RGB Working Color SPace ....

I'm very confused with this stuff ...
I read that when we setup Photoshop we should set the working color space
rgb to Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB .... fine I understand this up to a point.
However what happend if the monitor can not display the color space ?
For example when I display the Color Picker on my external NEC monitor
everything always looks good but on my internal laptop monitor there is
banding in the Color Picker.
If I set the working color space to srgb then the banding disapears.
So just how should I set all this up ?

Michael,
rely on a calibrated precision monitor (not the laptop),
define all images by AdobeRGB and improve them by Levels,
Curves and Sharpening.
Check occasionally by Proof Colors / Gamut Warning
(using the monitor profile) whether the colors are out
of gamut for the monitor.
The monitor is probably not the final output device.
If the output device should be e.g. offset ISOCoated,
then check by Proof Colors / Gamut Warning whether the
colors are out of gamut for ISOCoated. If this should
be the case, then modify the RGB source until only small
parts of the image are out of gamut (yellow blossoms).
Otherwise larger parts might be affected by posterization
(blue sky).
Theoretically one can use 'desaturate by 20%', which should
show larger space colors mapped to the smaller space.
I don't use it, I'm preferring the gamut warning - recently
for a couple of landscape photos with very blue skies,
yellow blossoms and orange sunsets.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Similar Messages

Asking the Bridge Team: Bridge "working color space" setting when one does not have the Suite?

Common sense tells me there is really no such thing as a
"working color space" in Bridge, because
Bridge is not an image editor, just a browser
Therefore, this may turn out to be a purely academic question; but that doesn't keep my curiosity from forcing me to ask it anyway. ;)
Is there a way to set the Bridge
"color settings" when one does not have the suite?
The only Adobe program I keep up to date is Photoshop, so I've never had the suite. My version of Photoshop is 11 (CS4) and I run updated
(not upgraded) versions of Adobe Acrobat 7.x, Illustrator 10.x and InDesign 2.x. Consequently, the Synchronize color settings command is not available to me.
It seems to me that Bridge is behaving like a proper color-managed browser (e.g. Firefox with color management enabled), in that it displays tagged image files correctly and assumes sRGB for untagged image files. This normally works fine.
But what if I wanted Bridge to assume my
Photoshop color working space for untagged images
so that it behaves the same as Photoshop? I'm just curious, as I deal with a minuscule, practically negligible amount of untagged files.
My reason for bringing it up now is that I don't recall this being explicitly mentioned in forum replies when users inquire about color settings in Bridge. A recent post regarding Version Cue in the Photoshop Macintosh forum got me thinking about this. Just wanting to make sure that I'm right in my assumption that
there is really no such thing as a
"working color space" in Bridge, because Bridge is not an image editor, just a browser.
Thanks in advance.

Hi Ramón,
Thanks for sharing the outcome of your tests. However, I may have found a bug/exception to Bridge's colour management policy!
It appears that CMYK EPS photoshop files are not colour managed in Adobe Bridge, even if they contain an embedded ICC profile.
I've tried every combination in the EPS 'Save As' dialogue box, so it doesn't seem to be an issue with file encoding. Also, Bridge doesn't rely on the low-res preview that is held within the EPS itself.
My guess is that Bridge is previewing the CMYK EPS with a Bridge-generated RGB image, but it's being displayed as monitor RGB (assigned) rather than colour managed (converted to monitor RGB). For most users the difference will be barely perceptible, but the problem became very noticeable when using Bridge to preview Newsprint CMYK images on a wide-gamut monitor (images that should have appeared muted really leapt off the screen!).
How do I report this to the Colour Police at Adobe?!?

Referring to Working Color Spaces in javascript

I've found the adobe reference to be lacking in this regard as I've been unable to refer to the gray working color space accordingly.
The reference says that using a string with "Working Gray" or "Working RGB" should refer to their respective working color spaces. In my experience I have not found this methodology to work.
I can successfully change profiles by doing something like this:
docRef.convertProfile('KMattePr_50_3_14-3-12.icc', Intent.RELATIVECOLORIMETRIC, true, false)
but I cannot get it to work this way:
docRef.convertProfile('Working Gray', Intent.RELATIVECOLORIMETRIC, true, false)
Given that I'm trying to refer to the "Gray Gamma 1.8" icc profile, it seems like I do not have another option to access it aside from making it my working space and referring to it accordingly.
Any guidance?

You may want to post Photoshop Scripting questions on
Photoshop Scripting
Have you started this thread?
ps-scripts.com • View topic - convertProfile() and referring to Working Color Spaces

Photoshop and working color spaces

In how many color spaces Photoshop can work correctly?
Can only work with gamma 1.8 and 2.2 ones or even with linear or L* gamma color spaces?
It is enough that the working spaces has RGB=0 0 0 mapped to L*=0 and RGB 255 255 255 mapped to L*=100?
Thank you
Marco

I don't know where in the past I read that in Photoshop the curves, levels and so on work correctly only if the image encoding color space has: pure black (L*=0) mapped to 0 0 0, pure white (L*=100) mapped to 255 255 255, the gray axis effectively acromathic (a,b=0) and the gamma encoding is 1.8 or 2.2.
These are the reasons because (I read) in the working RGB color space is not advisable choosing the monitor color profile.
Thank you for your considerations
Marco

ICC working color space for the System?

(I posted this in another area but I did not get any replies, so I'm trying here)
Hey, any color management pros out there...
What is the ICC color space of the OS itself? Is it the calibrated monitor profile I'm using?
For example, let's say I'm working in an app. that doesn't use any color management. By default is that color space the app is using by default the ICC profile of the calibrated monitor profile?
I'm specifically wondering in regards to rendering in 3d applications, such as, Lightwave, Strata3d, etc. These apps. don't save ICC profiles with the final rendered files. Are these files essentially in the Monitor space then? This is my guess, and has proven to be so in my tests, but I want to hear what other people think/know...
thanks!
Jeff

What is the ICC color space of the OS itself? Is it
the calibrated monitor profile I'm using?
As Ned said, the OS doesn't have an ICC profile. Profiles describe the properties of image input or output devices. They tell which colour an output device will display when sent a certain RGB value, or which RGB value an input device will return when it sees a certain colour.
Colour space and profile are basically synonymous, a colour space is the range of colours a device can produce or see, as described by its ICC profile.
For example, let's say I'm working in an app. that
doesn't use any color management. By default is that
color space the app is using by default the ICC
profile of the calibrated monitor profile?
No, if the app doesn't use colour management it is oblivious to colour profiles. It will simply throw the RGB values at the output device as they are.
I'm specifically wondering in regards to rendering in
3d applications, such as, Lightwave, Strata3d, etc.
Don't know these two, so can't comment.
These apps. don't save ICC profiles with the final
rendered files. Are these files essentially in the
Monitor space then?
Strictly speaking, no. You will get whatever the monitor or printer make of the RGB values. However, most apps produce/expect RGB values that look reasonably correct on sRGB monitors, for historical reasons. Hence, even on systems without colour management (or when using apps that aren't CM aware) you can calibrate your monitor to mimick sRGB behaviour (using the on-screen menu) and get reasonable results. Most good CRT monitors come pretty close to sRGB out of the box.
Cheers
Steffen.

"Working Color Space" - InDesign

Color Settings show an RGB working space and a CMYK working space like Photoshop. In InDesign I seem to be CMYK all the time. My printer works very well with sRGB. When I send an InDesign page to the printer, am I sending sRGB or CMYK data? Should if CMYK should I be using a specific profile?
/Jason

InDesign has "simultaneous" RGB and CMYK working spaces, any given file will likely have both. It works at object-level instead of file-level. Any given object can be either RGB or CMYK.
Images should normally be original RGB. Native graphic objects are CMYK by default, but can be defined as RGB in the Color panel.
The normal output from ID is a PDF, so for print, especially if you're sending it out, you'd just export an RGB-converted PDF and print that.
If you print from ID (which you can), do it the same way as you do with PS: Let InDesign manage color, and turn off color management in the printer driver. Then all these conversions are done by ID on the fly, whether from CMYK or RGB.
(edited slightly for clarity)

Changing working color space requires re-calibration?

I calibrated my monitor and is using sRGB as working space in photoshop cs2.
If I open an adobeRGB tagged photo, photoshop says profile mismatch. If I choose to convert adobeRGB to sRGB, would some colors get clipped by the smaller sRGB space?
Suppose I want my working space to be adobeRGB, what are all the color management related things I need to change, in addition to choosing adobeRGB as the working space in photoshop? Do I need to change the monitor calibration process?
I don't see any parameters in the calibration software (coloreyes display pro) related to the intended working space so I'm guessing the answer is no.

Short answer: monitor calibration doesn't depend on
working spaces.
For your monitor calibration you are free to choose:
a) min.luminance, black point, typically below 0.3cd/m2.
b) max.luminance, typically 100cd/m2 in a dimmed room.
c) gamma, normally gamma=2.2.
d) white point: 6500K or 5000K or something between.
Despite all color management, the working spaces sRGB
and aRGB (AdobeRGB) with white points D65 (6500K) can
be shown with 6500K or more yellowish down to 5000K.
This color shift is not corrected by color management.
Now you can use any RGB working space, preferably sRGB
or aRGB, but some color ranges of aRGB are out-of-gamut
in sRGB and in MonitorRGB, which is mostly near to sRGB.
Therefore all color editing in aRGB, as visualized by
the monitor, is occasionally doubtful.
New practical applications can be found here - mainly
for final results in CMYK:
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/labproof15092008.pdf
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

RGB / CMYK Color Space View

This might be a really basic question, but can anyone tell me how I can toggle between the "RGB Color Space View" and "CMYK Color Space View" in the color picker menu box? Thanks.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no CMYK Color Space View in the color picker. You determine whether the swatch you create is RGB, CMYK or LAB by clicking in one of the fields of each color model.
Peter

What is aperture's working color space

When I print from Aperture 2.1 or 2.1.1 to my Canon ipf5000 and use Aperture's print dialogue to set the colorsync profile to me printer/paper profile, prints are very dark and have a yellow cast. I don't experience this problem with Apple Preview or with Photoshop CS3, so I believe it to be an Aperture issue.
If I print without any color management, my prints look reasonable (not dark and yellow). I'd like to note that when I get the dark output I've been certain not to enable color management in the driver.
As a workaround, I am trying to set up color management in the printer driver. I leave aperture set to "System Managed" and then in Canon's ipf5000 driver interface (version 1.3) I set color matching to "ICC Correction." I then set the matching method to "Perceptual" and the output profile to the profile I'd like to use for my printer/paper, but I'm not sure what to enter in the 3rd field - "Input Profile."
I've called Canon Tech Support and confirmed that "input profile" expects the Application's working profile, and I've already tried "Wide Gamut RGB" "Adobe RGB" "sRGB" and "Generic RGB Profile" without finding a setting that matches the output I get from CS3's build in color management (and how it looks on screen). "Generic RGB Profile" is very close, but slightly more saturated.
Can anyone here tell me what Aperture's working space is, or give me ideas about why Aperture's Colorsync color management produces such dark/yellow prints?

Actually when you export JPGs (or other formats as well) you can set the export profile to any profile on your system. Aperture will convert the image to that profile and embed the profile in the image file so that other color managed applications display it properly. The JPG presets that come with aperture happen to convert to sRGB except for whatever reason the preview JPGs that Aperture generates are Adobe RGB and the downloadable JPGs that it sends to MobileMe web galleries are also AdobeRGB, unfortunately there is no way to pick/set a profile for these two operations at the moment.
RB

The availability of color space in RAW, TIFF and JPEG files

This is useful if your new to DSLR photography.
This is Nikon response on my question in the discussion: View photo metadata
I'm assuming that you know that Adobe RGB shows about 50% and sRGB 35% of CIELAB color space.
In a DSLR camera like the Nikon D800 you can select a color space (Adobe RGB or sRGB) in the shooting menu.
In Adobe Lightroom 4.3 the RAW metadata shows no color space info. Therefore I asked why not?
In the (Dutch) Nikon D800 manual on page 84 (about RAW) and 274 (about color space) and Nikon FAQ website there is no descripton about the color space availability/behavior in RAW, JPEG and TIFF files.
In the book "Mastering the Nikon D800 by Darrel Young" on page 125 - 126 is written: "If you shoot in RAW format a lot, you may want to consider using Adobe RGB....."
All experts on this forum answered: color space does not apply/affect the RAW data file or RAW files have no color space.
The respone of Nikon Europe Support (Robert Vermeulen) was: In Nikon D800 NEF RAW files both color spaces (Adobe RGB and sRGB) are always physically available. In JPEG and TIFF files only the in the shooting menu selected color space is physically available. So the forum experts gave the correct answer!
Of course you can convert afterwards a JPEG or TIFF file with sRGB color space to Adobe RGB but you don't get more colors.
When you install the Microsoft Camera Codec Pack or FastPictureViewer Codec Pack they only show color space metadata for JPEG and TIFF files and nothing for RAW because color space "doesn't exist". I thought the codec packs removed the color space metadata for my RAW files.
Adobe Lightroom also can not show color space for RAW files because that "doesn't exist".

Van-Paul wrote:
The respone of Nikon Europe Support (Robert Vermeulen) was: In Nikon D800 NEF RAW files both color spaces (Adobe RGB and sRGB) are physically available. In JPEG and TIFF files only the in the shooting menu selected color space is physically available.
I still think this is an evasive answer that doesn't really pinpoint the exact chain of events that take place. They are:
1. The raw file contains the naked data captured by the sensor. This is just a very dark grayscale image.
2. In the raw converter it is encoded into a working color space to process the information. In Lightroom this is known as "Melissa RGB", or linear gamma Prophoto. It is also demosaiced to bring back the color information.
3. From Lightroom it can be exported to one of the familiar color spaces like sRGB or Adobe RGB. This is, in principle at least, a normal profile conversion.
These three steps are what the camera does to produce a jpeg. So the basic steps are the same, the camera is just doing it automatically (and usually butchering the image in the process...).
This Darrell Young is, I'm sure, an excellent photographer, but in this he is seriously confused and just propagating a common myth. Anyway, thanks for bringing up this discussion, hope you didn't object too much to the tone of the answers... Our only concern here was to get this right and with no room for misunderstanding.

Color Space....of Lightroom...and Web Creation Page

Lightroom 2 on XP
Is there a place to set the working color space of lightroom?
I usually use sRGB because I produce for the web...but recently got images created in the Adobe RGB Color Space.
When I create Thumbnails and Enlarged Images in the HTML web gallery...are the images in the sRGB color Space by default possibly...Is there a way to manage this some way?
Thanks.
Suzzie

Forgot about this question:
>but recently got images created in the Adobe RGB Color Space.
Lightroom correctly understands attached profiles. Just take it in and export to sRGB jpegs, or use the web tool, which brings me to:
>When I create Thumbnails and Enlarged Images in the HTML web gallery...are the images in the sRGB color Space by default possibly...Is there a way to manage this some way?
Lightroom does the right thing and always uses sRGB in the web galleries.

Different results of color space conversion

I am converting a raw image.
1. First in ProPhoto, passing it to PS CS3, accepting ProPhoto (against the working color space), and then I convert it in sRGB in Edit.
2. Next, converting it in ProPhoto, but when CS3 receives it, I ask for immediate conversion in sRGB, the working space.
3. Third, I change the color sapace in ACR to sRGB and pass the image to CS3.
Of course, the ACR adjustment parameters are identical in the three processes.
1 and 3 are almost identical (a difference layer does show differences, but I don't see them on the results without huge boosting, and that shows quite random, noise-like difference).
However, 1 and 2 are *vastly* different. The difference, boosted by 2 EV clearly shows the original texture, which is determined by a pecularity in the blue channel.
What is the explanation for the difference between the two conversion from ProPhoto to sRGB?
The conversion engine is Adobe (the conversion immediately at receiving the image does not ask me for the engine).
http://www.panopeeper.com/Download/ProPhoto_to_sRGB_Discrepancy.tif contains three layers with the three versions.
http://www.panopeeper.com/Download/ProPhoto_to_sRGB_inProPhoto.tif is the unconverted, i.e. ProPhoto version.

> I played around a bit with your samples and I could get close to your "Converted when receiving" version by using the Microsoft ICM engine (other options like Dither and Black point comp didn't produce big differences that I could see). Is it possible that is what you have as the engine in Edit>Color Settings?
As I posted, I am using the Adobe engine.
> I reproduced your exact steps (but in CS4), and there was no difference whatsoever between the three. Pitch black in difference blend mode.
I don't understand how you reproduced these steps. The file I uploaded is already in sRGB.
Anyway, I repeated the entire procedude carefully, the result is the same.
The raw file can be downloaded from http://www.panopeeper.com/Download/CCC_ISO0100_01208.ARW, the adjustment parameters are in http://www.panopeeper.com/Download/CCC_ISO0100_01208.xmp
With these files it is possible to repeate the entire process.
Pls note, that the conversion from raw to TIFF occured in 16bit mode, I converted the demo file to 8bit in order to reduce the size.

Color Space Identity Plates

What color space should Identity Plates be in. Considering the fact that I do not know the working color space I am working in Lightroom with raw files. I am concerned about color space mismatches when printing (in the print module) a raw file and identity plate in a layout. How does Lightroom handle two files printed simultaneously like this in a layout. What is converted to what before it is converted to my printer profile. As it stands I have identity plates stored on disk as sRGB and they seem to be printing slightly darker than they should. Have tried converting them to a 1.8 (Prophoto) gamma space and no change.

In my experience, LR just does the right thing and translates whatever you have to the printer profile. It always comes out just right. Your observation seems to support that as you see no difference between sRGB and ppRGB. The difference in darkness might simply be a small calibration or monitor brightness issue.

Color space export issues...

Well. This has been going on for a while. Sometimes it doesnt happen but most of the time when I export my images in srgb the view once uploaded is much depreciated. I proof in srgb 2.1 and embed upon export. The same thing happens with using the boarderfx export plugin. In addition, it seems to happen more after exporting to PS for edit and then exporting the tiffs to jpg later. But happens with normal jpg/raws as well. Thanks a lot for all the help and hopefully I can get this solved
Aaron

I don't mean "Quick Look" in Leopard. I mean Quick Preview in Aperture (a little button in the lower right corner that turns yellow when selected). I believe that, although not as seductive as the native screen display, Quick Preview is more accurate.
Here is what I mean by accurate:
• Quick Preview changes the display significantly and matches closely prints made from Aperture when printed on the paper for which I have selected the proof profile (in Aperture under View / Proofing Profile).
• Quick Preview displays an image that is nearly identical to that printed from Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat when the same paper and profile are used.
• Prints made from Aperture are nearly identical to those made from PS, ID, and Acrobat using the same parameters.
• Quick Preview displays an image that is nearly identical to that displayed in Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat when the same print profile is selected for soft proofing in these applications.
There is a wild card though: these days I print mostly using perceptual rendering intent. Aperture does not appear to provide any direct control over rendering intent or black point comp for softproofing. Native display in Aperture (with the correct profile selected for on screen proofing) is much closer to a PS soft proof of the same image using RelCol rendering intent in PS. In this case the difference seems to be perhaps in the implementation of black point comp.
It would sure be nice if we had full documentation of this stuff and didn't have to make suppositions about its functionality based on empirical data.
If you know of a way to soft proof in Aperture (that permits my workflow instead of imposing one) that allows for simultaneous editing I would be much obliged.
OK, I just did a little more poking around. Quick Preview appears to preview the image in the working color space, and what I was calling "native display mode" is using the selected soft proof profile. But on my system it is not accurate with my printer profiles. Not even close. Like I said this might be due to lack of control over rendering intent and black point compensation. (I also just noted that the soft proof display does not incorporate BPC. You can see this by creating a preview through the print dialog and comparing the result to the screen display.)
Though soft proofing seems to be broken, at least for me, I have answered my own question: My working space is close enough to (and obviously includes the full gamut of) my print profiles that I can select my working space profile for soft proofing (which it does use accurately since Aperture is also using the same profile to convert the RAW file to for export) which will allow me to edit while soft proofing in a valid color space with consistent rendering intent and application of BPC.
Flame off, over and out.

Color space-creating a book in My publisher-.when I look at the share book pre print the colors are all dulled out. I work in pro photo rgb in LR and PS -.My Pub is sRGB-.where is the problem?

Color space…creating a book in My publisher….when I look at the share book pre print the colors are all dulled out. I work in pro photo rgb in LR and PS ….My Pub is sRGB….where is the problem?

I finally got to my references. This had to do with "soft proofing" on screen in Photoshop.
So this may not help you at all. Re: Strange sRGB soft-proofing behavior So go ahead and leave that setting at Basic.
However there is a Color Management forum that you also go to and see if anyone has answers for your particular problem.
Here is the link: Color management
I hope they can help you out.
Gene

RGB Working Color SPace ....

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