch early 2008.
I've been working on the web site in question for about 5 years and this has never happened before. I do modifications, updates and ftps all the time. This is an artist's web site mostly composed of jpegs arranged into 'galleries.' There are many galleries and many jpegs. This syptom, as far as I know right now, applies to only one of the jpegs.
So what happens is:
1. I modifiy the web site on iWeb and then Save.
2. I 'Publish Entire Site' to a directory on my hard drive.
3. I use Filezilla 3.6.0.2 to ftp the contents of the directory (the entire web site) on my hard drive to a host server, to which the production url points. I have repeated this last step several times to make sure it wasn't a one-time glitch.
Result:
One jpg on one gallery (as well as its detail page) is rotated 90 degrees. The jpg is fine on iWeb and on my hard drive. But when I bring up the production web site, what I see is a rotated jpg.
This probably has a simple answer, that I haven't thougt of but I'm still racking my brain to figure out what it is.
Any ideas out there? Thanks in advance.

If you drag the photo from your hard drive into your browser's window how does it display? If it's incorrect you'll need to rotate it with a 3rd party applicaiton like Xee which does lossless rotations. Then add the photo to your iWeb page again.
OT

Photos not rotated in iCloud Photostream

Using iPhoto 11 v.9.5 under Mavericks OS X 9.
I rotate photos in iPhoto 11 and they look fine locally. However, in the iCloud the photos remain unrotated, whether looked at with iPhoto or through AppleTV.
Any ideas how to correct this?

Try manually adding the rotated version to the Photo Stream. You may have to turn off the Automatic Upload option in iPhoto's iCloud preference pane. As that will upload the original version before you have a chance to rotate it.
After rotating the image use the Share button at the bottom, select iCloud and then My Photo Stream.
An alternative method would be to losslessly rotate the files with Xee 2.2 before importing into iPhoto.
OT

Lossless trickery

Not sure where to post this, but it seems a likely spot. Does anyone know if Apple’s Image Capture, Preview, iPhoto, or even Adobe Bridge perform an actual lossless rotation of a JPEG image?
I came across an seemingly interesting app called Xee ( http://wakaba.c3.cx/s/apps/xee.html ), which is touted by some as being more versatile than Preview.
One of the claims on the site is that it will ‘Losslessy rotate and crop JPEG images. This lets you edit your digital photographs without losing quality by re-compressing them like most other editors do.’
Lossless rotation is what caught my imagination.
Apple Help doesn’t exactly say how it does it -- or if it does it at all. Does any one know if the above Apple apps can perform the lossless trick?

Innesjohn:
Welcome to the Apple Discussions. I just downloaded and tried Xee and it truly does do a lossless rotation and save.
TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
I've created an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. It's compatible with iPhoto 08 libraries and Leopard. iPhoto does not have to be closed to run the application, just idle. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.

Image degradation caused by rotation question

When I rotate an image from a horizontal to vertical orientation using iPhoto8 on my 24" Intel-based iMac, the image is reduced in size and loses sharpness. Is this loss in sharpness because the monitor is no longer displaying the image at a correct pixel ratio or is it a software problem like the lack of a lossless rotation routine in iPhoto?
Thanks, Rick

I may be making some assumptions here but let me try and answer. Since the 24" iMac screen is almost twice as wide as it is tall, it stands to reason that when you rotate an image it will reduce in size. Or at least that will be the case if you were using a large portion of the wide screen to display the image horizontally in a landscape orientation. Anytime an image is reduced in size, it stands to reason that detail will suffer because fewer pixels are being used to render the image on the screen. Does that make sense or am I totally misunderstanding the question?

Jpegs and rotated EXIF hell

I have Googled this and all I can find are messages going back to 2005 and referring to Tools that no longer run on Snow Leopard (Mac OS X 10.6.6).
If you look at this JPG <http://www.peterforkes.com/_images/Family/Birth/CharlotteFannyForks1880birth.jpg> it is seen as if it is rotated through 90 degrees clockwise.
If you download this same file and view it on (in my case) my Mac then the same JPG file appears in landscape view i.e. rotated anti-clockwise by 90 degrees!
Is there a tool that will do the following?
1) Run on a modern version of OS X.
2) Will let me view the JPG file EXACTLY as it would appear IF it was on the Web.
3) Will let me edit the EXIF setting AND then let me see the JPG with the same rotation as it will have when posted to the Web.
If the only tool is that nightmare of HELL called Photoshop, please don't tell me (I'd really rather not know).
Thanks,
Peter

I found a small program called Xee that does what you ask. It's free and works great (lossless rotation etc.).
I immediately changed my preferences so it would replace Preview.
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/19978/xee
Good luck,
A.C. Swift

How does iPhoto handle rotating images? 'Revert to Original' Issue

I use iPhoto for all my images, and need to get my head around how it stores images, particularly when edited. If I rotate a photo, for example from horizontal to landscape, then I think it stores the old version, and the new version. I can use the menu to 'Revert to Original' - which shows the unrotated image.
According to iPhoto, my library size is 24.8gb.
According to Finder, the library size is 34.2gb
I would like to reclaim this nearly 10gb back, as if I have rotated a photo, I do not need the original version! It would also be nice to change the iPhoto behaviour, so when you rotate an image, it does not create a new file.
I have heard of iPhoto diet, but that does not work reliably for newer versions.
I use iPhoto 7.1.4 (the latest) and any help or advice would be appreciated.

Welcome to the Apple Discussions. The best way to do what you want for future photos is to upload the photos from the camera to a folder on the desktop, rotate the file there before importing into iPhoto. There are 3rd party applications that can losslessly rotate image files. Also do not turn on the Auto-Rotate feature of your camera if it has one.
For those that are already in the library the only way to do what you want is to replace the original file with a copy of the edited file inside the library package and then do a revert to original on that file.
To facilitate replacing the original files with a copy of the edited (modified) files put all of the files you want to replace into one Event. That will put them all in one folder within the Originals folder and Modified folder. Then copy the contents of the Modified subfolder into the corresponding Originals subfolder.
You run a big risk of damaging the library if an error is made during the process. It's really not recommended. In other words *proceed at your own risk and make a backup of the library before proceeding*.
The reason the finder reports a larger library is that it is reporting the original, thumbnail and modified files as well as the database, cache and data files.
TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto (iPhoto.Library for iPhoto 5 and earlier) database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
I've created an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger or later), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. It's compatible with iPhoto 6 and 7 libraries and Tiger and Leopard. Just put the application in the Dock and click on it whenever you want to backup the dB file. iPhoto does not have to be closed to run the application, just idle. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.
Note: There's now an Automator backup application for iPhoto 5 that will work with Tiger or Leopard.

Problems with EXIF when exporting portrait style pictures.

So, I just recently upgraded 09 with the intention of using it to organize my photography work. I didn't work much with 08 and didn't have any photos in it so I don't know if this has always been a problem or not. When I import photos that have been shot vertically, in portrait mode, something is being done to the EXIF data, other than it being rotated. My camera has auto-rotate on and they were originally transfered with the software Canon gives you. Anyways, when I export these photos, whether by dragging tot he desktop or File >> Export, and then open it in another program, such as preview, and attempt to view the EXIF data, it's nonexistent. I should mention that these photos were not edited in any way in iPhoto, just imported and then exported. Also, the EXIF data can be viewed in iPhoto, just not anywhere else apparently.
I've sort of solved the problem just by trial and error but I still don't know what causes it. When I select these photos and use "Revert to Original", they export perfectly and have all the EXIF data. Also, if I edit the photo somehow, enhance, etc., the EXIF seems to come back when I export. This only seems to affect the photos shot in portrait so I can only imagine it has something to do with how iPhoto deals with the autorotate function on already rotated photos. I decided I would try to import directly to iPhoto rather than import from camera with the Canon software and then import into iPhoto to see if it was the Canon software but the same issue occurs. So, my options at this point are to just select all my photos that I import and revert to original or turn off autorotate on my camera and sift through my photos and manually rotate them. The former isn't a huge deal but it would be a lot more convenient if all my EXIF didn't get erased every time I take a portrait shot in and out of iPhoto. Other than that, I don't seem to see any option to change how photos are imported but maybe I'm missing something obvious.
I was wondering if anyone else has this issue, or if it was a problem in iPhoto '08. If it matters, my camera is a Rebel XT.

When iPhoto rotates the auto rotated photos from your Canon the modified file that gets creates loses much of the EXIF data. To get the EXIF data included in the file you have to export the file to the desktop via File->Export->File Export and select the option to include the title and keywords.
Another way is to turn off the auto-rotate in the camera, upload to the desktop first where you can losslessly rotate those files with PhotoTool CM orXee. Then import into iPhoto. That way no modified file is created and if you drag the photo to the desktop you'll be getting the original file which contains the EXIF data.

How to import metadata?

I'm using iPhoto 8.0.2 (402) and trying to import my existing library of photos that were tagged with keywords ratings and locations in Vista Photo Gallery on a PC. The Vista app uses the XMP standard to store the metadata right in the files. When I import the photos in to iPhoto, it just ignores (or removes?) all the existing metadata so none of my pictures show up with any keywords. Can you let me know how to import the photos in to iPhoto so that the existing keywords and ratings show up?
Thanks.

Welcome to the Apple Discussions. For rotated photos the best solution is to rotate them before importing into iPhoto. That will avoid problems with later use in applications that do not read or use the orientation tag, like browsers.
Two applications that can losslessly rotate a photo areXee and PhotoTool CM.
TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto (iPhoto.Library for iPhoto 5 and earlier versions) database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
I've created an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger or later), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. There are versions that are compatible with iPhoto 5, 6, 7 and 8 libraries and Tiger and Leopard. Just put the application in the Dock and click on it whenever you want to backup the dB file. iPhoto does not have to be closed to run the application, just idle. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.
NOTE: iPhoto 8's new option in the library rebuild pane, "Rebuild the iPhoto Library Database from automatic backup" may make this tip obsolete. We'll know when users have occasion to use it and see if that's the case.

Lossless rotation

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