Re: pattern for persistance management: the solution?

Thanks to Forte France consulting group and Marc Sonnet (Forte
France), here is one solution for our problem.
We don't have test it yet but this seems pretty good.
thanks for all your replies,
Corinne Barbat
____________________________ Séparateur Réponse ________________________________
Objet : Re: Bloated clients (was: pattern for persistance management
Auteur : [email protected] à _INTERNET
Date : 23/10/98 00:41
Geoff,
Fromhat I've understood of Forte's partitioning behaviour, the only
way to get rid of b, c, d and e Projects from the client partition is by
deploying them as a shared library and having the Client dynamically
load them at run-time. Any other way, including creating a complex
structure of interfaces to avoid the client referencing the other
projects directly, or even deploying the Server projects as another
Application, will not prevent these projects from being included in the
Client Partition.
The problem I guess is that when we think along the lines of components
we immediately associate them with Service Objects. Clearly, it's the
Project and not the SO which can be classified as a component in Forte.
The questions I have is : Now that we know how Forte's Partioning
mechanism works, would it significantly impact the way we partition our
Apps ? I'm not so sure.
Eric
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:52:29 -0400
From: Geoff Puterbaugh <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Bloated clients (was: pattern for persistance management)
Reply-To: Geoff Puterbaugh <[email protected]>
This topic is of keen interest to me as well. At my customer's
urging, I wrote a little test application spread across
four or five projects, each supplying the next..
a << b << c << d << e
The projects b,c,d, and e each contain a class and a service
object based on that class. I partitioned it (a client
partition and four server partitions for b c d e) and made
a distribution. Then I looked at the client partition
and discovered b c d e were projects for it!
If you code-generate this and run fcompile, you will see
that all the code for all the projects in the entire chain
of supplier projects winds up in the client partition.
To be clear about this, if project e contains a class X,
you will see the source code for X.init and all other
X methods in the client partition.
This appears to be the default behavior, and the open
question is how to change the default behavior, if that
can be done.
All my best,
Geoff
P.S. If e uses GenericDBMS as a supplier, it will show up
in the client too. Of course!
This is at least my understanding as of today.
To unsubscribe, email '[email protected]' with
'unsubscribe forte-users' as the body of the message.
Searchable thread archive <URL:http://pinehurst.sageit.com/listarchive/>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Thanks to Forte France consulting group and Marc Sonnet (Forte
France), here is one solution for our problem.
We don't have test it yet but this seems pretty good.
thanks for all your replies,
Corinne Barbat
____________________________ S&eacute;parateur R&eacute;ponse ________________________________
Objet : Re: Bloated clients (was: pattern for persistance management
Auteur : [email protected] &agrave; _INTERNET
Date : 23/10/98 00:41
Geoff,
Fromhat I've understood of Forte's partitioning behaviour, the only
way to get rid of b, c, d and e Projects from the client partition is by
deploying them as a shared library and having the Client dynamically
load them at run-time. Any other way, including creating a complex
structure of interfaces to avoid the client referencing the other
projects directly, or even deploying the Server projects as another
Application, will not prevent these projects from being included in the
Client Partition.
The problem I guess is that when we think along the lines of components
we immediately associate them with Service Objects. Clearly, it's the
Project and not the SO which can be classified as a component in Forte.
The questions I have is : Now that we know how Forte's Partioning
mechanism works, would it significantly impact the way we partition our
Apps ? I'm not so sure.
Eric
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:52:29 -0400
From: Geoff Puterbaugh <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Bloated clients (was: pattern for persistance management)
Reply-To: Geoff Puterbaugh <[email protected]>
This topic is of keen interest to me as well. At my customer's
urging, I wrote a little test application spread across
four or five projects, each supplying the next..
a << b << c << d << e
The projects b,c,d, and e each contain a class and a service
object based on that class. I partitioned it (a client
partition and four server partitions for b c d e) and made
a distribution. Then I looked at the client partition
and discovered b c d e were projects for it!
If you code-generate this and run fcompile, you will see
that all the code for all the projects in the entire chain
of supplier projects winds up in the client partition.
To be clear about this, if project e contains a class X,
you will see the source code for X.init and all other
X methods in the client partition.
This appears to be the default behavior, and the open
question is how to change the default behavior, if that
can be done.
All my best,
Geoff
P.S. If e uses GenericDBMS as a supplier, it will show up
in the client too. Of course!
This is at least my understanding as of today.
To unsubscribe, email '[email protected]' with
'unsubscribe forte-users' as the body of the message.
Searchable thread archive <URL:http://pinehurst.sageit.com/listarchive/>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
To unsubscribe, email '[email protected]' with
'unsubscribe forte-users' as the body of the message.
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    Geoff,
    From what I've understood of Forte's partitioning behaviour, the only way to get rid of b, c, d and e Projects from the client partition is by
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    load them at run-time. Any other way, including creating a complex
    structure of interfaces to avoid the client referencing the other
    projects directly, or even deploying the Server projects as another
    Application, will not prevent these projects from being included in the
    Client Partition.
    The problem I guess is that when we think along the lines of components
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    The questions I have is : Now that we know how Forte's Partioning
    mechanism works, would it significantly impact the way we partition our
    Apps ? I'm not so sure.
    Eric
    ----Original Message Follows----
    Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:52:29 -0400
    From: Geoff Puterbaugh <[email protected]>
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Bloated clients (was: pattern for persistance management)
    Reply-To: Geoff Puterbaugh <[email protected]>
    This topic is of keen interest to me as well. At my customer's
    urging, I wrote a little test application spread across
    four or five projects, each supplying the next..
    a << b << c << d << e
    The projects b,c,d, and e each contain a class and a service
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    partition and four server partitions for b c d e) and made
    a distribution. Then I looked at the client partition
    and discovered b c d e were projects for it!
    If you code-generate this and run fcompile, you will see
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    X methods in the client partition.
    This appears to be the default behavior, and the open
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    can be done.
    All my best,
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    P.S. If e uses GenericDBMS as a supplier, it will show up
    in the client too. Of course!
    This is at least my understanding as of today.
    To unsubscribe, email '[email protected]' with
    'unsubscribe forte-users' as the body of the message.
    Searchable thread archive <URL:http://pinehurst.sageit.com/listarchive/>
    Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
    To unsubscribe, email '[email protected]' with
    'unsubscribe forte-users' as the body of the message.
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    Geoff,
    From what I've understood of Forte's partitioning behaviour, the only way to get rid of b, c, d and e Projects from the client partition is by
    deploying them as a shared library and having the Client dynamically
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    structure of interfaces to avoid the client referencing the other
    projects directly, or even deploying the Server projects as another
    Application, will not prevent these projects from being included in the
    Client Partition.
    The problem I guess is that when we think along the lines of components
    we immediately associate them with Service Objects. Clearly, it's the
    Project and not the SO which can be classified as a component in Forte.
    The questions I have is : Now that we know how Forte's Partioning
    mechanism works, would it significantly impact the way we partition our
    Apps ? I'm not so sure.
    Eric
    ----Original Message Follows----
    Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:52:29 -0400
    From: Geoff Puterbaugh <[email protected]>
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Bloated clients (was: pattern for persistance management)
    Reply-To: Geoff Puterbaugh <[email protected]>
    This topic is of keen interest to me as well. At my customer's
    urging, I wrote a little test application spread across
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    a << b << c << d << e
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    If you code-generate this and run fcompile, you will see
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    of supplier projects winds up in the client partition.
    To be clear about this, if project e contains a class X,
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    X methods in the client partition.
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    question is how to change the default behavior, if that
    can be done.
    All my best,
    Geoff
    P.S. If e uses GenericDBMS as a supplier, it will show up
    in the client too. Of course!
    This is at least my understanding as of today.
    To unsubscribe, email '[email protected]' with
    'unsubscribe forte-users' as the body of the message.
    Searchable thread archive <URL:http://pinehurst.sageit.com/listarchive/>
    Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
    To unsubscribe, email '[email protected]' with
    'unsubscribe forte-users' as the body of the message.
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    Hi all,
    I'm trying to figure out whether RH Server is the solution for us. I've seen a few similar posts in the forums, but none that really answer my specific questions. I'm hoping for feedback from someone with experience in RH Server, who is perhaps in a similar situation to us.
    We are a software development company, creating desktop software for PCs. We have three main applications, and approximately 20,000 users. I am the company's (only) Tech Writer.
    Currently I provide documentation (user guides) to our clients in the form of the good ol' CHM file. I develop these in RH8. Each of our applications is bundled with an installed CHM file which users access by pressing F1. I'm sure you're all familiar with this process. Our users run our software on their own systems, completely independent of us - there's no connection to us whatsoever. However, they all have Internet access, as it's a requirement for them to be able to use certain functionality within our applications. Hold that thought.
    I also write Knowledge Base Articles in MS Word, as PDFs, which users access via our web site. Internal to our organisation, I provide KBAs and other such material for our Technical Support staff. These aren't available/accessible to the public. I write these in Word because they need to be sent around to a team of reviewers from time-to-time, and whilstI'm the only person with RH installed, everyone has Word.
    What I'm hoping to achieve with RH Server is this:
    Do away with the old CHM files that our users have. They're just awful. I'm hoping that in future, when our users press F1 from within our applications, they will be taken to a corresponding page on a web site or AIR page similar to what the Adobe Help looks like when we access it from RoboHelp. Forgive my ignorance if I've used incorrect terminology. That way they'll always be reading the latest Help content, live, online, instead of what I wrote last time we sent a product update out. I imagine our programmers will have to edit the functionality behind the action of our users pressing F1 in our applications. Has anyone done this? Are there any issues we should be aware of? What happens if our users don't currently have Internet access, for example - is it possible to call a local version of the Help instead, if this is detected? Has anyone done this with a similar number of users to us? We could well have 100s of users trying to access the system simultaneously.
    Gather feedback from users. From what I understand, we'll be able to use RH Server to see which Help topic/content is being viewed, and also receive feedback from users. Can anyone give me feedback on their experiences with this? Any tips/hints/issues I need to be aware of? Is it possible for us to determine which users accessed which content? Remember, the idea is that users should be able to access this content by pressing F1 - I don't want them to have to sign in every time they need to access our Help system - it should be seamless to them. So, I'm wondering how it would be possible to track user usage without making them sign in. This is important to us because some of our content is region-specific, and it would be handy to know if users from those regions are actually accessing the Help content that relates to them.
    Host our internal documentation on the same server as our public documentation. Is it possible to host all of our internal, private documentation on the same RH Server, making it available to our Tech Support team (and other internal teams) only? I imagine we could do this by password-protecting it, but I want to ensure that the public don't even know it exists. ...and our Tech Support people would not be impressed with having to sign in every time they wanted to access their Knowledge Base. Any tips here regarding locking down / restricting access to content?
    A quick note about collaboration:
    Currently, although the Help menus are developed in RH, the KBAs and other PDF documents are written in MS Word. I send them around to a team of reviewers who add their comments/edits and send them back to me. From what I understand, this is something I can do with RH10 - export PDFs and send them around for review, combining the results later, at which time I give them a final review before publishing. Have I understood this correctly? Does RH Server play a part in this process? Can I use RH Server's feedback capabilities as a mechanism for my review team to make edits/comments? I guess I'm trying to get an understanding of how sophisticated the RH Server feedback system is. If I can use RH Server to have the team read/review documents, it'll save me having to manage a bunch of Word documents that I email them. It'll also minimise the chance that a redundant document gets distributed by mistake - something that can occur because people use their locally-saved documents I emailed them earlier, instead of the finals.
    Thank you.

    Hi, symmetricalMan
    Let's see if I can tackle some of these "inline". There are a lot of moving parts to your system (you're a busy guy!)
    I only have time for a few of these. Perhaps Colum McAndrew and others will chime it with their experiences.
    >>they will be taken to a corresponding page on a web site or AIR page similar to what the Adobe Help looks like when we access it from RoboHelp.
    It would be WebHelp Pro in the scenario you mention (not AIR Help).
    By "taken to a corresponding page" you are referring to Context Sensitive Help which RoboHelp Server does support (including your F1 scenario).
    >>What happens if our users don't currently have Internet access, for example - is it possible to call a local version of the Help instead, if this is detected?
    Hmm. You could either package a plain WebHelp (not Pro) output and distribute for access on a share drive. The detection thing would be up to your developers. Come to think of it, AIR Help does have a potential alternative here which might be worth looking into. Obviously, there would be two systems to maintain. I'm not up to date on it, but you'll find info here in the online help: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/robohelp/robohtml/WS81F63111-6ACF-4a02-B2B2-461FEBFA8093.html
    >>.we'll be able to use RH Server to see which Help topic/content is being viewed, and also receive feedback from users.
    Actually, the "feedback" is anonymous (no names are collected.) You can however, create "Areas" and analyze the traffic on topics according to sub-sets of your users.
    The feedback is not direct from the users. In other words, RoboHelp Server (at least for now) does not support Commenting (as AIR Help does). So Feedback Reports are derived from the end-users "surfing" your site and collecting their search terms verbatim to get an idea of what they are searching for in order to improve your content.
    >>So, I'm wondering how it would be possible to track user usage without making them sign in.
    RH Server Sites do not have to be "Protected" by authentication. It is your choice. You can have some sites (called Areas) that are authenticated and some sites that are not authenticated, all on the same RH Server. RoboHelp Server uses a database and can authenticate users (by setting up protected "Areas".) However, my networking knowledge is limited and you would have to ask someone else about "persistent logins" etc.
    >>content is region-specific, and it would be handy to know if users from those regions are actually accessing the Help content that relates to them.
    Yes, you can do this. This is where RoboHelp Server can be used to create "Areas" for different content to be delivered to different audiences.
    >>Is it possible to host all of our internal, private documentation on the same RH Server,
    Yes you can. However the Tech Support sign in scenario question would have to be answered by someone else. It's hard to know from where I sit.
    >>RH10 - export PDFs and send them around for review, combining the results later, at which time I give them a final review before publishing
    Yes, this workflow would seem to work for you. However, RoboHelp Server plays no role in this review one way or the other. There are many alternatives for sharing the PDF which is described in the documentation.
    See #6 on this page:
    http://help.adobe.com/en_US/robohelp/robohtml/WS1b49059a33f77726-2db1c75912bc47baaf8-7ffb. html
    You should also download the Adobe RoboHelp Server Reviewer's Guide which also has videos embedded.
    http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/robohelp/9/AdobeRoboHelpServer9_ReviewersGui de.pdf
    Hope this helps
    John Daigle
    Adobe Certified RoboHelp and Captivate Instructor
    Evergreen, Colorado
    www.showmethedemo.com
    Twitter: @hypertexas

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