RGB / CMYK Color Space View

This might be a really basic question, but can anyone tell me how I can toggle between the "RGB Color Space View" and "CMYK Color Space View" in the color picker menu box? Thanks.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no CMYK Color Space View in the color picker. You determine whether the swatch you create is RGB, CMYK or LAB by clicking in one of the fields of each color model.
Peter

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In the toolbar I click on color face and see the RGB color space view. How do I put them into CMYK?

In the toolbar left I click on color face and see the RGB color space view. How do I put them into CMYK?
German:
In der Werkzeugleiste klicke ich auf Farbfläche und sehe den RGB-Farbraumansicht. Wie stelle ich diese in CMYK um?

I design print material. I hope Adobe will change it.
The ID Color Picker works the same as Photoshop's classic color picker except that it doesn't have an H,S,B presentation (which is the more intuitive interface). So both programs let you choose an R, G, B and L, a, b presentation of color via the 6 radio buttons, and you can pick RGB, Lab or CMYK versions of the chosen color—the mode you get depends on where your cursor is. If you pick an out-of-gamut CMYK color it is brought into gamut in the Swatches or Color panels after you click OK.
So here I'm picking RGB, Lab and CMYK Swatches or Colors of the color selection because my cursor is in a respective RGB, Lab or CMYK field, note that the Add Swatch button changes accordingly:
When I click inside the color field, the CMYK values are a color managed conversion of the chosen color, but I also have the option of entering any value. So it would be unlikely I would get a blue gray color like 50|0|0|50 with a color managed conversion, but I have the option to enter those specific numbers.
The 3 versions of the color added as swatches
An InDesign document can have a mix of RGB, Lab, and CMYK colors. Colors and swatches can be converted to any CMYK destination space when you export or print.

PDF in CMYK color space?

I'm working on the most recent version of Pages from iWork 2008 running on the most recent version of Leopard, and I have to create a PDF in the CMYK color space for publication, but I do not have Acrobat Distiller.
Is it possible to create a CMYK PDF with ColorSync filters? I have tried using the "Generate PDF-X/3" filter, with "Generic CMYK" as the target profile and transparency flattening, but the printer still says that my PDF is in the RGB color space. If not, is there any other way to create a CMYK PDF from Pages or to convert a RGB PDF or PostScript file to CMYK using ColorSync Utility? Are there any alternatives without purchasing Adobe Acrobat? What about if I first convert images to the CMYK color space before importing them to Pages?
I have seen similar questions posted elsewhere, but I can't find a straight answer anywhere.

1. Obtain the ICC profile from the printer for his output device.
Correct. Either the shop printing condition or an ISO 12647 printing condition to which the shop can configure and calibrate the printing condition it is selling you. If the latter, you can get default ICC printer profiles for standard printing conditions at www.eci.org.
2. Create a filter in ColorSync Utility for generating PDF/X-3 documents with the ICC profile as the output intent (besides flattening the transparency and applying an appropriate resolution).
Correct.
3. Print to PDF in Pages.
Incorrect.
Your PDF/X-3 filter will become available in the system dialog for File > Print > Save as PDF. In saving as PDF you pick your PDF/X-3 filter as the template for the save process.
4. Use ColorSync Utility to modify the resulting PDF with the filter I created in ColorSync Utility.
(or 3-4. Print directly to PDF through the filter from Pages)
Your second step to combine 3 and 4 is correct, your first step 4 to save to disk and then postprocess in the ColorSync utility is incorrect.
5. Send this PDF/X-3 to the printer.
Correct.
It seems that no hard conversion from RGB to CMYK should be necessary if I take these steps, is that correct?
Correct.
If I send the printer a PDF in the RGB color space, should it cause problems for him to convert the PDF himself to the color space of his output device?
No.
You create three channel RGB images in the RGB colourant data model (it's just a model, it is not a colour space which a size and a shape of the gamut).
You save your colourants to disk in TIFF or PDF format with the ICC profile for the capture colour space (e.g. the ICC profile for your specific scanner with a Kodak EktaChrome IT8) or correction colour space (e.g. Joseph Holmes' RGB working space for EktaChrome). This ICC profile is the _colour space_ that you can view in the ColorSync Utility as a specific size and shape of gamut. The colour space determines what colours the colourants in your TIFF or PDF image should reproduce on different colour devices.
You now have a pagination with photographic objects in three component RGB, and you know what colours those colourants are supposed to reproduce. You then include the production profile for the printing condition. Your source profiles must match to this destination profile in the matching session, so all your photographs get converted to the SAME ink limit, the SAME graybalance and so forth. This unifies the inking behaviour and the colour formation for your printing.
If you imagine that in your pagination you place photographs which are manually converted into four component CMYK using a different ink limit, a different graybalance and so forth then you have not unified your inking behavour and colour formation for the printing process. This is IDIOTIC because the only way to correct in this case is to change the calibration of the individual inking zones on the offset press - increasing or decreasing the cyan, magenta, yellow or black for that zone.
It used to be that lithography on the press was the only way to work. This was in the days of EPS and EPS DCS, and before that in the days of photographic printing masters pasted together manually piece by piece to make the printing planes. Nobody in their right mind works that way today.
/hh

How to change the color picker/color space view?

I wanted to change the color picker/color space view to what it looks like in the other Adobe programs. I have gotten used to using the color picker from the other programs and I have had problems with the look and function of this color view.
In InDesign the color picker looks like this:
And the Photoshop/Illustrator/etc. looks like this:
I've tried changing the "Convert To Profile..." and the Transparency Blend Space, but neither have done anything to what I want to be done.
Is there some way to change this in InDesign?
Note: I want to change the looks of the gradient-like area if that isn't obvious.

I was wanting to do the same change as you, until I saw your two images.
Within the InDesign image you've selected a dark blue colour (R:16, G:49, B:152) AND you've got the (R)ed channel selected.
Within the Photoshop image you've selected a white colour(R:255, G:255, B:255) AND you've got the (H)ue channel selected.
In Photoshop I can recreate both of your images by having the same settings for RGB/CMYK and selecting the same channel item as you have in those images.
That's all.
There is no difference between the two colour selection dialogs except where the HSB, RGB, CMYK and LAB are placed.

RGB Working Color SPace ....

I'm very confused with this stuff ...
I read that when we setup Photoshop we should set the working color space
rgb to Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB .... fine I understand this up to a point.
However what happend if the monitor can not display the color space ?
For example when I display the Color Picker on my external NEC monitor
everything always looks good but on my internal laptop monitor there is
banding in the Color Picker.
If I set the working color space to srgb then the banding disapears.
So just how should I set all this up ?

Michael,
rely on a calibrated precision monitor (not the laptop),
define all images by AdobeRGB and improve them by Levels,
Curves and Sharpening.
Check occasionally by Proof Colors / Gamut Warning
(using the monitor profile) whether the colors are out
of gamut for the monitor.
The monitor is probably not the final output device.
If the output device should be e.g. offset ISOCoated,
then check by Proof Colors / Gamut Warning whether the
colors are out of gamut for ISOCoated. If this should
be the case, then modify the RGB source until only small
parts of the image are out of gamut (yellow blossoms).
Otherwise larger parts might be affected by posterization
(blue sky).
Theoretically one can use 'desaturate by 20%', which should
show larger space colors mapped to the smaller space.
I don't use it, I'm preferring the gamut warning - recently
for a couple of landscape photos with very blue skies,
yellow blossoms and orange sunsets.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

For P.O.D. Printing: How to Set Adobe RGB Color Space

Hello and thanks in advance,
(I'm using InDesign CS 5.5 on a Mac.)
I need to set the proper PDF export settings
For printing a book on demand, with color drawings inside on the text pages.
The onnly instructions that I have been able to find, say this:
"Submit your graphics in the Adobe RGB color space, withprofile embedded."
The Big Question: How do I do that ?
I know enough to start with
File --> Adobe PDF Presets --> Press Quality
Then I click on the "Output Menu"
and here's where I start to get lost.
for
Color Conversion ...
I think I should select "Convert to Destination"
for
Destination
I think it should be "Adobe RGB (1998)"
Now in order to embed this profile,
What should I select under:
Profile Inclusion Policy ?
And is there anything else I should be doing to get these inside color images printing nicely ?
Thanks again,
IthacaAuthor (aka ZorbaTheGeek, but the forum would not let me log in with my old screen name)

Virtually all digital printing is done via either PostScript or PDF. In the former case, the PDF is converted to PostScript viat use of Acrobat and in the latter case, the PDF is sent directly to the digital printer.
In either case, CMYK is in fact the actual destination color space. There are no real RGB printers!!! What is true is that non-PostScript / non-PDF printers (typically low end laser and inkjet printers as well as specialized inkjet and dye sublimation photo printers) do take in RGB via drivers and convert that to CMYK, but I don't believe that is what you are dealing with.
Our recommendation at Adobe for best printing results, whether for offset or digital printing, is to export PDF as PDF/X-4 with no color conversion using the default CMYK color space (SWOP CMYK) or if instructed otherwise by your print service provider, one of the other CMYK color spaces provided by Adobe or by the print service provider themselves. FWIW, most on-demand digital print devices do have settings to fully emulate SWOP CMYK printing conditions. Using PDF/X-4 in this manner allows the existing color content in your InDesign document to be properly tagged in the output PDF file and converted to CMYK at the digital printing device's RIP.
(It might also assist us if you can provide a pointer to the explicit instructions provided by your print service provider.)
- Dov

Why do I get two different RGB equivalents for one CMYK color?

I’m helping someone incorporate their blue logo into business cards and a branding guide. The Illustrator file they gave me of their logo is set to the CMYK color space, so I used these CMYK values for their branding guide. When I click on the RGB tab to see the converted values for the CMYK color, they are insanely different from the RGB equivalent I get when using an online color converter, like Adobe Kuler. In both InDesign and Illustrator, the CMYK values for the blue logo are 79, 56, 2, 0 and when I click on the RGB tab in InDesign or Illustrator, these programs tell me that the RGB equivalent is 69, 112, 179. However, when I use the Adobe Kuler website and plug in the CMYK values, the website (and other websites like it) tell me that the RGB equivalent to this CMYK color is actually 54, 112, 250. I’m not sure which RGB value is actually correct.
That said, I tried plugging in the RGB values I get from the design software into the Adobe Kuler color converter, and I get totally different CMYK values than what the design software tells me. Which color values do I include on the client's branding guide?
I've heard that blue colors are notoriously hard to convert between RGB and CMYK, and I'm wondering if that's why I'm getting these drastically different values from different color conversion tools. I've also read that different ICC profiles might affect the CMYK/RGB values in the design program, but I'm not well-versed in this. Please help!!

the CMYK values for the blue logo are 79, 56, 2, 0 and when I click on the RGB tab in InDesign or Illustrator, these programs tell me that the RGB equivalent is 69, 112, 179.
69|112|179 is the conversion you'll get using the default North American General Purpose Color Settings—or US Web Coated SWOP v2 converted to sRGB. As Willi implies there are many flavors of CMYK and RGB so different sources and destinations, as well as the conversion intent, will produce different results.
So "branding" color this way doesn't really work because 79|56|2|0 CMYK will look very different on newsprint than it will on a GRAcol profiled press with glossy paper, and 69|112|179 RGB will look very different in a CC app with a ProPhoto RGB assignment then it will look in a web browser with no profile assigned.
The best you can do is qualify the values—79|56|2|0 US Web Coated (SWOP) v2 CMYK = 69|112|179 sRGB IEC6196-2.1 RGB

Color space conversion due to transparency ...

Hi there!
Let's assume we have a document that contains two RGB images, one of them is set to 70 % transparency. When printing to PDF, the 70 % transparent RGB image is converted to CMYK, the other one retains its RGB color space ...
I seem to understand that this is due to the current transparency color space setting. I could change that to RGB.
But I wonder: Is there no way to keep the color space here, no matter if it is CMYK or RGB the images are coming with?
Thanks,
Klaus

Klaus,
To learn what happens with flattening and color, you should refer to this excellent document, "Transparency in Adobe Applications: A Print Production Guide."
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/creativesuite/articles/cs3ip_printprodtrans.pdf
Here's are relevant section (page 24):
Printing transparency: step-by-step
When printing a page containing live transparency from InDesign CS3 and the Transparency Blend Space is set to Document CMYK, the following steps will take place (steps 3 and 6 may perform color conversions):
1 Transparency is detected on a spread by the Flattener.
2 The Flattener refers to the Transparency Blend Space setting to determine the appropriate color space in which to blend transparent objects. In this example, Document CMYK was selected. The Document CMYK color space is determined by the active color settings (Edit > Color Settings).
3 Any image that is tagged with a color space that differs from the selected blend space is converted to Document CMYK.
4 The Flattener flattens the transparency.
5 The flattened data is passed to the print engine.
6 The print engine compares the color information in the flattened data with the Printer Profile color space set in the Print dialog box. If the color settings dont match, the print engine converts the colors to the color space indicated by the Printer Profile.
7 The color-managed job is printed.

Color Space Question For Printing

I have multiple newbie questions so please bear with me
Normally when working in photoshop, I tend to use the RGB color space as I need the use of filters and other effects not available in CMYK, Now when printing flyers E.g A4 Sized I tend to save the PSD in RGB (Without Flattening) and then importing it into a CMYK color space in illustrator and then exporting as a PDF, as illustrator gives me the option to create bleed as well as trim marks, I have never exported a PDF from photoshop as it always gives me the option of photoshop pdf which is kinda heavy.
My question is, is the process I use okay for printing? or do I first need to convert it into CMYK? or just export from photoshop itself? Also, the other reason I use illustrator is if i'm making a business card with two sides, since text is better exported from illustrator.
Could anyone tell me a simpler process for creating for digital print? Especially if I need to do some items in illustrator as well.

>> images are still a bit washed out with a warmish/ yellow cast to them, particularly, my black and white images
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if the monitor profile is reasonably good:
Open a RGB file in Photoshop (flatten if not already flattened).
Press M key> Drag a selection> Com+Shift+U (Desaturate).
Com+Z (to toggle back and forth).
If the unsaturated selection looks neutral you've got a reasonably fair monitor profile.
If selection has color casts (not neutral) -- you have a bad monitor profile
+++++
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if a bad monitor profile is whacking out your Photoshop color:
Monitors/Displays (control panel)> Color> highlight AppleRGB or sRGB (don't run Calibrate), quit and reboot.
If the Photoshop colors are back under control, then the problem was most surely a bad monitor profile go back into Monitors/Displays> Color and Calibrate a good profile highlight (load) sRGB, or preferably, the monitor's OEM profile as a starting point.
If you are using a puck, it is likely defective; or your monitor hardware is the culprit...search it on Google by model number

Need CMYK for printer... but msg "document is using CMYK blend space..." concerning

Hello all,
I need to create an output PDF that is CMYK for the printer.
I thought I was doing everything correctly until I got this message that was generated when I selected Export (to PDF), "The document is using CMYK space. Colors are converted to RGB in interactive PDF files. To avoid color changes, click Cancel and choose Document RGB from the Edit > Transparency Blend Space menu. Click OK to continue."
So, I think this means that the PDF export is being saved in an RGB color space. Is that a correct interpretation? If so, how do I preserve the CMYK color space because that is what the commercial printer requires? Is that even possible or relevant?
Thank you

You are a lifesaver!
I was wondering what that "interactive PDF" thing was all about. I didn't release that it was simply an Export As... error. I must have inadvertently selected it at some point.
Thanks a million!

Exclamation in CMYK color mode

Every time I try to choose a color in CMYK it always gives me the exclamation mark with a color that isn't even close to what I'm trying to use. When I click on the color below the exclamation, it still won't give it to me. What is the purpose of this and how can I get it to give me the proper color?

D3_Designs wrote:
... When I click on the color below the exclamation, it still won't give it to me...
Unlike the Color panel, the colors displayed in the Color Picker are not color managed. This means that the colors are displayed in the color space of your monitor without any correction that simulates a color space. When you click on the suggested color that is within the gamut it gives you the correct numbers but still not the correct display because the corrected values are still not displayed in the CMYK color space of the document but in the color space of your monitor. As such the Color Picker is not a reliable tool to pick color visually, instead use the Color panel. In the Color panel the color spectrum bar is color managed to be always displayed in the color space of the document so, if you pick colors from it you will never get out of gamut warning even if you use RGB or any other sliders. The actual slider portion and the fill and stroke colors are displayed in the color spaces set for the working spaces in your color settings so you may get a color outside the RGB color spectrum and get a warning only if you type the values or use the RGB or HSB sliders to get out of gamut values but not if you pick the colors from the color spectrum bar.
The Gamut warning is for the CMYK color space set in your color preferences which by default is U.S. web coated swap v2. with a a standard color space for offset printing. If you are going to use another printer, ask the print shop for the color profile file of their printer and assign it as the CMYK color space in your Color Preferences. It may give you larger gamut of colors.

Script for color space conversion RGB to CMYK - URGENT Help Wanted

Excuse my ignorance with the basic nature of this question, I don't use InDesign, but I do have a pressing problem regarding it.
My book publisher has just emailed to say that my photography book has been set for the printers in InDesign and the photographs have AdobeRGB color space (which was what I was aksed to send.) The printer needs the images to be in CMYK. The publisher said that he was "pretty sure Adobe Acrobat converts the InDesign files to CMYK" and that he has sent the printer RGB images in the past and they "came out OK". He said that if this will not work, he needs to convert all of the images separately to CMYK.
Can you help with the following:
1. Is he right about the above - can Adobe Acrobat convert the files?
2. Can anyone offer me a script that will convert all of the images in InDesign to CMYK? or will he need to change them individually?
Thanks for any suggestions with this urgent request.
Stephen

1. Acrobat can convert.
2. No need for a script, if the printer needs CMYK, you can export a CMYK pdf.
3. To get the highest quality conversions, you might want to do it in Photoshop.
4. If the images are color managed and the printer has a modern work-flow a color managed RGB PDFX-4 pdf is probably the best way to go...
Harbs

Converting RGB to CMYK color

Hi All,
I have few BASIC Questions on converting RGB to CMYK in Photoshop and Illustrator. Hope could get some professional insights here.
1, Are all the DTG printers set only in CMYK color mode ?
2, If there is no difference after viewing RGB image with 'Gamaut Warning' (Photoshop), Does that mean I'll have the exact print result as monitor view ?
and Basically no need for CMYK conversion ?
3, Please list some the most effective way to convert RGB to CMYK, and keep the final CMYK color result as close as the RGB.
4, when I simply convert one RGB image to CMYK color, why Ps/AI don't allow me to save as PNG file ?
( I save the file as PDF, but I cannot edit this PDF using apple preview app )
5, compare Photoshop to Illustrator, which one result better final CMYK color image ?

Thanks for the detailed reply. Sure clear some of the doubts.
I just start to draw/design in Photoshop and illustrator, I save my files most as PNG, for a transparent background.
After I went to officework do the poster printing, I found the color of my print image are not as vivid as Mac preview.
To be precise, the poster I printed looks like has a very thin grey layer, it is not much noticeable, but it indeed lost some vivid color. As I want to print out my works and keep color as close exact as Mac preview, here is the issue of coverting RGB CMYK.
Please feel free to add for below:
1, Should I set color space in CMYK before drawing in PS/AI
2, in PS, I convert profile from PNG file to CMYK save as psd file, that psd file preview exactly same as PNG.
But when saved as PDF, the file preview a bit grey. Can someone explain this?
3, Now im thinking, since CMYK is all about printers, it really should be the profession in printing shop who shall check my image, and edit/convert to the right color space to fit their printers.

How to Get RGB Values from a CMYK Color in the DOM (CS5)

(CS5, Actionscript)
Hi all,
I have an InDesign document containing TextFrames whose border colors are specified as a CMYK array.
I would like to be able to get its color specification as its closest RGB equivalent.
Does the InDesign DOM contain a method for doing this for me automatically? If not, what workarounds are there?
TIA,
mlavie

Here's how to convert RGB to CMYK:
function rgb2CMYK (r,g,b){
    var color = app.documents[0].colors.add({space:ColorSpace.RGB,colorValue:[r,g,b]});
    color.space = ColorSpace.CMYK;
    var retVal = color.colorValue;
    color.remove();
    return retVal;
The same idea for the reverse.
For info on converting to grayscale, check out this:
http://in-tools.com/article/scripts-blog/convert-colors-to-grayscal-in-indesign/
HTH,
Harbs

Can Acrobat X Standard create PDF files from Microsoft Word, using "CMYK" color (required by most book printers) instead of "RGB" color?

I'd like to purchase Acrobat Standard if it will let me control the color space used in the PDF it creates. I need to send a color file to a commercial book printer, and they require the PDF file to use CMYK colors, not RGB.
Will Acrobat Standard do this, and if so, how? Or do I need to get a different Adobe product for this task?

I'd like to purchase Acrobat Standard if it will let me control the color space used in the PDF it creates. I need to send a color file to a commercial book printer, and they require the PDF file to use CMYK colors, not RGB.
Will Acrobat Standard do this, and if so, how? Or do I need to get a different Adobe product for this task?

RGB / CMYK Color Space View

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