System identification for open loop unstable plant?

Hello,
I have been trying to use system identification on labview. My problem is that my plant is open loop unstable and none of the tutorials or examples I have found seem to cover this so I cannot get it to work. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I should go about it? My plant has an RC servo so it needs a PWM signal to stimulate it.
Thanks
Adam

adamkse wrote:
I want to control my plant with lead/lag control but I do not know the plant model which makes this very difficult. I cannot theoretically calculate it because the information I need to obtain a numerical transfer function or state space model is unavailable.
I have it controlled with PID at the moment but this is not ideal.
I am trying to use the system identification toolkit to obtain a transfer function but I do not know what to do because the examples do not work for open loop unstable plants.
Adam
Ok Open loop unstable functions cannot be predictably controlled (hence the terms; open loop and unstable,) Not being able to model the actions is a bit of a problem too.
Somehow, someway you need to get some kind of model or some kind of feedback to either provide stability in the plant or close the loop.
Adding hardware (sensors) is the most likely solution.
tell me more about the plant, I do this kind of thing for a living, so I could offer some ideas.
Jeff

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System identification for power converter

Dear All,
i am working on system identification for the buck converter . for this i generated variable duty cycle with 20KHz switching frequency on analog output AO1 of usb 6221, now i want to introduce perturbation PRBS in steady state. now my problem is to add perturbation on analog output. please suggest me how to do this on analog output.
thanks
with regards
gurpreet singh

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RLS for system identification: problem in creating a signal + noise input.

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System Identification Assistant Signal Generator

Hello,
I am using a GW Instek power source to heat a graphite rod within a vacuum chamber. I am detecting the temperature with a K type thermocouple connected to a thermocouple input module. I have written a labview program with a PID and have everything running, yet i force tuned the PID. I would like to use the signal identification tools labview provides to identify the transfer function and model the process. I have used the system identification assitant in attempting to send a step signal and acquire a response, yet I have been running into difficulties. The only way I can perform a step function is to manually generate an output of a specified power and then measure the response, as the signal generator within the system identification software is not identifying the GW Instek PSW 30-108 power source. With manual input and importing both input and output data i am able to get a parametric model, yet the transfer function provide me PID values which are 5 orders of magnitude greater then the ones i am currently using. Ideally i would like to use the software to generate the signal and measure the response continuously rather then using data i collect through my program. If possible, I would also be interested in perhaps directly integrating VI's to perform signal analysis directly into my process program.
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Port module input works with VISA and this is how my VI is communicating with the power source.
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Attachments:
Test1_RT.vi ‏186 KB

Double post, for further Information see http://forums.ni.com/t5/LabVIEW/System-Identification-Assistant-w-o-NI-Signal-Generator/m-p/3014731#...

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hi...
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Hi ajaleelp,
Sorry for the delayed response on this, but I have a few questions for you. Are you just receiving this error at run-time? Meaning you have no broken wires or anything, but the VI stopsat the model simulation VI?
Also, have you tried our example for model simulation? You can find it here:
C\program files\national instruments\labview [version]\examples\System Identification\Getting
Started\General.llb
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Chris Van Horn
Applications Engineer

System identification miso models

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Sai

Hi Ruser,
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Reg:T-CODE for open and close period for materials(new plant).

hi sap guru's
T-code for following process
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Hi Sakthi,
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Reward points if it helps.
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Karan

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closed

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Hi All,
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Thanks and regards

Hi
If you mean opening a project in standard reports like CN41, it would be easier to use "dynamic selection option" and hard code the plant, and then save the selection version.
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Difference between open loop and closed loop mode when finding the index on a stepper motor axis.

I have a test system which uses a PXI-7352 motion controller with a MID-7602 stepper motor drive to position a 200 step/revolution stepper motor with an attached 1000 line encoder. The MID-7602 is configured for 64 microsteps per step, giving 12,800 microsteps and 4000 encoder counts per revolution. The system is controlled using LabView 7.1 and NI-Motion 6.13. To home the motor, I've defined a sequence in MAX which first finds the reverse limit switch and then moves forward to the encoder index pulse.
When finding its reference in open loop mode, the system its reference at the same microstep each time. When findings its reference in closed loop mode, the system finds its reference somewhere within about a 20 microstep wide range.
I hope somebody out there with more experience with this controller can describe the difference between finding the encoder index in open loop mode and finding the encoder index in closed loop mode.
Thanks,
Mark Moss

Hello Mark,
I suspect that the behavior you are experiencing has today
with the resolution difference between your encoder and your
microstepping. Let me illustrate with an
example:
Example Setup
Stepper
Motor
NI
Motion Controller
10
steps per encoder pulse (Every 10 steps the controller gets an encoder
pulse, therefore positions 0-9 all appear to be 0 to the controller)
The
system has a maximum of 3 pull in moves set
Open Loop Scenario
The
system is commanded to go to position 9.
The
controller sends out 9 pulses.
The
motor moves to position 9.
Closed Loop Scenario
The
system is commanded to go to position 9.
The
controller sends out 9 pulses.
The
motor moves to position 9.
The
controller checks its position and sees that it is still at position 0
because it has not received an encoder pulse.
Because
the controller thinks it is still at position 0, it sends another 9 pulses
as its first pull in move.
The
motor moves to position 18.
The
controller checks its position and sees that it is at position 10 because
it has only received one encoder pulse.
Because
the controller thinks it is still at position 10, it sends1 reverse pulse
as its second pull in move.
The
motor moves to position 17.
The
controller checks its position and sees that it is at position 10 because
it has only received one encoder pulse.
Because
the controller thinks it is still at position 10, it sends and additional
single reverse pulse as its third pull in move.
The
motor moves to its final position of 16.
I believe something similar is happening with your
application as it looks for the index pulse.
Because the controller does not compensate for what it perceives as
position error in open loop mode, the motor always goes to the same commanded
position. In closed loop mode, the motor
is bouncing around inside the single index encoder pulse trying to find a
certain position.
There are several recommendations I can make towards
correcting this behavior. These
recommendations are in order of effectiveness:
Setup
your system so that there are more encoder counts per revolution than
steps per revolution.
Turn
off pull-in moves by setting them to 0 in MAX.
Use an
open loop configuration.
Play
around with the pull in window in MAX.
Regards,
Luke H

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Now, when i next startup Logic Express a window pops up saying There are No Apple Loops installed on your system, please re-install the apple loop package.
What should I do now?
Please help. I am feeling so exasperated

Hi Rob
Thanks so much for your prompt response. This is really bizarre.. now when i open Logic Express, I see some loops in there and the msg that appeared earlier (that no loops are found) no longer shows.
I havent done anything since my last post so i do not know why the situation changed on my lapto.
However I do notice some loops are missing.. when i look into HardDisk -> Library --> Apple --> Apple Loops, i noticed my Jam Pack Rhythm Folder is no longer there.. yet, when i play projects which utilize loops from Jam Pack Rhythm, they play ok, which makes me wonder if the folder has simply gone somewhere, or i have to reinstall them.
Help
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Is there anyone know how to Count the volume for Open Purchase Order. What's the normal strategy for the Data Migration and Cut-over stage?
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Thank you very much

JC,
Sounds a bit early to be making decisions about the realization phase. It doesn't sound like you have finished the Blueprinting phase yet, much less the testing phase.
Anyhow, in my experience I typically use LSMW (Legacy system migration workbench) to load MM master data (material masters), Inventory (WIP, RM, FG, etc) Purchasing Master data (Vendors, Purchase Info Records, Source Lists, Quota Arrangements), and Purchasing transactional documents (POs, PurReqs, Scheduling Agreements, etc). Depending on the complexity and volume of data, it may be necessary to write custom programs to load the data. You will find this out during your requirements gathering.
It is uncommon but possible to load all of these data manually. I have never run across a client that wants to pay a consultant's hourly rate to sit at a terminal to peck away loading master data, so if the client intends to have his own users enter the data manually, the project manager should make provision that there will be qualified TRAINED client employees available for this data entry. I did help with a portion of a conversion once manually; of Sales Credits, but there were only about 30 SD docs to load. I did this the evening before go-live day, while I was waiting for some of my LSMW projects to complete in the background.
A good opportunity to 'practice' your data loads is right after you have completed your development and customization, and you have gotten the approval from the client to proceed from the pilot build to the full test environment. Once you have moved your workbench and customization into the client's test environment, but before integration testing, you can mass load all, or a substantial portion of your conversion data into the qual system. You can treat it like a dry run for go-live, and fine tune your processes, as well as your LSMW projects.
Yes, it is good practice to generate comparisons between legacy and SAP even if the client doesn't ask for it. For Purchase orders on the SAP side, you could use any of the standard SAP Purchasing reports, such as ME2W, ME2M, ME2C, ME2L, ME2N. If these reports do not meet the requirements of the client, you could write a query to display the loaded data, or have an ABAPer write a custom report.
You didn't ask, but you should also do comparisons of ALL loaded data - including master data.
It sounds like you are implying that the client wants YOU to extract the legacy data. For an SAP consultant, this is not very realistic (unless the legacy system is another SAP system). Most of us do not understand the workings of the myriad legacy systems. The client is usually expected to produce one or more legacy system technical experts for you to liase with. You normally negotiate with the technical expert about every facet of of the data migration. In addition, you will liase with business users, who will help you and the implementation team to logically validate that the final solution (turnkey SAP production system, fully loaded with data) will meet the client's business needs.
Finally, you mentioned how do you track the mapping of master data between legacy and SAP. There are many ways to do this. I normally try to get the legacy person do the conversion on his end, eg, when he gives you the load file, you would like to have already translated the master data and inserted the SAP relevant values into the file. If this is not possible, I usually use MS Access databases to maintain a master map, and I perform the mapping on a PC. If your data package is small, you can probably get by using MS Excel or similar.
Good Luck,
DB49

Bapi for open PO

Hi!
Can anyone let me know where to find the bapi for open po and how to use it in my report program.
Thanks in advance.
Note: Mr Anji Reddy vangala has answered me for which iam very much thankful to him, but i need to know about the concerned bapi.
Regards,
Parwez.

Hi,
Refer the sample code below which creats PO using BAPI_PO_CREATE1.
Hope this helps your querry.
*& Report YDM_PO_CREATE                                               *
REPORT ydm_po_create.
*-- Input File Declaration
TYPES: BEGIN OF ty_input_file,
       column1 TYPE char50,
       column2 TYPE char50,
       column3 TYPE char50,
       column4 TYPE char50,
       column5 TYPE char50,
       column6 TYPE char50,
       column7 TYPE char50,
       column8 TYPE char50,
       column9 TYPE char50,
       column10 TYPE char50,
       column11 TYPE char50,
       column12 TYPE char50,
       column13 TYPE char50,
       column14 TYPE char50,
       column15 TYPE char50,
       column16 TYPE char50,
       column17 TYPE char50,
       column18 TYPE char50,
END OF ty_input_file.
DATA: i_input_file TYPE STANDARD TABLE OF ty_input_file,
      wa_input_file TYPE ty_input_file.
CONSTANTS: c_path     TYPE char20 VALUE 'C:\',
           c_mask     TYPE char9 VALUE ',*.*,*.*.',
           c_mode     TYPE char1 VALUE 'O',
           c_filetype TYPE char10 VALUE 'ASC',
           c_x        TYPE char01 VALUE 'X'.
PARAMETERS : p_fname   LIKE rlgrap-filename.
AT SELECTION-SCREEN ON VALUE-REQUEST FOR p_fname.
*-- Browse Presentation Server
PERFORM f4_presentation_file.
START-OF-SELECTION..
*-- Read presentation server file
PERFORM f1003_upload_file.
IF NOT i_input_file[] IS INITIAL.
    PERFORM split_data.
ENDIF.
*&                  Form f4_presentation_file
*&                F4 Help for presentation server
FORM f4_presentation_file .
CALL FUNCTION 'WS_FILENAME_GET'
    EXPORTING
      def_path         = c_path
      mask             = c_mask
      mode             = c_mode
      title            = text-001
    IMPORTING
      filename         = p_fname
    EXCEPTIONS
      inv_winsys       = 1
      no_batch         = 2
      selection_cancel = 3
      selection_error = 4
      OTHERS           = 5.
IF sy-subrc <> 0.
    MESSAGE ID sy-msgid TYPE sy-msgty NUMBER sy-msgno
            WITH sy-msgv1 sy-msgv2 sy-msgv3 sy-msgv4.
ENDIF.
ENDFORM.                    " f4_presentation_file
*&                      Form f1003_upload_file
*&                         Upload File
FORM f1003_upload_file .
DATA: lcl_filename TYPE string.
lcl_filename = p_fname.
CALL FUNCTION 'GUI_UPLOAD'
    EXPORTING
      filename                = lcl_filename
      filetype                = c_filetype
      has_field_separator     = c_x
    TABLES
      data_tab                = i_input_file
    EXCEPTIONS
      file_open_error         = 1
      file_read_error         = 2
      no_batch                = 3
      gui_refuse_filetransfer = 4
      invalid_type            = 5
      no_authority            = 6
      unknown_error           = 7
      bad_data_format         = 8
      header_not_allowed      = 9
      separator_not_allowed   = 10
      header_too_long         = 11
      unknown_dp_error        = 12
      access_denied           = 13
      dp_out_of_memory        = 14
      disk_full               = 15
      dp_timeout              = 16
      OTHERS                  = 17.
IF sy-subrc <> 0.
    MESSAGE ID sy-msgid TYPE sy-msgty NUMBER sy-msgno
            WITH sy-msgv1 sy-msgv2 sy-msgv3 sy-msgv4.
    EXIT.
ENDIF.
ENDFORM.                    " f1003_upload_file
*&      Form split_data
      Collect data for creating Purchase Order
FORM split_data .
DATA: i_poitem        TYPE STANDARD TABLE OF bapimepoitem,
        i_poitemx       TYPE STANDARD TABLE OF bapimepoitemx,
        i_poitem_sch    TYPE STANDARD TABLE OF bapimeposchedule,
        i_poitem_schx   TYPE STANDARD TABLE OF bapimeposchedulx,
        i_acct_***      TYPE STANDARD TABLE OF bapimepoaccount,
        i_acct_assx     TYPE STANDARD TABLE OF bapimepoaccountx,
        i_services      TYPE STANDARD TABLE OF bapiesllc ,
        i_srvacc        TYPE STANDARD TABLE OF bapiesklc,
        i_return        TYPE STANDARD TABLE OF bapiret2,
        wa_header       TYPE bapimepoheader,
        wa_headerx      TYPE bapimepoheaderx,
        wa_poitem       TYPE bapimepoitem,
        wa_poitemx      TYPE bapimepoitemx,
        wa_poitem_sch   TYPE bapimeposchedule,
        wa_poitem_schx TYPE bapimeposchedulx,
        wa_acct_***     TYPE bapimepoaccount,
        wa_acct_assx    TYPE bapimepoaccountx,
        wa_services     TYPE bapiesllc,
        wa_srvacc       TYPE bapiesklc,
        wa_return       TYPE bapiret2,
        ws_po           TYPE bapimepoheader-po_number.
break gbpra8.
wa_services-pckg_no = 10.
wa_services-line_no = 1.
wa_services-outl_no = '0'.
wa_services-outl_ind = c_x.
wa_services-subpckg_no = 20.
APPEND wa_services TO i_services.
wa_srvacc-pckg_no = 10.
wa_srvacc-line_no = 1.
wa_srvacc-serno_line = 01.
wa_srvacc-serial_no = 01.
wa_srvacc-percentage = 100.
APPEND wa_srvacc TO i_srvacc.
LOOP AT i_input_file INTO wa_input_file.
    IF wa_input_file-column2 EQ 'HD'.
      wa_header-doc_type = wa_input_file-column3.
      wa_header-creat_date = sy-datum.
      wa_header-created_by = sy-uname.
      wa_header-vendor = wa_input_file-column4.
      PERFORM conversion_output USING wa_header-vendor
                                CHANGING wa_header-vendor.
      wa_header-comp_code = 'DE03'.
      wa_header-purch_org = 'DE03'.
      wa_header-pur_group = 'DE1'.
      wa_header-vper_start = wa_input_file-column9.
      wa_header-vper_end = wa_input_file-column10.
      wa_headerx-comp_code = c_x.
      wa_headerx-doc_type = c_x.
      wa_headerx-creat_date = c_x.
      wa_headerx-created_by = c_x.
      wa_headerx-vendor = c_x.
      wa_headerx-purch_org = c_x.
      wa_headerx-pur_group = c_x.
      wa_headerx-vper_start = c_x.
      wa_headerx-vper_end = c_x.
    ENDIF.
    IF wa_input_file-column2 EQ 'IT'.
      wa_poitem-po_item = wa_input_file-column3.
      wa_poitem-short_text = wa_input_file-column6.
      wa_poitem-plant = wa_input_file-column8.
      wa_poitem-quantity = '1'.
      wa_poitem-tax_code = 'V0'.
      wa_poitem-item_cat = 'D'.
      wa_poitem-acctasscat = 'K'.
      wa_poitem-matl_group = wa_input_file-column7.
      wa_poitem-pckg_no = '10'.
      APPEND wa_poitem TO i_poitem .
      wa_poitemx-po_item = wa_input_file-column3.
      wa_poitemx-po_itemx = c_x.
      wa_poitemx-short_text = c_x.
      wa_poitemx-plant = c_x.
      wa_poitemx-quantity = c_x.
      wa_poitemx-tax_code = c_x.
      wa_poitemx-item_cat = c_x.
      wa_poitemx-acctasscat = c_x.
      wa_poitemx-matl_group = c_x.
      wa_poitemx-pckg_no = c_x.
      APPEND wa_poitemx TO i_poitemx.
      wa_poitem_sch-po_item = wa_input_file-column3.
      wa_poitem_sch-delivery_date = sy-datum.
      APPEND wa_poitem_sch TO i_poitem_sch.
      wa_poitem_schx-po_item = wa_input_file-column3.
      wa_poitem_schx-po_itemx = c_x.
      wa_poitem_schx-delivery_date = c_x.
      APPEND wa_poitem_schx TO i_poitem_schx.
      wa_acct_***-po_item = 10.
      wa_acct_***-serial_no = 01.
      wa_acct_***-gl_account = '0006360100'.
      wa_acct_***-co_area = '1000'.
      wa_acct_***-costcenter = 'KC010000'.
      APPEND wa_acct_*** TO i_acct_***.
      wa_acct_***-po_item = 10.
      wa_acct_***-serial_no = 02.
      wa_acct_***-gl_account = '0006360100'.
      wa_acct_***-co_area = '1000'.
      wa_acct_***-costcenter = 'KC010000'.
      APPEND wa_acct_*** TO i_acct_***.
      wa_acct_assx-po_item = 10.
      wa_acct_assx-serial_no = 01.
      wa_acct_assx-po_itemx = c_x.
      wa_acct_assx-serial_nox = c_x.
      wa_acct_assx-gl_account = c_x.
      wa_acct_assx-co_area = c_x.
      wa_acct_assx-costcenter = c_x.
      APPEND wa_acct_assx TO i_acct_assx.
      wa_acct_assx-po_item = 10.
      wa_acct_assx-serial_no = 02.
      wa_acct_assx-po_itemx = c_x.
      wa_acct_assx-serial_nox = c_x.
      wa_acct_assx-gl_account = c_x.
      wa_acct_assx-co_area = c_x.
      wa_acct_assx-costcenter = c_x.
      APPEND wa_acct_assx TO i_acct_assx.
      wa_services-pckg_no = 20.
      wa_services-line_no = 2.
      wa_services-service = wa_input_file-column9.
      wa_services-quantity = '100'.
      wa_services-gr_price = '100'.
      wa_services-userf1_txt = wa_input_file-column13.
      APPEND wa_services TO i_services.
      wa_srvacc-pckg_no = 20.
      wa_srvacc-line_no = 1.
      wa_srvacc-serno_line = 02.
      wa_srvacc-serial_no = 02.
      wa_srvacc-percentage = 100.
      APPEND wa_srvacc TO i_srvacc.
    ENDIF.
ENDLOOP.
CALL FUNCTION 'BAPI_PO_CREATE1'
    EXPORTING
      poheader                     = wa_header
      poheaderx                    = wa_headerx
POADDRVENDOR                 =
TESTRUN                      =
MEMORY_UNCOMPLETE            =
MEMORY_COMPLETE              =
POEXPIMPHEADER               =
POEXPIMPHEADERX              =
VERSIONS                     =
NO_MESSAGING                 =
NO_MESSAGE_REQ               =
NO_AUTHORITY                 =
NO_PRICE_FROM_PO             =
   IMPORTING
     exppurchaseorder             = ws_po
EXPHEADER                    =
EXPPOEXPIMPHEADER            =
   TABLES
     return                       = i_return
     poitem                       = i_poitem
     poitemx                      = i_poitemx
POADDRDELIVERY               =
     poschedule                   = i_poitem_sch
     poschedulex                  = i_poitem_schx
     poaccount                    = i_acct_***
POACCOUNTPROFITSEGMENT       =
     poaccountx                   = i_acct_assx
POCONDHEADER                 =
POCONDHEADERX                =
POCOND                       =
POCONDX                      =
POLIMITS                     =
POCONTRACTLIMITS             =
     poservices                   = i_services
     posrvaccessvalues            = i_srvacc
POSERVICESTEXT               =
EXTENSIONIN                  =
EXTENSIONOUT                 =
POEXPIMPITEM                 =
POEXPIMPITEMX                =
POTEXTHEADER                 =
POTEXTITEM                   =
ALLVERSIONS                  =
POPARTNER                    =
break gbpra8.
LOOP AT i_return INTO wa_return.
ENDLOOP.
ENDFORM.                    " split_data
*&      Form conversion_output
      Conversion exit input
FORM conversion_output USING    p_ip
                        CHANGING p_op.
CALL FUNCTION 'CONVERSION_EXIT_ALPHA_INPUT'
    EXPORTING
      input = p_ip
    IMPORTING
      output = p_op.
ENDFORM.                    " conversion_output
<b>Reward points if this helps.
Manish</b>

System identifica​tion for open loop unstable plant?

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System identification for open loop unstable plant?