Stacking order vs. Layers?

I'm coming from working with layers in Photoshop and understanding how they work in there. Illustrator also has layers, though you are able to also change the stacking order of items on a given layer  by using the object > send to back or forward.
1. Why would you want to send items to the front or back and not just use layers?
2. When do you want to put an item on a new layer vs. just changing its stacking order?
Thanks.

Stan,
The point you are missing is a conceptual problem common among many users who have some experience with Photoshop (or other raster image program), but next to none with programs like Illustrator (drawing programs) or InDesign (page assembly programs).
The key difference is this: Fundamentally, a Photoshop file is, ultimately, one single raster image. An Illustrator (InD, CorelDraw, FreeHand, Canvas, Flash, Firworks, etc., etc.) file is a collection of individual objects.
In object-based programs, all the objects are located somewhere in one big Z-stacking order. Think of Layers in these kinds of programs as just one heirarchal "level" of "grouping" contiguous objects within the stack. There are several other such organizational "levels". For example:
AnchorPoints exist in the one big Z stacking order. Sets of contiguous anchorPoints are "grouped" (connected) into paths.
Sets of contiguous paths are sometimes "grouped" (combined) into compound paths.
Sets of contiguous objects—including paths and/or text objects and/or raster images (each with its own color model, color depth, rotation, scale, DPI)—can be "grouped" into Groups.
Sets of contiguous objects can be "grouped" into (reside on) Layers.
Groups can be nested. You can have Groups inside other Groups.
Layers can be nested. You can have SubLayers inside other Layers.
In Illustrator and some other vector drawing programs, the Layers palette does not just list Layers. It lists every object on each Layer.
All this organizational scheme is useful and important because of that one fundamental difference: These are object based programs. Now compare this to Photoshop. Yes, a Photoshop document can have Layers. But what is a Photoshop Layer really? It's just another raster image of the same color mode, same color depth, and same pixel count as the Layer(s) underneath or above it. The color values of corresponding pixels in any of the channels of each Layer can be mathematically combined to result in the color you see in that pixel location on your monitor and in the final result. But you don't have a stack of independent raster images. Think about it: In Photoshop, you don't have a 100 PPI CMYK image in Layer 1 while you have a 300 PPI RGB image in Layer 2.
But in an object-based program, you can have a stack of any number of raster images, and each one can be scaled independently without loosing any of its pixels. In other words, the pixels in individual raster images on the page can be different sizes from the pixels in other raster images on the same page. Then you can throw live text objects and paths into the mix, as well.
So more elaborate and flexible ways to organize objects is critically important in these kinds of programs. Example:
You set up a Layer to contain the background raster images of a magazine ad. There are several images, and they are independently scaled and positioned, sometimes overlapping. They need to be sorted in Z-order within that Layer. The Layer enables that particular set of objects (raster images) to be treated as if they were one object.
In the same ad, you set up a Layer to contain the body text.
In the same ad, you set up a Layer to contain the photo captions.
In the same ad, you set up a Layer to contain an elaborate vector illustration.
Within that vector illustration are hundreds of individual objects. Those are organized into subLayers and/or Groups. But the parent Illustration Layer lets you turn off visiblilty or lock the whole Illustration.
And so on. So there are counless reasons "why you would want to send items to front or back" or change the stacking order of objects within a specific Layer—because there are countless situations in which different organizational levels make sense in terms of working efficiency. There is no single one-size-fits-all answer to your question. But trust me, all the Z-stack organizational "levels" are important. And they are all standard fare in object-based vector illustration and page layout programs.
JET

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  • Object Stacking Order in Acrobat 8

    I don't know if this is some sort of bug or if I'm just really stupid, but I was working on adding alt text to some figures in my Acrobat document and I saved and closed it. When I reopened it, it had changed the stacking order of some of my objects.. for example I have some logos that appear above a semi-transparent oval and after opening the file again it's now sitting behind the oval. I've searched through ever ******* control bar and what not I can find on Acrobat but I can't find anything like "move backwards" or "move forwards" like there is in InDesign and Illustrator.
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    HA! I thought I was being smart and opening the PDF in Illustrator so that I could move the layers back... of course then I lost my reading order and my alt tags bringing me back to square one.
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  • Randomise Layer Stacking Order in AE CS3

    Hi,
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    Thanks!
    J

    As Jonas mentioned, the KindaSorta script from Jeff Almasol does what you're looking for. A link to this script appears in the
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    In fact, many dozens of scripts from Jeff are linked to from the pages of After Effects CS3 Help on the Web.
    Try this Google search:
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  • Stacking order on PrEl 9 not working

    I am trying to change the stacking order on simultaneous multiple video tracks.  I have two tracks on the screen, I select one from the timeline and then right click on it in the monitor panel -- the option of Title>Arrange doesn't come up.  When I go to the options bar at the top of the page and click Title>Arrange, it will not let me select it.  In the help topics, PrEl 7 & 8 are covered with these instructions, but 9 is not.  Any ideas?  Thanks a million if you can solve this!  -JD

    As Steve points out, the "stacking order," or Arrangement is only available for elements in a Title, like Shapes, or Text.
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  • Stacking Order of Elements

    Hey All!
    I'm enjoying our recent move to Cap. 2, lot's of great new
    features. I've run into a bit of an oddity and am planning to
    submit a bug report, but wanted to toss it out here first.
    Here is what I am doing and experiencing:
    1. Record a demonstration project.
    2. Highlight an area of the project and select Fill Outer
    Area check box.
    3. Insert a text caption, and set the text caption to be
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    caption is not grayed out by the outer fill).
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    5. Copy the highlight and text caption and paste them on the
    next slide (there is typing happening on both slides and I am
    highlighting the set of fields being completed).
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    order in the timline.
    7. Set the highlight and caption on slide 2 to fade out only.
    The slides are set to stream with no transitions or user
    interaction.
    When I preview or publish slide 1 works as expected -
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    falls behind the outer fill and is greyed out like the background.
    Workaround:
    I have found that all is good if I duplicate the text caption
    on slide 2 and delete the one I originally pasted in. It isn't a
    big pain, but it is a waste of effort after working through several
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    I'll be submitting a bug report and wanted to share the fix I
    found. Any other ideas?
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    I just realized one error in my steps above.
    In step 3 above I say to set the text caption above - I just
    realized to make what I describe happen have the text caption below
    the highlight initially. So the steps should be...
    1. Record a demonstration project.
    2. Insert a text caption.
    3. Highlight an area of the project and select Fill Outer
    Area check box. (At this point the highlight will be above the text
    caption in the timeline).
    4. Set the highlight and caption to fade in only.
    5. Copy the highlight and text caption and paste them on the
    next slide (there is typing happening on both slides and I am
    highlighting the set of fields being completed).
    6. Set the highlight and caption on slide 2 to fade out only.
    7. Realize you have the stacking order wrong and fix it on
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    Rory

  • Stacking Order of Duplicated MCs

    I have a Flash piece that duplicates a random number of
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    can see it here:
    http://litmusbox.com/staging2/
    Trouble is, the duplicated MCs are being placed on top of
    other artwork. The duplicates appear on top of the text on the left
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    See my code attached. I'm not sure how "depth" applies here.
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    Any ideas?

    to 'contain' these clips at a particular depth - create an
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    the attach all of these clips to that instance, including the
    initial block, if you wish to use duplicate. you could simply use
    attachMovie - but this will work also.
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    values, as these are reserved for the elements within the IDE. in
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  • Stacking Order of pageItems in CS5

    I have not been able to get the correct stacking order of pageItems within a layer/page (in CS5). This was simple to do in CS4 as something like this (CurrentPageItem = myPage.pageItems[i];) would return pageItems in the actual stacking order in the document.
    With CS5 all textframes come together and all rectangles come together, irrespective of them stacked in any order (TextFrame, Rectangle, TextFrame,.... would come out as TextFrame, TextFrame and Rectangle). Some solutions already in the forum point to changing to older version (6.0), but I don't want to do that.
    Can there be a way to determine STACKING ORDER within the layer/page in CS5?

    Hi Rich,
    The fact is that you are right and we are—partially—wrong. More precisely, the answer is incomplete in that it does not account for another issue: PageItems is a meta-collection which, in fact, target specific sub-collections (Rectangles, Ovals, TextFrames, etc.). Browsing within a PageItems collection by indexes may lead to something very tricky when different kind of underlying objects are involved.
    Let's study the following layout:
    This is a single-page document having three simple top-level items: a Rectangle, a TextFrame, and an Oval.
    Considering the myDoc.PageItems collection, I don't know exactly how the internal indices are managed in that collection, but as it has been said a PageItem.index property returns a z-order, we can check this:
    var doc = app.activeDocument;
    var pgItems = doc.pageItems; // a PageItems collection
    alert( pgItems.everyItem().index );
    // => 0,2,1  (depending on the z-order)
    // These are indices within the spread.PageItems collection
    The resulting order, [0,2,1], indicates that:
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    pgItems[1] has the z-level 2 (back)
    pgItems[2] has the z-level 1 (middle)
    From that we can infer that pgItems[0] refers to the Oval, pgItems[1] refers to the Rectangle, and pgItems[2] refers to the TextFrame.
    But, what is really misleading is the following test:
    alert([
        pgItems[0].index,
        pgItems[1].index,
        pgItems[2].index
    // => 0,0,0 !!
    As you can see, pgItems[ i ].index returns 0 (zero) for each item, whereas we just have seen that pgItems.everyItem().index returns [0,2,1]. How is it possible?
    In fact, the weird [0,0,0] result reflects indexes within the respective Rectangles, Ovals, TextFrames collections (each has a single element).
    In other words, pgItems[ i ].index is actually resolved as pgItems[ i ].getElements()[0].index. This makes it practically very difficult to keep a relevant connection between the everyItem().index Array and the actual z-order of the page items. I think this is the reason for the issue you mention.
    So, how to do? As a general rule, never rely on collection indices to identify an element. The only way to unambiguously and unvariantly refer to an object is to use the id property. If you need to deal with z-orders, backup the information in a id-to-zorder structure. Here is an approach:
    var zOrderById = {},
        itemZO = pgItems.everyItem().index,
        itemIds = pgItems.everyItem().id,
        i = pgItems.length;
    while( i-- )
        zOrderById[itemIds[i]] = itemZO[i];
    Then you can use zOrderById[ pgItems[ i ].id ] to retrieve the z-order of the i-indexed item in the pgItems collection:
    alert( zOrderById[ pgItems[0].id ] ); // => 0
    alert( zOrderById[ pgItems[1].id ] ); // => 2
    alert( zOrderById[ pgItems[2].id ] ); // => 1
    Of course, given a page item, myItem, you also can directly use: zOrderById[myItem.id].
    @+
    Marc

  • Stacking order

    How do I change the stacking order of Display Objects in AS3?
    I have a semi-transparent caption box that is supposed to be on top of externally loaded images. no matter where I place the script for that box in the code, the images always load on top of it. Is there a solution?
    Thanks!

    It would be better to see your code first, but there are some things you could try.
    you could use two methods to swap those displayObjects:
    swapChildren(obj1, obj2);
    wapChildrenAt(0,1);
    You could also try to add your caption box to the top of the stacking order of your displayObject that's serving as its container with addChildAt(captionBox, 5);
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    I didn't test it, but it should work fine.
    If you're first adding the caption before the images, using simply addChild(newImage); won't do. You should use addChildAt(newImage, 0); instead. This will add the image to the bottom of the stacking order.
    Hope you solve your problem!

  • Premiere CC 2014 - Copy/pasting effects doesn't maintain stacking order

    For as long as I can remember Premiere doesn't seem to honour/maintain the stacking order of effects when you copy them from one clip to another. This is an absolutely huge issue as most people perfect their video/audio effects on a sample clip and then copy to the others. But what is the point of that process if the copy/paste command rearranges the stack order of the effects!
    For example I generally use Dynamics, EQ and Volume effects on my audio to add some compression and level out my audio. The levels that the Dynamics is taking as 'input' is very important so EQ and Volume effects are most often stacked on after the results from the Dynamics has been spat out. Yet, when I copy/paste my perfected order and settings, Dynamics always drops to the bottom of the stack which produces a vastly different audio result.
    I then need to individually move the Dynamics effect back up the stack on every single clip that I've pasted my settings to. This is a really horrible bug/oversight. While on the topic of bugs, when you add 'Volume' effect to a custom favourites bin, it seems to not be able to be applied from here on subsequent restarts of Premiere.
    Or am I missing something in the copy/paste process regarding maintaining the effects stack???
    Lance

    Thanks Mark!
    I was selecting the individual effects from the clip within the 'Effect Controls' panel and then using the old CMD+C then CMD+V method to copy paste. This does indeed corrupt the stack order.
    Selecting 'Copy' from the right-click menu when clicking on a clip, and then subsequently using the 'Paste Attributes' option from the right-click menu when pasting on a clip/s does maintain stack order, so thank you for this information.
    I would assume that the first method would seem the intuitive option for most people, so it would be great to see the layer stack order maintained regardless of which method you use to copy/paste effects.
    Thanks again.
    Lance

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