Poor Results from Time Stretch

Hi all,
So on a number of occasions, I have tried using the Time Stretch feature in Soundtrack Pro, but nearly every time I use it, I get noticeably poor results. For example, if I take a 31-second soundtrack and squeeze it to 30 seconds, the playback sounds very choppy. The same happens vice versa when I stretch audio by small amounts. I find myself having to do this function in Adobe Soundbooth instead. I really like Soundtrack Pro, but it seems that this feature is inferior. The funny thing is, I've seen tutorials online about this feature, but I've never seen the people giving the tutorials have any issues. Does anyone encounter this same issue? And, does anyone know if there's a fix for this situation?
By the way, I'm using Soundtrack Pro 3.0.1, and I'm running it on a Mac-Pro 12-core with Mac OS X 10.6.6.

I've done this all the time and always had good results... And I've been able to stretch quite a bit... My audio has always been 48K, 16 bit.

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Gratefully yours, Daniel

I'm not quite clear exactly how you imported - if your events were from iMovie 9 the correct procdure would be first to recover your iMovie Events and iMovie Projects folder from Time Machine.
You would then check that they open OK in iMovie 9 (which you should still have available in your Applications folder).
When this OK you can close iMovie 9, open iMovie 10 and update your media into iMovie 10.
See help at: http://help.apple.com/imovie/mac/10.0/#mov902ad0c31
If you have already done this, have you allowed time for iMovie 10 to re-render your clips in the background? (can take a long time). The quality immediately after importing may well be poor at first.
Geoff.

Uploading time evaluation results from third party system

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Time stretch audio file to match tempo of track

Hi everyone, I am a new user of Logic express, and have found the info on this site extremely helpful, in conjunction with SFlogicninja's tutorials on youtube.
However, after watching a recent tutorial on Time stretching audio, i am now completely confused. Similar to the tutorial, i am trying to fit an audio region(an acapella track) to the tempo of the project. I have beat mapped the region to establish a tempo, but would like to experiment with slowing down or speeding up the track as a whole. As the acapella was created outside of Logic, i am bouncing the acapella track in order to be able to 'follow tempo'(as shown in the inspector). I have disabled the 'normalize' checkbox and bounced, but the bounced track still does not have the 'follow tempo' option in the inspector.
Any ideas as to why my bounced files cannot follow tempo. I can do it with audio that i create in Logic, but if i import any files, i was under the impression that by bouncing it within Logic, i could still obtain the same results?
I'm running out of hair to pull out!

Lennysapple wrote:
Oh really, it is supposed to be fixed in v 9.1.7
Then I'll have to give it a try.
Hi
Seems to work OK here
Lennysapple wrote:
Did I understand correctly that just by ""renaming"" Logic 9.1.6 inside the application folder it will keep it functioning in case I wanna revert to it later??
Yep (but you will probably still need one called "Logic Pro" to get Software Update to see it)
I have mine setup to quickly switch from 32bit to 64 bit (2 copies with different names) and also previous versions.... works fine
CCT

Poor result using Compressor

I need help. I use a Sony camera (HDR CX560) bought in US with NTSC as standard. I live in Europe and would like to burn a DVD for my Blue-Ray player showing it on my PAL TV.
The footage is 1080i, 1920x1080, 29,97 fps.
I have tried several different ways of achieving good results, but with no luck:
1. Editing in Final Cut Pro with original specs (1080i, 29,97). The result showing in FCP viewer is not perfect, but quite good. A little bit of stuttering and a bit blury pictures. I have tried "Send to Compressor...", selected MPEG-2 for DVD in Compressor (customized to 16:9 TV format). The process stops after a minute - a file is being created, but only the first 30 seconds of the movie is visible. I also tried Share>Export file using Compressor settings. The file created does not have acceptable quality, mostly bescause of very disturbing stripes. I also tried Share>Master file but the output is not good enough (using codec Apple ProRes422 (HQ) - same stripes.
2. Editing in Final Cut Pro with european standard (1080i, 25i). The result in FCP viewer is good with one exception - a lot of stuttering images while panning. I tried all the output/share alternatives mentioned above, with poor result.
I use OS X 10.8.3, Final Cut Pro X 10.0.8 and Compressor 4.0.7
Can anyone help?

pnils wrote:
. Created a project with the original settings (1080i, 1920x1080, 29,97 fps).
FCP is usually pretty bullet proof in handling formats – and most of the time letting it set the project properties is the best way.
From what you've said about the camera and the footage, you shouldn't encounter any potential problems until after you export and start the standards conversion.
Create another project. When the new project dialogue window appears, make sure the settings are set to automatic (video properties set by first clip). Take one of the 1080i 60 clips and edit it to the timeline to set those properties. Export that clip as a test. If it plays smoothly, and it should, proceed to delete the clip from the project and paste the problem sequence to the new project. Delete all project render files and event render files. Now export (don't bother to re-render).
Post back with results.
Russ

Looking for an application that has great time stretch capabilities

Hello all,
I have Logic Pro 8 and I am still learning its capabilities. I do alot of sound design stuff and am looking for a spectacular time stretching application. I've fiddled with Logic's time stretch algorithms but so far I'm not thrilled with the results. I'm interested in really stetching things out to create new sounds. Here is a great example from Nine Inch Nails. It's a remix of Eraser off of Further Down The Spiral.
This particular remix version is called "Erased, Over, & Out." Here is an amazon link to have a listen.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VZOBGI/ref=dmmu_dptrk11?ie=UTF8&qid=1212078077&sr=1-1
The vocals are EXTREMELY stretched out and take the form of a pad almost.
He is actually saying, "Erase me." Keep in mind the original vocal is only about 3 seconds long. I'd like to provide that example but the Amazon sample isn't long enough to get to that part. Maybe download it to listen. It's called Eraser, it's from "The Downward Spiral" album. (1994)
Now, does anyone know if Logic is capable of getting this good a result like the sample I provided? I've seen PT Elastic Time stretching capabilities and it sounds awesome, at least what I've heard from their demo video on elastic time. Can the same results be achieved in Logic Pro 8?
If not, what plugin do you recommend that could achieve this EXTREME time stretching stuff. Or, does anyone know what Nine Inch Nails used to get that effect on the vocals for that particular remix? I just think it's a limitless tool for sound design, but right now I'm feeling limited in the sound quality department. I know I can keep stretching and stretching and stretching the sample region but that sounds a digital mess when I get it to the point were I want it, so please, don't suggest I do that, unless you know a way to make it sound REALLY GOOD in Logic using the algorithms that come with the program. Step by step info would be lovely.
Thanx in advance...
TTW13

ported to the Mac
it's on my other Mac
is their a Mac version?
It seems a safe bet, eh..?
I'm pretty sure the mac link was posted to that thread I linked to, it's where I found out about it...
http://www.bigbluelounge.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35638&highlight=&sid=c2dcbfd c2af80e0fdf9da04b91319e1d

Poor results importing PSE7 slideshows into PRE7

I originally posted this query into the Photoshop Elements forum ('cos I couldn't find this one originally...) and received some very helpful replies from Barb__O - thanks Barb. These have given me some useful leads on things to try, which I've done and did see some improvements, but I'm still not at the point of being happy with the results. The problem appears to be a PRE problem, so reposting here...
I am trying to put together a video presentation for output directly to PC monitor (more specifically, LCD data projector of 1024 x 768 resolution) and then record to DVD, in PAL SD format.
The presentation is to contain slideshows put together in PSE7 (so they already include title slides, transitions, Ken Burns effects and music tracks) and video clips from a couple of different sources - one clip is a scanned Standard 8 film (format is a frame-to-frame AVI at 720 x 576 resolution ie SD PAL) and some clips from a 1440 x 1080 HD (H.264) video camera (Canon HF10). Reading through some of the forums, I'm doubting that PRE7 will be able to handle this variety of input formats...
The still images come from many sources - digital camera, scanned prints (B&W and colour) and scanned transparencies. All images were dropped into the PSE7 slideshow in their respective original sizes/resolutions. There are close to 100 images in the slideshow. Apart from a few scanned B&W print enlargements that were spat out by PSE7 because they were too large (other photo editors had no problem with them - seems PSE is a little precious in this regard...) the process of putting the slide show together went pretty smoothly.
Playing the finished slideshow in the PSE7 preview window, the results were excellent. Exporting the slideshow as a 1024 x 768 WMV file and playing it in any media player yielded the same, excellent results! So far, so good.
I then wanted to put everything together using PRE7 - slideshows, video clips and titles. From PSE7 I clicked the "send slideshow to Premiere Elements" at which point the slideshow was dutifully dropped into my currently opened PRE7 project. As the project already contained the aforementioned scanned Standard 8 clip, the project setting was PAL DV 48kHz. I was feeling exuberant at this stage. I added a couple of title slides and a transition or two and played the result in the PRE7 full screen preview window...
I was absolutely horrified with what I saw when the slideshow started to play. All of the still images were badly pixellated, had jagged edges and any vertical wipe transitions had a horrible, angular ripple effect. In short, unwatchable.
As I had to get the presentation done and was clearly getting nowhere with PRE7, I exported all my slideshows out of PSE7 as WMVs, my video clip out of PRE7 as an AVI and dropped everything into Windows Movie Maker, with excellent results on the PC monitor and the LCD projector. Clearly there was/is a problem with PRE7 or one or more of its esoteric settings.
I now want to add another slideshow and the HD video clips mentioned above to the presentation and then burn to DVD. I would like to use PRE7 to do this, as I can set up menu markers where I want and I want to make finer adjustments to relative positions of stills and video than Movie Maker will allow - but obviously this is all dependent on resolving the quality problems.
After suggestions given by Barb, I played around with the PRE7 project setting and tried various settings here, eg HDV, SVHCD etc. These certainly improved the quality of the still images in the slideshows (to the point where I was happy with them), but the transitions were still ugly and the pan/zoom effects became jerky and distracting, not only that, but the music track that I had synchronised with the slideshow, with a nice fade out at the end, just ended abruptly - again distracting and not at all good.
To be honest I'm confused with that project setting - should this be set to the format I want the finished project output to end up in, or is it set to the format of video input to the project? If the latter, how does it deal with different format video clips?
I've also read about the recommendation to set all still images to 1000 x 750 pixels - this would have been fine if I'd known this *before* I put together the slideshows, I don't want to have to re-do them all again (or can I re-size the images while they are actually *in* the slideshow?)! Besides, PSE7 itself and Windows Movie Maker handle images larger than this, quite happily. Why can't PRE7? Also, how is this resolved for large portrait orientated images? What is the primary dimension (width or height)?
As an aside, I tried re-sizing a single image to 1000 x 750 and dropping straight into PRE7, but I still get poor results (ie grainy, pixellated image)! ("Scale to framesize" is off)
So am I flogging a dead horse here or can I resurrect things so that I can end up with a reasonably professional looking result? I really want to love these two products, they do some things really well, but so far, my overall user experience has been one of complete frustration and disappointment. The user interfaces of these two products have to be about the worst I've come across!
Thanks.

Steve,
FYI - I think that MK had already tried sending directly from PSE 7 to PRE 7 see his mention of
I then wanted to put everything together using PRE7 - slideshows, video
clips and titles. From PSE7 I clicked the "send slideshow to Premiere
Elements" at which point the slideshow was dutifully dropped into my
currently opened PRE7 project. As the project already contained the
aforementioned scanned Standard 8 clip, the project setting was PAL DV
48kHz.
One of my concerns about the specifc scenario is that the PE project setting was PAL SD video and the expected projector resolution was thought to be 1024x768 (and therefore higher resolution). even with Scale to Framesize off, I was not sure if that resolution difference would be a problem.
Your suggestion is making the PAL SD DVD and then using a software DVD player to play that DVD to the 1024x768 projector. That is a different approach that I had not considered -- but it would probably avoid some of the awkwardness of dealing with 2 distinct types and resolutions of output.
MK,
Your earlier post (if I understood it correctly) said that after the presentation using the projector, you would be making DVDs for distribution. Now I suspect that these would be standard definiton DVDs and probably PAL.
I recommend that you confirm in this thread what your current plans are for distributiion and playback.
Once the best fit for a PE project type is resolved, I do think it is worth another try of sending the slideshow from PSE 7 slide show editor to the PE 7 project.
Yes, you may expereince some timing differences between the playback you saw in the PSE slide show editor and what you see in the playback under Premiere Elements (note Steve's point to be sure that you should render in PE before doing playback). Based on what you observe for your specific slide show, these differences can be discussed.
ADDITIONAL comments
played the result in the PRE7 full screen preview window...
I missed this earlier. Because your computer monitor is probably much higher resolution, I question whether this full screen preview is an effective evaluation of the final quality. Steve and Hunt, what are your comments on this?
MK
can I re-size the images while they are actually *in* the slideshow?)!
Besides, PSE7 itself and Windows Movie Maker handle images larger than
this, quite happily.
re-size images while they are actually in the slide show -- maybe but not easy
1 --When in the PSE slide show or from the PE Timeline, you can edit an individual photo and replace the existing photo with the results of that edit. However that is a one at a time operation and most probably not what you want. It is better suited to adjustments to a specific photo when you determine it needs to be differrent for this slide show.
2 --Once your slide show is on the Premiere Elements Timeline, a few people have swapped out a folder of photos and brought in a different folder of downsized same photos. This is tricky but probably can be done: it is probably simpler if all photos are in the same folder. Also portrait photos probably need to be handled separately from landscape photos.
FYI - PSE 7 slide show can sometimes handle larger images and you did not have a problem - but others do have problems and you might in the future. This seems to depend on both the specifics of the photo files and the computer system configuration.

Poor performance from airport express u

I have a time capsule as my base station connected to a DSL router. I have to AP Express units. I'm in a building with concrete walls. The time capsule is at one end of the condo, the first express is in the middle and the second express at the other end. Total distance between the time capsule and the furthest express units is about 12 meters (40 feet). I get the best throughput when I connect to the wireless device that's embedded with the router. Very similar results when in the same room as the time capsule, but markedly (10X) poor results when I'm near the farthest express unit. Both express units are configured to 'extend' the wireless network hosted by the time capsule. In addition, the two express units keep going off and on line like yoyos.

Think of an extended network as a wheel with the extended base station at the hub and each extending base station on a spoke. In your configuration, the base station farthest away will be receiving a very weak signal from the Time Capsule. It can only extend the signal at the bandwidth that it receives it. For best performance, you should consider using a roaming network configuration. Unfortunately, this would require each router to be interconnected by Ethernet.

HT5146 logic 9.1.8 time stretching problem

Time stretch in logic 9.1.8 is not working in arrange window or sample editor.
The arrange window stretching causes the computer to process...but nothing changes in the audio track. Time stretching in the editor is grayed out along with other options in that window. I have tried to stretch mp3, wav, aiff from my samples collection and also my own recorded aiffs..also tried using different file locations on my drives..also have checked permissions and have restarted my computer a few times...nothing works.
I am using an imac from end of 2011 on mountain lion.
anyknows how to get this to work?
thanks

I think it's one and/or the other.. I know compressed files cause problems but I also think it might be a permissions issue of some kind too...
Converting to CAF in the BIN, seems to get around both possibilities... and so far, every time i have converted the resulting file works perfectly fine..
The bit of the Logic Guide that seems to be the clue is this bit...
Note: It is not possible to assign fades to compressed audio files, nor can you destructively edit them.
Found here....
http://documentation.apple.com/en/logicpro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=11%26se ction=4
and stretching seems to be distructive.... (not Flex but drag stretch...)
Whats odd is it seems to do it graphically but then as soon as you click on the region, it goes back to it's original size!

Incredibly poor performance from Premiere Pro + Media Encoder

This is, frankly embarrassing.
I was asked to put a series of still images into a video format to be emailed to a client. The video was to be used by the client for a presentation. I spent half a day trying to get acceptable results, some of which were completely unusable. I experimented with different formats and encoders during this time.
Perhaps it's worth stating, for those of you who might be sceptical, that I've been using Premiere for many years and generally know what I'm doing when it comes to these requests.
After seeing the poor results of my attempts, my colleague decided to try using Microsoft Movie Maker. Not only did he achieve the desired results in under 10 minutes but the filesize was substantially smaller and the quality substantially higher.
It puts the Adobe software to shame, especially considering the results below, from the media encoders log (Note the encoding time!):
- Preset Used: PAL Source to Download 1024kbps
- Video: 720x576, 25 [fps]
- Audio: 96 kbps, 48 kHz, stereo VBR
- Bitrate: Compressed, VBR, 2 Pass, Audiences:1, Avg 872.00 [kbps]
- Encoding Time: 00:24:25
17/03/2010 15:34:20 : File Successfully Encoded
I think you'd agree...this is an appalling situation.

Thanks for your respose - I will look into the links you provide.
I accept of course, that with so little information, you will assume operator error.
Hopefully though, you can also accept that the exercise itself was very simple; the import of a series of still images (all of different dimensions) for export in as high a quality and as small a filesize as possible.
Perhaps Premiere is 'too complex' for such a simple request and this allowed the simplicity of the Microsoft Movie Maker comes into its own. It has an 'import pictures' option in the menu that didn't require any re-sizing or optimisation. All in all, my collegue was able to peform the whole exercise in about the same time it took me to resize all the images to PAL dimensions and import them into Premiere.
Even with this aside, I would have expected far superiour results from the encoding presets in Adobe Media Encoder. In fact, MS provided a higher quality file at 4.81Mb in far less time.
I'm certainly no fan of Microsoft, but that just serves to make this situation all the more annoying.

Shaking after time stretch

I've just tried out the new Premier Elements 11. Love the new format and once I found my way around, I really like the flow much better than 10.
I made sure I had my project for 11 set up like 10, and the settings on my Sony HCR-CX260V are exactly the same. When I apply the time stretch (above 100%) and render, the edited result in 11 is severe shakiness. When I used the same footage and applied the exact same % of time stretch in 10, the result was as smooth as can be. I use time stretch in almost every video I create so I really hope there is a fix for this (or you can tell me what I'm doing wrong in 11 that has changed from 10) as the flow in 11 is better. Thanks so much
Shelby

Have you tried using Time Remapping instead?
Are you seeing the shakiness even after you render the file?
Can you post a sample of this shakiness and link to it so that we can see what you're talking about? "Shakiness" could mean anything from frame rate stutter to a need for stabilization to an exaggeration of hand-held camera movements. We can't say for sure without looking at it.

Time Stretch Audio in FCP?

I've got a sound I'd like to time stretch on a simple project. I'd rather not have to do anything in STP since this is the only sound I need it for--is there a way to stretch in FCP?

Hello Mr. Wolsky,
I have read many of your extremely well informed posts on this site and greatly respect your opinion. I am wondering, however, if you are perhaps mistaken in stating that one cannot pitch shift in FCP.
I invite you to go to the Apple Sound Effects Plugins folder and take a look at "AUPitch". I have used it often for making Foley sound effects that I either can't be bothered to search out - for instance a huge metal clanging door I pitch shifted up a few octaves and it became a briefcase lock springing open.
I think people just don't look in that folder because it looks kinda boring.
Here is an extract from an article on Ken Stone about the Apple audio filters.
Hope this helps.
Harry.
AUPitch
+Adjusts the pitch of your audio, obviously. There are a LOT of controls though, and I have to admit that I don't have a clue what a Glb Trigger Thresh or a Loud Aggr K is. Effect blend blends the pitch-shifted audio with the original and is sometimes necessary to make voices sound natural. It is worth mentioning that I've gotten perfectly acceptable results by adjusting the first two parameters and not bothering with any of the others. I'd imagine that most people wouldn't have to adjust more than these.+
+I tried a Google search on some of these parameters but they only turned up forum threads where people were asking what on Earth they meant and no-one was able to solve their problem. If anyone does know, I'd be interested to hear from them.+
+This can be useful for making a male actor's voice more masculine (yes, I have had to do this!).+

Time stretch to slow down motion

I am using Adobe Premiere Elements 7. When I use the time stretch to slow the motion down, my final motion is very "jerky". Any way to smooth that out a bit better?
Thanks,
Bruce

How does the Slo-mo footage look in Preview?
Also remember that you are basically doubling the number of Frames.
This might also be of use for improving the results:
Set field options for imported interlaced video
In most video, each frame consists of two fields. One field contains the odd‑numbered lines in the frame, and the other contains the even‑numbered lines. The fields are interlaced, or combined, to create the complete image. Adobe Photoshop Elements includes a reverse field order preset for video imported from a hard disk or Flash memory camcorder that uses upper fields first. If your footage was captured with reverse order fields (upper fields first), make sure your project uses either the Standard or Widescreen preset from the Hard Disk, Flash Memory Camcorders presets folder. (See Create or change project presets.)
Ordinarily, interlacing isn’t apparent to a viewer. But because each field captures the subject at a slightly different moment in time, playing a clip in slow-motion, creating a freeze frame, or exporting a frame as a still image makes the two fields discernible. To avoid this, you can deinterlace the image. Deinterlacing eliminates one field and either duplicates or interpolates the lines of the remaining field.
Reversing the field dominance, the order in which the fields are recorded and displayed, may also cause playback problems. When the field dominance is reversed, motion appears jerky because the fields no longer appear in chronological order. Fields can become reversed when the field dominance of the original videotape is the opposite of the field dominance of either the video‑capture card used to capture the clip or the video‑editing or animation software that last rendered the clip. Reversing can also happen when you set an interlaced clip to play backward.
To avoid these complications, you can deinterlace the image. Deinterlacing eliminates one field and either duplicates or interpolates the lines of the remaining field. You can also set field options for an interlaced clip so that the clip’s picture and motion quality are preserved in situations such as changing the clip speed, exporting a filmstrip, playing a clip backward, or freezing a video frame.
Select a clip in the Timeline, and choose Clip > Video Options > Field Options.
Select Reverse Field Dominance to change the order in which the clip’s fields appear. This option is useful when the field dominance of the clip doesn’t match your equipment or when you play a clip backward.
For Processing Options, select one of the following choices, and click OK.
None
Does not process the clip’s fields.
Interlace Consecutive Frames
Converts pairs of consecutive progressive‑scan (noninterlaced) frames into interlaced fields. This option is useful for converting 60‑fps progressive‑scan animations into 30‑fps interlaced video because many animation applications don’t create interlaced frames.
Always Deinterlace
Converts interlaced fields into whole progressive‑scan frames. Adobe Premiere Elements deinterlaces by discarding one field and interpolating a new field based on the lines of the remaining field. It keeps the field specified in the Field Settings option in the Project Settings. If you specified No Fields, Adobe Premiere Elements keeps the upper field unless you selected Reverse Field Dominance, in which case it keeps the lower field. This option is useful when freezing a frame in the clip.
Flicker Removal
Prevents thin horizontal details in an image from flickering by slightly blurring the two fields together. An object as thin as one scan line flickers because it can appear only in every other field.
Good luck,
Hunt

Time Stretch / Slow Motion Percentages

When doing slo-mo (aka Time Stretch), are there "magic" percentages that will give you better results?
For example, if I have a 2 second clip, will stretching it to an "even" multiple like 4 seconds give me a better result than, say, stretching it to something random like 3.75 or 5.32 seconds?

Ed.Mache
From what I have heard there are "magic" numbers that most instructors advise their students to use in this regard. The following is an exerpt of how I answered a similar question elsewhere:
"Advised Slow Motion Speed" sets are given as:
50%, 33.33%, 25%, 20%, 16.67%
"Advised Fast Motion Speed" set are given as:
100%, 200%, 300%, 400%, 500%
What is looked at is the even manner in which the frames are added or removed. And, the decision is based on the speed change percentage. In the case of the 50% speed set, the ratio would be 1:2, reflecting that every one frame ends up as two; 33.33% speed set, the ratio would be 1:3, reflecting that every one frame ends up as three, etc. In the case of 200%, the ratio would be 2:1, reflecting that every 2 frames become 1, etc.
It all goes to the smoothness of the motion.
ATR

Lost transitions after time stretch video texts

How do I get back to the original project I opened to work on? I realized the text duration was 5 sec and needed to be 6 sec. I used the Time Stretch on the text title to increase about 30 text titles by 1 sec ea. I rendered and saved in batches of 10. Results were that the transitions between scenes "went away." I then replaced these transitions, rendered and results were Text titles were moved. This is a mess and I want to start from where I left off Please help. Thank You :-)

You can try to open one of the auto-saves, in the sub-folder in the same folder as your project file.
But meantime, don't time-stretch a title to extend it. Just stretch it longer on your timeline.

Poor Results from Time Stretch

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